NPR

Pickup trucks over here as well, I'd bet. Looks like it ... https://www.caranddriver.com/news/g2704 ... cars-2019/

I get irrationally angry with SUVs in general because most look the same. I was once in a parking lot where six SUVs were lined up, each looking very similar, yet they were all different makes.

(Older Ford Ranger driver here, who bikes more than he drives ... :smug: )

The really frustrating thing about them is they're not actual SUVs for the most part and the overwhelming majority of owners don't need them to be.

They should be a restricted vehicle class only available to those who need such a vehicle for professional reasons. Basically ban them for the general public.

Besides often being driven by clueless or arrogant cunts, they're simply too big for a lot of our non-main roads and make things less safe for other drivers.

Environmental impact alone should see them banned. We're finally starting to make some decent progress in a lot of areas on reducing our impact as a species, but some people seem determined to selfishly act in ways that only undermine it.

Mumsnet will go into meltdown if those things get banned, how will they manage to get little Tarquin and Euphemia to school if they can't rock up in their tank, park right outside the gates and block the road for everyone else?

ASMO wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 12:48 pm Mumsnet will go into meltdown if those things get banned, how will they manage to get little Tarquin and Euphemia to school if they can't rock up in their tank, park right outside the gates and block the road for everyone else?

....and they virtually take up 2 parking spaces as they are so wide and invariably the driver is shite at parking.................or doesn't give a toss!!!

Unfortunately, a lot of the new EVs coming this year and beyond in all classes are going to be SUV/crossover shaped because they sell. Which is daft, because if you want a car with good drag coefficient, which helps range, a big brick pushing into the air is a bloody stupid way to go.

The french had a people assembly to discuss and plan response to climate change and one of the measure was taxing heavier vehicle. (over 1400kg) most SUV are over this.

Goverment response has been to raise the limit to 1900kg which is pointless... as it has no impact whatsoever this being about 1% of car sales.

I was looking at cars (may still need to change before summer) found that SUV are heavier drink approximately 1 l more per 100km and basically 99.5 % of them won't ever drive on non tarmac roads...

Pointless things

PS. still use my old right hand drive 4 years after moving back to France

laurent wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 12:51 pm The french had a people assembly to discuss and plan response to climate change and one of the measure was taxing heavier vehicle. (over 1400kg) most SUV are over this.

Goverment response has been to raise the limit to 1900kg which is pointless... as it has no impact whatsoever this being about 1% of car sales.

I was looking at cars (may still need to change before summer) found that SUV are heavier drink approximately 1 l more per 100km and basically 99.5 % of them won't ever drive on non tarmac roads...

Pointless things

PS. still use my old right hand drive 4 years after moving back to France

My first car in France was an old Citroen Dyane, when I bought my road tax vignette at the local Tabac it cost me a few quid, the guy behind me was pissed off as he had a Porche and was paying hundreds.

Tichtheid wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 1:14 pm

laurent wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 12:51 pm The french had a people assembly to discuss and plan response to climate change and one of the measure was taxing heavier vehicle. (over 1400kg) most SUV are over this.

Goverment response has been to raise the limit to 1900kg which is pointless... as it has no impact whatsoever this being about 1% of car sales.

I was looking at cars (may still need to change before summer) found that SUV are heavier drink approximately 1 l more per 100km and basically 99.5 % of them won't ever drive on non tarmac roads...

Pointless things

PS. still use my old right hand drive 4 years after moving back to France

My first car in France was an old Citroen Dyane, when I bought my road tax vignette at the local Tabac it cost me a few quid, the guy behind me was pissed off as he had a Porche and was paying hundreds.

that tax is gone, there is actually no "road tax" in France.

A decent double cab bakkie is much better. I just find that I cannot do without the space. You can fit 5 people comfortably and chuck your boogie boards, wetsuits and flippers in the back ...or put the dogs in the back for a walk on the beach.

laurent wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 1:19 pm
that tax is gone, there is actually no "road tax" in France.

Google tells me it has been gone for twenty years now.

Gulp.

SaintK wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 12:51 pm

ASMO wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 12:48 pm Mumsnet will go into meltdown if those things get banned, how will they manage to get little Tarquin and Euphemia to school if they can't rock up in their tank, park right outside the gates and block the road for everyone else?

....and they virtually take up 2 parking spaces as they are so wide and invariably the driver is shite at parking.................or doesn't give a toss!!!

Damn right, I've had to give up on any number of parking spaces because I could get in but not open my door. The other thing is ending up between two SUVs, high window lines and privacy glass make driving out into a lottery. I hate them with a passion.

Sards wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 1:28 pm A decent double cab bakkie is much better. I just find that I cannot do without the space. You can fit 5 people comfortably and chuck your boogie boards, wetsuits and flippers in the back ...or put the dogs in the back for a walk on the beach.

Just don't park in my local Tesco!

Cars should be taxed on weight, not emissions. Unfortunately that would kill the new BEV market because electric cars weigh 500kg more than the equivalent ICE version.

Well my car is supposed to be a SUV, Subaru Forrestor, and f*** anyone who doesn't like it, as I got older I found it easier to get in and out of, don't have to fold up my knees etc. Besides SUVs are coming out as electric so don't know what the moan is anyway.

I know next to nothing about electric... is it possible for a massive change over in the short term? Are there stations / growing number of outlets? Can the 'grid' handle it? What sort of increases in power generation will be needed?

Niegs wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 6:51 pm I know next to nothing about electric... is it possible for a massive change over in the short term? Are there stations / growing number of outlets? Can the 'grid' handle it? What sort of increases in power generation will be needed?

No. But ICE will be with us for many years, no one is saying we are flicking a switch and we all go EV overnight.

Yes. Public charging still isn't good enough, but things like the new Gridserve forecourt at Braintree shows the way forward.

Yes. Any number of studies and, heck, interviews with the head of National Grid confirm this.

None, really. The grid is moving to a much smarter way of generating, storing and balancing energy to cope with the changing demands placed on it.

Fully Charged on YouTube has lots of good stuff on this, as do their podcasts which have interviews with people who really know what they're talking about (unlike most of us).

I am tall, and as I got older, the getting in and out of the Honda Accord was not something I wanted to deal with..

Plus, I love the power of the V8...so, I will accept the hate.

Hal Jordan wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 7:00 pm

Niegs wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 6:51 pm I know next to nothing about electric... is it possible for a massive change over in the short term? Are there stations / growing number of outlets? Can the 'grid' handle it? What sort of increases in power generation will be needed?

No. But ICE will be with us for many years, no one is saying we are flicking a switch and we all go EV overnight.

Yes. Public charging still isn't good enough, but things like the new Gridserve forecourt at Braintree shows the way forward.

Yes. Any number of studies and, heck, interviews with the head of National Grid confirm this.

None, really. The grid is moving to a much smarter way of generating, storing and balancing energy to cope with the changing demands placed on it.

Fully Charged on YouTube has lots of good stuff on this, as do their podcasts which have interviews with people who really know what they're talking about (unlike most of us).

An Israeli company this week announced it had developed a car battery that can be charged in 5 minutes and it is working the Daimler, BP and others to bring it to market. Once it and chargers are available, it should make a big difference to long distance travel in EVs.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... ging-times

Lobby wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 7:29 pm

Hal Jordan wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 7:00 pm

Niegs wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 6:51 pm I know next to nothing about electric... is it possible for a massive change over in the short term? Are there stations / growing number of outlets? Can the 'grid' handle it? What sort of increases in power generation will be needed?

No. But ICE will be with us for many years, no one is saying we are flicking a switch and we all go EV overnight.

Yes. Public charging still isn't good enough, but things like the new Gridserve forecourt at Braintree shows the way forward.

Yes. Any number of studies and, heck, interviews with the head of National Grid confirm this.

None, really. The grid is moving to a much smarter way of generating, storing and balancing energy to cope with the changing demands placed on it.

Fully Charged on YouTube has lots of good stuff on this, as do their podcasts which have interviews with people who really know what they're talking about (unlike most of us).

An Israeli company this week announced it had developed a car battery that can be charged in 5 minutes and it is working the Daimler, BP and others to bring it to market. Once it and chargers are available, it should make a big difference to long distance travel in EVs.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... ging-times

Cheers for that, lads!

My beloved Ranger is on its last legs... wheels? I could probably get another year or so out of it but am wondering what to do next? I do love a proper Jeep (though I hate the typical SUV as mentioned above). Unlike the Tarquin Transporters, I use my vehicle on country roads and trails to transport my canoe / mountain bike to the wilds. I see they have a hybrid now so have some things to consider over the next little while.

In the UK, they really need to bring in weight and size limits to cars instead of being preoccupied with how they're powered. SUVs that are nearly 5m long and weigh 2t are a menace on the roads.

Setting aside my hate for them and all they stand for, their existence in entirely irrational. For the vast majority of aspects, an estate car is better (and yes, I have an estate car)

1) They have more usable space. In fact, SUVs etc have very poor space and especially the boot.
2) As has been mentioned SUVs take up a load of road space though and are generally driven by idiots who can't drive.
3) Safety
- an estate is more stable
- an estate can stop more safely
- an estate is better for pedestrians in an impact
- an estate doesn't obstruct other road users' views in the same way
4) Environment
- an estate is more fuel efficient
- less noisy (SUVs are bricks going through the air)

The ONLY rationale for these type of vehicles are
- you have mobility issues so getting in and out of lower vehicles is hard
- you live in an environment were some sort of off road is required e.g. a proper Land Rover or Range Rover type

The rest of the owners should have these things taxed off the face of the planet.

Dan54 wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 6:43 pm Well my car is supposed to be a SUV, Subaru Forrestor, and f*** anyone who doesn't like it, as I got older I found it easier to get in and out of, don't have to fold up my knees etc. Besides SUVs are coming out as electric so don't know what the moan is anyway.

A Forrester is fine. It's the bloody great big Audi Q's. Mercedes G's and BMW X's that are used for the school run and shopping that are the bloody menace

SaintK wrote: Sat Jan 23, 2021 8:55 am

Dan54 wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 6:43 pm Well my car is supposed to be a SUV, Subaru Forrestor, and f*** anyone who doesn't like it, as I got older I found it easier to get in and out of, don't have to fold up my knees etc. Besides SUVs are coming out as electric so don't know what the moan is anyway.

A Forrester is fine. It's the bloody great big Audi Q's. Mercedes G's and BMW X's that are used for the school run and shopping that are the bloody menace

Yup. Great mix of practicality and performance although as ugly as every other Subaru and plastic interiors that would shame a 1970's Allegro!
Forrester is really nothing more than an estate with an extra inch of ground clearance.

SaintK wrote: Sat Jan 23, 2021 8:55 am

Dan54 wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 6:43 pm Well my car is supposed to be a SUV, Subaru Forrestor, and f*** anyone who doesn't like it, as I got older I found it easier to get in and out of, don't have to fold up my knees etc. Besides SUVs are coming out as electric so don't know what the moan is anyway.

A Forrester is fine. It's the bloody great big Audi Q's. Mercedes G's and BMW X's that are used for the school run and shopping that are the bloody menace

My XC-90 is fine though, right?

I just looked up what the biggest SUV on sale in the UK is. It's the Mercedes GLS. The fucking thing is obscene.

5.25m long
2.05m wide
1.8m high

2800kgs!


These cars should be dinosaurs consigned to the same graveyard as the huge American cars built in the 1950/60s.

The Japanese Kei cars are the model to work towards, small, lightweight clever cars that will do upwards of 100mpg. Less damage to roads, less space taken up, much much less energy to disperse in accidents, greener and more sustainable.

ScarfaceClaw wrote: Sat Jan 23, 2021 9:25 am

SaintK wrote: Sat Jan 23, 2021 8:55 am

Dan54 wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 6:43 pm Well my car is supposed to be a SUV, Subaru Forrestor, and f*** anyone who doesn't like it, as I got older I found it easier to get in and out of, don't have to fold up my knees etc. Besides SUVs are coming out as electric so don't know what the moan is anyway.

A Forrester is fine. It's the bloody great big Audi Q's. Mercedes G's and BMW X's that are used for the school run and shopping that are the bloody menace

My XC-90 is fine though, right?

Forgot about the monster Volvos
You can add them to the list

SaintK wrote: Sat Jan 23, 2021 10:14 am

ScarfaceClaw wrote: Sat Jan 23, 2021 9:25 am

SaintK wrote: Sat Jan 23, 2021 8:55 am
A Forrester is fine. It's the bloody great big Audi Q's. Mercedes G's and BMW X's that are used for the school run and shopping that are the bloody menace

My XC-90 is fine though, right?

Forgot about the monster Volvos
You can add them to the list

I can’t get my dog crate into a Ford Ka.

ScarfaceClaw wrote: Sat Jan 23, 2021 10:17 am

SaintK wrote: Sat Jan 23, 2021 10:14 am

ScarfaceClaw wrote: Sat Jan 23, 2021 9:25 am

My XC-90 is fine though, right?

Forgot about the monster Volvos
You can add them to the list

I can’t get my dog crate into a Ford Ka.

Aaah!
Get a smaller dog

Kawazaki wrote: Sat Jan 23, 2021 10:06 am I just looked up what the biggest SUV on sale in the UK is. It's the Mercedes GLS. The fucking thing is obscene.

5.25m long
2.05m wide
1.8m high

2800kgs!


These cars should be dinosaurs consigned to the same graveyard as the huge American cars built in the 1950/60s.

The Japanese Kei cars are the model to work towards, small, lightweight clever cars that will do upwards of 100mpg. Less damage to roads, less space taken up, much much less energy to disperse in accidents, greener and more sustainable.

That's just absurd for an everyday vehicle, presumably most used in urban areas on good roads. With these and more and more large 3.5 tonne work vans no wonder there's so much pressure for on street parking spaces all day.

I don't have a car or need a parking permit myself but always seems unreasonable that a permit for a small car is the same as for any van up to 1.5 tonnes as even those take up nearly 2 spaces.

Kawazaki wrote: Sat Jan 23, 2021 10:06 am I just looked up what the biggest SUV on sale in the UK is. It's the Mercedes GLS. The fucking thing is obscene.

5.25m long
2.05m wide
1.8m high

2800kgs!


These cars should be dinosaurs consigned to the same graveyard as the huge American cars built in the 1950/60s.

The Japanese Kei cars are the model to work towards, small, lightweight clever cars that will do upwards of 100mpg. Less damage to roads, less space taken up, much much less energy to disperse in accidents, greener and more sustainable.

Obviously the buyers aren't bothered but they must be an absolute pain to drive in traffic and park as well. Well if you're a considerate driver anyway, if not you can always barge through anything.

GogLais wrote: Sat Jan 23, 2021 10:56 am

Kawazaki wrote: Sat Jan 23, 2021 10:06 am I just looked up what the biggest SUV on sale in the UK is. It's the Mercedes GLS. The fucking thing is obscene.

5.25m long
2.05m wide
1.8m high

2800kgs!


These cars should be dinosaurs consigned to the same graveyard as the huge American cars built in the 1950/60s.

The Japanese Kei cars are the model to work towards, small, lightweight clever cars that will do upwards of 100mpg. Less damage to roads, less space taken up, much much less energy to disperse in accidents, greener and more sustainable.

Obviously the buyers aren't bothered but they must be an absolute pain to drive in traffic and park as well. Well if you're a considerate driver anyway, if not you can always barge through anything.

Sold my suv for LWB Transporter which is longer, wider and higher than dimensions above and no different to drive or park than a normal car, other than I look for longer spaces.
The Bluemotion engine means only 145g/Km too.
Plus it sleeps 5.

Its not just the emissions from these large SUVs that are a problem. Because of their size and weight they also cause an increase in other particulate emissions, which are particularly damaging to air quality and health in the immediate vicinity. This includes particulate matter (PM) emissions from tire, brake, clutch, and road wear, as well as the resuspension of road dust, (basically stirring up all the PM that settled on the road previously).

It is thought that these PM emissions from road traffic could be worse for health than those from other sources because they are concentrated in areas with the greatest population density and the most traffic. A recent OECD report https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/environme ... a4dc6ca-en notes that "globally, exposure to ambient PM has been ranked as the seventh most important risk factor for mortality, causing an estimated 4.2 million premature deaths in 2015."

Because road and tire wear is directly proportional to the weight of the vehicle, SUVs increase these non-exhaust emissions on top of the damage caused by their increased exhaust emissions.

As an aside, this is also a problem for larger EV's as their batteries often mean they are heavier than other similar sized vehicles.

Don't forget that SUVs also need more raw materials to build them. Their negative effect on the environment starts well before they've even been sold to a much greater extent than sensibly-sized cars.

The UK suffers worse than many other countries because our road infrastructure is narrow, bendy and very very crowded. They should incentivise hauliers to stay off the roads during daylight hours and move more freight at night coupled with highly punitive taxes and duty on heavy vehicles or just outlaw the sale of private vehicles above about 1700kgs altogether.

Welcome to the world of Afrikaans music where pop stars sing about fucking cars:

ScarfaceClaw wrote: Sat Jan 23, 2021 10:17 am

SaintK wrote: Sat Jan 23, 2021 10:14 am

ScarfaceClaw wrote: Sat Jan 23, 2021 9:25 am

My XC-90 is fine though, right?

Forgot about the monster Volvos
You can add them to the list

I can’t get my dog crate into a Ford Ka.

Why do you need a dog crate? mine just curls up in the passenger footwell with CMOS in the back

Openside wrote: Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:32 pm

ScarfaceClaw wrote: Sat Jan 23, 2021 10:17 am

SaintK wrote: Sat Jan 23, 2021 10:14 am
Forgot about the monster Volvos
You can add them to the list

I can’t get my dog crate into a Ford Ka.

Why do you need a dog crate? mine just curls up in the passenger footwell with CMOS in the back :lol: :lol:

My ejit of a dog would be sitting on my lap expecting to be able to have a go at this driving lark.

Lemoentjie wrote: Sat Jan 23, 2021 1:31 pm Welcome to the world of Afrikaans music where pop stars sing about fucking cars:

We have them as well ...



Wannabe southern Yanks in Canada, Australia, South Africa... jayzus! I even met some Irish at a rugby club who loved country and wore Bass Pro Shop trucker caps. Wouldn't surprise me if there are Germans, too, as I know they (used to at least) love all things 'cowboys and Indians'.

ScarfaceClaw wrote: Sat Jan 23, 2021 4:30 pm

Openside wrote: Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:32 pm

ScarfaceClaw wrote: Sat Jan 23, 2021 10:17 am

I can’t get my dog crate into a Ford Ka.

Why do you need a dog crate? mine just curls up in the passenger footwell with CMOS in the back

My ejit of a dog would be sitting on my lap expecting to be able to have a go at this driving lark.

ScarfaceClaw wrote: Sat Jan 23, 2021 4:30 pm

Openside wrote: Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:32 pm

ScarfaceClaw wrote: Sat Jan 23, 2021 10:17 am

I can’t get my dog crate into a Ford Ka.

Why do you need a dog crate? mine just curls up in the passenger footwell with CMOS in the back

My ejit of a dog would be sitting on my lap expecting to be able to have a go at this driving lark.

Probably a safer bet at the wheel than the mums driving little Joshua 200m to school in one.