NPR

The Guardian wrote: Met admits not sending Boris Johnson questionnaires over Partygate gatherings

Force accused of ‘deferential policing’ after it confirms not seeking details from PM over two events before deciding not to fine him

Anger over the Partygate scandal has been reignited after Scotland Yard confirmed that it did not send questionnaires to Boris Johnson before deciding against fining him for attending two Downing Street lockdown gatherings.

Fines were issued to other attenders at the gatherings in 2020, including one at No 10 on 13 November, where the prime minister gave a leaving speech for his departing director of communications, Lee Cain, and another in the Cabinet Office on 17 December.

Downing Street has previously briefed that Johnson did not receive police questionnaires relating to some lockdown events. But the revelation on Monday is thought to be the first time the Metropolitan police has admitted this, under details released as part of a legal challenge.

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Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Mon Jul 25, 2022 8:30 pm Rishi's political instincts are horrendous - yelling over a woman repeatedly is going to get him barbecued at an election.

Slick wrote: ↑Mon Jul 25, 2022 9:02 pm Have to say, pretty impressed with Truss tonight

GogLais wrote: ↑Mon Jul 25, 2022 9:05 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Mon Jul 25, 2022 9:02 pm Have to say, pretty impressed with Truss tonight

Certainly more fluent than the snatches I’ve seen of her in the past.

C69 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 25, 2022 9:23 pm

GogLais wrote: ↑Mon Jul 25, 2022 9:05 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Mon Jul 25, 2022 9:02 pm Have to say, pretty impressed with Truss tonight

Certainly more fluent than the snatches I’ve seen of her in the past.

Impressed?
Or just not surprised she wasn't an embarrassment.

GogLais wrote: ↑Mon Jul 25, 2022 9:27 pm

C69 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 25, 2022 9:23 pm

GogLais wrote: ↑Mon Jul 25, 2022 9:05 pm

Certainly more fluent than the snatches I’ve seen of her in the past.

Impressed?
Or just not surprised she wasn't an embarrassment.

The latter although in a way it doesn't matter as I'm not going to vote Conservative anyway.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Mon Jul 25, 2022 5:09 pm FAO JMK - did you catch Starmer dropping his pledge to nationalise public services today?

Slick wrote: ↑Mon Jul 25, 2022 8:31 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Mon Jul 25, 2022 8:30 pm Rishi's political instincts are horrendous - yelling over a woman repeatedly is going to get him barbecued at an election.

Absolutely

Truss doing much better tonight. She was rocking a bit on economics mind you

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 8:00 am I really don't understand why or how anyone would allow themselves to be swayed by a tv debate. Unless they use it to announce drastic policy changes, which would make me instantly suspicious, you already know broadly where any politician stands and thus whether you could vote for them.

GogLais wrote: ↑Mon Jul 25, 2022 9:05 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Mon Jul 25, 2022 9:02 pm Have to say, pretty impressed with Truss tonight

Certainly more fluent than the snatches I’ve seen of her in the past.

ASMO wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 8:01 am apparently 10,000 Conservative members have demanded the Slug be added to the Ballot for PM...just how mental are they?

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Mon Jul 25, 2022 8:30 pm Rishi's political instincts are horrendous - yelling over a woman repeatedly is going to get him barbecued at an election.

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 8:00 am I really don't understand why or how anyone would allow themselves to be swayed by a tv debate. Unless they use it to announce drastic policy changes, which would make me instantly suspicious, you already know broadly where any politician stands and thus whether you could vote for them.

GogLais wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 8:02 am I imagine many of the Conservative party membership would be delighted with 7% interest rates.

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 8:38 am

GogLais wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 8:02 am I imagine many of the Conservative party membership would be delighted with 7% interest rates.

From a purely personal perspective, I'd prefer Truss's economic approach which would force high interest rates to curb inflation over Slimy's attempts to kill small to medium sized businesses.

Slick wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 8:24 am

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 8:00 am I really don't understand why or how anyone would allow themselves to be swayed by a tv debate. Unless they use it to announce drastic policy changes, which would make me instantly suspicious, you already know broadly where any politician stands and thus whether you could vote for them.

I think when it's the PM there is definitely an element of seeing how they might represent us on the world stage.

GogLais wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 8:49 am

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 8:38 am

GogLais wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 8:02 am I imagine many of the Conservative party membership would be delighted with 7% interest rates.

From a purely personal perspective, I'd prefer Truss's economic approach which would force high interest rates to curb inflation over Slimy's attempts to kill small to medium sized businesses.

I was slightly confused - doesn’t take much - when she said would start repaying the debt in three years time. If she believes COVID is a once in a hundred year event (debatable) then why so soon? She made it sound as though her low taxes are going to be a temporary boost rather than a long-term plan.

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 9:07 am

Slick wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 8:24 am

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 8:00 am I really don't understand why or how anyone would allow themselves to be swayed by a tv debate. Unless they use it to announce drastic policy changes, which would make me instantly suspicious, you already know broadly where any politician stands and thus whether you could vote for them.

I think when it's the PM there is definitely an element of seeing how they might represent us on the world stage.

But we already know that? Almost anyone high profile enough to be in the running has been in the media giving interviews countless times before. If anything, these dedicated events they prepare for give less of an impression of who they are and how they conduct themselves on a day to day basis than interview situations for which they often haven't had much time to prep (read slide the human suit over their reptilian scales...).

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 8:36 am

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 8:00 am I really don't understand why or how anyone would allow themselves to be swayed by a tv debate. Unless they use it to announce drastic policy changes, which would make me instantly suspicious, you already know broadly where any politician stands and thus whether you could vote for them.

We are in the age of personality politics coupled with meejuh idolatory (Big Brother, Escape from the f**king whatever etc). I'd wager huge amounts of the population are swayed by this very sh*t.

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 9:07 am

Slick wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 8:24 am

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 8:00 am I really don't understand why or how anyone would allow themselves to be swayed by a tv debate. Unless they use it to announce drastic policy changes, which would make me instantly suspicious, you already know broadly where any politician stands and thus whether you could vote for them.

I think when it's the PM there is definitely an element of seeing how they might represent us on the world stage.

But we already know that? Almost anyone high profile enough to be in the running has been in the media giving interviews countless times before. If anything, these dedicated events they prepare for give less of an impression of who they are and how they conduct themselves on a day to day basis than interview situations for which they often haven't had much time to prep (read slide the human suit over their reptilian scales...).

Slick wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 9:24 am

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 9:07 am

Slick wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 8:24 am

I think when it's the PM there is definitely an element of seeing how they might represent us on the world stage.

But we already know that? Almost anyone high profile enough to be in the running has been in the media giving interviews countless times before. If anything, these dedicated events they prepare for give less of an impression of who they are and how they conduct themselves on a day to day basis than interview situations for which they often haven't had much time to prep (read slide the human suit over their reptilian scales...).

I would have agreed but I have to be honest and say that Truss changed my opinion on her quite a bit last night. Still think she isn't PM material, but a bit closer than I thought before.

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 9:11 am

GogLais wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 8:49 am

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 8:38 am

From a purely personal perspective, I'd prefer Truss's economic approach which would force high interest rates to curb inflation over Slimy's attempts to kill small to medium sized businesses.

I was slightly confused - doesn’t take much - when she said would start repaying the debt in three years time. If she believes COVID is a once in a hundred year event (debatable) then why so soon? She made it sound as though her low taxes are going to be a temporary boost rather than a long-term plan.

Oh. I don't think she knows what she's talking about. The cost of servicing the debt is now about 10% of GDP and that can only get worse unless there is zero further borrowing and/or payments increase over the rate of interest. Her former chum Rishi has dug the UK into a hole that can only be climbed out off by p*ssing off large portions of the electorate or all of them.

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 9:13 am

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 8:36 am

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 8:00 am I really don't understand why or how anyone would allow themselves to be swayed by a tv debate. Unless they use it to announce drastic policy changes, which would make me instantly suspicious, you already know broadly where any politician stands and thus whether you could vote for them.

We are in the age of personality politics coupled with meejuh idolatory (Big Brother, Escape from the f**king whatever etc). I'd wager huge amounts of the population are swayed by this very sh*t.

I'm not sure those are the types tuning into these sorts of debates though? I could be wrong, but Mr or Mrs Daily Mail or the young lad who thinks 'Boris is alright, he got stuck on a zipline once' don't strike me as the target audience. Not that others are immune to the power of personality politics, but only the particularly politically engaged will bother with internal party debates? The actual party leader ones during a general election certainly garner a broader audience, but I'd suspect a lot of viewers have already made up their minds about how to cast their vote and are watching to confirm that the other side(s') leader is a bellend rather than to be swayed by personality.

As an aside I almost wish we would bring in a separate election from prime minister, it feels like voting for your MP has become more and more about the individual who'll be sitting in number 10.

GogLais wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 9:37 am The other thing is her solution to the problems that people are facing now is doing away with the NIC increase, which should have been on income tax, and scrapping the planned increase in Corporation Tax. They might or might not be good things but they’ll do very little for people in the short term. Just struck me that’s a point that wasn’t put to her last night and neither was the social care issue. Move aside Sophie and give me the red trouser suit and heels.

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 9:13 am I'm not sure those are the types tuning into these sorts of debates though? I could be wrong, but Mr or Mrs Daily Mail or the young lad who thinks 'Boris is alright, he got stuck on a zipline once' don't strike me as the target audience. Not that others are immune to the power of personality politics, but only the particularly politically engaged will bother with internal party debates? The actual party leader ones during a general election certainly garner a broader audience, but I'd suspect a lot of viewers have already made up their minds about how to cast their vote and are watching to confirm that the other side(s') leader is a bellend rather than to be swayed by personality.

As an aside I almost wish we would bring in a separate election from prime minister, it feels like voting for your MP has become more and more about the individual who'll be sitting in number 10.

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 11:09 am

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 9:13 am I'm not sure those are the types tuning into these sorts of debates though? I could be wrong, but Mr or Mrs Daily Mail or the young lad who thinks 'Boris is alright, he got stuck on a zipline once' don't strike me as the target audience. Not that others are immune to the power of personality politics, but only the particularly politically engaged will bother with internal party debates? The actual party leader ones during a general election certainly garner a broader audience, but I'd suspect a lot of viewers have already made up their minds about how to cast their vote and are watching to confirm that the other side(s') leader is a bellend rather than to be swayed by personality.

As an aside I almost wish we would bring in a separate election from prime minister, it feels like voting for your MP has become more and more about the individual who'll be sitting in number 10.

Agreed but they are basically publicising their election manifestos which will filter down to those types who might then want to hold them to account?

Your bit in red is exactly what is wrong with first past the post and that is exasperated when we now have Yank style politics.

a) Some form of PR is needed. Who cares which? Any is better than this.
b) My preference? We live in a tech age. Elect whomever you like but any proposal that requires assent is put to the voters. We have an app and say yes or no. Decided by us and not a bunch of stooges who get a 5 year mandate to do whatever their party whips tell them.

GogLais wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 11:33 am Wouldn't a directly elected PM lead to more Yank type politics? The US has fixed terms, would we elect a new PM every time there happens to be a GE and what if we end up with a PM from a different party from the Gov't?
Trouble is, achieving major constitutional change in the UK seems almost impossible. Can't we just give PR a go for say ten years and see what happens? Unlikely to make things worse.
In the last para are you arguing for a referendum for all major Gov't policies? I'm not sure about that at all.

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 11:09 am

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 9:13 am I'm not sure those are the types tuning into these sorts of debates though? I could be wrong, but Mr or Mrs Daily Mail or the young lad who thinks 'Boris is alright, he got stuck on a zipline once' don't strike me as the target audience. Not that others are immune to the power of personality politics, but only the particularly politically engaged will bother with internal party debates? The actual party leader ones during a general election certainly garner a broader audience, but I'd suspect a lot of viewers have already made up their minds about how to cast their vote and are watching to confirm that the other side(s') leader is a bellend rather than to be swayed by personality.

As an aside I almost wish we would bring in a separate election from prime minister, it feels like voting for your MP has become more and more about the individual who'll be sitting in number 10.

Agreed but they are basically publicising their election manifestos which will filter down to those types who might then want to hold them to account?

Your bit in red is exactly what is wrong with first past the post and that is exasperated when we now have Yank style politics.

a) Some form of PR is needed. Who cares which? Any is better than this.
b) My preference? We live in a tech age. Elect whomever you like but any proposal that requires assent is put to the voters. We have an app and say yes or no. Decided by us and not a bunch of stooges who get a 5 year mandate to do whatever their party whips tell them.

Lobby wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 10:21 am

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 9:13 am

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 8:36 am

We are in the age of personality politics coupled with meejuh idolatory (Big Brother, Escape from the f**king whatever etc). I'd wager huge amounts of the population are swayed by this very sh*t.

I'm not sure those are the types tuning into these sorts of debates though? I could be wrong, but Mr or Mrs Daily Mail or the young lad who thinks 'Boris is alright, he got stuck on a zipline once' don't strike me as the target audience. Not that others are immune to the power of personality politics, but only the particularly politically engaged will bother with internal party debates? The actual party leader ones during a general election certainly garner a broader audience, but I'd suspect a lot of viewers have already made up their minds about how to cast their vote and are watching to confirm that the other side(s') leader is a bellend rather than to be swayed by personality.

As an aside I almost wish we would bring in a separate election from prime minister, it feels like voting for your MP has become more and more about the individual who'll be sitting in number 10.

I was struck recently by a 'vox pop' interview on the BBC when Boris was being urged to resign; a young woman (probably mid 20s) was asked what she thought about the issue, and she said she wasn't really sure, and then admitted that she got all of her news from TikTok.

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 11:40 am

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 11:09 am

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 9:13 am I'm not sure those are the types tuning into these sorts of debates though? I could be wrong, but Mr or Mrs Daily Mail or the young lad who thinks 'Boris is alright, he got stuck on a zipline once' don't strike me as the target audience. Not that others are immune to the power of personality politics, but only the particularly politically engaged will bother with internal party debates? The actual party leader ones during a general election certainly garner a broader audience, but I'd suspect a lot of viewers have already made up their minds about how to cast their vote and are watching to confirm that the other side(s') leader is a bellend rather than to be swayed by personality.

As an aside I almost wish we would bring in a separate election from prime minister, it feels like voting for your MP has become more and more about the individual who'll be sitting in number 10.

Agreed but they are basically publicising their election manifestos which will filter down to those types who might then want to hold them to account?

Your bit in red is exactly what is wrong with first past the post and that is exasperated when we now have Yank style politics.

a) Some form of PR is needed. Who cares which? Any is better than this.
b) My preference? We live in a tech age. Elect whomever you like but any proposal that requires assent is put to the voters. We have an app and say yes or no. Decided by us and not a bunch of stooges who get a 5 year mandate to do whatever their party whips tell them.

Fully agree. First past the post is busted. I was disappointed with how little traction AV got when it was put to the public, but I suppose Labour were still newly enough out of power then that they thought FPTP was still a route that could work for them. Without the support of at least one of the two main parties it wasn't going to go down well with voters.

I'm not sure I want the public voting on everything (Brexit will forever stand as an example of mass ignorance...), but MPs toeing the party line so as not to damage their chances of advancement is an issue. One that could be mitigated somewhat by PR and the existing parties splitting into smaller entities rather than trying to squeeze all their disparate beliefs under a couple of umbrellas.

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 11:40 am I'm not sure I want the public voting on everything (Brexit will forever stand as an example of mass ignorance...), but MPs toeing the party line so as not to damage their chances of advancement is an issue. One that could be mitigated somewhat by PR and the existing parties splitting into smaller entities rather than trying to squeeze all their disparate beliefs under a couple of umbrellas.

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 11:40 am

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 11:09 am

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 9:13 am I'm not sure those are the types tuning into these sorts of debates though? I could be wrong, but Mr or Mrs Daily Mail or the young lad who thinks 'Boris is alright, he got stuck on a zipline once' don't strike me as the target audience. Not that others are immune to the power of personality politics, but only the particularly politically engaged will bother with internal party debates? The actual party leader ones during a general election certainly garner a broader audience, but I'd suspect a lot of viewers have already made up their minds about how to cast their vote and are watching to confirm that the other side(s') leader is a bellend rather than to be swayed by personality.

As an aside I almost wish we would bring in a separate election from prime minister, it feels like voting for your MP has become more and more about the individual who'll be sitting in number 10.

Agreed but they are basically publicising their election manifestos which will filter down to those types who might then want to hold them to account?

Your bit in red is exactly what is wrong with first past the post and that is exasperated when we now have Yank style politics.

a) Some form of PR is needed. Who cares which? Any is better than this.
b) My preference? We live in a tech age. Elect whomever you like but any proposal that requires assent is put to the voters. We have an app and say yes or no. Decided by us and not a bunch of stooges who get a 5 year mandate to do whatever their party whips tell them.

Fully agree. First past the post is busted. I was disappointed with how little traction AV got when it was put to the public, but I suppose Labour were still newly enough out of power then that they thought FPTP was still a route that could work for them. Without the support of at least one of the two main parties it wasn't going to go down well with voters.

I'm not sure I want the public voting on everything (Brexit will forever stand as an example of mass ignorance...), but MPs toeing the party line so as not to damage their chances of advancement is an issue. One that could be mitigated somewhat by PR and the existing parties splitting into smaller entities rather than trying to squeeze all their disparate beliefs under a couple of umbrellas.