NPR

Biffer wrote: ↑Thu Jun 16, 2022 2:48 pm

weegie01 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 16, 2022 2:37 pm My head is about to explode working out the Champions Cup format. Please tell if I have this right.

There are 2 pools of 12.

Tier one and tier 4 from each league play the teams not in their league home and away.

So Edinburgh play tier one and two Premiership, and one and two Top14 home and away.

That is Castres, Montpellier, Leicester and Saracens.

Easy, peasy.

Edinburgh are Tier 4. So they play the two teams who are Tier 1 in their group who are not from their 'domestic' League. So One English, One French. The English team will be either Leicester or Saracens. The French Team will be one of the two teams in the final of the Top14.

weegie01 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 16, 2022 3:10 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Thu Jun 16, 2022 2:48 pm

weegie01 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 16, 2022 2:37 pm My head is about to explode working out the Champions Cup format. Please tell if I have this right.

There are 2 pools of 12.

Tier one and tier 4 from each league play the teams not in their league home and away.

So Edinburgh play tier one and two Premiership, and one and two Top14 home and away.

That is Castres, Montpellier, Leicester and Saracens.

Easy, peasy.

Edinburgh are Tier 4. So they play the two teams who are Tier 1 in their group who are not from their 'domestic' League. So One English, One French. The English team will be either Leicester or Saracens. The French Team will be one of the two teams in the final of the Top14.

I read it and still got it wrong. Yes it is tier 1 v 4, 2 v 3, so we 'only' have tier one to worry about.

I thought it was league places not the finalists that decided ranking, so Castres and Leicester. Hopefully you are correct and we end up with Montpellier. Though I have never been to Castres, which may be lovely. I am not thinking about going to Englandshire for either of those clubs.

Biffer wrote: ↑Thu Jun 16, 2022 3:19 pm

weegie01 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 16, 2022 3:10 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Thu Jun 16, 2022 2:48 pm

Edinburgh are Tier 4. So they play the two teams who are Tier 1 in their group who are not from their 'domestic' League. So One English, One French. The English team will be either Leicester or Saracens. The French Team will be one of the two teams in the final of the Top14.

I read it and still got it wrong. Yes it is tier 1 v 4, 2 v 3, so we 'only' have tier one to worry about.

I thought it was league places not the finalists that decided ranking, so Castres and Leicester. Hopefully you are correct and we end up with Montpellier. Though I have never been to Castres, which may be lovely. I am not thinking about going to Englandshire for either of those clubs.

It's Tier 1 so can be either the 1st or 2nd seed from each country. And so far as I understand it the winner of each is the top seed. Same both ways for England, it's one of those two. Prefer Leicester for a rugby weekend and atmosphere though.

Was over in Montpellier the last time, had a great weekend. Happy with any one of the four in the semi finals tbh, would all be great trips.

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Thu Jun 16, 2022 9:44 am Also, Todd Blackadder to Glasgow heavily rumoured including Mark Palmer in the Times.

Biffer wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 10:01 am Hastings out of the summer tour with a hamstring injury. So Kinghorn at ten it seems.

Interesting to see if Fin Smith gets the call now though.

Huw Jones also out. So FB is very open too

Biffer wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 10:01 am Hastings out of the summer tour with a hamstring injury. So Kinghorn at ten it seems.

Interesting to see if Fin Smith gets the call now though.

Huw Jones also out. So FB is very open too

Jock42 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 16, 2022 6:25 pm

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Thu Jun 16, 2022 9:44 am Also, Todd Blackadder to Glasgow heavily rumoured including Mark Palmer in the Times.

Not sure about that as an appointment. The same with Horne although I've been wrong about Toonie and Blair so clearly I know fuck all

Big D wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 11:28 am

Jock42 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 16, 2022 6:25 pm

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Thu Jun 16, 2022 9:44 am Also, Todd Blackadder to Glasgow heavily rumoured including Mark Palmer in the Times.

Not sure about that as an appointment. The same with Horne although I've been wrong about Toonie and Blair so clearly I know fuck all

I am not a fan of the Horne appointment, purely because the new HC isn't in place. By all means we should be encouraging Scottish coaches being involved but at least give the new HC a choice of Scot.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 12:32 pm

Big D wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 11:28 am

Jock42 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 16, 2022 6:25 pm

Not sure about that as an appointment. The same with Horne although I've been wrong about Toonie and Blair so clearly I know fuck all

I am not a fan of the Horne appointment, purely because the new HC isn't in place. By all means we should be encouraging Scottish coaches being involved but at least give the new HC a choice of Scot.

The skills coach job was on the SRU website for sometime and the salary was 40k. Not sure any HC will be bringing one across for what's quite a low value position.

Big D wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 2:22 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 12:32 pm

Big D wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 11:28 am

I am not a fan of the Horne appointment, purely because the new HC isn't in place. By all means we should be encouraging Scottish coaches being involved but at least give the new HC a choice of Scot.

The skills coach job was on the SRU website for sometime and the salary was 40k. Not sure any HC will be bringing one across for what's quite a low value position.

It isn't so much the value or who it is but not giving the new coach some choice even if it had parameters, especially when the HC will be in post soon. Mike Blair was in place before he hired his skills coach. Don't see why this role had to be any different.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 2:33 pm

Big D wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 2:22 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 12:32 pm

The skills coach job was on the SRU website for sometime and the salary was 40k. Not sure any HC will be bringing one across for what's quite a low value position.

It isn't so much the value or who it is but not giving the new coach some choice even if it had parameters, especially when the HC will be in post soon. Mike Blair was in place before he hired his skills coach. Don't see why this role had to be any different.

Barber is also Edinburgh's attack coach isn't he? Blair, Cockers, Rennie were all given a lot of coaches or inherited them. The SRU aren't in the business of paying off assistant coaches.

Could be any number of reasons - quality of applicants, Horne was hired before Wilson was fired etc. Ultimately I doubt any coach will be so upset with a skills coach hiring it makes the job less (or more appealing). And when working with Glasgow or Edinburgh you have to accept a significant amount of SRU involvement anyway. You don't really control who your players are or who your coaches are. You coach with what you're given. That's the job for better or worse.

Biffer wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 2:45 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 2:33 pm

Big D wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 2:22 pm

It isn't so much the value or who it is but not giving the new coach some choice even if it had parameters, especially when the HC will be in post soon. Mike Blair was in place before he hired his skills coach. Don't see why this role had to be any different.

Barber is also Edinburgh's attack coach isn't he? Blair, Cockers, Rennie were all given a lot of coaches or inherited them. The SRU aren't in the business of paying off assistant coaches.

Could be any number of reasons - quality of applicants, Horne was hired before Wilson was fired etc. Ultimately I doubt any coach will be so upset with a skills coach hiring it makes the job less (or more appealing). And when working with Glasgow or Edinburgh you have to accept a significant amount of SRU involvement anyway. You don't really control who your players are or who your coaches are. You coach with what you're given. That's the job for better or worse.

More that if the incoming coach considers it one of his areas, and he has a limited number of assistants, he may want to use that position as something else e.g. breakdown or lineout coach.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 2:33 pm

Big D wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 2:22 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 12:32 pm

The skills coach job was on the SRU website for sometime and the salary was 40k. Not sure any HC will be bringing one across for what's quite a low value position.

It isn't so much the value or who it is but not giving the new coach some choice even if it had parameters, especially when the HC will be in post soon. Mike Blair was in place before he hired his skills coach. Don't see why this role had to be any different.

Barber is also Edinburgh's attack coach isn't he? Blair, Cockers, Rennie were all given a lot of coaches or inherited them. The SRU aren't in the business of paying off assistant coaches.

Could be any number of reasons - quality of applicants, Horne was hired before Wilson was fired etc. Ultimately I doubt any coach will be so upset with a skills coach hiring it makes the job less (or more appealing). And when working with Glasgow or Edinburgh you have to accept a significant amount of SRU involvement anyway. You don't really control who your players are or who your coaches are. You coach with what you're given. That's the job for better or worse.

Big D wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 5:34 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 2:33 pm

Big D wrote: ↑Fri Jun 17, 2022 2:22 pm

It isn't so much the value or who it is but not giving the new coach some choice even if it had parameters, especially when the HC will be in post soon. Mike Blair was in place before he hired his skills coach. Don't see why this role had to be any different.

Barber is also Edinburgh's attack coach isn't he? Blair, Cockers, Rennie were all given a lot of coaches or inherited them. The SRU aren't in the business of paying off assistant coaches.

Could be any number of reasons - quality of applicants, Horne was hired before Wilson was fired etc. Ultimately I doubt any coach will be so upset with a skills coach hiring it makes the job less (or more appealing). And when working with Glasgow or Edinburgh you have to accept a significant amount of SRU involvement anyway. You don't really control who your players are or who your coaches are. You coach with what you're given. That's the job for better or worse.

"Skills and assistant attack" coach. Whatever that really means.

I have no qualms on SRU exerting a lot of control on coaches but there should be some leeway within that control IMO. As it stands the incoming HC has no control at all over his staff including one non Scot. Was daft that Edinburgh kept Hodge on under Cockerill too. It is rarely just the HC that is the issue at clubs.

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Sat Jun 18, 2022 8:14 am It’s a quite uniquely ‘sports’ thing the concept of firing and hiring full management teams at once. It’s actually quite odd when you think about it. I can imagine the hilarity if I tried to bring in an entirely new management team every time I moved jobs, especially when I had made zero attempt to utilise the existing team effectively.

Regardless of what they are doing every day, be it engineers, doctors or sportspeople, a good manager should be able to get the best out of their existing team. Allowing them to use excuses around the quality of junior/middle managers shouldn’t be accepted. I think the SRU stance here is correct; if there is a vacancy then by all means give the manager say/oversight, otherwise they inherit and deal with what is already there.

Jock42 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 18, 2022 2:04 pm

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Sat Jun 18, 2022 8:14 am It’s a quite uniquely ‘sports’ thing the concept of firing and hiring full management teams at once. It’s actually quite odd when you think about it. I can imagine the hilarity if I tried to bring in an entirely new management team every time I moved jobs, especially when I had made zero attempt to utilise the existing team effectively.

Regardless of what they are doing every day, be it engineers, doctors or sportspeople, a good manager should be able to get the best out of their existing team. Allowing them to use excuses around the quality of junior/middle managers shouldn’t be accepted. I think the SRU stance here is correct; if there is a vacancy then by all means give the manager say/oversight, otherwise they inherit and deal with what is already there.

I'd be quite happy if my entire managerial team was changed tbh

Biffer wrote: ↑Sun Jun 19, 2022 7:37 am So Edinburgh will have game against either Leicester or Sarries, and against either Montpellier or Castres.

High profile games coming to the DAM. Nice wee trip to France, I’d enjoy a trip to Leicester, Saracens meh.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Sun Jun 19, 2022 8:00 am

Biffer wrote: ↑Sun Jun 19, 2022 7:37 am So Edinburgh will have game against either Leicester or Sarries, and against either Montpellier or Castres.

High profile games coming to the DAM. Nice wee trip to France, I’d enjoy a trip to Leicester, Saracens meh.

Sarries is an excellent set up though. If Edinburgh get Sarries the SRU should be down to the stoneX to see how they've done it. Players run drinks companies - like Damo's coffee at the dam tbf - really good food outlets. Convenient place to stay before and after the match to increase revenue. It's a good place to watch rugby.

mos_eisely_ wrote: ↑Sun Jun 19, 2022 8:08 am

I like neeps wrote: ↑Sun Jun 19, 2022 8:00 am

Biffer wrote: ↑Sun Jun 19, 2022 7:37 am So Edinburgh will have game against either Leicester or Sarries, and against either Montpellier or Castres.

High profile games coming to the DAM. Nice wee trip to France, I’d enjoy a trip to Leicester, Saracens meh.

Sarries is an excellent set up though. If Edinburgh get Sarries the SRU should be down to the stoneX to see how they've done it. Players run drinks companies - like Damo's coffee at the dam tbf - really good food outlets. Convenient place to stay before and after the match to increase revenue. It's a good place to watch rugby.

We played Sarries at the StoneX this season, and the consensus I heard from everyone who made the away trip was that their stadium was pretty crap and souless.

Weren't the Sarries players run companies part of what helped them evade salary cap?

SaintK wrote: ↑Sun Jun 19, 2022 8:06 am The Rugby Paper reporting that Blackadder has cooled on the idea of of the Glasgow job. They are evidently in talks with Dean Richards now!!

mos_eisely_ wrote: ↑Sun Jun 19, 2022 8:08 am

I like neeps wrote: ↑Sun Jun 19, 2022 8:00 am

Biffer wrote: ↑Sun Jun 19, 2022 7:37 am So Edinburgh will have game against either Leicester or Sarries, and against either Montpellier or Castres.

High profile games coming to the DAM. Nice wee trip to France, I’d enjoy a trip to Leicester, Saracens meh.

Sarries is an excellent set up though. If Edinburgh get Sarries the SRU should be down to the stoneX to see how they've done it. Players run drinks companies - like Damo's coffee at the dam tbf - really good food outlets. Convenient place to stay before and after the match to increase revenue. It's a good place to watch rugby.

We played Sarries at the StoneX this season, and the consensus I heard from everyone who made the away trip was that their stadium was pretty crap and souless.

Weren't the Sarries players run companies part of what helped them evade salary cap?

Biffer wrote: ↑Sun Jun 19, 2022 9:43 am

mos_eisely_ wrote: ↑Sun Jun 19, 2022 8:08 am

I like neeps wrote: ↑Sun Jun 19, 2022 8:00 am

Sarries is an excellent set up though. If Edinburgh get Sarries the SRU should be down to the stoneX to see how they've done it. Players run drinks companies - like Damo's coffee at the dam tbf - really good food outlets. Convenient place to stay before and after the match to increase revenue. It's a good place to watch rugby.

We played Sarries at the StoneX this season, and the consensus I heard from everyone who made the away trip was that their stadium was pretty crap and souless.

Weren't the Sarries players run companies part of what helped them evade salary cap?

This is the consensus I’ve heard from most visiting fans. Little atmosphere, fans aren’t much crack, miles away from the nearest tube station etc. I mean I’d probably still go but I’d rather have a weekend in Leicester. Not a phrase I thought I’d ever say.

SaintK wrote: ↑Sun Jun 19, 2022 10:02 am

Biffer wrote: ↑Sun Jun 19, 2022 9:43 am

mos_eisely_ wrote: ↑Sun Jun 19, 2022 8:08 am

We played Sarries at the StoneX this season, and the consensus I heard from everyone who made the away trip was that their stadium was pretty crap and souless.

Weren't the Sarries players run companies part of what helped them evade salary cap?

This is the consensus I’ve heard from most visiting fans. Little atmosphere, fans aren’t much crack, miles away from the nearest tube station etc. I mean I’d probably still go but I’d rather have a weekend in Leicester. Not a phrase I thought I’d ever say.

Mill Hill East is less than 2 miles away
Hendon Central is just over 2 miles away
I've been a few times, the fans seem about the same as any other club.
What is souless are the rows and rows of empty seats at the football stadiums that Wasps and Bristol play in

I like neeps wrote: ↑Sun Jun 19, 2022 10:22 am

SaintK wrote: ↑Sun Jun 19, 2022 10:02 am

Biffer wrote: ↑Sun Jun 19, 2022 9:43 am

This is the consensus I’ve heard from most visiting fans. Little atmosphere, fans aren’t much crack, miles away from the nearest tube station etc. I mean I’d probably still go but I’d rather have a weekend in Leicester. Not a phrase I thought I’d ever say.

Mill Hill East is less than 2 miles away
Hendon Central is just over 2 miles away
I've been a few times, the fans seem about the same as any other club.
What is souless are the rows and rows of empty seats at the football stadiums that Wasps and Bristol play in

Agreed. Atmosphere at sports games is very much dependant on the spectacle. Glasgow spend ages talking about the atmosphere at Scotstoun. Now the team aren't very good - the atmosphere isn't either. Coincidence? No.

However - I did not mention atmosphere in what the SRU should copy - they should copy the set up which I still believe. Sarries have fostered a community between the players and the fans. Yes they cheated, no the stoneX isn't going to be confused for La Bombonera. But even the non cheating Sarries have continued that spirit. Something definitely Glasgow lost and Edinburgh to their credit are building. I like walking around the StoneX and seeing player and community led initiatives and businesses. Scottish rugby could do more of that. Just like my trip to the DAM I enjoyed Damo's coffee - it's good to have that stuff and Sarries do it better than any ground I've been to. It's especially good for a team who maybe lacks that history like a Leicester/Bath/Gloucester and their storied stadiums.

Biffer wrote: ↑Sun Jun 19, 2022 10:34 am

I like neeps wrote: ↑Sun Jun 19, 2022 10:22 am

SaintK wrote: ↑Sun Jun 19, 2022 10:02 am
Mill Hill East is less than 2 miles away
Hendon Central is just over 2 miles away
I've been a few times, the fans seem about the same as any other club.
What is souless are the rows and rows of empty seats at the football stadiums that Wasps and Bristol play in

Agreed. Atmosphere at sports games is very much dependant on the spectacle. Glasgow spend ages talking about the atmosphere at Scotstoun. Now the team aren't very good - the atmosphere isn't either. Coincidence? No.

However - I did not mention atmosphere in what the SRU should copy - they should copy the set up which I still believe. Sarries have fostered a community between the players and the fans. Yes they cheated, no the stoneX isn't going to be confused for La Bombonera. But even the non cheating Sarries have continued that spirit. Something definitely Glasgow lost and Edinburgh to their credit are building. I like walking around the StoneX and seeing player and community led initiatives and businesses. Scottish rugby could do more of that. Just like my trip to the DAM I enjoyed Damo's coffee - it's good to have that stuff and Sarries do it better than any ground I've been to. It's especially good for a team who maybe lacks that history like a Leicester/Bath/Gloucester and their storied stadiums.

To be honest, former Sarries players owning food stalls doesn’t give me much desire to go to StoneX, which was what my original post was about.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Sun Jun 19, 2022 9:26 am

SaintK wrote: ↑Sun Jun 19, 2022 8:06 am The Rugby Paper reporting that Blackadder has cooled on the idea of of the Glasgow job. They are evidently in talks with Dean Richards now!!

Richards, Mallinder, all we need is Cockerill to return and the band is back together!

A year of Richards to get standards back up and then John Dalziel is given the role wouldn't be awful. Wouldn't be great either mind.

Big D wrote: ↑Mon Jun 20, 2022 9:32 am

I like neeps wrote: ↑Sun Jun 19, 2022 9:26 am

SaintK wrote: ↑Sun Jun 19, 2022 8:06 am The Rugby Paper reporting that Blackadder has cooled on the idea of of the Glasgow job. They are evidently in talks with Dean Richards now!!

Richards, Mallinder, all we need is Cockerill to return and the band is back together!

A year of Richards to get standards back up and then John Dalziel is given the role wouldn't be awful. Wouldn't be great either mind.

That frustrates me a little. Sides are now beginning to trust younger coaches, Borthwick, Skivington, Sanderson, Blair etc and most of them are making a pretty good fist of it. Granted there are the Hoopers of the world too but Richards has been around the bottom of the league for years and even allowing for them having a small budget hasn't had much that could be called a success in the last few years except winning the championship.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Mon Jun 20, 2022 10:54 am

Big D wrote: ↑Mon Jun 20, 2022 9:32 am

I like neeps wrote: ↑Sun Jun 19, 2022 9:26 am

Richards, Mallinder, all we need is Cockerill to return and the band is back together!

A year of Richards to get standards back up and then John Dalziel is given the role wouldn't be awful. Wouldn't be great either mind.

That frustrates me a little. Sides are now beginning to trust younger coaches, Borthwick, Skivington, Sanderson, Blair etc and most of them are making a pretty good fist of it. Granted there are the Hoopers of the world too but Richards has been around the bottom of the league for years and even allowing for them having a small budget hasn't had much that could be called a success in the last few years except winning the championship.

Agree but the only young coach in Scotland who has earned his stripes is Dalziel and because it's world cup year he's likely off limits.

I reckon best case for the SRU would have been Wilson leaves next year and Dalziel replaced him.

Biffer wrote: ↑Mon Jun 20, 2022 2:11 pm away to Benetton on the 9th