JM2K6 wrote: Fri Jul 02, 2021 7:54 am
I see no less an authority than Stephen Ferris has said VDM is a defensive liability. Strong words coming from a Lions legend...
I liked Stephen Ferris as a player but a Lions legend he is not. He spent all of two weeks on tour.
It is an easy trope to follow. He isn't a natural defender by any means but he is hardly the liability he is made out to be.
I was being facetious! Ferris is a blowhard, always has been.
And on VDM he was zeroing in on the Japan game only, neatly sidestepping the 6N.
JM2K6 wrote: Fri Jul 02, 2021 7:54 am
I see no less an authority than Stephen Ferris has said VDM is a defensive liability. Strong words coming from a Lions legend...
I liked Stephen Ferris as a player but a Lions legend he is not. He spent all of two weeks on tour.
It is an easy trope to follow. He isn't a natural defender by any means but he is hardly the liability he is made out to be.
Van der Merwe made 13 tackles in the 6N and missed 3 (81%)
Rees-Zammit made 28 tackles and missed 9 (76%)
Liam Williams made 11 tackles and missed 4 (73%)
Watson made 15 tackles and missed 7 (68%)
Adams made 10 tackles and missed 6 (63%)
Daly made 5 tackles and missed 4 (56%)
Not only isn’t Van der Merwe a defensive liability, he is statistically the most reliable defensive winger on the tour, with not only the highest tackle completion rate, but also the fewest net tackles missed.
I think he's a very good player and deserves to be a Lion. However, I would add that sometimes he is not even in a position to attempt to make tackles, let alone fail to complete and consequently that won't appear as a stat.
Mind you, Daly's defence was atrocious in the 6Ns on the wing. Epically bad.
JM2K6 wrote: Fri Jul 02, 2021 7:54 am
I see no less an authority than Stephen Ferris has said VDM is a defensive liability. Strong words coming from a Lions legend...
I liked Stephen Ferris as a player but a Lions legend he is not. He spent all of two weeks on tour.
It is an easy trope to follow. He isn't a natural defender by any means but he is hardly the liability he is made out to be.
I was being facetious! Ferris is a blowhard, always has been.
And on VDM he was zeroing in on the Japan game only, neatly sidestepping the 6N.
I liked Stephen Ferris as a player but a Lions legend he is not. He spent all of two weeks on tour.
It is an easy trope to follow. He isn't a natural defender by any means but he is hardly the liability he is made out to be.
Van der Merwe made 13 tackles in the 6N and missed 3 (81%)
Rees-Zammit made 28 tackles and missed 9 (76%)
Liam Williams made 11 tackles and missed 4 (73%)
Watson made 15 tackles and missed 7 (68%)
Adams made 10 tackles and missed 6 (63%)
Daly made 5 tackles and missed 4 (56%)
Not only isn’t Van der Merwe a defensive liability, he is statistically the most reliable defensive winger on the tour, with not only the highest tackle completion rate, but also the fewest net tackles missed.
I think he's a very good player and deserves to be a Lion. However, I would add that sometimes he is not even in a position to attempt to make tackles, let alone fail to complete and consequently that won't appear as a stat.
Mind you, Daly's defence was atrocious in the 6Ns on the wing. Epically bad.
Also have to take into account defensive scheme - Scotland have been playing a pretty narrow scheme where the wingers have to tuck in fairly tight. There isn't just one correct position for a winger to be in regardless of scheme.
I liked Stephen Ferris as a player but a Lions legend he is not. He spent all of two weeks on tour.
It is an easy trope to follow. He isn't a natural defender by any means but he is hardly the liability he is made out to be.
Van der Merwe made 13 tackles in the 6N and missed 3 (81%)
Rees-Zammit made 28 tackles and missed 9 (76%)
Liam Williams made 11 tackles and missed 4 (73%)
Watson made 15 tackles and missed 7 (68%)
Adams made 10 tackles and missed 6 (63%)
Daly made 5 tackles and missed 4 (56%)
Not only isn’t Van der Merwe a defensive liability, he is statistically the most reliable defensive winger on the tour, with not only the highest tackle completion rate, but also the fewest net tackles missed.
I think he's a very good player and deserves to be a Lion. However, I would add that sometimes he is not even in a position to attempt to make tackles, let alone fail to complete and consequently that won't appear as a stat.
Mind you, Daly's defence was atrocious in the 6Ns on the wing. Epically bad.
Yeah, fair enough. If he’s completely out of position then it won’t show in the stats. If that happened on a regular basis it would be pretty obvious, though. VdM attempted roughly the same number of tackles as the other wingers on the tour, with the exception of LRZ, who for some reason attempted nearly twice as many as the others.
It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.
I think he's a very good player and deserves to be a Lion. However, I would add that sometimes he is not even in a position to attempt to make tackles, let alone fail to complete and consequently that won't appear as a stat.
Mind you, Daly's defence was atrocious in the 6Ns on the wing. Epically bad.
Yeah, fair enough. If he’s completely out of position then it won’t show in the stats. If that happened on a regular basis it would be pretty obvious, though. VdM attempted roughly the same number of tackles as the other wingers on the tour, with the exception of LRZ, who for some reason attempted nearly twice as many as the others.
Well uh yes, that's kind of why people are raising concerns about his defence, that is what they see. You might not see it because you have a vested interest in not wanting to see it - you're a fan.
I think he's a very good player and deserves to be a Lion. However, I would add that sometimes he is not even in a position to attempt to make tackles, let alone fail to complete and consequently that won't appear as a stat.
Mind you, Daly's defence was atrocious in the 6Ns on the wing. Epically bad.
Yeah, fair enough. If he’s completely out of position then it won’t show in the stats. If that happened on a regular basis it would be pretty obvious, though. VdM attempted roughly the same number of tackles as the other wingers on the tour, with the exception of LRZ, who for some reason attempted nearly twice as many as the others.
Well uh yes, that's kind of why people are raising concerns about his defence, that is what they see. You might not see it because you have a vested interest in not wanting to see it - you're a fan.
Was mentioned Several times in commentary how often he was dragged out of position against Japan
Yeah, fair enough. If he’s completely out of position then it won’t show in the stats. If that happened on a regular basis it would be pretty obvious, though. VdM attempted roughly the same number of tackles as the other wingers on the tour, with the exception of LRZ, who for some reason attempted nearly twice as many as the others.
Well uh yes, that's kind of why people are raising concerns about his defence, that is what they see. You might not see it because you have a vested interest in not wanting to see it - you're a fan.
Was mentioned Several times in commentary how often he was dragged out of position against Japan
Hal Jordan wrote: Sat Jul 03, 2021 8:31 am
Just realised the match kicks off at 5. With two kids that riot if dinner isn't ready by about 5.30, I fucking hate late afternoon matches.
Yep. Hate 5pm kick offs for that reason.
Either I miss them or it takes a bit of smoothing over with the Mrs.
Hal Jordan wrote: Sat Jul 03, 2021 8:31 am
Just realised the match kicks off at 5. With two kids that riot if dinner isn't ready by about 5.30, I fucking hate late afternoon matches.
Yep. Hate 5pm kick offs for that reason.
Either I miss them or it takes a bit of smoothing over with the Mrs.
Doubly difficult because I enjoy cooking the weekend meals.
England 6N has been negotiated as the concession in our house, but a warm up Lions match? Pffft.
Hal Jordan wrote: Sat Jul 03, 2021 8:31 am
Just realised the match kicks off at 5. With two kids that riot if dinner isn't ready by about 5.30, I fucking hate late afternoon matches.
Yep. Hate 5pm kick offs for that reason.
Either I miss them or it takes a bit of smoothing over with the Mrs.
Doubly difficult because I enjoy cooking the weekend meals.
Hal Jordan wrote: Sat Jul 03, 2021 8:31 am
Just realised the match kicks off at 5. With two kids that riot if dinner isn't ready by about 5.30, I fucking hate late afternoon matches.
Yep. Hate 5pm kick offs for that reason.
Either I miss them or it takes a bit of smoothing over with the Mrs.
Same. But I’ve driven 7 hours today so sitting with a beer while all hell is let lose in the kitchen from the knackered children
All the money you made will never buy back your soul
dkm57 wrote: Sat Jul 03, 2021 4:35 pm
Why TF is Hill in on this tour
Thought he had a pretty good game yesterday as did Itoje and Lawes.
I thought bar one pick up and offload he was poor. Missed tackles, gave away cheap penalties and made silly mistakes.
Thought Itoje and Lawes were good. Although still not sure Lawes is a test match 6.
He's too slow. If you have him you need everyone being even more vigilant about getting to rucks and you really don't want him to have to get off the side of a scrum to shut something down. Lock or bench at the top level for me.
dkm57 wrote: Sat Jul 03, 2021 4:35 pm
Why TF is Hill in on this tour
Thought he had a pretty good game yesterday as did Itoje and Lawes.
Yeah he was solid, without being spectacular. Gatland singled him out in post-match comments during his Sky interview, so Hill clearly did what he was tasked with.
dkm57 wrote: Sat Jul 03, 2021 4:35 pm
Why TF is Hill in on this tour
Thought he had a pretty good game yesterday as did Itoje and Lawes.
Yeah he was solid, without being spectacular. Gatland singled him out in post-match comments during his Sky interview, so Hill clearly did what he was tasked with.
Yep had a good steady game not sure he has gone ahead of Henderson mind. Lot of hate for him from our friends north of the border even though Jonny Gray was obviously not even in the frame to tour in the end.
Will be interesting to see how Beard fares in the next match. Very close call as to who will play alongside Itoje in the tests.
JM2K6 wrote: Sun Jul 04, 2021 11:54 am
Hill was a fucking liability again, gave away three penalties and could easily have coughed up two more if they'd been spotted
JM2K6 wrote: Sun Jul 04, 2021 11:54 am
Hill was a fucking liability again, gave away three penalties and could easily have coughed up two more if they'd been spotted
This.
For everything Hill does good he fecks it up by doing something stupid, usually giving away a brainless, unnecessary penalty. He might be there for his size and aggression but that's not enough at this level. I can't see him making the Test team.
JM2K6 wrote: Sun Jul 04, 2021 11:54 am
Hill was a fucking liability again, gave away three penalties and could easily have coughed up two more if they'd been spotted
Agreed I was mystified he made the England team let alone the Lions. Johnny Grey et al are all better...
SaintK wrote: Sun Jul 04, 2021 10:59 am
Thought he had a pretty good game yesterday as did Itoje and Lawes.
Yeah he was solid, without being spectacular. Gatland singled him out in post-match comments during his Sky interview, so Hill clearly did what he was tasked with.
Yep had a good steady game not sure he has gone ahead of Henderson mind. Lot of hate for him from our friends north of the border even though Jonny Gray was obviously not even in the frame to tour in the end.
Will be interesting to see how Beard fares in the next match. Very close call as to who will play alongside Itoje in the tests.
It isn't hate to point out he gave away stupid penalties amd missed tackles. As the Lions know in SA daft penalties can end series. At any rate, a lot of the criticism is from his countrymen.
Based on what we've seen so far Itoje, Bierne and Lawes should cover second row and 6 in some order. But it is early yet.
SaintK wrote: Sun Jul 04, 2021 10:59 am
Thought he had a pretty good game yesterday as did Itoje and Lawes.
Yeah he was solid, without being spectacular. Gatland singled him out in post-match comments during his Sky interview, so Hill clearly did what he was tasked with.
Yep had a good steady game not sure he has gone ahead of Henderson mind. Lot of hate for him from our friends north of the border even though Jonny Gray was obviously not even in the frame to tour in the end.
Will be interesting to see how Beard fares in the next match. Very close call as to who will play alongside Itoje in the tests.
Given Beard was called up ahead of him, obviously Gray wasn’t even on the long list, but perhaps you can forgive us for wondering why not? What aspect of his game goes against him? The only complaint Scotland fans tend to have against him is that he could show a bit more dog, but that’s arguably less important on a Lions tour, where the team are less likely to be on the back foot and there will be plenty of others available to fulfil that role.
It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.
Yeah he was solid, without being spectacular. Gatland singled him out in post-match comments during his Sky interview, so Hill clearly did what he was tasked with.
Yep had a good steady game not sure he has gone ahead of Henderson mind. Lot of hate for him from our friends north of the border even though Jonny Gray was obviously not even in the frame to tour in the end.
Will be interesting to see how Beard fares in the next match. Very close call as to who will play alongside Itoje in the tests.
Given Beard was called up ahead of him, obviously Gray wasn’t even on the long list, but perhaps you can forgive us for wondering why not? What aspect of his game goes against him? The only complaint Scotland fans tend to have against him is that he could show a bit more dog, but that’s arguably less important on a Lions tour, where the team are less likely to be on the back foot and there will be plenty of others available to fulfil that role.
Rumours that Gray needs surgery this summer. Long-standing knee problem.
