NPR

Your Mother is starting to sound like Mog. Not a good thing.

Are there disputes about it mutating?

Perhaps I’ve read the wrong stuff.

But understand it to have mutated and be most closely linked to the cold virus.

I don't know enough about vaccines, but surely governments around the world would not have pledge billions to develop something that has no chance of success. It is true that we don't know if it'll work yet, but all signs are positive. Dismissing a vaccine as an option is a bit weird if I'm honest, almost Bimbo like.

Nearly 3000 new confirmed cases in Spain today. Looks like the UK government called this correctly.

Longshanks wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 5:57 pm I don't know enough about vaccines, but surely governments around the world would not have pledge billions to develop something that has no chance of success. It is true that we don't know if it'll work yet, but all signs are positive. Dismissing a vaccine as an option is a bit weird if I'm honest, almost Bimbo like.

They’re investing to open economies and to push this disease in to the same risk as the flu.

Yes, and we have new flu vaccines needed each year.

It hasn’t eradicated the flu. This is not like the old diseases, it mutates and behaves like a cold.

Ymx wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 6:06 pm

Longshanks wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 5:57 pm I don't know enough about vaccines, but surely governments around the world would not have pledge billions to develop something that has no chance of success. It is true that we don't know if it'll work yet, but all signs are positive. Dismissing a vaccine as an option is a bit weird if I'm honest, almost Bimbo like.

Yes, and we have new flu vaccines needed each year.

It hasn’t eradicated the flu. This is not like the old diseases, it mutates and behaves like a cold.

Yes, and it might be that we need yearly jabs.
We'll just have to see.

True.

Ymx wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 5:46 pm Are there disputes about it mutating?

Perhaps I’ve read the wrong stuff.

But understand it to have mutated and be most closely linked to the cold virus.

There is no such thing as 'the' cold virus. There's not even an illness which you can call the common cold. It's a group of infections that cause similar symptoms and are for the most part mild. The common cold is the description given to a group of similar diseases of the respiratory tract which include most commonly about 100 different rhinoviruses, but also four coronaviruses, some influenza viruses and some adenovirus plus another hundred or so others. The four coronaviruses account for about 15% of common cold infections. To inoculate against the common cold would take over 100 different vaccinations so it's completely impractical. It's perfectly possible to develop a vaccine for one individual virus from this lot, but what would be the point? You'd get rid a few percent of cold cases a year, no impact at all. It's worth doing it where the illness caused is more severe hence its done for certain strains of flu as this saves lives. Similarly, because CV19 costs lives, its worth developing a vaccine for it as well.

Flu mutates very rapidly for reasons of its own genetics. There are genes which act as 'proofreading' mechanisms in genetic replication, checking that copied dna or rna is correct. Coronaviruses have these proofreading mechanisms but influenza viruses do not. The upshot of this is that the flu viruses mutate about four times as fast as the coronavirus. Also, there are 10 different influenza A viruses plus one each of influenze b, c, and D, but realistically there are only five or six that are common. Each of those however have multiple strains that are endemic in humans and each of these strains is mutating at four times the rate of the coronavirus. There's some suggestion that there might be a couple of strains of Covid, but the key structures being targeted by the vaccine are the same across different strains.

Tl;Dr there's a lot more strains of cold and flu and they mutate faster, so comparing a flu vaccine and a covid vaccine isn't valid.

Ymx wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 5:46 pm Are there disputes about it mutating?

Perhaps I’ve read the wrong stuff.

But understand it to have mutated and be most closely linked to the cold virus.

It's true that there are minor mutations going on - but they're extremely minor to the core, and not the shell, which is what's doing the damage. As I understand it there are three mutations round the globe which is how they're tracing the different infection paths, but there's no suggestion yet that it's mutating to a less deadly form

Also, the suggestion that it's most closely linked to the common cold is one of those true/not true things. The most common form of the common cold comes from Rhinoviruses. There are 7 known human coronaviruses, of which the 4 most common are symptomatically similar to these and get lumped in as the same thing. The other 3 coronaviruses are MERS, SARS, and Covid 19. Genetically, Covid 19 is most similar to SARS

I could be wrong but get the strong feeling we will not eliminate it like smallpox.

But we will learn to manage and treat it better, and slowly grow stronger immunity from it. Not complete immunity. But enough to limit the damage.

And mostly by better managing treatment, not vaccines

But as you say I’m no expert chaps.

But mother fvckers, if you call me MOG one more time

Ymx wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:04 pm I could be wrong but get the strong feeling we will not eliminate it like smallpox.

But we will learn to manage and treat it better, and slowly grow stronger immunity from it. Not complete immunity. But enough to limit the damage.

And mostly by better managing treatment, not vaccines

But as you say I’m no expert chaps.

But mother fvckers, if you call me MOG one more time

Maybe we will, maybe we won't. Maybe we're going to need regular vaccinations for 4-5 years - and that sort of immunity for would kill it in country; provided you didn't re-import it from an infected country again. So, unless we can eradicate it in the third world, or develop some sort of long lasting immunity, then that's a long term risk. But - the simple truth is that NO-ONE, and I really do mean NO-ONE knows. There's a lot of well meaning, and less well meaning speculation out there, but the simple truth is that the guys developing the vaccines are being very honest - they understand more about the entire process and they are repeatedly saying that they do not know. It could be one jab is enough. It could be a booster does the trick. It could need regular injections. It could be that none of the vaccines work in any shape at all

Yes I get it, we don’t know.

But I do believe we are getting better at treating severe cases of it, and the recent conclusion about blood thinning etc. So I’m clearly thinking and perhaps hoping our return to normality is in reducing this with medical treatment science to be equivalent to a flu.

Regards,
Dr YM x

Ymx wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:27 pm Yes I get it, we don’t know.

But I do believe we are getting better at treating severe cases of it, and the recent conclusion about blood thinning etc. So I’m clearly thinking and perhaps hoping our return to normality is in reducing this with medical treatment science to be equivalent to a flu.

Regards,
Dr YM x

Unless we discover something on the books which is the silver bullet, we're a lot further away from reaching the point of treatment making this radically less lethal than we are from some sort of vaccination/immunity at the moment. We need to reduce the mortality rate at least 10 fold, if not 100 fold, before we can start to be blase about this thing

Saint wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:34 pm

Ymx wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:27 pm Yes I get it, we don’t know.

But I do believe we are getting better at treating severe cases of it, and the recent conclusion about blood thinning etc. So I’m clearly thinking and perhaps hoping our return to normality is in reducing this with medical treatment science to be equivalent to a flu.

Regards,
Dr YM x

Unless we discover something on the books which is the silver bullet, we're a lot further away from reaching the point of treatment making this radically less lethal than we are from some sort of vaccination/immunity at the moment. We need to reduce the mortality rate at least 10 fold, if not 100 fold, before we can start to be blase about this thing

Our UK death rate is back to normal at present, compared to other years.

Just for clarity, the death rate was double when cv was rife.

Ymx wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:40 pm

Saint wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:34 pm

Ymx wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:27 pm Yes I get it, we don’t know.

But I do believe we are getting better at treating severe cases of it, and the recent conclusion about blood thinning etc. So I’m clearly thinking and perhaps hoping our return to normality is in reducing this with medical treatment science to be equivalent to a flu.

Regards,
Dr YM x

Unless we discover something on the books which is the silver bullet, we're a lot further away from reaching the point of treatment making this radically less lethal than we are from some sort of vaccination/immunity at the moment. We need to reduce the mortality rate at least 10 fold, if not 100 fold, before we can start to be blase about this thing

Our UK death rate is back to normal at present, compared to other years.

Offices are still closed, pubs and restaurants have restricted opening, no theatres, clubs, cinema.....

This is not a long term sustainable position as we effectively have something like 10 million unemployed right now, hidden by furlough


Whatever we have right now is not normal

Ymx wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:40 pm

Saint wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:34 pm

Ymx wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:27 pm Yes I get it, we don’t know.

But I do believe we are getting better at treating severe cases of it, and the recent conclusion about blood thinning etc. So I’m clearly thinking and perhaps hoping our return to normality is in reducing this with medical treatment science to be equivalent to a flu.

Regards,
Dr YM x

Unless we discover something on the books which is the silver bullet, we're a lot further away from reaching the point of treatment making this radically less lethal than we are from some sort of vaccination/immunity at the moment. We need to reduce the mortality rate at least 10 fold, if not 100 fold, before we can start to be blase about this thing

Our UK death rate is back to normal at present, compared to other years.

While half the population is working from home, were all social distancing and wearing masks, there are no concerts, cinemas, theatre, sport or any other cultural activities and no tourism. Yeah, great stat.

Ymx wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:27 pm Yes I get it, we don’t know.

But I do believe we are getting better at treating severe cases of it, and the recent conclusion about blood thinning etc. So I’m clearly thinking and perhaps hoping our return to normality is in reducing this with medical treatment science to be equivalent to a flu.

Regards,
Dr YM x

Flu.

That we vaccinate millions of people for every year.

Biffer wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:58 pm

Ymx wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:27 pm Yes I get it, we don’t know.

But I do believe we are getting better at treating severe cases of it, and the recent conclusion about blood thinning etc. So I’m clearly thinking and perhaps hoping our return to normality is in reducing this with medical treatment science to be equivalent to a flu.

Regards,
Dr YM x

Flu.

That we vaccinate millions of people for every year.

Does it actually work?

Local lockdown (of sorts) being announced for selected areas in the north. Ban from meeting indoors

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 8:06 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:58 pm

Ymx wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:27 pm Yes I get it, we don’t know.

But I do believe we are getting better at treating severe cases of it, and the recent conclusion about blood thinning etc. So I’m clearly thinking and perhaps hoping our return to normality is in reducing this with medical treatment science to be equivalent to a flu.

Regards,
Dr YM x

Flu.

That we vaccinate millions of people for every year.

Does it actually work?

Usually about 50%. Which for a disease with an r number of about 1.5, is good enough to prevent epidemics. For individuals, half are protected who otherwise wouldn’t be. It’s not perfect but it has a very significant beneficial effect.

Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 8:20 pm Local lockdown (of sorts) being announced for selected areas in the north. Ban from meeting indoors

If we can continue to identify hot spots like this then it possibly works. Again, it's not sustainable, but as a short term granular response we might get through 6-9 months like tbis.

twitter wrote:Yo @MattHancock, when I was 19, I spent the day drinking and taking drugs with two lads, in a flat, in L4. One robbed spuds and bread from the kwikky because he’d spent all his money on crack. The other repeatedly tried to drink from a lamp. They both made more sense than you.

Insane_Homer wrote: ↑Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:19 pm

twitter wrote:Yo @MattHancock, when I was 19, I spent the day drinking and taking drugs with two lads, in a flat, in L4. One robbed spuds and bread from the kwikky because he’d spent all his money on crack. The other repeatedly tried to drink from a lamp. They both made more sense than you.

Hancock was in full "I don't know what I'm talking about" mode this morning

There was confusion following health secretary Matt Hancock’s morning interviews about whether households in the affected areas would be allowed to visit peoples’ homes outside the restricted zone.

The official guidance suggests this would illegal but Hancock initially suggested it would be allowed as long as people adhered to social distancing, telling BBC Breakfast: “Strictly, the law that we’re bringing in is that two households cannot meet in the area defined but obviously any two households should follow the social distancing rules.”

Later on BBC Radio Manchester he suggested that visiting households outside the affected area was “against the advice” but suggested it would not be covered by law, saying there was a “distinction between the guidance and the law on this issue”.

However, this appears to be against the official advice published on Friday morning. The DHSC has been contacted for clarity.

Hancock appeared to struggle when pressed on the issue by BBC Radio Manchester presenter Becky Want, saying: “I’ll make it absolutely clear, which is that there’s a distinction between the guidance and the law. I will absolutely get back to you with the exact ... ” before his words became inaudible.

Asked four times whether a household in the affected area could visit someone who was not, he then said: “No because that is against the advice but the point I was making is about the specifics of the law, which is that this law applies to people who are in the affected area.”

When are they all going to resign in disgrace? I once quit a job in shame and embarrassment because I was 4 days late with a database I was programming.

I had the flu and couldn't lift my arms and couldn't look at a computer screen without having a blinding headache.
But hey a deadline is a deadline.


They have given us the highest excess death rate in Europe, and they are still there allowed to bullshit us.

Line6 HXFX wrote: ↑Fri Jul 31, 2020 3:42 pm When are they all going to resign in disgrace? I once quit a job in shame and embarrassment because I was 4 days late with a database I was programming.

I had the flu and couldn't lift my arms and couldn't look at a computer screen without having a blinding headache.
But hey a deadline is a deadline.


They have given us the highest excess death rate in Europe, and they are still there allowed to bullshit us.

You fell on your sword for a 4 day late it project.

Are you for real?

Ymx wrote: ↑Fri Jul 31, 2020 5:12 pm

Line6 HXFX wrote: ↑Fri Jul 31, 2020 3:42 pm When are they all going to resign in disgrace? I once quit a job in shame and embarrassment because I was 4 days late with a database I was programming.

I had the flu and couldn't lift my arms and couldn't look at a computer screen without having a blinding headache.
But hey a deadline is a deadline.


They have given us the highest excess death rate in Europe, and they are still there allowed to bullshit us.

You fell on your sword for a 4 day late it project.

Are you for real?

No, it’s complete bollocks. You’ll get used to it from REFRY

In ither news, the Jenner vaccine was approved for hase III trials in India today, in addition to UK, USA, and Brazil. All about collecting data

Saint wrote: ↑Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:06 pm In ither news, the Jenner vaccine was approved for hase III trials in India today, in addition to UK, USA, and Brazil. All about collecting data

Fingers crossed for that one - we really need a decent vaccine and soon. Judging by the UK news today - with Whitty saying we've already reached the limits of how much we can relax conditions without losing control - and schools due to open in Sept. Sounds like it could be a very tough winter.

Ovals wrote: ↑Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:00 pm

Saint wrote: ↑Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:06 pm In ither news, the Jenner vaccine was approved for hase III trials in India today, in addition to UK, USA, and Brazil. All about collecting data

Fingers crossed for that one - we really need a decent vaccine and soon. Judging by the UK news today - with Whitty saying we've already reached the limits of how much we can relax conditions without losing control - and schools due to open in Sept. Sounds like it could be a very tough winter.

My real takeaway from that was that the population can't be trusted to observe the rules as they get relaxed. Effectively there's an enormous percentage of the population that when offered a foot will take a mile.

Listening to people complaining about being relocked on R5L this afternoon I can see his point. We could go a long way further if percentage of people weren't so desperate to stretch the guidelines beyond breaking point

Ovals wrote: ↑Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:00 pm

Saint wrote: ↑Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:06 pm In ither news, the Jenner vaccine was approved for hase III trials in India today, in addition to UK, USA, and Brazil. All about collecting data

Fingers crossed for that one - we really need a decent vaccine and soon. Judging by the UK news today - with Whitty saying we've already reached the limits of how much we can relax conditions without losing control - and schools due to open in Sept. Sounds like it could be a very tough winter.

I think it's the situation that a lot of countries are in; they've hit a steady state of cases, & deaths; & they've done as much relaxation of the controls that they can do to maintain that state.

For any significant change, e.g. opening schools; or turning on more of the Economy; they need a vaccine; or else there's going to be an explosion in the number of people getting infected.

Saint wrote: ↑Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:06 pm

My real takeaway from that was that the population can't be trusted to observe the rules as they get relaxed. Effectively there's an enormous percentage of the population that when offered a foot will take a mile.

Listening to people complaining about being relocked on R5L this afternoon I can see his point. We could go a long way further if percentage of people weren't so desperate to stretch the guidelines beyond breaking point

That’s my impression of how the resurgence sparked off in Melbourne and now Sydney.

People aren’t all taking this seriously. I have my weeks off work in Adelaide and everyone here is complacent to the max. I understand the fatigue factor, but it’s going to undo all the hard work already done, and governments really need to commit to serious containment and public health over economies.

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2020 ... lic-health
Kushner is a kunt

About sums up the lunacy that is the current state of affairs in USA

Ymx wrote: ↑Fri Jul 31, 2020 5:12 pm

Line6 HXFX wrote: ↑Fri Jul 31, 2020 3:42 pm When are they all going to resign in disgrace? I once quit a job in shame and embarrassment because I was 4 days late with a database I was programming.

I had the flu and couldn't lift my arms and couldn't look at a computer screen without having a blinding headache.
But hey a deadline is a deadline.


They have given us the highest excess death rate in Europe, and they are still there allowed to bullshit us.

You fell on your sword for a 4 day late it project.

Are you for real?

Yup, worked for social services as a temp,, we had a joint review team (back when the government used to actually audit social services) in the basement assessing us, and a SSID (social services information database) that was completely shite (the social workers didn't want to use or understand it as childrens information is protected by law and errors could mean their jobs),. They (the audit team) ran a query on the system and found out that we had 12 kids in care, so basically all of the information used by social services was inaccurate (the expensive system they paid 200 thousand quid for) wasn't being used properely, and so not only did I have to repair the information, I had to design a entire childrens looked after database, when I discovered the info they had in children, that they couldn't input was wrong and wouldn't get passed the data validation on the current system.
You had stuff like date of birth recorded after date taken into care etc. Computer says no.
Tried my best to do a new system in time, tried too hard, came down with flu, and quit, basically deeply suspicious that I was being made a scapegoat for the whole fuck up....as a temp. So resigned, a couple of days after the deadline when the audit team were eating the department alive.

This is what taking responsibility looks like. You haven't seen it in ten years from our government,


....Lots of edits, to protect the innocent. Sorry.

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Fri Jul 31, 2020 7:06 pm

Ymx wrote: ↑Fri Jul 31, 2020 5:12 pm

Line6 HXFX wrote: ↑Fri Jul 31, 2020 3:42 pm When are they all going to resign in disgrace? I once quit a job in shame and embarrassment because I was 4 days late with a database I was programming.

I had the flu and couldn't lift my arms and couldn't look at a computer screen without having a blinding headache.
But hey a deadline is a deadline.


They have given us the highest excess death rate in Europe, and they are still there allowed to bullshit us.

You fell on your sword for a 4 day late it project.

Are you for real?

No, it’s complete bollocks. You’ll get used to it from REFRY

And so the dehumanisation begins.

I don't know who you, are or what you think I am in that messed up head of yours, or what you think I have done to you but you keep stalking me with slanderous shite, and I will report you. I have been nice and respectful to you. Your shit is not warranted.
I cannot spend 24 hours a day here defending myself from weird slanderous, personally abusive arsewipes like you, I am extremely busy.
This is why we have rules against such things. It is easy to throw out a wild speculative accusation, but hard and extremely time consuming to put them back in the box, only for the response to be something shitty like "he doth protest too much".
Who has time for this shit?
I don't have the time, this is why we have mods. If you don't respect me, don't talk to me, believe me, i'll live.

Cheers.

The pub or school?
That's the choice apparently.
England seemed to be doing ok up until this week.
Are people getting infected because they are following the rules or because they are not following the rules. If the latter; then follow the flipping rules.

Longshanks wrote: ↑Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:17 pm The pub or school?
That's the choice apparently.
England seemed to be doing ok up until this week.
Are people getting infected because they are following the rules or because they are not following the rules. If the latter; then follow the flipping rules.

England has the highest excess deaths in Europe.

Frankly the rules are so vague, they are designed to blame people for not following them.

When politics meets science, politics wins.

Line6 HXFX wrote: ↑Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:24 pm

Longshanks wrote: ↑Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:17 pm The pub or school?
That's the choice apparently.
England seemed to be doing ok up until this week.
Are people getting infected because they are following the rules or because they are not following the rules. If the latter; then follow the flipping rules.

England has the highest excess deaths in Europe.

Frankly the rules are so vague, they are designed to blame people for not following them.

When politics meets science, politics wins.

You've answered a question I didn't ask.

And if you do need help in following the rules
Here you go
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... nd-cant-do