Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 9:11 am
Oh. I don't think she knows what she's talking about. The cost of servicing the debt is now about 10% of GDP and that can only get worse unless there is zero further borrowing and/or payments increase over the rate of interest. Her former chum Rishi has dug the UK into a hole that can only be climbed out off by p*ssing off large portions of the electorate or all of them.
The cost of servicing which debt is now 10% of GDP? Is the whole economy debt? Just it followed on from comments about Truss cutting debt and that would suggest public debt.
Yes debt servicing costs will have rather shot up, but public service borrowing service costs were down around 1% not so long ago (which is an odd feature in itself of the debt that the cost of servicing it was falling even as the total debt was shooting up since the start of the century) and again yes it will have increased, but to suggest to 10% sounds like someone put Diane Abbott in charge of analysing the data. I'd believe 3-4% right off the bat, depends in part how many of what types of gilt are actually in issue, I'm just struggling to consider it's risen to 10% and nobody is really commenting on that, that doesn't sound right
So your notation of 'about 10%' allows quite some margin of error in the 'about'
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2022 7:52 pm
by Lobby
I like neeps wrote: ↑Wed Jul 27, 2022 5:02 pm
Proud trade unionist Keir Starmer has sacked Angela's Rayner's boyfriend Sam Tarry for being on the picket lines. Should be interesting to watch how this unfolds.
I expect his sacking was as much for promoting himself to Shadow Secretary of State for Transport and inventing a non-existent Labour policy on the spot in interviews as for joining a picket line.
I like neeps wrote: ↑Wed Jul 27, 2022 5:02 pm
Proud trade unionist Keir Starmer has sacked Angela's Rayner's boyfriend Sam Tarry for being on the picket lines. Should be interesting to watch how this unfolds.
I expect his sacking was as much for promoting himself to Shadow Secretary of State for Transport and inventing a non-existent Labour policy on the spot in interviews as for joining a picket line.
When will these fucking idiots realize that if they don't STFU, & pull in the same direction, they'll end up in a State where membership of a Union is banned, & if you protest you'll get put in prison ?
Cretins like this are why this shit is happening; because they are too fucking dense to be disciplined enough to ever get elected to a position, where they actually have power. Instead they worship similar cretins like Corbyn; who wasted his entire Parliamentary career being indulgently pious, & voting against his own Party, & never got close to any actual being able to fucking achieve anything.
I like neeps wrote: ↑Wed Jul 27, 2022 5:02 pm
Proud trade unionist Keir Starmer has sacked Angela's Rayner's boyfriend Sam Tarry for being on the picket lines. Should be interesting to watch how this unfolds.
I expect his sacking was as much for promoting himself to Shadow Secretary of State for Transport and inventing a non-existent Labour policy on the spot in interviews as for joining a picket line.
If inventing labour policies is a stackable offence Rachael Reeves should be gone too for inventing Labour's privatisation policy on the morning media rounds on Monday. Unless of course she was telling the truth and Starmer was lying...
I like neeps wrote: ↑Wed Jul 27, 2022 5:02 pm
Proud trade unionist Keir Starmer has sacked Angela's Rayner's boyfriend Sam Tarry for being on the picket lines. Should be interesting to watch how this unfolds.
I expect his sacking was as much for promoting himself to Shadow Secretary of State for Transport and inventing a non-existent Labour policy on the spot in interviews as for joining a picket line.
When will these fucking idiots realize that if they don't STFU, & pull in the same direction, they'll end up in a State where membership of a Union is banned, & if you protest you'll get put in prison ?
Cretins like this are why this shit is happening; because they are too fucking dense to be disciplined enough to ever get elected to a position, where they actually have power. Instead they worship similar cretins like Corbyn; who wasted his entire Parliamentary career being indulgently pious, & voting against his own Party, & never got close to any actual being able to fucking achieve anything.
I could see him getting a role within net zero/climate change. Think he'd do well in that type of role as he'd make the hopeful case well.
He is a very good salesman. I would agree he would do well in that role. The people who don't like him don't need to be convinced and the people who do like him need to be convinced.
Having been a succesful salesman for over 45 years I can assure you that lying, cheating and bullshitting like the Blonde Slug doesn't cut it with any potential customers or clients!
'I worked in sales for 45 years and never bullshitted'
He is a very good salesman. I would agree he would do well in that role. The people who don't like him don't need to be convinced and the people who do like him need to be convinced.
Having been a succesful salesman for over 45 years I can assure you that lying, cheating and bullshitting like the Blonde Slug doesn't cut it with any potential customers or clients!
'I worked in sales for 45 years and never bullshitted'
I didn't say that.
I said it doesn't cut it with customers and clients...............you get found out
SaintK wrote: ↑Wed Jul 27, 2022 11:43 am
Having been a succesful salesman for over 45 years I can assure you that lying, cheating and bullshitting like the Blonde Slug doesn't cut it with any potential customers or clients!
'I worked in sales for 45 years and never bullshitted'
I didn't say that.
I said it doesn't cut it with customers and clients...............you get found out
I know - I do a bit of sales myself. Just winding you up
SaintK wrote: ↑Wed Jul 27, 2022 11:43 am
Having been a succesful salesman for over 45 years I can assure you that lying, cheating and bullshitting like the Blonde Slug doesn't cut it with any potential customers or clients!
'I worked in sales for 45 years and never bullshitted'
I didn't say that.
I said it doesn't cut it with customers and clients...............you get found out
Johnson has been found out. Repeatedly. Those that still believe in Johnson and those that believe warming isn't real nearly form a circle on a Venn diagram. Propagandist or conman would have been more suitable than salesman
I like neeps wrote: ↑Wed Jul 27, 2022 5:02 pm
Proud trade unionist Keir Starmer has sacked Angela's Rayner's boyfriend Sam Tarry for being on the picket lines. Should be interesting to watch how this unfolds.
I expect his sacking was as much for promoting himself to Shadow Secretary of State for Transport and inventing a non-existent Labour policy on the spot in interviews as for joining a picket line.
When will these fucking idiots realize that if they don't STFU, & pull in the same direction, they'll end up in a State where membership of a Union is banned, & if you protest you'll get put in prison ?
Cretins like this are why this shit is happening; because they are too fucking dense to be disciplined enough to ever get elected to a position, where they actually have power. Instead they worship similar cretins like Corbyn; who wasted his entire Parliamentary career being indulgently pious, & voting against his own Party, & never got close to any actual being able to fucking achieve anything.
Indeed. I want them to be more lefty than Keir seems inclined to, but for the moment what's needed is just to get the Tories out and halt their destructive influence. Bending enough to secure power in the current political environment may not mean getting everything on the agenda done, but internally squabbling over ideological purity while in opposition gets nothing done.
If the Right can do one thing, it's getting in lock step when it matters.
I expect his sacking was as much for promoting himself to Shadow Secretary of State for Transport and inventing a non-existent Labour policy on the spot in interviews as for joining a picket line.
When will these fucking idiots realize that if they don't STFU, & pull in the same direction, they'll end up in a State where membership of a Union is banned, & if you protest you'll get put in prison ?
Cretins like this are why this shit is happening; because they are too fucking dense to be disciplined enough to ever get elected to a position, where they actually have power. Instead they worship similar cretins like Corbyn; who wasted his entire Parliamentary career being indulgently pious, & voting against his own Party, & never got close to any actual being able to fucking achieve anything.
Indeed. I want them to be more lefty than Keir seems inclined to, but for the moment what's needed is just to get the Tories out and halt their destructive influence. Bending enough to secure power in the current political environment may not mean getting everything on the agenda done, but internally squabbling over ideological purity while in opposition gets nothing done.
If the Right can do one thing, it's getting in lock step when it matters.
This is a myth.
They've been arguing about Europe and will continue to since the 70s. They have been divided on pretty much every other issue in the last 7 years too. Johnson's reign there was almost monthly disharmony about one thing or another.
For some reason (it's not in the media's interest) they aren't show to be the disunited circus they've become.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2022 11:28 am
by GogLais
sefton wrote: ↑Thu Jul 28, 2022 9:40 am
I see the energy companies are announcing huge profit increases.
All in this together.
I don’t know about these things - is this at least partly because the value of their gas/oil holdings/reserves have shot up?
sefton wrote: ↑Thu Jul 28, 2022 9:40 am
I see the energy companies are announcing huge profit increases.
All in this together.
I don’t know about these things - is this at least partly because the value of their gas/oil holdings/reserves have shot up?
Oil and gas companies profits shot up. I suspect power station owners/operators like eon and edf have not done so well.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2022 11:51 am
by PCPhil
Had a family friend on the in-law's side helping fix up an awning at the Mother-in-laws yesterday. Nice guy and we got chatting as we strolled to local DIY shop. In summary, he agreed that Boris had to go because of the lies but really liked him as he got things done. Oh, how the right is good at getting these myths spun....
When will these fucking idiots realize that if they don't STFU, & pull in the same direction, they'll end up in a State where membership of a Union is banned, & if you protest you'll get put in prison ?
Cretins like this are why this shit is happening; because they are too fucking dense to be disciplined enough to ever get elected to a position, where they actually have power. Instead they worship similar cretins like Corbyn; who wasted his entire Parliamentary career being indulgently pious, & voting against his own Party, & never got close to any actual being able to fucking achieve anything.
Indeed. I want them to be more lefty than Keir seems inclined to, but for the moment what's needed is just to get the Tories out and halt their destructive influence. Bending enough to secure power in the current political environment may not mean getting everything on the agenda done, but internally squabbling over ideological purity while in opposition gets nothing done.
If the Right can do one thing, it's getting in lock step when it matters.
This is a myth.
They've been arguing about Europe and will continue to since the 70s. They have been divided on pretty much every other issue in the last 7 years too. Johnson's reign there was almost monthly disharmony about one thing or another.
For some reason (it's not in the media's interest) they aren't show to be the disunited circus they've become.
Europe has brought about the downfall of every Tory PM in the last 50 years.
Sorry, Dizzy Lizzy says he's a, 'militant', because he thinks that people who've worked their entire lives are entitled to a dignified retirement; or people in work, should have conditions that mean they don't need to rely on charities & food banks to survive, in the worlds 6th largest economy.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2022 2:17 pm
by tabascoboy
fishfoodie wrote: ↑Thu Jul 28, 2022 2:03 pm
Sorry, Dizzy Lizzy says he's a, 'militant', because he thinks that people who've worked their entire lives are entitled to a dignified retirement; or people in work, should have conditions that mean they don't need to rely on charities & food banks to survive, in the worlds 6th largest economy.
And the best way out of this in the view of our increasingly despotic leaders is to pursue making striking illegal and until then allow employment of (non specialist) temp agency staff to cover...
fishfoodie wrote: ↑Thu Jul 28, 2022 2:03 pm
Sorry, Dizzy Lizzy says he's a, 'militant', because he thinks that people who've worked their entire lives are entitled to a dignified retirement; or people in work, should have conditions that mean they don't need to rely on charities & food banks to survive, in the worlds 6th largest economy.
And the best way out of this in the view of our increasingly despotic leaders is to pursue making striking illegal and until then allow employment of (non specialist) temp agency staff to cover...
Call me crazy but I don't think I'll travel by train when the signals are being controlled by temporary agency staff with a few hours training.
fishfoodie wrote: ↑Thu Jul 28, 2022 2:03 pm
Sorry, Dizzy Lizzy says he's a, 'militant', because he thinks that people who've worked their entire lives are entitled to a dignified retirement; or people in work, should have conditions that mean they don't need to rely on charities & food banks to survive, in the worlds 6th largest economy.
And the best way out of this in the view of our increasingly despotic leaders is to pursue making striking illegal and until then allow employment of (non specialist) temp agency staff to cover...
Call me crazy but I don't think I'll travel by train when the signals are being controlled by temporary agency staff with a few hours training.
Yeah, & because the wages are so shite, it's probably their 3rd, or 4th job, so they'll be asleep most of the time.
The cost of servicing which debt is now 10% of GDP? Is the whole economy debt? Just it followed on from comments about Truss cutting debt and that would suggest public debt.
Yes debt servicing costs will have rather shot up, but public service borrowing service costs were down around 1% not so long ago (which is an odd feature in itself of the debt that the cost of servicing it was falling even as the total debt was shooting up since the start of the century) and again yes it will have increased, but to suggest to 10% sounds like someone put Diane Abbott in charge of analysing the data. I'd believe 3-4% right off the bat, depends in part how many of what types of gilt are actually in issue, I'm just struggling to consider it's risen to 10% and nobody is really commenting on that, that doesn't sound right
So your notation of 'about 10%' allows quite some margin of error in the 'about'
Eh?
Cost of debt in June = £19.4bn. So, in 1 year = £232bn
UK GDP Q1 2022 = £569.182bn. So, in 1 year = £2,227bn
I think even you might manage the rest. Give it a try. You might even surprise yourself.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2022 3:16 pm
by GogLais
A simplistic calculation - isn’t the debt about the same as a year’s GDP? I know it’s various chunks of money borrowed at different times but surely the average interest rate isn’t 10%?
There’s also a comment about debt interest being the highest since records began in 1997. That’s bonkers surely. I mean bonkers in terms of records only beginning in 97.
So your notation of 'about 10%' allows quite some margin of error in the 'about'
Eh?
Cost of debt in June = £19.4bn. So, in 1 year = £232bn
UK GDP Q1 2022 = £569.182bn. So, in 1 year = £2,227bn
I think even you might manage the rest. Give it a try. You might even surprise yourself.
Cost of servicing debt was a record high in June, driven by fact that 25% of our overall debt is index linked, so using June figures x 12 is a bit loose? OBR (May 2022) reckon cost of servicing debt will be £83b for 2022-23 but this is a peak and will fall back to c£50b the following year.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2022 3:38 pm
by Torquemada 1420
GogLais wrote: ↑Thu Jul 28, 2022 3:16 pm
A simplistic calculation - isn’t the debt about the same as a year’s GDP? I know it’s various chunks of money borrowed at different times but surely the average interest rate isn’t 10%?
There’s also a comment about debt interest being the highest since records began in 1997. That’s bonkers surely. I mean bonkers in terms of records only beginning in 97.
Actually, the debt is currently 109% of GDP. The interest rate isn't 10%. The cost of the interest is equivalent to 10% of GDP.
What this means is if the Govt never spent another penny and took every penny generated in the economy and threw it at the debt for a whole year, we'd still be at least 9% in debt plus whatever interest had accrued in that 12 month period!
I don't have an answer to your last point. For example, it's well documented what happened with Callahan and the IMF in 1976. Note that the debt was only around 30% post Thatcher (after her Govt had sold off utilities, council houses etc) and stayed like that through to the Millennium. It all went really sh*t shaped after 2008 when the treble whammy of
- the false economic growth driven by easy credit and the property bubble burst and the economy stalled
- the Govt decided to bail out the banks
- the Govt printed money like a Banana Republic on steroids for a decade or more and borrowed and stole like a crack whore in seek of her next fix
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2022 3:46 pm
by Torquemada 1420
dpedin wrote: ↑Thu Jul 28, 2022 3:32 pm
Cost of servicing debt was a record high in June, driven by fact that 25% of our overall debt is index linked, so using June figures x 12 is a bit loose? OBR (May 2022) reckon cost of servicing debt will be £83b for 2022-23 but this is a peak and will fall back to c£50b the following year.
You think as inflation rises, cost of debt will fall?
And what coupon rates will new gilt issues have to be made at (assuming anyone will buy them at all) in the same environment? Or are you suggesting no more borrowing (because the economy is in such great shape) is required or will be invoked? (Before you say it) GDP might grow at the same relative rate............. and pigs might fly too!
dpedin wrote: ↑Thu Jul 28, 2022 3:32 pm
Cost of servicing debt was a record high in June, driven by fact that 25% of our overall debt is index linked, so using June figures x 12 is a bit loose? OBR (May 2022) reckon cost of servicing debt will be £83b for 2022-23 but this is a peak and will fall back to c£50b the following year.
You think as inflation rises, cost of debt will fall?
And what coupon rates will new gilt issues have to be made at (assuming anyone will buy them at all) in the same environment? Or are you suggesting no more borrowing (because the economy is in such great shape) is required or will be invoked? (Before you say it) GDP might grow at the same relative rate............. and pigs might fly too!
The cost of debt won’t fall, but the amount of debt relative to GDP should. And that’s considered an important metric in credit ratings agencies
Indeed. I want them to be more lefty than Keir seems inclined to, but for the moment what's needed is just to get the Tories out and halt their destructive influence. Bending enough to secure power in the current political environment may not mean getting everything on the agenda done, but internally squabbling over ideological purity while in opposition gets nothing done.
If the Right can do one thing, it's getting in lock step when it matters.
This is a myth.
They've been arguing about Europe and will continue to since the 70s. They have been divided on pretty much every other issue in the last 7 years too. Johnson's reign there was almost monthly disharmony about one thing or another.
For some reason (it's not in the media's interest) they aren't show to be the disunited circus they've become.
Europe has brought about the downfall of every Tory PM in the last 50 years.
They've been arguing about Europe and will continue to since the 70s. They have been divided on pretty much every other issue in the last 7 years too. Johnson's reign there was almost monthly disharmony about one thing or another.
For some reason (it's not in the media's interest) they aren't show to be the disunited circus they've become.
Europe has brought about the downfall of every Tory PM in the last 50 years.
Europe has brought about the downfall of every Tory PM in the last 50 years.
Not Heath?
Ok, 47 years
You can call me a pedantic sod if you like.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2022 6:37 pm
by C69
I was having a browse of the UK polls earlier and came across this wonderful image
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2022 6:41 pm
by fishfoodie
Biffer wrote: ↑Thu Jul 28, 2022 1:50 pm
Europe has brought about the downfall of every Tory PM in the last 50 years.
Well the Tories certainly liked to blame Europe for the defenestration; but it was mostly just to cover for internal bickering, & the ambition of those waiting in the wings.
What will they do now that particular ship has sailed ?
Biffer wrote: ↑Thu Jul 28, 2022 1:50 pm
Europe has brought about the downfall of every Tory PM in the last 50 years.
Well the Tories certainly liked to blame Europe for the defenestration; but it was mostly just to cover for internal bickering, & the ambition of those waiting in the wings.
What will they do now that particular ship has sailed ?
Biffer wrote: ↑Thu Jul 28, 2022 1:50 pm
Europe has brought about the downfall of every Tory PM in the last 50 years.
Well the Tories certainly liked to blame Europe for the defenestration; but it was mostly just to cover for internal bickering, & the ambition of those waiting in the wings.
What will they do now that particular ship has sailed ?
Who did the blame in the early 20th century ?
Events, dear boy.
Oh for the days when shagging a hooker provided by a Russian spy, would get you fired, & bring down the entire Government & not make you a future leader
So your notation of 'about 10%' allows quite some margin of error in the 'about'
Eh?
Cost of debt in June = £19.4bn. So, in 1 year = £232bn
UK GDP Q1 2022 = £569.182bn. So, in 1 year = £2,227bn
I think even you might manage the rest. Give it a try. You might even surprise yourself.
Cost of servicing debt was a record high in June, driven by fact that 25% of our overall debt is index linked, so using June figures x 12 is a bit loose? OBR (May 2022) reckon cost of servicing debt will be £83b for 2022-23 but this is a peak and will fall back to c£50b the following year.
I would actually share many of the concerns of those who think we're far too happy to rely on debt across, well everything. But I don't know it's coming to a close anytime soon, that would be politically hard so who's offering to do something hard and get votes, and perhaps very oddly government issuance of debt is hugely oversubscribed, odd in terms of castles made of sand and they're not getting better terms, some might suppose the fix is in
