NPR

Lobby wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 11:17 am

tc27 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 10:03 am

assfly wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 9:11 am I think that's a fair assessment.

My only worry with Scotland is how they might get on with an injury to Finn Russel. At least Ireland have proved that they have some depth behind Sexton.

Italy look the best they ever have, but I still can't get by head around how they sometimes get the basics so wrong. Like their exit play, it's atrocious for an international team. I think a bit of tightening up here and there and they'll be picking up many more wins.

Italy are interesting right now.

I think Italy's first try for example they would have scored against anyone - it was just a brilliant attacking set. So not relying on individual brilliance or a lucky bounce/mistake to get a try is definitely the sign of a top class side.

On the other hand as you say they fluffed their exits multiple times.

While I agree this is the best and most competitive Italy team for a long time, I'd argue that the Italy team of the late 90s is probably still a high point for them. They were certainly on a par with the other 5N teams at the time and their results were good enough for them to force their way into the 6N. At one point it was even suggested that they should replace England in the 5N (when England signed an exclusive deal with Sky, much to the chagrin of the other home nations).

Before they joined the 6N they beat France in France (40 - 32), Ireland in Ireland and Italy (37 - 29 and 37 - 33) and Scotland (25 - 21) and were unlucky not to beat England in Huddersfield (they lost 23 -15 in the end but had a late try disallowed which would have given them the lead at that point in the match). They also won their first ever game in the 6N, beating Scotland 34 - 20, although by that time many of the team that had got them into the 6N were nearing retirement.

They haven't really had a consistent kicker since Diego Dominguez, a stalwart of their team in the 90s who was instrumental in many of their victories.

It'll be good to see how they improve when Garbisi returns, as he is a class player.

Has to be borne in mind that the comparative standard of the 6N is probably the highest it has ever been. There's probably also an extent to which the fact that Italy's new strength comes from an attacking dynamism rather than the big pack of the Castro et al era catches the eye a bit more.
They really lack a 9, sort that out and they'd have beaten France and will have a top half finish before too long

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 11:32 am

Lobby wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 11:17 am

tc27 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 10:03 am

Italy are interesting right now.

I think Italy's first try for example they would have scored against anyone - it was just a brilliant attacking set. So not relying on individual brilliance or a lucky bounce/mistake to get a try is definitely the sign of a top class side.

On the other hand as you say they fluffed their exits multiple times.

While I agree this is the best and most competitive Italy team for a long time, I'd argue that the Italy team of the late 90s is probably still a high point for them. They were certainly on a par with the other 5N teams at the time and their results were good enough for them to force their way into the 6N. At one point it was even suggested that they should replace England in the 5N (when England signed an exclusive deal with Sky, much to the chagrin of the other home nations).

Before they joined the 6N they beat France in France (40 - 32), Ireland in Ireland and Italy (37 - 29 and 37 - 33) and Scotland (25 - 21) and were unlucky not to beat England in Huddersfield (they lost 23 -15 in the end but had a late try disallowed which would have given them the lead at that point in the match). They also won their first ever game in the 6N, beating Scotland 34 - 20, although by that time many of the team that had got them into the 6N were nearing retirement.

They haven't really had a consistent kicker since Diego Dominguez, a stalwart of their team in the 90s who was instrumental in many of their victories.

It'll be good to see how they improve when Garbisi returns, as he is a class player.

Has to be borne in mind that the comparative standard of the 6N is probably the highest it has ever been. There's probably also an extent to which the fact that Italy's new strength comes from an attacking dynamism rather than the big pack of the Castro et al era catches the eye a bit more.
They really lack a 9, sort that out and they'd have beaten France and will have a top half finish before too long

It took France something like 40 years to win the 5N, Italy will get better.

They are hamstrung a bit by having only the one competitive club side, and even they will be lucky to finish top 8 and get into the top table European competition

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 11:32 am

Lobby wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 11:17 am

tc27 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 10:03 am

Italy are interesting right now.

I think Italy's first try for example they would have scored against anyone - it was just a brilliant attacking set. So not relying on individual brilliance or a lucky bounce/mistake to get a try is definitely the sign of a top class side.

On the other hand as you say they fluffed their exits multiple times.

While I agree this is the best and most competitive Italy team for a long time, I'd argue that the Italy team of the late 90s is probably still a high point for them. They were certainly on a par with the other 5N teams at the time and their results were good enough for them to force their way into the 6N. At one point it was even suggested that they should replace England in the 5N (when England signed an exclusive deal with Sky, much to the chagrin of the other home nations).

Before they joined the 6N they beat France in France (40 - 32), Ireland in Ireland and Italy (37 - 29 and 37 - 33) and Scotland (25 - 21) and were unlucky not to beat England in Huddersfield (they lost 23 -15 in the end but had a late try disallowed which would have given them the lead at that point in the match). They also won their first ever game in the 6N, beating Scotland 34 - 20, although by that time many of the team that had got them into the 6N were nearing retirement.

They haven't really had a consistent kicker since Diego Dominguez, a stalwart of their team in the 90s who was instrumental in many of their victories.

It'll be good to see how they improve when Garbisi returns, as he is a class player.

Has to be borne in mind that the comparative standard of the 6N is probably the highest it has ever been. There's probably also an extent to which the fact that Italy's new strength comes from an attacking dynamism rather than the big pack of the Castro et al era catches the eye a bit more.
They really lack a 9, sort that out and they'd have beaten France and will have a top half finish before too long

Garbisi will make a massive difference as well, he is a truly class player. I actually think Tommy Allen is a decent player but he has been poor in this 6N

Slick wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 11:52 am

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 11:32 am

Lobby wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 11:17 am

While I agree this is the best and most competitive Italy team for a long time, I'd argue that the Italy team of the late 90s is probably still a high point for them. They were certainly on a par with the other 5N teams at the time and their results were good enough for them to force their way into the 6N. At one point it was even suggested that they should replace England in the 5N (when England signed an exclusive deal with Sky, much to the chagrin of the other home nations).

Before they joined the 6N they beat France in France (40 - 32), Ireland in Ireland and Italy (37 - 29 and 37 - 33) and Scotland (25 - 21) and were unlucky not to beat England in Huddersfield (they lost 23 -15 in the end but had a late try disallowed which would have given them the lead at that point in the match). They also won their first ever game in the 6N, beating Scotland 34 - 20, although by that time many of the team that had got them into the 6N were nearing retirement.

They haven't really had a consistent kicker since Diego Dominguez, a stalwart of their team in the 90s who was instrumental in many of their victories.

It'll be good to see how they improve when Garbisi returns, as he is a class player.

Has to be borne in mind that the comparative standard of the 6N is probably the highest it has ever been. There's probably also an extent to which the fact that Italy's new strength comes from an attacking dynamism rather than the big pack of the Castro et al era catches the eye a bit more.
They really lack a 9, sort that out and they'd have beaten France and will have a top half finish before too long

Garbisi will make a massive difference as well, he is a truly class player. I actually think Tommy Allen is a decent player but he has been poor in this 6N

He's getting atrocious service, he played well ball in hand vs France but got shut down yesterday. I imagine the missed penalty with 10 to go vs France will haunt him.

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 11:39 am

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 11:32 am

Lobby wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 11:17 am

While I agree this is the best and most competitive Italy team for a long time, I'd argue that the Italy team of the late 90s is probably still a high point for them. They were certainly on a par with the other 5N teams at the time and their results were good enough for them to force their way into the 6N. At one point it was even suggested that they should replace England in the 5N (when England signed an exclusive deal with Sky, much to the chagrin of the other home nations).

Before they joined the 6N they beat France in France (40 - 32), Ireland in Ireland and Italy (37 - 29 and 37 - 33) and Scotland (25 - 21) and were unlucky not to beat England in Huddersfield (they lost 23 -15 in the end but had a late try disallowed which would have given them the lead at that point in the match). They also won their first ever game in the 6N, beating Scotland 34 - 20, although by that time many of the team that had got them into the 6N were nearing retirement.

They haven't really had a consistent kicker since Diego Dominguez, a stalwart of their team in the 90s who was instrumental in many of their victories.

It'll be good to see how they improve when Garbisi returns, as he is a class player.

Has to be borne in mind that the comparative standard of the 6N is probably the highest it has ever been. There's probably also an extent to which the fact that Italy's new strength comes from an attacking dynamism rather than the big pack of the Castro et al era catches the eye a bit more.
They really lack a 9, sort that out and they'd have beaten France and will have a top half finish before too long

It took France something like 40 years to win the 5N, Italy will get better.

They are hamstrung a bit by having only the one competitive club side, and even they will be lucky to finish top 8 and get into the top table European competition

That's one more than Wales.

More seriously, I think things are looking positive for Italy with that conveyor belt of talent coming from the u20s. Benetton are a decent club side as well, but a bit handicapped in the league because they lose 23 players to the international squad in the autumn and around the 6 Nations.

robmatic wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 12:12 pm More seriously, I think things are looking positive for Italy with that conveyor belt of talent coming from the u20s. Benetton are a decent club side as well, but a bit handicapped in the league because they lose 23 players to the international squad in the autumn and around the 6 Nations.

The main problem as I see it is what to do with Zebre

robmatic wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 12:12 pm More seriously, I think things are looking positive for Italy with that conveyor belt of talent coming from the u20s. Benetton are a decent club side as well, but a bit handicapped in the league because they lose 23 players to the international squad in the autumn and around the 6 Nations.

Conveyor belt - is that something like the long defunct No 10 factory?

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 10:18 am

_Os_ wrote: ↑Sun Feb 12, 2023 5:59 pm
France - Have gone a bit down in my estimation. Have some exciting attacking players in the backline, and some large units in the pack, but they seem a bit weaker than the sum of their parts (compared to really top teams through history). Also wondering if they have a fitness issue, especially after the Italy match, falling off at the end of matches is a huge weakness. They're a bit frustrating, watching them I think "they're doing well, but should be doing much better, but they're not".

All teams have injury issues at some point, and international rugby is all about depth of squads, but imo France really miss Woki and Danty in particular. Danty gives France so much front-foot ball from big runs in the centre. So far without those two they haven't looked the attacking force we saw last year.

I like Camille Chat, he is a hard-carrying hooker, maybe one of our French posters can say if he's out of form or injured, but he's not in the squad. At his best he'd give France some good momentum.

For me the big issue with France's performance against Ireland was the defence. The French defence gets talked up because of Shaun Edwards, and they did complete a crazy amount of tackles (about 250?). But their line speed wasn't great, the Irish were far better there and more organised. Their first up tackles were sometimes really weak, allowed Irish carriers to make ground through them and sometimes get the ball away too. Ruck contest had something similar happening, not as organised as other top sides on the defence, ideally you want someone competing for the ball when the tackle is made then one or two players cleaning out shortly after (backrows/locks) when there's a ruck that's being targeted, didn't see that much.

If line speed on defence is not great, first up tackling is not great, they slip off tackles (from memory 25 missed tackles?), then the ruck defence is haphazard and the opposition get clean quick ball. A side as good as Ireland is going to do what they did.

That's where I see France being weakest.

_Os_ wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 7:48 pm

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 10:18 am

_Os_ wrote: ↑Sun Feb 12, 2023 5:59 pm
France - Have gone a bit down in my estimation. Have some exciting attacking players in the backline, and some large units in the pack, but they seem a bit weaker than the sum of their parts (compared to really top teams through history). Also wondering if they have a fitness issue, especially after the Italy match, falling off at the end of matches is a huge weakness. They're a bit frustrating, watching them I think "they're doing well, but should be doing much better, but they're not".

All teams have injury issues at some point, and international rugby is all about depth of squads, but imo France really miss Woki and Danty in particular. Danty gives France so much front-foot ball from big runs in the centre. So far without those two they haven't looked the attacking force we saw last year.

I like Camille Chat, he is a hard-carrying hooker, maybe one of our French posters can say if he's out of form or injured, but he's not in the squad. At his best he'd give France some good momentum.

For me the big issue with France's performance against Ireland was the defence. The French defence gets talked up because of Shaun Edwards, and they did complete a crazy amount of tackles (about 250?). But their line speed wasn't great, the Irish were far better there and more organised. Their first up tackles were sometimes really weak, allowed Irish carriers to make ground through them and sometimes get the ball away too. Ruck contest had something similar happening, not as organised as other top sides on the defence, ideally you want someone competing for the ball when the tackle is made then one or two players cleaning out shortly after (backrows/locks) when there's a ruck that's being targeted, didn't see that much.

If line speed on defence is not great, first up tackling is not great, they slip off tackles (from memory 25 missed tackles?), then the ruck defence is haphazard and the opposition get clean quick ball. A side as good as Ireland is going to do what they did.

That's where I see France being weakest.

Do you think they lack intensity at times. Play some great rugby but also seem to just go to sleep a bit.

Ovals wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 7:57 pm

_Os_ wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 7:48 pm

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 10:18 am


All teams have injury issues at some point, and international rugby is all about depth of squads, but imo France really miss Woki and Danty in particular. Danty gives France so much front-foot ball from big runs in the centre. So far without those two they haven't looked the attacking force we saw last year.

I like Camille Chat, he is a hard-carrying hooker, maybe one of our French posters can say if he's out of form or injured, but he's not in the squad. At his best he'd give France some good momentum.

For me the big issue with France's performance against Ireland was the defence. The French defence gets talked up because of Shaun Edwards, and they did complete a crazy amount of tackles (about 250?). But their line speed wasn't great, the Irish were far better there and more organised. Their first up tackles were sometimes really weak, allowed Irish carriers to make ground through them and sometimes get the ball away too. Ruck contest had something similar happening, not as organised as other top sides on the defence, ideally you want someone competing for the ball when the tackle is made then one or two players cleaning out shortly after (backrows/locks) when there's a ruck that's being targeted, didn't see that much.

If line speed on defence is not great, first up tackling is not great, they slip off tackles (from memory 25 missed tackles?), then the ruck defence is haphazard and the opposition get clean quick ball. A side as good as Ireland is going to do what they did.

That's where I see France being weakest.

Do you think they lack intensity at times. Play some great rugby but also seem to just go to sleep a bit.

Ja, it's something like that. Like I said in my short summary of each side up the thread. There's something not right, hard to point out what exactly. Fitness covers a lot of it maybe, the French side just looks really massive, quite a few of them aren't toned at all. Frustrating to watch, I just get the sense they should be far better than they are.

It's France though, it could all click in a knockout game against the Boks (they get more excited about the ABs though).

I was really looking forward to the weekends rugby. But it’s over now, and need to wait 2 weeks now.

Ymx wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 8:11 pm I was really looking forward to the weekends rugby. But it’s over now, and need to wait 2 weeks now.

Hate the fallow weeks !

Ovals wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 8:13 pm

Ymx wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 8:11 pm I was really looking forward to the weekends rugby. But it’s over now, and need to wait 2 weeks now.

Hate the fallow weeks !

Yeah, it’s a genuinely horrible feeling

At least the break weeks give players returning from injury a chance to get in a club game, to shake off the rust, & those who picked up HIAs, can work thru the, Return-to-Play protocols.

Slick wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 9:59 am

assfly wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 9:11 am I think that's a fair assessment.

My only worry with Scotland is how they might get on with an injury to Finn Russel. At least Ireland have proved that they have some depth behind Sexton.

Italy look the best they ever have, but I still can't get by head around how they sometimes get the basics so wrong. Like their exit play, it's atrocious for an international team. I think a bit of tightening up here and there and they'll be picking up many more wins.

To be honest, as well as Irelands replacement 10 did on Saturday, I actually think we have more depth there than Ireland - although that does drop a fair bit with Hastings being injured

You might explain this. Ben Healy, who is third choice at Munster, is in the Scottish squad.

It is really going to take something special to break down the Irish attack. The two players who clear out at the ruck are incredibly efficient, whether it's a prop or a wing. Slowing down their ball isn't enough, defence is going to have start sending them backwards and attacking the ball. I'm not sure if any team in the 6N has the ability to do this for 80 minutes.

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 9:28 pm At least the break weeks give players returning from injury a chance to get in a club game, to shake off the rust, & those who picked up HIAs, can work thru the, Return-to-Play protocols.

Yeah as frustrating as they are I think they are a necessary evil

This is cool

Although when KB realised his mistake, he plumped for Johnny Walker Blue Label instead of a 64 year old whisky, which would have come in at around ten grand at least

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 9:13 am Although when KB realised his mistake, he plumped for Johnny Walker Blue Label instead of a 64 year old whisky, which would have come in at around ten grand at least

He didn't say he would pay for it.

I was in the Whisky Exchange a couple of days ago. There were some very confused French folks in there failing to understand that you can pay 25 grand for a bottle of Whisky,

themaddog wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 10:44 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 9:59 am

assfly wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 9:11 am I think that's a fair assessment.

My only worry with Scotland is how they might get on with an injury to Finn Russel. At least Ireland have proved that they have some depth behind Sexton.

Italy look the best they ever have, but I still can't get by head around how they sometimes get the basics so wrong. Like their exit play, it's atrocious for an international team. I think a bit of tightening up here and there and they'll be picking up many more wins.

To be honest, as well as Irelands replacement 10 did on Saturday, I actually think we have more depth there than Ireland - although that does drop a fair bit with Hastings being injured

You might explain this. Ben Healy, who is third choice at Munster, is in the Scottish squad.

I think you've gone Irish precious a little early here, but nonetheless...

We've got Adam Hastings with 27 caps, Blair Kinghorn (who is a much better 15 but has done a very decent job at 10 in the last 18 months) with 40 caps, we then have a group of 3 young guys getting good URC time - Charlie Savala, Ross Thompson, Tom Jordan - and that's before we get to the legend that is Duncy Weir with 30 caps.

I know nothing about Healy, but depending on how highly strung the Irishman you speak with is he is either 3rd choice club man or a real talent who hasn't been given his chance.

Admittedly I don't know much about Irish 10's either, but even your own balanced media seems to think there is quite a drop off after Sexton

Slick wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 11:05 am

themaddog wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 10:44 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 9:59 am

To be honest, as well as Irelands replacement 10 did on Saturday, I actually think we have more depth there than Ireland - although that does drop a fair bit with Hastings being injured

You might explain this. Ben Healy, who is third choice at Munster, is in the Scottish squad.

I think you've gone Irish precious a little early here, but nonetheless...

We've got Adam Hastings with 27 caps, Blair Kinghorn (who is a much better 15 but has done a very decent job at 10 in the last 18 months) with 40 caps, we then have a group of 3 young guys getting good URC time - Charlie Savala, Ross Thompson, Tom Jordan - and that's before we get to the legend that is Duncy Weir with 30 caps.

I know nothing about Healy, but depending on how highly strung the Irishman you speak with is he is either 3rd choice club man or a real talent who hasn't been given his chance.

Admittedly I don't know much about Irish 10's either, but even your own balanced media seems to think there is quite a drop off after Sexton

Richie Simpson in the u20s looks a decent player as well.

For reference, Jordan and Savala are 22, Thompson 23. Jordan has played 14 times for Glasgow (11 starts), Savala 26 times for Edinburgh (12 starts), Thompson 39 times for Glasgow (27 starts). So all starting to get good regular time.

Slick wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 11:05 am

themaddog wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 10:44 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 9:59 am

To be honest, as well as Irelands replacement 10 did on Saturday, I actually think we have more depth there than Ireland - although that does drop a fair bit with Hastings being injured

You might explain this. Ben Healy, who is third choice at Munster, is in the Scottish squad.

I think you've gone Irish precious a little early here, but nonetheless...

We've got Adam Hastings with 27 caps, Blair Kinghorn (who is a much better 15 but has done a very decent job at 10 in the last 18 months) with 40 caps, we then have a group of 3 young guys getting good URC time - Charlie Savala, Ross Thompson, Tom Jordan - and that's before we get to the legend that is Duncy Weir with 30 caps.

I know nothing about Healy, but depending on how highly strung the Irishman you speak with is he is either 3rd choice club man or a real talent who hasn't been given his chance.

Admittedly I don't know much about Irish 10's either, but even your own balanced media seems to think there is quite a drop off after Sexton

Ireland's current options at FH are Sexton, Ross Byrne, Crowley, Carbery, Frawley and Harry Byrne (they'd be the ones with recent squad time). Jack Carty and Billy Burns have played for us in the past and are first choice for Connacht and Ulster respectively. Sam Prendergast is highly rated playing for the 20s. Ulster also have a former Munster and decent u20s FH, Jake Flannery.

The problem is that 7 of the names I just mentioned play for Munster and Leinster. 5 of them for Leinster.

Ross Byrne, despite playing more games for Leinster in the last few years than all our other FHs combined, was 5th or 6th choice at the start of the season but Sexton's injury meant he got loads of time with the firsts so he has jumped well up. He's an incredibly experienced operator below international level. Most thought Frawley (played against NZ Maori last summer) would cement his spot as second choice and heir apparent to Sexton but unfortunately he suffered a bad injury.

Healy is fine as a player but not backed enough and he's decided to take a punt on playing WC rugby this year as opposed to fighting it out with the two ahead of him at Munster and the other 4 at Leinster, who he may or may not end up better than.

Btw, saying there's a big dip from one of our best players ever to next in line is hardly saying they're poor players. We have our best strength in depth at FH ever. The question is really who to back. I think Prendergast at Leinster and Crowley at Munster will probably be the names we'll see over the next few years.

5 of them for Leinster.

That's pretty mad.

Slick wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 4:24 pm

5 of them for Leinster.

That's pretty mad.

17 year difference between oldest and youngest!

Tbf, Sexton will be gone before Prendergast has full contract. Harry Byrne might be the other to go. That'll give us a decent age profile of FHs.

Slick wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 11:05 am

themaddog wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 10:44 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 9:59 am

To be honest, as well as Irelands replacement 10 did on Saturday, I actually think we have more depth there than Ireland - although that does drop a fair bit with Hastings being injured

You might explain this. Ben Healy, who is third choice at Munster, is in the Scottish squad.

I think you've gone Irish precious a little early here, but nonetheless...

We've got Adam Hastings with 27 caps, Blair Kinghorn (who is a much better 15 but has done a very decent job at 10 in the last 18 months) with 40 caps, we then have a group of 3 young guys getting good URC time - Charlie Savala, Ross Thompson, Tom Jordan - and that's before we get to the legend that is Duncy Weir with 30 caps.

I know nothing about Healy, but depending on how highly strung the Irishman you speak with is he is either 3rd choice club man or a real talent who hasn't been given his chance.

Admittedly I don't know much about Irish 10's either, but even your own balanced media seems to think there is quite a drop off after Sexton

Ben healy has had 50 chances with munster in the last few years, he hasn't stepped up. Maybe he will be a late developer, he has a decent boot, good pass, doesn't really threaten the line or get the backs moving hence now 3rd choice with Munster.

Slick wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 11:05 am

themaddog wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 10:44 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 9:59 am

To be honest, as well as Irelands replacement 10 did on Saturday, I actually think we have more depth there than Ireland - although that does drop a fair bit with Hastings being injured

You might explain this. Ben Healy, who is third choice at Munster, is in the Scottish squad.

I think you've gone Irish precious a little early here, but nonetheless...

We've got Adam Hastings with 27 caps, Blair Kinghorn (who is a much better 15 but has done a very decent job at 10 in the last 18 months) with 40 caps, we then have a group of 3 young guys getting good URC time - Charlie Savala, Ross Thompson, Tom Jordan - and that's before we get to the legend that is Duncy Weir with 30 caps.

I know nothing about Healy, but depending on how highly strung the Irishman you speak with is he is either 3rd choice club man or a real talent who hasn't been given his chance.

Admittedly I don't know much about Irish 10's either, but even your own balanced media seems to think there is quite a drop off after Sexton

Asking you to clarify your statement is precious?

Luckycharmer wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 5:11 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 11:05 am

themaddog wrote: ↑Mon Feb 13, 2023 10:44 pm

You might explain this. Ben Healy, who is third choice at Munster, is in the Scottish squad.

I think you've gone Irish precious a little early here, but nonetheless...

We've got Adam Hastings with 27 caps, Blair Kinghorn (who is a much better 15 but has done a very decent job at 10 in the last 18 months) with 40 caps, we then have a group of 3 young guys getting good URC time - Charlie Savala, Ross Thompson, Tom Jordan - and that's before we get to the legend that is Duncy Weir with 30 caps.

I know nothing about Healy, but depending on how highly strung the Irishman you speak with is he is either 3rd choice club man or a real talent who hasn't been given his chance.

Admittedly I don't know much about Irish 10's either, but even your own balanced media seems to think there is quite a drop off after Sexton

Ben healy has had 50 chances with munster in the last few years, he hasn't stepped up. Maybe he will be a late developer, he has a decent boot, good pass, doesn't really threaten the line or get the backs moving hence now 3rd choice with Munster.

Plenty time for Healy. Van der Merwe was virtually on the scrap heap at 22 when he signed for Edinburgh.

CM11 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 4:30 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 4:24 pm

5 of them for Leinster.

That's pretty mad.

17 year difference between oldest and youngest!

Tbf, Sexton will be gone before Prendergast has full contract. Harry Byrne might be the other to go. That'll give us a decent age profile of FHs.

He's been stupidly impressive in the u20s so far.

The welsh commentators were even talking about how his mannerisms, & playing style is so much like Sexton. He's a big enough guy too, so you wouldn't be worried about his ability to front up in defense.

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 8:31 pm

CM11 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 4:30 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 4:24 pm

That's pretty mad.

17 year difference between oldest and youngest!

Tbf, Sexton will be gone before Prendergast has full contract. Harry Byrne might be the other to go. That'll give us a decent age profile of FHs.

He's been stupidly impressive in the u20s so far.

The welsh commentators were even talking about how his mannerisms, & playing style is so much like Sexton. He's a big enough guy too, so you wouldn't be worried about his ability to front up in defense.

Looking forward to seeing if he can make the step up. Might see Frawley back in the centre.

Biffer wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:10 pmFor reference, Jordan and Savala are 22, Thompson 23. Jordan has played 14 times for Glasgow (11 starts), Savala 26 times for Edinburgh (12 starts), Thompson 39 times for Glasgow (27 starts). So all starting to get good regular time.

TJ's playing time for Glasgow was restricted until he ceased being classed as an offshore player. He has played almost every game since. He is still a couple of years away from being Scottish qualified, but is committed to stay and do so. I know him fairly well so can't help being a bit biased, but the way he took to pro rugby was impressive. A couple more years and he will be an experienced and battle hardened pro ready to step up.

I have been told by Super 6 players I know that TJ has more potential than either Savala or Thompson, even though the Bulls moved him to 12 to accommodate Thompson. On his performances so far, I think they may be right.

weegie01 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 15, 2023 9:27 am

Biffer wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:10 pmFor reference, Jordan and Savala are 22, Thompson 23. Jordan has played 14 times for Glasgow (11 starts), Savala 26 times for Edinburgh (12 starts), Thompson 39 times for Glasgow (27 starts). So all starting to get good regular time.

TJ's playing time for Glasgow was restricted until he ceased being classed as an offshore player. He has played almost every game since. He is still a couple of years away from being Scottish qualified, but is committed to stay and do so. I know him fairly well so can't help being a bit biased, but the way he took to pro rugby was impressive. A couple more years and he will be an experienced and battle hardened pro ready to step up.

I have been told by Super 6 players I know that TJ has more potential than either Savala or Thompson, even though the Bulls moved him to 12 to accommodate Thompson. On his performances so far, I think they may be right.

It’s just nice to be talking about three or four potential young 10s instead of one, maybe, in a couple of years, like we used to.

Biffer wrote: ↑Wed Feb 15, 2023 9:31 am

weegie01 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 15, 2023 9:27 am

Biffer wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:10 pmFor reference, Jordan and Savala are 22, Thompson 23. Jordan has played 14 times for Glasgow (11 starts), Savala 26 times for Edinburgh (12 starts), Thompson 39 times for Glasgow (27 starts). So all starting to get good regular time.

TJ's playing time for Glasgow was restricted until he ceased being classed as an offshore player. He has played almost every game since. He is still a couple of years away from being Scottish qualified, but is committed to stay and do so. I know him fairly well so can't help being a bit biased, but the way he took to pro rugby was impressive. A couple more years and he will be an experienced and battle hardened pro ready to step up.

I have been told by Super 6 players I know that TJ has more potential than either Savala or Thompson, even though the Bulls moved him to 12 to accommodate Thompson. On his performances so far, I think they may be right.

It’s just nice to be talking about three or four potential young 10s instead of one, maybe, in a couple of years, like we used to.

The pedant in me writes;

Glasgow's website says Jordan is 24 (born Sept 98), he signed for Ayr in 2019, so will be SQ in 2024, probably just as he turns 26.
At that point Kinghorn will be 27, Hastings nearly 28, so a good few years left in all of them

Bollox

Tadhg Beirne has been ruled out of the remainder of Ireland's Guinness Six Nations campaign.

The Munster lock is due to have surgery today and will be out for 12 weeks, the IRFU said, meaning he will also miss crucial BTK URC and Champions Cup games for his province.

Beirne, 31, suffered the injury shortly into the second half of the 32-19 win over France.

"Tadhg Beirne will undergo surgery today on the ankle injury he sustained in Saturday's win over France. Unfortunately Tadhg will be ruled out for up to 12 weeks," they said.

https://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2023/021 ... -12-weeks/

weegie01 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 15, 2023 9:27 am

Biffer wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:10 pmFor reference, Jordan and Savala are 22, Thompson 23. Jordan has played 14 times for Glasgow (11 starts), Savala 26 times for Edinburgh (12 starts), Thompson 39 times for Glasgow (27 starts). So all starting to get good regular time.

TJ's playing time for Glasgow was restricted until he ceased being classed as an offshore player. He has played almost every game since. He is still a couple of years away from being Scottish qualified, but is committed to stay and do so. I know him fairly well so can't help being a bit biased, but the way he took to pro rugby was impressive. A couple more years and he will be an experienced and battle hardened pro ready to step up.

I have been told by Super 6 players I know that TJ has more potential than either Savala or Thompson, even though the Bulls moved him to 12 to accommodate Thompson. On his performances so far, I think they may be right.

From what I’ve seen I tend to agree with this. To me Savala and Thompson are going to improve and be good club players but I can see Jordan making the jump up to the top level

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Thu Feb 16, 2023 7:00 pm Bollox

Tadhg Beirne has been ruled out of the remainder of Ireland's Guinness Six Nations campaign.

The Munster lock is due to have surgery today and will be out for 12 weeks, the IRFU said, meaning he will also miss crucial BTK URC and Champions Cup games for his province.

Beirne, 31, suffered the injury shortly into the second half of the 32-19 win over France.

"Tadhg Beirne will undergo surgery today on the ankle injury he sustained in Saturday's win over France. Unfortunately Tadhg will be ruled out for up to 12 weeks," they said.

https://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2023/021 ... -12-weeks/

Shite x 2

Beirne played the two most important matches. The banana skin and the big one. He'll definitely be missed but if we get Sheahan back and maybe JGP/Furlong/Henshaw for the later stages it'll balance out and our starting team isn't much weaker with Hendo anyway.

The positives will be that Baird (probably, given he was retained) gets more top level experience. I'm not convinced he's a lock but then I didn't think we'd carry Beirne as a lock playing a 6's role so we'll see.

CM11 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 16, 2023 11:31 pm Beirne played the two most important matches. The banana skin and the big one. He'll definitely be missed but if we get Sheahan back and maybe JGP/Furlong/Henshaw for the later stages it'll balance out and our starting team isn't much weaker with Hendo anyway.

The positives will be that Baird (probably, given he was retained) gets more top level experience. I'm not convinced he's a lock but then I didn't think we'd carry Beirne as a lock playing a 6's role so we'll see.

Aye, you keep thinking the Wales game was the banana skin.

Biffer wrote: ↑Thu Feb 16, 2023 11:49 pm

CM11 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 16, 2023 11:31 pm Beirne played the two most important matches. The banana skin and the big one. He'll definitely be missed but if we get Sheahan back and maybe JGP/Furlong/Henshaw for the later stages it'll balance out and our starting team isn't much weaker with Hendo anyway.

The positives will be that Baird (probably, given he was retained) gets more top level experience. I'm not convinced he's a lock but then I didn't think we'd carry Beirne as a lock playing a 6's role so we'll see.

Aye, you keep thinking the Wales game was the banana skin.

History shows it has been, even when otherwise we've been performing well. Gatland always seemed to instill the spite he feels towards the IRFU in the teams he has faced us with.