The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

[Jock42]

Just catching up. Not much more to add other than my dismay at 12, 15, 23

[Yr Alban]

Just catching up. Not much more to add other than my dismay at 12, 15, 23

I’ve a horrible creeping feeling about this tour. A year or two ago we felt like a team on the up. Now we really don’t.

We have a place in Embra now, so I need to start looking at what games I could make, but I’m not feeling enthused right now.

[Jock42]

Just catching up. Not much more to add other than my dismay at 12, 15, 23

I’ve a horrible creeping feeling about this tour. A year or two ago we felt like a team on the up. Now we really don’t.

We have a place in Embra now, so I need to start looking at what games I could make, but I’m not feeling enthused right now.

Aye can see it being a 3 nil drubbing.

Still haven't managed to make the new stadium. Should have a bit more free time next season though.

[Biffer]

I think we all thought we were light in the back three when we saw the squad and this is proof of that. 4 of the back 6 slots in the squad are centres.

[Slick]

I know this is a slightly unpopular view but a lot of this is down to the insistence that our second best 15 is our stand off of the future.

It happens at Edinburgh as well where the whole backline has to be comprised to accommodate a 10 that can’t kick or defend in that position very well.

Anyway, I’ve vowed to stfu during this series on this subject as it will get boring and I genuinely do wish him the best.

Disappointed Smith hasn’t been given a run and a show of confidence, but maybe they don’t trust his goal kicking either

[Big D]

I think we all thought we were light in the back three when we saw the squad and this is proof of that. 4 of the back 6 slots in the squad are centres.

I think it is specifically 15 we are light it. McLean and Rowe provide plenty wing cover. There is little reason one of them could have been on the bench ahead of ST assuming both fit. Rowe has certainly merited a look.

I know this is a slightly unpopular view but a lot of this is down to the insistence that our second best 15 is our stand off of the future.

It happens at Edinburgh as well where the whole backline has to be comprised to accommodate a 10 that can’t kick or defend in that position very well.

Anyway, I’ve vowed to stfu during this series on this subject as it will get boring and I genuinely do wish him the best.

Disappointed Smith hasn’t been given a run and a show of confidence, but maybe they don’t trust his goal kicking either

The problem is that our second best 15 is clearly the best available 10 at present.

[Slick]

I think we all thought we were light in the back three when we saw the squad and this is proof of that. 4 of the back 6 slots in the squad are centres.

I think it is specifically 15 we are light it. McLean and Rowe provide plenty wing cover. There is little reason one of them could have been on the bench ahead of ST assuming both fit. Rowe has certainly merited a look.

I know this is a slightly unpopular view but a lot of this is down to the insistence that our second best 15 is our stand off of the future.

It happens at Edinburgh as well where the whole backline has to be comprised to accommodate a 10 that can’t kick or defend in that position very well.

Anyway, I’ve vowed to stfu during this series on this subject as it will get boring and I genuinely do wish him the best.

Disappointed Smith hasn’t been given a run and a show of confidence, but maybe they don’t trust his goal kicking either

The problem is that our second best 15 is clearly the best available 10 at present.

Hastings injury hasn’t helped of course, although as said above he would probably, madly, found himself at 15. I’d rather have Jaco there to be honest. To go into a test match without a kicker is insane

[I like neeps]

I think we all thought we were light in the back three when we saw the squad and this is proof of that. 4 of the back 6 slots in the squad are centres.

I think it is specifically 15 we are light it. McLean and Rowe provide plenty wing cover. There is little reason one of them could have been on the bench ahead of ST assuming both fit. Rowe has certainly merited a look.

I know this is a slightly unpopular view but a lot of this is down to the insistence that our second best 15 is our stand off of the future.

It happens at Edinburgh as well where the whole backline has to be comprised to accommodate a 10 that can’t kick or defend in that position very well.

Anyway, I’ve vowed to stfu during this series on this subject as it will get boring and I genuinely do wish him the best.

Disappointed Smith hasn’t been given a run and a show of confidence, but maybe they don’t trust his goal kicking either

The problem is that our second best 15 is clearly the best available 10 at present.

Hastings injury hasn’t helped of course, although as said above he would probably, madly, found himself at 15. I’d rather have Jaco there to be honest. To go into a test match without a kicker is insane

VdW is a below average club player. Doesn't belong anywhere near an international pitch. May as well call up Duncan Weir.

Kinghorn is the second best fullback we have right now... I don't think Townsend sees him as their heir to Hogg though, otherwise why move him?

[SaintK]

Who’s kicking goals?

Hutchinson and Kinghorn were pictured taking pots at goal, I'd say it will be one of them, Mark Bennett has also taken penalties in the past, but yeah, the best goal kicker playing in Scotland will be lining up for the opposition.

(edit, scratch that, Ross Thompson has a better kicking success rate)

Never seen Hutchinson kick a goal for Saints!!!
TBH never seen him line up at full back to start a match either and only seen him there once for 10 minutes when Furbank was moved to 10 after Biggar went off
Hope he does well, terrific player and one of the form Prem cntres back end of the season.

[Tichtheid]

Who’s kicking goals?

Hutchinson and Kinghorn were pictured taking pots at goal, I'd say it will be one of them, Mark Bennett has also taken penalties in the past, but yeah, the best goal kicker playing in Scotland will be lining up for the opposition.

(edit, scratch that, Ross Thompson has a better kicking success rate)

Never seen Hutchinson kick a goal for Saints!!!
TBH never seen him line up at full back to start a match either and only seen him there once for 10 minutes when Furbank was moved to 10 after Biggar went off
Hope he does well, terrific player and one of the form Prem cntres back end of the season.

ItsRugby have him starting three Premiership league games at 15 during the season just finished, v Tigers, Sale and Glaws. It's a stretch to say he's an international fullback though.

I really rate him and wanted him to be the second playmaker, a Cameron Redpath type inside centre.

Having said that Toonie will probably have him at first receiver a few times during the game, it wouldn't surprise me.

[SaintK]

Hutchinson and Kinghorn were pictured taking pots at goal, I'd say it will be one of them, Mark Bennett has also taken penalties in the past, but yeah, the best goal kicker playing in Scotland will be lining up for the opposition.

(edit, scratch that, Ross Thompson has a better kicking success rate)

Never seen Hutchinson kick a goal for Saints!!!
TBH never seen him line up at full back to start a match either and only seen him there once for 10 minutes when Furbank was moved to 10 after Biggar went off
Hope he does well, terrific player and one of the form Prem cntres back end of the season.

ItsRugby have him starting three Premiership league games at 15 during the season just finished, v Tigers, Sale and Glaws. It's a stretch to say he's an international fullback though.

I really rate him and wanted him to be the second playmaker, a Cameron Redpath type inside centre.

Having said that Toonie will probably have him at first receiver a few times during the game, it wouldn't surprise me.

Thanks, stand corrected. I must have missed those!!!

[I like neeps]

Never seen Hutchinson kick a goal for Saints!!!
TBH never seen him line up at full back to start a match either and only seen him there once for 10 minutes when Furbank was moved to 10 after Biggar went off
Hope he does well, terrific player and one of the form Prem cntres back end of the season.

ItsRugby have him starting three Premiership league games at 15 during the season just finished, v Tigers, Sale and Glaws. It's a stretch to say he's an international fullback though.

I really rate him and wanted him to be the second playmaker, a Cameron Redpath type inside centre.

Having said that Toonie will probably have him at first receiver a few times during the game, it wouldn't surprise me.

Thanks, stand corrected. I must have missed those!!!

Or forced from your memory as Tigers put 50 on saints at the Gardens and Hutch had a nightmare.

[Slick]

Hutchinson and Kinghorn were pictured taking pots at goal, I'd say it will be one of them, Mark Bennett has also taken penalties in the past, but yeah, the best goal kicker playing in Scotland will be lining up for the opposition.

(edit, scratch that, Ross Thompson has a better kicking success rate)

Never seen Hutchinson kick a goal for Saints!!!
TBH never seen him line up at full back to start a match either and only seen him there once for 10 minutes when Furbank was moved to 10 after Biggar went off
Hope he does well, terrific player and one of the form Prem cntres back end of the season.

ItsRugby have him starting three Premiership league games at 15 during the season just finished, v Tigers, Sale and Glaws. It's a stretch to say he's an international fullback though.

I really rate him and wanted him to be the second playmaker, a Cameron Redpath type inside centre.

Having said that Toonie will probably have him at first receiver a few times during the game, it wouldn't surprise me.

Edinburgh do that quite a bit when Jaco is at fullback, Kinghorn drops back on the opposition ball and Jaco comes up

[Oxbow]

To echo the above, Hutchinson did start a few games at fullback when Saints had injuries/were going through the unnecessary phase of trying to turn Furbank into a 10. Let's say his displays were mixed. He's wasted there really and is so much better as a second playmaker. I think I can recall him kicking a couple of goals in games where he shifted to 10 due to injuries, but he'd be some way down the pecking order at Saints.

[SaintK]

ItsRugby have him starting three Premiership league games at 15 during the season just finished, v Tigers, Sale and Glaws. It's a stretch to say he's an international fullback though.

I really rate him and wanted him to be the second playmaker, a Cameron Redpath type inside centre.

Having said that Toonie will probably have him at first receiver a few times during the game, it wouldn't surprise me.

Thanks, stand corrected. I must have missed those!!!

Or forced from your memory as Tigers put 50 on saints at the Gardens and Hutch had a nightmare.

I did watch that match. It was the nadir of the season and things could and did only get better

[Slick]

I think it is specifically 15 we are light it. McLean and Rowe provide plenty wing cover. There is little reason one of them could have been on the bench ahead of ST assuming both fit. Rowe has certainly merited a look.



The problem is that our second best 15 is clearly the best available 10 at present.

Hastings injury hasn’t helped of course, although as said above he would probably, madly, found himself at 15. I’d rather have Jaco there to be honest. To go into a test match without a kicker is insane

VdW is a below average club player. Doesn't belong anywhere near an international pitch. May as well call up Duncan Weir.

Kinghorn is the second best fullback we have right now... I don't think Townsend sees him as their heir to Hogg though, otherwise why move him?

I don’t rate Jaco much but to be fair he has looked decent at both 10 and 15 this year for Edinburgh. Just the thought of going into an away match, against Argentina, without a recognised kicker seems ludicrous. And yes, I’d probably play Weir to be perfectly honest, if nothing more than a goal kicker

[Biffer]

Never seen Hutchinson kick a goal for Saints!!!
TBH never seen him line up at full back to start a match either and only seen him there once for 10 minutes when Furbank was moved to 10 after Biggar went off
Hope he does well, terrific player and one of the form Prem cntres back end of the season.

ItsRugby have him starting three Premiership league games at 15 during the season just finished, v Tigers, Sale and Glaws. It's a stretch to say he's an international fullback though.

I really rate him and wanted him to be the second playmaker, a Cameron Redpath type inside centre.

Having said that Toonie will probably have him at first receiver a few times during the game, it wouldn't surprise me.

Edinburgh do that quite a bit when Jaco is at fullback, Kinghorn drops back on the opposition ball and Jaco comes up

Could definitely see that happening on opposition ball. Hutchinson, Johnson Bennett defending 10-12-13.

[Blackmac]

Bronze is 29 for Arg/Aus, 45 for NZ and 25 and kids for 1 for the Fiji game. Much better value really.

Bronze packages for Aust/Nz are £115 however I see there are only single seats available. Silver packages are £155. It's a lot of cash in the current climate. I know quite a few ex internationals that no longer take up their tickets due to the cost.

That's a bit strange. The one of prices on my club applications are:

Scotland v Aus (adult/U18):
Platinum - £80/£27
Gold - £70/£27
Silver - £45/£22
Bronze £29/£22

Fiji:
P - £55/£25
G - £45/£25
S - £35/£22 (U12's - £1)
B - £25/ £15 (U12's - £1)

NZ:
P - £95/£40
G - £85/£40
S - £65/£30
B - £45/£25

Arg:
P - £74/£27
G - £64/£27
S - £45/£22 (U12's - £1)
B - £29/£22 (U12's - £1)

I'm quoting the public sale prices on the SRU website. Presumably a discount fur club members, but roughly 40% does seem a lot.

[I like neeps]

To echo the above, Hutchinson did start a few games at fullback when Saints had injuries/were going through the unnecessary phase of trying to turn Furbank into a 10. Let's say his displays were mixed. He's wasted there really and is so much better as a second playmaker. I think I can recall him kicking a couple of goals in games where he shifted to 10 due to injuries, but he'd be some way down the pecking order at Saints.

For Scotland our second playmaker is usually Stuart Hogg at 15 so I presume that's why Hutch is there.

[Big D]

Bronze packages for Aust/Nz are £115 however I see there are only single seats available. Silver packages are £155. It's a lot of cash in the current climate. I know quite a few ex internationals that no longer take up their tickets due to the cost.

That's a bit strange. The one of prices on my club applications are:

Scotland v Aus (adult/U18):
Platinum - £80/£27
Gold - £70/£27
Silver - £45/£22
Bronze £29/£22

Fiji:
P - £55/£25
G - £45/£25
S - £35/£22 (U12's - £1)
B - £25/ £15 (U12's - £1)

NZ:
P - £95/£40
G - £85/£40
S - £65/£30
B - £45/£25

Arg:
P - £74/£27
G - £64/£27
S - £45/£22 (U12's - £1)
B - £29/£22 (U12's - £1)

I'm quoting the public sale prices on the SRU website. Presumably a discount fur club members, but roughly 40% does seem a lot.

Just had a look, gold packages are 155.

[Blackmac]

That's a bit strange. The one of prices on my club applications are:

Scotland v Aus (adult/U18):
Platinum - £80/£27
Gold - £70/£27
Silver - £45/£22
Bronze £29/£22

Fiji:
P - £55/£25
G - £45/£25
S - £35/£22 (U12's - £1)
B - £25/ £15 (U12's - £1)

NZ:
P - £95/£40
G - £85/£40
S - £65/£30
B - £45/£25

Arg:
P - £74/£27
G - £64/£27
S - £45/£22 (U12's - £1)
B - £29/£22 (U12's - £1)

I'm quoting the public sale prices on the SRU website. Presumably a discount fur club members, but roughly 40% does seem a lot.

Just had a look, gold packages are 155.

Yeah, apologies, my mistake.

[KingBlairhorn]

Jesus, our u20s are in some state. 12 losses on the trot now and a proper shellacking in a large proportion of them. We are miles behind at that level for some reason where just a few years ago we were extremely competitive. There’s a strong likelihood we will be beaten by Georgia now and finish bottom of the group with zero wins. Add to that our relegation from the world group at the World Cup and there is very little cheer to be had.

Individually some of our players are excellent, what on earth is going so wrong when they come together?

[Biffer]

That's a bit strange. The one of prices on my club applications are:

Scotland v Aus (adult/U18):
Platinum - £80/£27
Gold - £70/£27
Silver - £45/£22
Bronze £29/£22

Fiji:
P - £55/£25
G - £45/£25
S - £35/£22 (U12's - £1)
B - £25/ £15 (U12's - £1)

NZ:
P - £95/£40
G - £85/£40
S - £65/£30
B - £45/£25

Arg:
P - £74/£27
G - £64/£27
S - £45/£22 (U12's - £1)
B - £29/£22 (U12's - £1)

I'm quoting the public sale prices on the SRU website. Presumably a discount fur club members, but roughly 40% does seem a lot.

Just had a look, gold packages are 155.

Bronze Season Pass for all seven games £313

[Jock42]

Hogg, with 93 Scotland caps and a record 26 international tries, has been an inspirational figure for the national side for over a decade and it would be daft to expect Hutchinson to replicate what the Exeter Chiefs full-back does but Townsend believes he can perform a “very similar” role in terms of joining the attack and linking with stand-off Blair Kinghorn.

“We see him as a second receiver, ball carrier and a very good kicker,” the coach said of Hutchinson. “He fits in with what we see from our full backs, and we know he can cover 10 too. Like all of our backs, we want Rory on the ball as much as possible.

“In games for Northampton this year, he gets 15-20 touches which is very unusual for a centre. Normally the tens hover around 30-40 touches, the 15s are next with between 15-20 and the centres will be doing well to get 10 touches.

“A lot of the game goes through Rory at Northampton and he’ll naturally get a lot of the game at the weekend. There are a lot of kicks in international rugby so he’ll have to make decisions with what he does with that ball. Once we get into our phase play, we certainly want to see him getting in there as first or second receiver.

“If that is because Blair has taken the ball to the line, and been in contact, then great, because that’s what we want to encourage him to do.”

[Big D]

Jesus, our u20s are in some state. 12 losses on the trot now and a proper shellacking in a large proportion of them. We are miles behind at that level for some reason where just a few years ago we were extremely competitive. There’s a strong likelihood we will be beaten by Georgia now and finish bottom of the group with zero wins. Add to that our relegation from the world group at the World Cup and there is very little cheer to be had.

Individually some of our players are excellent, what on earth is going so wrong when they come together?

We (the general game in this country) don't take the 20s seriously.

The SRU don't mandate the use of u20s in S6,, or if they do it isn't enough. So there aren't enough u20s playing high enough level senior rugby.

Coaching isnt good enough for the U20s. Kenny Murray spent how many years bouncing around the Glasgow back room team then did defence for a bit. His new role is strategic and about player transition. Is he the best person for u20s head coach? Shade Munro has been an academy manager for 3 years rather than coaching. Rob Chrystie has remit for 15 players in his "day job", how is that keeping thm sharp as a coaches?*

I don't think it is a surprise we are producing more back rowers than other positions and the odd back 3 player. The athletic players are drawn to those positions because they are all action. We have back rowers coming out our lugs and I'd bet that is more because of athletic talent than the academy coaching/level of game time.

Being uncompetitive would be ok if we were still getting 3 or 4 good players across different positions per group but we aren't.

*not 100% on this so happy to retract if need be.

[Big D]

Sorry that might be a bit ranty. Long day at work.

[I like neeps]

Jesus, our u20s are in some state. 12 losses on the trot now and a proper shellacking in a large proportion of them. We are miles behind at that level for some reason where just a few years ago we were extremely competitive. There’s a strong likelihood we will be beaten by Georgia now and finish bottom of the group with zero wins. Add to that our relegation from the world group at the World Cup and there is very little cheer to be had.

Individually some of our players are excellent, what on earth is going so wrong when they come together?

We (the general game in this country) don't take the 20s seriously.

The SRU don't mandate the use of u20s in S6,, or if they do it isn't enough. So there aren't enough u20s playing high enough level senior rugby.

Coaching isnt good enough for the U20s. Kenny Murray spent how many years bouncing around the Glasgow back room team then did defence for a bit. His new role is strategic and about player transition. Is he the best person for u20s head coach? Shade Munro has been an academy manager for 3 years rather than coaching. Rob Chrystie has remit for 15 players in his "day job", how is that keeping thm sharp as a coaches?*

I don't think it is a surprise we are producing more back rowers than other positions and the odd back 3 player. The athletic players are drawn to those positions because they are all action. We have back rowers coming out our lugs and I'd bet that is more because of athletic talent than the academy coaching/level of game time.

Being uncompetitive would be ok if we were still getting 3 or 4 good players across different positions per group but we aren't.

*not 100% on this so happy to retract if need be.

Agree on the coaching strategy for the u20s the SRU just punt developmental coaches of guys that need a job (Murray, Redpath) which isn't ideal. Like the other nations we need a u20 HC who is a specialist in the youth game. But we have so few coaching pathways I can't see that happening.

And agree about Chrystie his job at Edinburgh is stupid. Why move a good super6 coach out of the super6? I understand Murchie and Horne a bit in they're young high potential coaches but even then. The "you've had a good year at s6, here's a pro job" is stupid and will damage the super6 and you'd think not be good for the coaches either.

There was a table going around twitter a while ago of u20 minutes in the pro game and Scotland were dead last by a distance. I think only Harrison and Brown have actually played pro minutes with Leatherbarrow and Williamson being in around a matchday 23. So guys don't play quality rugby, the super6 is not yet (and may never be) of the required standard. There's certainly less game time on offer at the pro teams as we don't play during international windows anymore and that will have to be monitored.

I don't think this is a good individual crop though. The backs are all at a very poor level skills wise. Kerr Johnstone is 18 playing out of position so he gets a pass. Duncan Munn has shown he's not bad in the s6 but in the u20s he's been a mess. The forwards - Harrison plays better for Edinburgh than the 20s, Norrie and McConnell are 18 so they get a pass too. Williamson is good, Leatherbarrow is good. Tait is fine - he's not at the level Gordon, Crosbie, Boyle and Darge were before him though.

Edinburgh have two stage 3 players in the squad - Rudi Brown looks a concerning case of massive for school boy rugby so played really well but doesn't have the game for adult rugby. And none of their stage 3s that are not u20 eligible which is most of them have played for Edinburgh in the pros - only Brown and Harrison have this year. That isn't good enough. You need stage 3s to be the foundation of the u20s.

[KingBlairhorn]

Agree with most of these posts but I am not sure about mandating the use of U20 players in Super6. I get the point, but if they aren't good enough and bring down the overall quality then are we actually helping develop the standard of rugby, or are we hindering it? It's worrying though if the general semi-pro Super6 standard of player is better than our best U20 players, most of whom train full time.

Banging the drum again, but how do we get more focus onto bringing up the general standard in Scotland of schools rugby - more competition. How do we get more competition - expand outside the small number of Independent Schools that are always at the top of the system. How do we do that? Have a dedicated rugby programme at a few (between 4 and 8) select 'Performance Schools' dotted around the country where the top non Independent Schools boys and girls can go and get real additional training for 4-6 years.

[Big D]

Agree with most of these posts but I am not sure about mandating the use of U20 players in Super6. I get the point, but if they aren't good enough and bring down the overall quality then are we actually helping develop the standard of rugby, or are we hindering it? It's worrying though if the general semi-pro Super6 standard of player is better than our best U20 players, most of whom train full time.

Banging the drum again, but how do we get more focus onto bringing up the general standard in Scotland of schools rugby - more competition. How do we get more competition - expand outside the small number of Independent Schools that are always at the top of the system. How do we do that? Have a dedicated rugby programme at a few (between 4 and 8) select 'Performance Schools' dotted around the country where the top non Independent Schools boys and girls can go and get real additional training for 4-6 years.

I don't think mandating 3 U20's in matchday squads would be overly detrimental. There are several S6 players sprinkled through the U20's I don't asking for 18 of our young talented players even if they are the generation before and 18yo to be included in a competition supposedly about closing the pro to amateur gap is that big a requirement.

Agree about the schools but that requires council and school buy in which is very tough. There would also need to be a fair geographical spread of schools to avoid kids having to travel for hours each day. For example, say Bellbaxter was made a SoR then a kid from Kirkcaldy has a 40mile round trip taking 60-90min of a parents day and fuel etc which not all parents can afford. It is a tricky thing to balance properly to have access to all.

[KingBlairhorn]

Agree with most of these posts but I am not sure about mandating the use of U20 players in Super6. I get the point, but if they aren't good enough and bring down the overall quality then are we actually helping develop the standard of rugby, or are we hindering it? It's worrying though if the general semi-pro Super6 standard of player is better than our best U20 players, most of whom train full time.

Banging the drum again, but how do we get more focus onto bringing up the general standard in Scotland of schools rugby - more competition. How do we get more competition - expand outside the small number of Independent Schools that are always at the top of the system. How do we do that? Have a dedicated rugby programme at a few (between 4 and 8) select 'Performance Schools' dotted around the country where the top non Independent Schools boys and girls can go and get real additional training for 4-6 years.

I don't think mandating 3 U20's in matchday squads would be overly detrimental. There are several S6 players sprinkled through the U20's I don't asking for 18 of our young talented players even if they are the generation before and 18yo to be included in a competition supposedly about closing the pro to amateur gap is that big a requirement.

Agree about the schools but that requires council and school buy in which is very tough. There would also need to be a fair geographical spread of schools to avoid kids having to travel for hours each day. For example, say Bellbaxter was made a SoR then a kid from Kirkcaldy has a 40mile round trip taking 60-90min of a parents day and fuel etc which not all parents can afford. It is a tricky thing to balance properly to have access to all.

Yes, you are probably right if it is balanced that way with a small number required for a match day squad.

The great thing about the schools suggestion is it’s not my idea, it’s the SFA’s idea and it already exists. The councils and schools themselves are already on-board and have been for a decade now, the SRU could piggyback onto the existing programme. Your point about location is fair, but that is an unsolvable problem. You just have to accept that some will not have the chance to participate. You make it as accessible as possible by locating in the largest population centres.

[Big D]

Agree with most of these posts but I am not sure about mandating the use of U20 players in Super6. I get the point, but if they aren't good enough and bring down the overall quality then are we actually helping develop the standard of rugby, or are we hindering it? It's worrying though if the general semi-pro Super6 standard of player is better than our best U20 players, most of whom train full time.

Banging the drum again, but how do we get more focus onto bringing up the general standard in Scotland of schools rugby - more competition. How do we get more competition - expand outside the small number of Independent Schools that are always at the top of the system. How do we do that? Have a dedicated rugby programme at a few (between 4 and 8) select 'Performance Schools' dotted around the country where the top non Independent Schools boys and girls can go and get real additional training for 4-6 years.

I don't think mandating 3 U20's in matchday squads would be overly detrimental. There are several S6 players sprinkled through the U20's I don't asking for 18 of our young talented players even if they are the generation before and 18yo to be included in a competition supposedly about closing the pro to amateur gap is that big a requirement.

Agree about the schools but that requires council and school buy in which is very tough. There would also need to be a fair geographical spread of schools to avoid kids having to travel for hours each day. For example, say Bellbaxter was made a SoR then a kid from Kirkcaldy has a 40mile round trip taking 60-90min of a parents day and fuel etc which not all parents can afford. It is a tricky thing to balance properly to have access to all.

Yes, you are probably right if it is balanced that way with a small number required for a match day squad.

The great thing about the schools suggestion is it’s not my idea, it’s the SFA’s idea and it already exists. The councils and schools themselves are already on-board and have been for a decade now, the SRU could piggyback onto the existing programme. Your point about location is fair, but that is an unsolvable problem. You just have to accept that some will not have the chance to participate. You make it as accessible as possible by locating in the largest population centres.

I wouldn't be so quick to think the councils would buy in immediately, especially if the SRU expected them to put a penny in. In my experience of being involved in many exchanges with councillors when I was on the committee of my club the council are quick to bend over backwards for football due to the number of kids that play it. They wanted to cut DO funding, they have stopped 4G pitches being suitable for rugby matches during the proposal stages and they've failed to follow through on promises to help fund coaches going into schools to have rugby in their PE curriculum/extra curriculum.

Maybe I am scarred by that but they were a pain in the arse to be honest.

[dpedin]

Should we rename this thread The Official Scottish Rugby Union Thread just in case Nadine wanders in for a look? Just asking .... don't want to confuse the poor old dear.

[Slick]

Should we rename this thread The Official Scottish Rugby Union Thread just in case Nadine wanders in for a look? Just asking .... don't want to confuse the poor old dear.

“Scottish” would probably confuse her before she got to rugby

[KingBlairhorn]

I don't think mandating 3 U20's in matchday squads would be overly detrimental. There are several S6 players sprinkled through the U20's I don't asking for 18 of our young talented players even if they are the generation before and 18yo to be included in a competition supposedly about closing the pro to amateur gap is that big a requirement.

Agree about the schools but that requires council and school buy in which is very tough. There would also need to be a fair geographical spread of schools to avoid kids having to travel for hours each day. For example, say Bellbaxter was made a SoR then a kid from Kirkcaldy has a 40mile round trip taking 60-90min of a parents day and fuel etc which not all parents can afford. It is a tricky thing to balance properly to have access to all.

Yes, you are probably right if it is balanced that way with a small number required for a match day squad.

The great thing about the schools suggestion is it’s not my idea, it’s the SFA’s idea and it already exists. The councils and schools themselves are already on-board and have been for a decade now, the SRU could piggyback onto the existing programme. Your point about location is fair, but that is an unsolvable problem. You just have to accept that some will not have the chance to participate. You make it as accessible as possible by locating in the largest population centres.

I wouldn't be so quick to think the councils would buy in immediately, especially if the SRU expected them to put a penny in. In my experience of being involved in many exchanges with councillors when I was on the committee of my club the council are quick to bend over backwards for football due to the number of kids that play it. They wanted to cut DO funding, they have stopped 4G pitches being suitable for rugby matches during the proposal stages and they've failed to follow through on promises to help fund coaches going into schools to have rugby in their PE curriculum/extra curriculum.

Maybe I am scarred by that but they were a pain in the arse to be honest.

That's disappointing to hear. Given it was councilors you were dealing with I presume that was in a single region? I would hope they are better in others, although I must admit my own experience of councilors is not much better. Path of least resistance is their general route, on top of which most I have had cause to deal with made decisions on whatever suited their own personal interests first and foremost. It would not surprise me at all to find out the specific councilors you dealt with were football fans or otherwise involved in football at a grassroots level, therefore did exactly what suited them and their interests.

The SFA set up the Performance Schools at a national level though. They went about it in a smart way by having a well connected former government minister (Henry McCleish) make the recommendations. That will have given them significant clout in implementing the scheme. I am quite sure the SRU are well connected with the SG and could undertake a similar methodology for putting this kind of scheme in place.

The total cost of the SFA scheme, which is much larger than I am suggesting, is £450k per year. With the right corporate sponsorship you could possibly half that. I don't have recent stats for the football scheme as the SFA stopped reporting on it, but in 2019 it had produced 140 professional players from 7 years of operation - that was from only 3 classes and a total of 150 who had 'graduated' and the oldest graduates of which were still only 19. It will be considerably higher now. That (93% professional contracts) is an exceptional strike rate for football, where the vast vast majority do not gain professional contracts.

[Yr Alban]

Tom English putting the boot into Scotland in his column with the ghoulish glee that is his stock in trade. Thing is, I can’t argue with anything he says. Our team were contenders in 2020, maybe even in 2021, but we are going backwards rapidly and it’s hard to see how we can stop the rot.

[Slick]

And now Kinghorn is getting a slagging in the press which isn’t fair.

I really hope this idiotic experiment doesn’t ruin him

[I like neeps]

And now Kinghorn is getting a slagging in the press which isn’t fair.

I really hope this idiotic experiment doesn’t ruin him

I think it'll prove a boost to his career as he wasn't exactly excelling at full back for Edinburgh. Bofelli has been a huge upgrade at 15. I think Kinghorn will make an extremely entertaining 10 for Mike Blair's Edinburgh and if the next Scotland coach decides just to play balls to the wall might do well for Scotland too. He just isn't built for Townsend's gameplan of kick territory and defend well.

[robmatic]

And now Kinghorn is getting a slagging in the press which isn’t fair.

I really hope this idiotic experiment doesn’t ruin him

Rugby journalists are largely idiots.

Personally, I would rather have him have put a few more decent performances at 10 for Edinburgh away in Ireland or South Africa before he's starting there for Scotland, but without Russell or Hastings being available and the Glasgow 10s being in poor form last season he has to play. And there are issues elsewhere in that backline which are entirely optional.

[Yr Alban]

And now Kinghorn is getting a slagging in the press which isn’t fair.

I really hope this idiotic experiment doesn’t ruin him

Rugby journalists are largely idiots.

Personally, I would rather have him have put a few more decent performances at 10 for Edinburgh away in Ireland or South Africa before he's starting there for Scotland, but without Russell or Hastings being available and the Glasgow 10s being in poor form last season he has to play. And there are issues elsewhere in that backline which are entirely optional.

It’s a shame that Fin Smith is keeping his options open (GT was clearly sounding him out, and he hasn’t slammed the door AFAIK) as we could really have done with another fit 10 on the tour to take some of the pressure off BK.

[mos_eisely_]

Or play Hutch at 12.

Biggar was talking up how playing with Hutch at 12 is like having a second 10/playmaker and it really benefits Saints attack.