NPR

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 10:53 am

salanya wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 10:50 am How is he able to appoint new cabinet members when he's resigning?

And which total arsewipe agrees to these positions when they're waiting for him to resign?

The Tories are determined to make themselves look as delusional, corrupt and ridiculous as they possibly can.

He's not really resigning. He's buying himself three months for something to come up and to tear his opponents apart.

redderneck wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 10:23 am Has to be said. When you Brits do a setpiece, you don't half put on a show. It's got to be hard to turn a meltdown into a codified spectator sport, but you've cracked it. Kudos.

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 10:19 am FFS, the problem is yes he was a disaster but only because he was an eco-warrior and not right wing enough...

Paywalled article C&P'd for convenience
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/0 ... oris-2019/

His premiership is ending in disaster, but I don’t regret backing Boris in 2019
Allister Heath 6 July 2022 • 9:30pm — 4 minutes

Is this the time for a mea culpa, or as our outgoing Prime Minister might have once put it, even a mea maxima culpa, for supporting Boris Johnson three years ago? The answer, dear readers, is an emphatic “No”, and not only because I’m not a Roman Catholic. His subsequent performance has been atrocious, delusional and indefensible, but Johnson was the right and only person for the job in 2019, a time when, some have conveniently forgotten, Britain was falling apart.

Within months of becoming leader of the Conservative Party, he had rescued the country from a debilitating constitutional crisis after a series of audacious gambles, delivered a meaningful Brexit and thus salvaged the greatest democratic exercise in our history, saved and united a Conservative Party that had fallen to 9 per cent in an election, destroyed the most Left-wing, fanatically dangerous leader in Labour’s history and repelled the threat of anti-Semitism. It was an astonishing turnaround job, confounding his Tory sceptics in the most vivid way imaginable.

For all these historic achievements, and despite his subsequent, calamitous failures, he shall be remembered as one of this country’s most consequential prime ministers. This is why the 160 MPs who supported him in June 2019, fully aware of his imperfections, should feel no regret for their decision, and neither should the 13.9 million people who voted Conservative on that glorious December day. He delivered on his core, short-term mission, against all the odds: backing him was the right thing to do at the time, even if it isn’t true any longer today.

Johnson’s tragedy is that he outlived his usefulness so quickly and turned from exceptional asset to prohibitively costly liability in record time, which is why so many erstwhile Johnson loyalists and voters turned on him decisively. He misunderstood his early luck and success, and refused to build a proper structure around himself, rather than a dysfunctional court made up of warring factions.

His staggering lack of self-awareness extended to the moral realm: he didn’t seem to grasp that voters are allergic to double-standards, hypocrisy and downright lies. His lack of a guiding ideology, other than personal ambition and self-interest, meant that he failed to understand why so many of his supporters feel ideologically betrayed by his high-tax, high-spend agenda.

It became apparent well over a year ago that there would be no lengthy Johnsonian era, as I fleetingly thought might have been possible in the immediate aftermath of the election, no new economic and social model named after him, no great project to remodel Britain a la Thatcher. It is a bitter disappointment, a catastrophic waste of an 80-seat majority, a seismic defeat for the forces of conservatism in an increasingly Left-wing culture, the ultimate proof of the futility of purposeless ambition, of the idea that charisma, slipperiness and off-the-cuff verbal dexterity beats principle, thoughtfulness, organisation, reliability, focus and managerial ability.

Johnson’s performance went downhill almost immediately after the General Election, with his decision to approve HS2 the first of many errors. His greatest failure was to make fools of those of us who believed his assurances that he was broadly a Reaganite, freedom-loving supply-sider, albeit one with an unfortunate weakness for Keynesianism, municipalism, Helseltinian central direction and grand projets.

For a short while, at least in the second half of 2019 and until the start of Covid, it felt as if there was some sort of plan, a fusion between his ideas and those of his advisers. I didn’t like all of them by any means, but it felt as if we would end up with a mix of tax cuts, deregulation, a radical reform of the Civil Service and procurement, the end of the licence fee, a semi-libertarian embrace of freedom, a semi-consumerist, conservative (rather than collectivist) approach to environmentalism, as well as lots of extra spending in many areas.

We ended up instead with massively more spending, a vicious series of tax increases, global corporation tax harmonisation that made a mockery of Brexit, a hard-Left green agenda that is barely less authoritarian than that of Extinction Rebellion, a war on consumers, including drivers, meat-eaters and anybody with a suburban lifestyle, a full-on paternalist agenda, more red tape and bureaucracy, no planning reform, an unleashing of the Civil Service and further gains for the woke classes. None of the good things have been delivered, and all the bad ones have happened, and worse.

His management of Covid was middling, average even by global standards, but no less disastrous for that. Yes, he faced difficult choices, but he refused to follow his supposed principles. Why did he not conduct proper cost-benefit analyses? Why didn’t he tell the public that furlough was strictly temporary? Why all the mendacious, demagogic nonsense about the NHS? The vaccine success was one of the few positive outcomes, but even that was squandered when Johnson returned control to the bureaucracy. The British state has learnt none of the right lessons from Covid when it comes to future pandemic-management.

Covid would have damaged any PM, but it permanently derailed this one, and not just because he suffered so badly from it. It gave Johnson a taste for unlimited spending and state power from which he never recovered. It also exposed the hypocrisy of an elite that thought it could party while the rest of the country was locked down, destroying Johnson’s greatest political advantage: the idea he was different and on the side of normal people.

Perhaps Johnson’s most perplexing failure was to misunderstand the purpose of Brexit, the policy that will define him forever more. Instead of a traditionally Eurosceptic pro-growth agenda, he chose to ape the continental economic model we had struggled so hard to escape. Instead of renewing our institutions, he happily embraced the technocratic status quo. His semi-socialist economic model is incompatible with growth, and will now need to be scrapped if his successor is to have any hope of rescuing the Conservative Party and the Brexit legacy.

Now that his Government has imploded in a sordid, chaotic mess of resignations and frustration, Johnson will soon have a lot more time to reflect on how it all went so pathetically, absurdly wrong.

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 10:53 am

salanya wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 10:50 am How is he able to appoint new cabinet members when he's resigning?

And which total arsewipe agrees to these positions when they're waiting for him to resign?

The Tories are determined to make themselves look as delusional, corrupt and ridiculous as they possibly can.

He's not really resigning. He's buying himself three months for something to come up and to tear his opponents apart.

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 10:49 am

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 10:19 am FFS, the problem is yes he was a disaster but only because he was an eco-warrior and not right wing enough...

Paywalled article C&P'd for convenience
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/0 ... oris-2019/

His premiership is ending in disaster, but I don’t regret backing Boris in 2019
Allister Heath 6 July 2022 • 9:30pm — 4 minutes

Is this the time for a mea culpa, or as our outgoing Prime Minister might have once put it, even a mea maxima culpa, for supporting Boris Johnson three years ago? The answer, dear readers, is an emphatic “No”, and not only because I’m not a Roman Catholic. His subsequent performance has been atrocious, delusional and indefensible, but Johnson was the right and only person for the job in 2019, a time when, some have conveniently forgotten, Britain was falling apart.

Within months of becoming leader of the Conservative Party, he had rescued the country from a debilitating constitutional crisis after a series of audacious gambles, delivered a meaningful Brexit and thus salvaged the greatest democratic exercise in our history, saved and united a Conservative Party that had fallen to 9 per cent in an election, destroyed the most Left-wing, fanatically dangerous leader in Labour’s history and repelled the threat of anti-Semitism. It was an astonishing turnaround job, confounding his Tory sceptics in the most vivid way imaginable.

For all these historic achievements, and despite his subsequent, calamitous failures, he shall be remembered as one of this country’s most consequential prime ministers. This is why the 160 MPs who supported him in June 2019, fully aware of his imperfections, should feel no regret for their decision, and neither should the 13.9 million people who voted Conservative on that glorious December day. He delivered on his core, short-term mission, against all the odds: backing him was the right thing to do at the time, even if it isn’t true any longer today.

Johnson’s tragedy is that he outlived his usefulness so quickly and turned from exceptional asset to prohibitively costly liability in record time, which is why so many erstwhile Johnson loyalists and voters turned on him decisively. He misunderstood his early luck and success, and refused to build a proper structure around himself, rather than a dysfunctional court made up of warring factions.

His staggering lack of self-awareness extended to the moral realm: he didn’t seem to grasp that voters are allergic to double-standards, hypocrisy and downright lies. His lack of a guiding ideology, other than personal ambition and self-interest, meant that he failed to understand why so many of his supporters feel ideologically betrayed by his high-tax, high-spend agenda.

It became apparent well over a year ago that there would be no lengthy Johnsonian era, as I fleetingly thought might have been possible in the immediate aftermath of the election, no new economic and social model named after him, no great project to remodel Britain a la Thatcher. It is a bitter disappointment, a catastrophic waste of an 80-seat majority, a seismic defeat for the forces of conservatism in an increasingly Left-wing culture, the ultimate proof of the futility of purposeless ambition, of the idea that charisma, slipperiness and off-the-cuff verbal dexterity beats principle, thoughtfulness, organisation, reliability, focus and managerial ability.

Johnson’s performance went downhill almost immediately after the General Election, with his decision to approve HS2 the first of many errors. His greatest failure was to make fools of those of us who believed his assurances that he was broadly a Reaganite, freedom-loving supply-sider, albeit one with an unfortunate weakness for Keynesianism, municipalism, Helseltinian central direction and grand projets.

For a short while, at least in the second half of 2019 and until the start of Covid, it felt as if there was some sort of plan, a fusion between his ideas and those of his advisers. I didn’t like all of them by any means, but it felt as if we would end up with a mix of tax cuts, deregulation, a radical reform of the Civil Service and procurement, the end of the licence fee, a semi-libertarian embrace of freedom, a semi-consumerist, conservative (rather than collectivist) approach to environmentalism, as well as lots of extra spending in many areas.

We ended up instead with massively more spending, a vicious series of tax increases, global corporation tax harmonisation that made a mockery of Brexit, a hard-Left green agenda that is barely less authoritarian than that of Extinction Rebellion, a war on consumers, including drivers, meat-eaters and anybody with a suburban lifestyle, a full-on paternalist agenda, more red tape and bureaucracy, no planning reform, an unleashing of the Civil Service and further gains for the woke classes. None of the good things have been delivered, and all the bad ones have happened, and worse.

His management of Covid was middling, average even by global standards, but no less disastrous for that. Yes, he faced difficult choices, but he refused to follow his supposed principles. Why did he not conduct proper cost-benefit analyses? Why didn’t he tell the public that furlough was strictly temporary? Why all the mendacious, demagogic nonsense about the NHS? The vaccine success was one of the few positive outcomes, but even that was squandered when Johnson returned control to the bureaucracy. The British state has learnt none of the right lessons from Covid when it comes to future pandemic-management.

Covid would have damaged any PM, but it permanently derailed this one, and not just because he suffered so badly from it. It gave Johnson a taste for unlimited spending and state power from which he never recovered. It also exposed the hypocrisy of an elite that thought it could party while the rest of the country was locked down, destroying Johnson’s greatest political advantage: the idea he was different and on the side of normal people.

Perhaps Johnson’s most perplexing failure was to misunderstand the purpose of Brexit, the policy that will define him forever more. Instead of a traditionally Eurosceptic pro-growth agenda, he chose to ape the continental economic model we had struggled so hard to escape. Instead of renewing our institutions, he happily embraced the technocratic status quo. His semi-socialist economic model is incompatible with growth, and will now need to be scrapped if his successor is to have any hope of rescuing the Conservative Party and the Brexit legacy.

Now that his Government has imploded in a sordid, chaotic mess of resignations and frustration, Johnson will soon have a lot more time to reflect on how it all went so pathetically, absurdly wrong.

Yes, I always keep mixing up the environmental policies of the Conservative Party with those of Extinction Rebellion.

Who on earth is this cunt?

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 11:24 am I hope the plaque on lectern falls to the ground & shatters as he speaks more lies to the UK public.

It would be fitting to see the symbol of a Democratic state shattered

I like neeps wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 9:52 amHaha ... True but I don't like him because he abandoned every single one of his leadership pledges and so is as much of a liar as Johnson. I don't think that will bother you average Sun/Mail/Telegraph reader. He's not like Jeremy Corbyn nationalising sausages.

...says he will continue to serve until the party chooses his successor.

Boris Johnson accuses Tory party of "eccentric" behaviour for ousting him, blaming the "herd instinct" of Westminster.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 11:40 am

I like neeps wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 9:52 amHaha ... True but I don't like him because he abandoned every single one of his leadership pledges and so is as much of a liar as Johnson. I don't think that will bother you average Sun/Mail/Telegraph reader. He's not like Jeremy Corbyn nationalising sausages.

Good Lord. "Starmer is as much of a liar as Johnson" is an incredible take. Absolutely hatstand.

Judging by this genuinely fucking dumb article https://actionnetwork.org/petitions/10-broken-pledges the case for "10 broken pledges" is thinner than Boris's moral core. Surely if there was a genuine case to answer there'd be more substantial criticism than this weaksauce shit?

PCPhil wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 9:57 am Truss reportedly straight back on the 1st flight from Indonesia as a matter of urgency! Only stopping for hair, makeover, photo session and Daily Mail column.

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 10:53 am

salanya wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 10:50 am How is he able to appoint new cabinet members when he's resigning?

And which total arsewipe agrees to these positions when they're waiting for him to resign?

The Tories are determined to make themselves look as delusional, corrupt and ridiculous as they possibly can.

He's not really resigning. He's buying himself three months for something to come up and to tear his opponents apart.

Ovals wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 11:53 am It's odd though - that given all the really bad Government he's overseen - it's his compulsive lieing, and utter stupidity, on what are fairly minor things (in the scale of things), that has done for him.

I mean - why on earth give a known sex pest a job as a whip. And why, when you are telling the public to isolate, allow, and attend parties in number 10 - that's just plain dumb, mindboggingly stupid. And, all politicians bend the truth, but to keep being caught out in obvious outright lies, for which the truth was always going to come out - is also bloody stupid.

Glad the the arsewipe has gone but what we'll get now will be just as bad, if not worse, and his departure will increase the Tory chances of winning the next election - and that's a far bigger issue.

PCPhil wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 12:01 pm

Ovals wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 11:53 am It's odd though - that given all the really bad Government he's overseen - it's his compulsive lieing, and utter stupidity, on what are fairly minor things (in the scale of things), that has done for him.

I mean - why on earth give a known sex pest a job as a whip. And why, when you are telling the public to isolate, allow, and attend parties in number 10 - that's just plain dumb, mindboggingly stupid. And, all politicians bend the truth, but to keep being caught out in obvious outright lies, for which the truth was always going to come out - is also bloody stupid.

Glad the the arsewipe has gone but what we'll get now will be just as bad, if not worse, and his departure will increase the Tory chances of winning the next election - and that's a far bigger issue.

They may get a boost but they will not want a ‘charismatic’ leader again who will bullsh1t his way to voters. Regarding the opposition. As long as the labour party keep yelling splitters at anyone who deviates from the true path (whatever the f it means to each faction) then they are and may as well be fvcked. A lot of them hate any labour prime ministers there have ever been more that they hate tories.

Spoken from a softy-lefty.

Ovals wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 11:53 am It's odd though - that given all the really bad Government he's overseen - it's his compulsive lieing, and utter stupidity, on what are fairly minor things (in the scale of things), that has done for him.

I mean - why on earth give a known sex pest a job as a whip. And why, when you are telling the public to isolate, allow, and attend parties in number 10 - that's just plain dumb, mindboggingly stupid. And, all politicians bend the truth, but to keep being caught out in obvious outright lies, for which the truth was always going to come out - is also bloody stupid.

Glad the the arsewipe has gone but what we'll get now will be just as bad, if not worse, and his departure will increase the Tory chances of winning the next election - and that's a far bigger issue.

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 11:30 am

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 11:24 am I hope the plaque on lectern falls to the ground & shatters as he speaks more lies to the UK public.

It would be fitting to see the symbol of a Democratic state shattered

What's the betting he merely states an "intention to resign" without actually committing to it? Reckon he still thinks all he needs to do is to buy time and in his mind this will all blow over without him actually leaving the position

Meanwhile Truss desperate to get back to the UK and makes sure she's not neglected in a leadership challenge, can't see why else she'd come back early.

ia801310 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 11:56 am Agree with this from Cummings

So long as Johnson is in post he will think there is a chance that he can somehow survive

yermum wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 12:09 pm I for one hope he does try some chicanery. This circus show could do with continuing on as it's both entertaining and is destroying the last vestiges of credibility of the Tories

ia801310 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 12:11 pm

Ovals wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 11:53 am It's odd though - that given all the really bad Government he's overseen - it's his compulsive lieing, and utter stupidity, on what are fairly minor things (in the scale of things), that has done for him.

I mean - why on earth give a known sex pest a job as a whip. And why, when you are telling the public to isolate, allow, and attend parties in number 10 - that's just plain dumb, mindboggingly stupid. And, all politicians bend the truth, but to keep being caught out in obvious outright lies, for which the truth was always going to come out - is also bloody stupid.

Glad the the arsewipe has gone but what we'll get now will be just as bad, if not worse, and his departure will increase the Tory chances of winning the next election - and that's a far bigger issue.

Not sure I agree with this. He was always doomed from the day he turned up at the first lockdown party.

Ovals wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 11:53 am I mean - why on earth give a known sex pest a job as a whip. And why, when you are telling the public to isolate, allow, and attend parties in number 10 - that's just plain dumb, mindboggingly stupid. And, all politicians bend the truth, but to keep being caught out in obvious outright lies, for which the truth was always going to come out - is also bloody stupid.

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 12:40 pm Was anyone else secretly hoping he'd prorogue 1922 Committee, burn down no 10, because if he can't have it, no one will, and then take Cummings hostage and lead a Government in exile from a tree house in a non-extradition country, accompanied by Dorries?

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 12:39 pm

Ovals wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 11:53 am I mean - why on earth give a known sex pest a job as a whip. And why, when you are telling the public to isolate, allow, and attend parties in number 10 - that's just plain dumb, mindboggingly stupid. And, all politicians bend the truth, but to keep being caught out in obvious outright lies, for which the truth was always going to come out - is also bloody stupid.

It's a prime example of their arrogance. They've gotten away with sh*tting on everyone else and stealing from the public purse in front of our eyes for so long, they really believed they could do anything and get away with it.

Ovals wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 12:43 pm

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 12:39 pm

Ovals wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 11:53 am I mean - why on earth give a known sex pest a job as a whip. And why, when you are telling the public to isolate, allow, and attend parties in number 10 - that's just plain dumb, mindboggingly stupid. And, all politicians bend the truth, but to keep being caught out in obvious outright lies, for which the truth was always going to come out - is also bloody stupid.

It's a prime example of their arrogance. They've gotten away with sh*tting on everyone else and stealing from the public purse in front of our eyes for so long, they really believed they could do anything and get away with it.

Agreed - but why do it anyway - there were plenty of MPs, that supported him, that he could have given the whips job to - why take the really stupid option of giving it to a known sex pest. It's beyond arrogance - it's plain crazy.

Ovals wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 12:43 pm

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 12:39 pm

Ovals wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 11:53 am I mean - why on earth give a known sex pest a job as a whip. And why, when you are telling the public to isolate, allow, and attend parties in number 10 - that's just plain dumb, mindboggingly stupid. And, all politicians bend the truth, but to keep being caught out in obvious outright lies, for which the truth was always going to come out - is also bloody stupid.

It's a prime example of their arrogance. They've gotten away with sh*tting on everyone else and stealing from the public purse in front of our eyes for so long, they really believed they could do anything and get away with it.

Agreed - but why do it anyway - there were plenty of MPs, that supported him, that he could have given the whips job to - why take the really stupid option of giving it to a known sex pest. It's beyond arrogance - it's plain crazy.

Ovals wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 12:43 pm Agreed - but why do it anyway - there were plenty of MPs, that supported him, that he could have given the whips job to - why take the really stupid option of giving it to a known sex pest. It's beyond arrogance - it's plain crazy.

_Os_ wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 12:57 pm...three categories moron/incompetent/compromised...

troglodiet wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 1:25 pm

_Os_ wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 12:57 pm...three categories moron/incompetent/compromised...

To be fair, about 99.997% of all politicians find themselves in all three categories.

A minority of politicians can be described using two of those words. If you look hard enough, you might find a politician somewhere that fits only one those 3 descriptions.

Ovals wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 12:43 pm Why do it anyway - there were plenty of MPs, that supported him, that he could have given the whips job to - why take the really stupid option of giving it to a known sex pest. It's beyond arrogance - it's plain crazy.

_Os_ wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 1:31 pm

troglodiet wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 1:25 pm

_Os_ wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 12:57 pm...three categories moron/incompetent/compromised...

To be fair, about 99.997% of all politicians find themselves in all three categories.

A minority of politicians can be described using two of those words. If you look hard enough, you might find a politician somewhere that fits only one those 3 descriptions.

That's not actually true though.

Starmer's shadow cabinet is clearly a merit based selection, multiple shadow ministers could be a threat to Starmer as opposition leader based purely on ability. Cooper and Reeves aren't morons, aren't incompetent, aren't compromised and if they are and it's just not public they're hardly likely to be little better than a rapist.

To put it into perspective, the UK has a worse executive team than the city of Cape Town.

Ovals wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 12:43 pm

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 12:39 pm

Ovals wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 11:53 am I mean - why on earth give a known sex pest a job as a whip. And why, when you are telling the public to isolate, allow, and attend parties in number 10 - that's just plain dumb, mindboggingly stupid. And, all politicians bend the truth, but to keep being caught out in obvious outright lies, for which the truth was always going to come out - is also bloody stupid.

It's a prime example of their arrogance. They've gotten away with sh*tting on everyone else and stealing from the public purse in front of our eyes for so long, they really believed they could do anything and get away with it.

Agreed - but why do it anyway - there were plenty of MPs, that supported him, that he could have given the whips job to - why take the really stupid option of giving it to a known sex pest. It's beyond arrogance - it's plain crazy.

Ovals wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 12:43 pm

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 12:39 pm

Ovals wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 11:53 am I mean - why on earth give a known sex pest a job as a whip. And why, when you are telling the public to isolate, allow, and attend parties in number 10 - that's just plain dumb, mindboggingly stupid. And, all politicians bend the truth, but to keep being caught out in obvious outright lies, for which the truth was always going to come out - is also bloody stupid.

It's a prime example of their arrogance. They've gotten away with sh*tting on everyone else and stealing from the public purse in front of our eyes for so long, they really believed they could do anything and get away with it.

Agreed - but why do it anyway - there were plenty of MPs, that supported him, that he could have given the whips job to - why take the really stupid option of giving it to a known sex pest. It's beyond arrogance - it's plain crazy.

Mahoney wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 1:59 pm

_Os_ wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 1:31 pm

troglodiet wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 1:25 pm


To be fair, about 99.997% of all politicians find themselves in all three categories.

A minority of politicians can be described using two of those words. If you look hard enough, you might find a politician somewhere that fits only one those 3 descriptions.

That's not actually true though.

Starmer's shadow cabinet is clearly a merit based selection, multiple shadow ministers could be a threat to Starmer as opposition leader based purely on ability. Cooper and Reeves aren't morons, aren't incompetent, aren't compromised and if they are and it's just not public they're hardly likely to be little better than a rapist.

To put it into perspective, the UK has a worse executive team than the city of Cape Town.

When people say this sort of thing - they're all dreadful, they're all as bad as each other, all politicians are liars - it's an excuse; either for disengaging (it's a relief not to have to form a view and take a position), or for supporting the real arseholes because you suspect them being in power is in your personal interest.