NPR

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 8:53 am

Openside wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 12:26 am

C69 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 9:03 pm
What bullshit, you have just made that shit up to support your own bigoted and reactionary narrow viewpoint.
There is no evidence whatsoever that your opinion has any validity at all.

you are clueless if you don’t think remainers have been sneering at Brexiteers for the last 4 years.

So now we're on to "attitudes to people after the vote are the reason the vote went the way it did"?

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 9:51 am I understand but am contending that the group which decided the referendum had no expectations post Brexit: they voted to give the Govt a bloody nose.

Rinkals wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 10:10 am

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 9:51 am I understand but am contending that the group which decided the referendum had no expectations post Brexit: they voted to give the Govt a bloody nose.

And, in doing so, they've cut their own noses off.

Openside wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 9:54 am

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 8:53 am

Openside wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 12:26 am

you are clueless if you don’t think remainers have been sneering at Brexiteers for the last 4 years.

So now we're on to "attitudes to people after the vote are the reason the vote went the way it did"?

You really are a massive bellend that isn’t what I have said at all (and you know it) the sneering is further evidence of the prevailing attitude towards anyone who thought the UK’s future was better outside Europe both before and after the vote. This whole branch was begun by a very ‘remainder elite’ style comment. Let them get back to Scaffolding. It’s Maurice Antoine-esque

It is the sneering superiority that led to the working class to support Brexit.

you are clueless if you don’t think remainers have been sneering at Brexiteers for the last 4 years.

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 10:15 am

Rinkals wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 10:10 am

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 9:51 am I understand but am contending that the group which decided the referendum had no expectations post Brexit: they voted to give the Govt a bloody nose.

And, in doing so, they've cut their own noses off.

That may well transpire to be true but alters nothing in regards my contention that the outcome was a result of Govt arrogance coupled with incompetence.

Prisons minister Lucy Frazer appeared on Woman’s Hour this week to explain how the government is trying to reduce the number of women in the country’s prisons.
To do this, she is... building 500 new prison cells.
We can’t quite work out the logic of this, and neither could Woman’s Hour host Emma Barnett.

SaintK wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 10:58 am Another thicko promoted way above her abilities. I bet the conversations between her and Patel make your ears bleed!!!

Prisons minister Lucy Frazer appeared on Woman’s Hour this week to explain how the government is trying to reduce the number of women in the country’s prisons.
To do this, she is... building 500 new prison cells.
We can’t quite work out the logic of this, and neither could Woman’s Hour host Emma Barnett.

[media] [/media]

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 9:41 am

Woddy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 9:26 am It was widely posited immediately after the referendum result, and has been ever since, that a significant factor in the Brexit vote was as a protest by those who felt disenfranchised and forgotten, as part of a general slap in the face of the establishment (whether in government, the media or metropolitan society) who no longer listened to their complaints and concerns. Comparisons were and still are made with an apparently similar movement in the States in the Fly-Over states, etc.

Whether you agree with that or not, it was and is definitely commented on. I think it covers the sneering that OS refers to.

And yet, whenever people were asked for the reasons they voted for Brexit...

Openside wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 9:54 am

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 8:53 am

Openside wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 12:26 am

you are clueless if you don’t think remainers have been sneering at Brexiteers for the last 4 years.

So now we're on to "attitudes to people after the vote are the reason the vote went the way it did"?

You really are a massive bellend that isn’t what I have said at all (and you know it) the sneering is further evidence of the prevailing attitude towards anyone who thought the UK’s future was better outside Europe both before and after the vote. This whole branch was begun by a very ‘remainder elite’ style comment. Let them get back to Scaffolding. It’s Maurice Antoine-esque

ASMO wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 11:49 am I suspect you would find a great many more who voted leave originally who would now vote to remain than the other way around.

Happyhooker wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 11:56 am Pardon me for butting in, but I can't help noticing that nobody has picked up on the (new to me anyway) historical figure that openside brought up.

Maurice Antoine? And what's the three time governor of french indochina in the 1920s got to do with this?

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 11:58 am

Happyhooker wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 11:56 am Pardon me for butting in, but I can't help noticing that nobody has picked up on the (new to me anyway) historical figure that openside brought up.

Maurice Antoine? And what's the three time governor of french indochina in the 1920s got to do with this?

Tell me you didn't have to google that.

Woddy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 11:46 am

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 9:41 am

Woddy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 9:26 am It was widely posited immediately after the referendum result, and has been ever since, that a significant factor in the Brexit vote was as a protest by those who felt disenfranchised and forgotten, as part of a general slap in the face of the establishment (whether in government, the media or metropolitan society) who no longer listened to their complaints and concerns. Comparisons were and still are made with an apparently similar movement in the States in the Fly-Over states, etc.

Whether you agree with that or not, it was and is definitely commented on. I think it covers the sneering that OS refers to.

And yet, whenever people were asked for the reasons they voted for Brexit...

Some said they did so, at least in part, as a warning to the Government and general establishment. That includes many who thought it would be no more than that as they expected the result to be in favour of Remain. Anyway, I suspect most voted for a clutch of reasons, of which the anti-establishment FU was just one. Torq has expressed the same point well.

As an aside, the supposed sneering from the Remain side is often cited as to why the Leave result was such a shock: many people did not feel their real views were or are welcome in everyday conversations. Of course, that completes the vicious circle for those who feel they are forgotten, left behind or whatever.

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 11:57 am

ASMO wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 11:49 am I suspect you would find a great many more who voted leave originally who would now vote to remain than the other way around.

I'm not sure what relevance that has? Any vote is based upon the best information available at the time. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that in a decade's time (say), Britain has found a new
path that the majority finds satisfactory and the reverse of what you highlight is so.

In any vote to change something that results in major upheaval, you'll find it is human nature for there to be more immediate "regretters" than those who are sure the course is sound. We are creatures of habit and that's intensified in a nanny state world and a world where Govt (+media) has systematically ramped the fear in its populace for political ends.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 12:04 pm

Woddy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 11:46 am

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 9:41 am

And yet, whenever people were asked for the reasons they voted for Brexit...

Some said they did so, at least in part, as a warning to the Government and general establishment. That includes many who thought it would be no more than that as they expected the result to be in favour of Remain. Anyway, I suspect most voted for a clutch of reasons, of which the anti-establishment FU was just one. Torq has expressed the same point well.

As an aside, the supposed sneering from the Remain side is often cited as to why the Leave result was such a shock: many people did not feel their real views were or are welcome in everyday conversations. Of course, that completes the vicious circle for those who feel they are forgotten, left behind or whatever.

It was overwhelmingly "sovereignty" and "immigration" that came up time and again in research as to why Brexteers voted that way. Just because Farage - a member of the elite - cast it as an anti-elite sentiment after the fact, that doesn't mean it's a big part of why the vote went the way it did.

I'm not saying no-one voted in protest against the Govt or whatever. I'm saying it's not even close to being among the main reasons people voted for Brexit. And the data says the same. Openside/Farage's hot takes aren't based in anything factual.

SaintK wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 10:58 am Another thicko promoted way above her abilities. I bet the conversations between her and Patel make your ears bleed!!!

Prisons minister Lucy Frazer appeared on Woman’s Hour this week to explain how the government is trying to reduce the number of women in the country’s prisons.
To do this, she is... building 500 new prison cells.
We can’t quite work out the logic of this, and neither could Woman’s Hour host Emma Barnett.

[media] [/media]

Woddy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 12:15 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 12:04 pm

Woddy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 11:46 am

Some said they did so, at least in part, as a warning to the Government and general establishment. That includes many who thought it would be no more than that as they expected the result to be in favour of Remain. Anyway, I suspect most voted for a clutch of reasons, of which the anti-establishment FU was just one. Torq has expressed the same point well.

As an aside, the supposed sneering from the Remain side is often cited as to why the Leave result was such a shock: many people did not feel their real views were or are welcome in everyday conversations. Of course, that completes the vicious circle for those who feel they are forgotten, left behind or whatever.

It was overwhelmingly "sovereignty" and "immigration" that came up time and again in research as to why Brexteers voted that way. Just because Farage - a member of the elite - cast it as an anti-elite sentiment after the fact, that doesn't mean it's a big part of why the vote went the way it did.

I'm not saying no-one voted in protest against the Govt or whatever. I'm saying it's not even close to being among the main reasons people voted for Brexit. And the data says the same. Openside/Farage's hot takes aren't based in anything factual.

The various factors that made people decide one way or t'other were (for many) not mutually exclusive. People could have particular concerns about immigration (say) while recognising that Leave would damage the wider economy so be on the fence; sticking it to The Man might have been the extra incentive to make them vote Leave rather than Remain (or abstain). Anyway, it's not your view or mine that is the point, but what commentators perceived at the time and have since, rightly or wrongly.

SaintK wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 10:58 am Another thicko promoted way above her abilities. I bet the conversations between her and Patel make your ears bleed!!!

Prisons minister Lucy Frazer appeared on Woman’s Hour this week to explain how the government is trying to reduce the number of women in the country’s prisons.
To do this, she is... building 500 new prison cells.
We can’t quite work out the logic of this, and neither could Woman’s Hour host Emma Barnett.

Openside wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 12:26 am

C69 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 9:03 pm

Openside wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:17 am

It’s the assumption that ‘these people’ are simpletons obviously furloughed as they don’t have proper jobs and work on building sites. It is the sneering superiority that led to the working class to support Brexit.

What bullshit, you have just made that shit up to support your own bigoted and reactionary narrow viewpoint.
There is no evidence whatsoever that your opinion has any validity at all.

you are clueless if you don’t think remainers have been sneering at Brexiteers for the last 4 years.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 10:22 am

Openside wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 9:54 am

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 8:53 am

So now we're on to "attitudes to people after the vote are the reason the vote went the way it did"?

You really are a massive bellend that isn’t what I have said at all (and you know it) the sneering is further evidence of the prevailing attitude towards anyone who thought the UK’s future was better outside Europe both before and after the vote. This whole branch was begun by a very ‘remainder elite’ style comment. Let them get back to Scaffolding. It’s Maurice Antoine-esque

This you?

It is the sneering superiority that led to the working class to support Brexit.

(next post)

you are clueless if you don’t think remainers have been sneering at Brexiteers for the last 4 years.

You moved the goalposts immediately and then call ME a bellend because you get called out on it? Fuck off, maybe read the nonsense you post first if you don't want people to point out how illogical it is.

ASMO wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 11:49 am I suspect you would find a great many more who voted leave originally who would now vote to remain than the other way around.

C69 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 12:51 pm

Openside wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 12:26 am

C69 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 9:03 pm
What bullshit, you have just made that shit up to support your own bigoted and reactionary narrow viewpoint.
There is no evidence whatsoever that your opinion has any validity at all.

you are clueless if you don’t think remainers have been sneering at Brexiteers for the last 4 years.

Sorry but what a croc of shit,as has been pointed out to you again and again on this thread.
Made up bollocks you can't corroborate and as usual you made it up to support your argument based upon your narrow privileged prism.
Farage and others have sneered at Remainers, Others have sneered at Brexit supporters.
But your assertions that working class people who may be furloughed voted for Brexit because they were seen as simpletons rallying against sneering superiority is crass and quite a reactionary viewpoint.
A very paternalistic Officer class viewpoint imho. A complete fantasy that exists in your head only.
Not bourne out of any evidence whatsoever.

Happyhooker wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 11:56 am

Openside wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 9:54 am

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 8:53 am

So now we're on to "attitudes to people after the vote are the reason the vote went the way it did"?

You really are a massive bellend that isn’t what I have said at all (and you know it) the sneering is further evidence of the prevailing attitude towards anyone who thought the UK’s future was better outside Europe both before and after the vote. This whole branch was begun by a very ‘remainder elite’ style comment. Let them get back to Scaffolding. It’s Maurice Antoine-esque

Pardon me for butting in, but I can't help noticing that nobody has picked up on the (new to me anyway) historical figure that openside brought up.

Maurice Antoine? And what's the three time governor of french indochina in the 1920s got to do with this?

Openside wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 1:54 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 10:22 am

Openside wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 9:54 am

You really are a massive bellend that isn’t what I have said at all (and you know it) the sneering is further evidence of the prevailing attitude towards anyone who thought the UK’s future was better outside Europe both before and after the vote. This whole branch was begun by a very ‘remainder elite’ style comment. Let them get back to Scaffolding. It’s Maurice Antoine-esque

This you?

It is the sneering superiority that led to the working class to support Brexit.

(next post)

you are clueless if you don’t think remainers have been sneering at Brexiteers for the last 4 years.

You moved the goalposts immediately and then call ME a bellend because you get called out on it? Fuck off, maybe read the nonsense you post first if you don't want people to point out how illogical it is.

Fuck off yourself you haven't called anyone on anything. That attitude was there before the vote and after, it was just easier to see from whom it was coming once all the arseholes had put FBPE in their twitter bios.

Openside wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 2:01 pm

Happyhooker wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 11:56 am

Openside wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 9:54 am

You really are a massive bellend that isn’t what I have said at all (and you know it) the sneering is further evidence of the prevailing attitude towards anyone who thought the UK’s future was better outside Europe both before and after the vote. This whole branch was begun by a very ‘remainder elite’ style comment. Let them get back to Scaffolding. It’s Maurice Antoine-esque

Pardon me for butting in, but I can't help noticing that nobody has picked up on the (new to me anyway) historical figure that openside brought up.

Maurice Antoine? And what's the three time governor of french indochina in the 1920s got to do with this?

any fule kno that Maurice was her younger brother and quite the baker hence her famous comment

ASMO wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 12:11 pm

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 11:57 am

ASMO wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 11:49 am I suspect you would find a great many more who voted leave originally who would now vote to remain than the other way around.

I'm not sure what relevance that has? Any vote is based upon the best information available at the time. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that in a decade's time (say), Britain has found a new
path that the majority finds satisfactory and the reverse of what you highlight is so.

In any vote to change something that results in major upheaval, you'll find it is human nature for there to be more immediate "regretters" than those who are sure the course is sound. We are creatures of habit and that's intensified in a nanny state world and a world where Govt (+media) has systematically ramped the fear in its populace for political ends.

Simply not true, it is based on whatever propoganda machine is better, there were little or no "facts" used to make a case for either camp and most of those "facts" have been proved to at best misleading, at worst, downright lies.

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 5:11 pm

ASMO wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 12:11 pm

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 11:57 am
I'm not sure what relevance that has? Any vote is based upon the best information available at the time. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that in a decade's time (say), Britain has found a new
path that the majority finds satisfactory and the reverse of what you highlight is so.

In any vote to change something that results in major upheaval, you'll find it is human nature for there to be more immediate "regretters" than those who are sure the course is sound. We are creatures of habit and that's intensified in a nanny state world and a world where Govt (+media) has systematically ramped the fear in its populace for political ends.

Simply not true, it is based on whatever propoganda machine is better, there were little or no "facts" used to make a case for either camp and most of those "facts" have been proved to at best misleading, at worst, downright lies.

By definition, that is the best available. I didn't say there wasn't better to be had. But that's the nature of people and what politicians exploit: fear, apathy, bias, self interest. In truth, I think if you presented the the entire truth in depth, most people would be too stupid to grasp it anyway. If you and I know it was lies, why didn't everyone else?

If we behaved on the best information, there would be no religion. Flawed people = flawed politics.

You get the government you deserve [/Joseph de Maistre ]
The masses are incapable of making rational decisions (for themselves) [/A Hitler]

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 5:16 pm

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 5:11 pm

ASMO wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 12:11 pm

Simply not true, it is based on whatever propoganda machine is better, there were little or no "facts" used to make a case for either camp and most of those "facts" have been proved to at best misleading, at worst, downright lies.

By definition, that is the best available. I didn't say there wasn't better to be had. But that's the nature of people and what politicians exploit: fear, apathy, bias, self interest. In truth, I think if you presented the the entire truth in depth, most people would be too stupid to grasp it anyway. If you and I know it was lies, why didn't everyone else?

If we behaved on the best information, there would be no religion. Flawed people = flawed politics.

You get the government you deserve [/Joseph de Maistre ]
The masses are incapable of making rational decisions (for themselves) [/A Hitler]

ASMO wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 12:11 pm

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 11:57 am

ASMO wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 11:49 am I suspect you would find a great many more who voted leave originally who would now vote to remain than the other way around.

I'm not sure what relevance that has? Any vote is based upon the best information available at the time. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that in a decade's time (say), Britain has found a new
path that the majority finds satisfactory and the reverse of what you highlight is so.

In any vote to change something that results in major upheaval, you'll find it is human nature for there to be more immediate "regretters" than those who are sure the course is sound. We are creatures of habit and that's intensified in a nanny state world and a world where Govt (+media) has systematically ramped the fear in its populace for political ends.

Simply not true, it is based on whatever propoganda machine is better, there were little or no "facts" used to make a case for either camp and most of those "facts" have been proved to at best misleading, at worst, downright lies.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:26 pm

Openside wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 1:54 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 10:22 am

This you?



(next post)



You moved the goalposts immediately and then call ME a bellend because you get called out on it? Fuck off, maybe read the nonsense you post first if you don't want people to point out how illogical it is.

Fuck off yourself you haven't called anyone on anything. That attitude was there before the vote and after, it was just easier to see from whom it was coming once all the arseholes had put FBPE in their twitter bios.

How thick do you have to be to not realise that "sneering at" (i.e. criticising) people who voted for Brexit comes from, y'know, them voting for Brexit (often for racist reasons, and in many cases voting for their own downfall)? It's a completely different scenario; pretending that has anything to do with the Brexit vote to begin with is just incredibly stupid. Unless you have a fucking time machine, logic does not work that way.

You've got nothing to go on here - no fact, no data, no logic. Just your hard-worn belief that it was Remoaners Wot Lost It because they were too busy sneering from their ivory towers, regardless of what the facts actually are.

ASMO wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 12:11 pm

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 11:57 am

ASMO wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 11:49 am I suspect you would find a great many more who voted leave originally who would now vote to remain than the other way around.

I'm not sure what relevance that has? Any vote is based upon the best information available at the time. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that in a decade's time (say), Britain has found a new
path that the majority finds satisfactory and the reverse of what you highlight is so.

In any vote to change something that results in major upheaval, you'll find it is human nature for there to be more immediate "regretters" than those who are sure the course is sound. We are creatures of habit and that's intensified in a nanny state world and a world where Govt (+media) has systematically ramped the fear in its populace for political ends.

Simply not true, it is based on whatever propoganda machine is better, there were little or no "facts" used to make a case for either camp and most of those "facts" have been proved to at best misleading, at worst, downright lies.

Openside wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 11:39 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:26 pm

Openside wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 1:54 pm

Fuck off yourself you haven't called anyone on anything. That attitude was there before the vote and after, it was just easier to see from whom it was coming once all the arseholes had put FBPE in their twitter bios.

How thick do you have to be to not realise that "sneering at" (i.e. criticising) people who voted for Brexit comes from, y'know, them voting for Brexit (often for racist reasons, and in many cases voting for their own downfall)? It's a completely different scenario; pretending that has anything to do with the Brexit vote to begin with is just incredibly stupid. Unless you have a fucking time machine, logic does not work that way.

You've got nothing to go on here - no fact, no data, no logic. Just your hard-worn belief that it was Remoaners Wot Lost It because they were too busy sneering from their ivory towers, regardless of what the facts actually are.

QE fucking D

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 11:54 pm

Openside wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 11:39 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 3:26 pm

How thick do you have to be to not realise that "sneering at" (i.e. criticising) people who voted for Brexit comes from, y'know, them voting for Brexit (often for racist reasons, and in many cases voting for their own downfall)? It's a completely different scenario; pretending that has anything to do with the Brexit vote to begin with is just incredibly stupid. Unless you have a fucking time machine, logic does not work that way.

You've got nothing to go on here - no fact, no data, no logic. Just your hard-worn belief that it was Remoaners Wot Lost It because they were too busy sneering from their ivory towers, regardless of what the facts actually are.

QE fucking D

Criticising people for their actions does not retrospectively cause those actions, you dimwit.

Are we pretending that Farage and his "hordes of immigrants" propaganda didn't have a huge part to play? Or the demonisation of the EU & immigration over the last 30 years by the right-wing press? The pandering to such by the government?

Are we also pretending that the "economically anxious" groups who voted for Brexit have - either deliberately or unknowingly - voted to make their economic situations worse? Have you been paying attention to, ooh, I dunno, the fishing communities at all?

QE fucking D indeed.

Openside wrote: ↑Sat Feb 06, 2021 12:55 am

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 11:54 pm

Openside wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 11:39 pm

QE fucking D

Criticising people for their actions does not retrospectively cause those actions, you dimwit.

Are we pretending that Farage and his "hordes of immigrants" propaganda didn't have a huge part to play? Or the demonisation of the EU & immigration over the last 30 years by the right-wing press? The pandering to such by the government?

Are we also pretending that the "economically anxious" groups who voted for Brexit have - either deliberately or unknowingly - voted to make their economic situations worse? Have you been paying attention to, ooh, I dunno, the fishing communities at all?

QE fucking D indeed.

You really are desperately insecure.

Ministers ignored legal advice to give failing company a huge Covid test contract leaving taxpayers with £87MILLION bill when tests didn't work

Now, the Daily Mail can reveal, leaked government documents show critical decisions were rushed through by a group of ministers and advisers. Right from the outset, senior civil servants raised red flags.

Twice, the documents reveal, the Government was warned by its own lawyers that the deals it signed with Abingdon Health – £2.5million for development, £10million for components and up to £75million for supply – were at 'high risk' of being ruled unlawful if challenged. The advice appears to have been ignored.

Insane_Homer wrote: ↑Sat Feb 06, 2021 7:46 am https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... el-it.html

Ministers ignored legal advice to give failing company a huge Covid test contract leaving taxpayers with £87MILLION bill when tests didn't work

Now, the Daily Mail can reveal, leaked government documents show critical decisions were rushed through by a group of ministers and advisers. Right from the outset, senior civil servants raised red flags.

Twice, the documents reveal, the Government was warned by its own lawyers that the deals it signed with Abingdon Health – £2.5million for development, £10million for components and up to £75million for supply – were at 'high risk' of being ruled unlawful if challenged. The advice appears to have been ignored.

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Sat Feb 06, 2021 8:59 am

Insane_Homer wrote: ↑Sat Feb 06, 2021 7:46 am https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... el-it.html

Ministers ignored legal advice to give failing company a huge Covid test contract leaving taxpayers with £87MILLION bill when tests didn't work

Now, the Daily Mail can reveal, leaked government documents show critical decisions were rushed through by a group of ministers and advisers. Right from the outset, senior civil servants raised red flags.

Twice, the documents reveal, the Government was warned by its own lawyers that the deals it signed with Abingdon Health – £2.5million for development, £10million for components and up to £75million for supply – were at 'high risk' of being ruled unlawful if challenged. The advice appears to have been ignored.

Meh, just ignore the invoices.

ASMO wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:34 pm "If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. "

Josef Goebels

More appropriate when it comes to Brexit and the Tories

Rinkals wrote: ↑Sat Feb 06, 2021 4:36 am

Openside wrote: ↑Sat Feb 06, 2021 12:55 am

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 05, 2021 11:54 pm

Criticising people for their actions does not retrospectively cause those actions, you dimwit.

Are we pretending that Farage and his "hordes of immigrants" propaganda didn't have a huge part to play? Or the demonisation of the EU & immigration over the last 30 years by the right-wing press? The pandering to such by the government?

Are we also pretending that the "economically anxious" groups who voted for Brexit have - either deliberately or unknowingly - voted to make their economic situations worse? Have you been paying attention to, ooh, I dunno, the fishing communities at all?

QE fucking D indeed.

You really are desperately insecure.

He's the only one in this dialogue posting sense.