SA now has 5 active sprinters with sub 10 sec times. There is also a 19 year old with a 10.06. Wayde van Niekerk has run a sub 10 to add to his world record 400.
None of these guys come from the "small West African generic population" so often raised. A case of correlation does not equal causation I think.
Re: South African sprinters dispelling the myth.
Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 11:08 am
by Lemoentjie
Bantu migration came from West Africa, no?
Re: South African sprinters dispelling the myth.
Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 11:18 am
by ScarfaceClaw
Something something marginal gains.
Re: South African sprinters dispelling the myth.
Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 11:27 am
by FalseBayFC
No Bantu migration was from East and Central Africa.
South African record now 9.89 by Simbine.
Nutrition and training have always been important in SA.
Re: South African sprinters dispelling the myth.
Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 5:18 pm
by Saint
At this point sub 10 is no longer a major thing. Lemaitre is fastest white man in history and hit 9.92.
Sub 9.9 is the bare minimum to be an Olympic contender, and the next gold is almost certain to be sub 9.8
Re: South African sprinters dispelling the myth.
Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 6:03 pm
by FalseBayFC
Saint wrote: ↑Sat Apr 17, 2021 5:18 pm
At this point sub 10 is no longer a major thing. Lemaitre is fastest white man in history and hit 9.92.
Sub 9.9 is the bare minimum to be an Olympic contender, and the next gold is almost certain to be sub 9.8
There are still less than a 100 men who have run faster than 10. How many of non African descent besides Lemaitre. Many of the times from the eighties and nineties have to be taken with a pinch of salt. Amazing how many sub 9.9s were run then.
My point is that until recently the sub 10s were almost exclusively run by athletes if West African descent. My theory on the improvement of SA black athletes is they now have access to world class training facilities, improved nutrition and great coaching. They are also getting tested for PEDs regularly.
Saint wrote: ↑Sat Apr 17, 2021 5:18 pm
At this point sub 10 is no longer a major thing. Lemaitre is fastest white man in history and hit 9.92.
Sub 9.9 is the bare minimum to be an Olympic contender, and the next gold is almost certain to be sub 9.8
There are still less than a 100 men who have run faster than 10. How many of non African descent besides Lemaitre. Many of the times from the eighties and nineties have to be taken with a pinch of salt. Amazing how many sub 9.9s were run then.
My point is that until recently the sub 10s were almost exclusively run by athletes if West African descent. My theory on the improvement of SA black athletes is they now have access to world class training facilities, improved nutrition and great coaching. They are also getting tested for PEDs regularly.
As of 2018, over 136 people had at least one sub 10 second time
Go back 20 years around the same number had a sub 10.2 second time. At the extreme end, the numbers aren't changing. Until Lemaitre did it it was thought impossble that a white man could go sub 10.
The simple fact is that the absolute extreme end is no differnet today than it was 20 years ago; the target has moved on is all
Saint wrote: ↑Sat Apr 17, 2021 5:18 pm
At this point sub 10 is no longer a major thing. Lemaitre is fastest white man in history and hit 9.92.
Sub 9.9 is the bare minimum to be an Olympic contender, and the next gold is almost certain to be sub 9.8
There are still less than a 100 men who have run faster than 10. How many of non African descent besides Lemaitre. Many of the times from the eighties and nineties have to be taken with a pinch of salt. Amazing how many sub 9.9s were run then.
My point is that until recently the sub 10s were almost exclusively run by athletes if West African descent. My theory on the improvement of SA black athletes is they now have access to world class training facilities, improved nutrition and great coaching. They are also getting tested for PEDs regularly.
As of 2018, over 136 people had at least one sub 10 second time
Go back 20 years around the same number had a sub 10.2 second time. At the extreme end, the numbers aren't changing. Until Lemaitre did it it was thought impossble that a white man could go sub 10.
The simple fact is that the absolute extreme end is no differnet today than it was 20 years ago; the target has moved on is all
7 of the top 10 fastest men have doping bans.
Only 1 guy has run more than a few sub 9.9s while having a drug free career.
Amani Simbine ran a 9.82 wind assisted 2.8m/s 100 in Pretoria 2 days ago. If he runs that again or faster he becomes one of the 4 fastest "clean" athletes of all time.
FalseBayFC wrote: ↑Sat Apr 17, 2021 6:03 pm
There are still less than a 100 men who have run faster than 10. How many of non African descent besides Lemaitre. Many of the times from the eighties and nineties have to be taken with a pinch of salt. Amazing how many sub 9.9s were run then.
My point is that until recently the sub 10s were almost exclusively run by athletes if West African descent. My theory on the improvement of SA black athletes is they now have access to world class training facilities, improved nutrition and great coaching. They are also getting tested for PEDs regularly.
As of 2018, over 136 people had at least one sub 10 second time
Go back 20 years around the same number had a sub 10.2 second time. At the extreme end, the numbers aren't changing. Until Lemaitre did it it was thought impossble that a white man could go sub 10.
The simple fact is that the absolute extreme end is no differnet today than it was 20 years ago; the target has moved on is all
7 of the top 10 fastest men have doping bans.
Only 1 guy has run more than a few sub 9.9s while having a drug free career.
Amani Simbine ran a 9.82 wind assisted 2.8m/s 100 in Pretoria 2 days ago. If he runs that again or faster he becomes one of the 4 fastest "clean" athletes of all time.
Yeah cause he'll be clean while everyone else is dodgy
Re: South African sprinters dispelling the myth.
Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2021 7:16 pm
by FalseBayFC
Time will tell. Testing tech is improving but I have no doubt masking Is trying to stay ahead of the game
Re: South African sprinters dispelling the myth.
Posted: Mon May 17, 2021 2:57 pm
by FalseBayFC
20 year old Saffer runs 9.87 100m in US college meet.
Wind over 3m/s so no SA record. Kid ran sub 20 in the 200 same meet.
This post epitomises the racist musings of an old Afrikaner
It is quite sickening
A bit of a shocker that.
Par for the course really. He can't help but let the mask slip when he is trying to be funny/edgy.
The worst part is it is getting worse. The mask is almost completely off now. Really no need for his likes to pollute a forum with casual racism day in day out
Re: South African sprinters dispelling the myth.
Posted: Tue May 18, 2021 12:31 pm
by FalseBayFC
Doesn't phase me. I choose to ignore the haters. I am hugely excited by the progress in inclusivity in our sport.
I watched the Paarl Boys Rondebosch highlights and was delighted to note that the two captains were both towering black number eights. They both scored tries and look very promising. We've come a long way since slipping in the odd nippy little black wing.
There is nothing better for me than hearing the bleating of the old guard who long for the old days.
Par for the course really. He can't help but let the mask slip when he is trying to be funny/edgy.
The worst part is it is getting worse. The mask is almost completely off now. Really no need for his likes to pollute a forum with casual racism day in day out
Dont worry Nipper. I catch your drift. I am off the board. Wont pollute it.
Par for the course really. He can't help but let the mask slip when he is trying to be funny/edgy.
The worst part is it is getting worse. The mask is almost completely off now. Really no need for his likes to pollute a forum with casual racism day in day out
Dont worry Nipper. I catch your drift. I am off the board. Wont pollute it.
@Asmo please delete my account.
Thanks in advance.
FWIW I actually thought it was decent dark (in the normal sense..) humour.
Re: South African sprinters dispelling the myth.
Posted: Tue May 18, 2021 1:22 pm
by Big Nipper
I really don't think that it is a comment that fly here. These lads work their arses off to get where they are, from absolute destitute beginnings where every day survived is a miracle. To go and paint all black people in townships as learning to run fast because they have to outrun rubber bullets is deeply distasteful, and in a South African context extremely bigoted with the aim of being condescending
If he can apologise for that remark properly and delete it then we can all move on, but if he cannot articulate how poor in taste and downright racist it is, then there is no use
Re: South African sprinters dispelling the myth.
Posted: Tue May 18, 2021 1:30 pm
by assfly
I agree with BN. He's got form and I've grown tired of that sort of kak on here.
Can't we just celebrate that South African athletes are doing so well?
Re: South African sprinters dispelling the myth.
Posted: Tue May 18, 2021 1:55 pm
by Slick
Big Nipper wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 1:22 pm
I really don't think that it is a comment that fly here. These lads work their arses off to get where they are, from absolute destitute beginnings where every day survived is a miracle. To go and paint all black people in townships as learning to run fast because they have to outrun rubber bullets is deeply distasteful, and in a South African context extremely bigoted with the aim of being condescending
If he can apologise for that remark properly and delete it then we can all move on, but if he cannot articulate how poor in taste and downright racist it is, then there is no use
yup, fair enough
Re: South African sprinters dispelling the myth.
Posted: Tue May 18, 2021 5:56 pm
by Blake
Slick wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 12:57 pm
FWIW I actually thought it was decent dark (in the normal sense..) humour.
If another poster posted it, sure. I can appreciate an edgy joke that straddles the line.
But he has form for posting racist stuff, so I’m not being charitable or giving him any leeway.
It’s a real pity, because he is a massively knowledgeable poster. One-eyed and biased beyond compare, but knows more about local SA players than anybody on either forum.
Disappointing that he would rather flounce than just cut out the shitposting.
Re: South African sprinters dispelling the myth.
Posted: Wed May 19, 2021 7:44 am
by Chilli
Eish!
Re: South African sprinters dispelling the myth.
Posted: Wed May 19, 2021 7:46 am
by assfly
Unfortunately it's the kind of casual racism I grew up listening to by my parents and their generation. Took me a while when I was older to realise it wasn't cool, which was quite a journey for me personally.
Re: South African sprinters dispelling the myth.
Posted: Wed May 19, 2021 8:31 am
by Blake
assfly wrote: ↑Wed May 19, 2021 7:46 am
Unfortunately it's the kind of casual racism I grew up listening to by my parents and their generation. Took me a while when I was older to realise it wasn't cool, which was quite a journey for me personally.
Same, but more from my grandparents than my parents fortunately.
Re: South African sprinters dispelling the myth.
Posted: Wed May 19, 2021 8:54 am
by Chilli
Folks, just put him on ignore.
Much like GLE.
Re: South African sprinters dispelling the myth.
Posted: Wed May 19, 2021 10:06 am
by Slick
assfly wrote: ↑Wed May 19, 2021 7:46 am
Unfortunately it's the kind of casual racism I grew up listening to by my parents and their generation. Took me a while when I was older to realise it wasn't cool, which was quite a journey for me personally.
On reflection, you are absolutely right. I take it back and apologise.
Re: South African sprinters dispelling the myth.
Posted: Wed May 19, 2021 10:54 am
by assfly
Slick wrote: ↑Wed May 19, 2021 10:06 am
On reflection, you are absolutely right. I take it back and apologise.
No need to apologise . It's just a bit closer to the bone for some of us.
Re: South African sprinters dispelling the myth.
Posted: Wed May 19, 2021 3:48 pm
by Niegs
On the rise of SA sprinters thing, I have a question or two as I'm very interested in sport development in general. Firstly, I don't know track but it seems that, even if you're a bit quick, you have to be hardcore about training/nutrition/etc to get to the next level, peak at the right times, etc.
So, do you think there either hasn't been the dedicated focus on track in the past or has it not been much of a draw (or a bit of both)? The idea that there has 'always' been undeveloped talent had me thinking about something I've heard about the US landscape. A lot of talent chase either the potentially more lucrative career or simply prefer the team sport route, nominally college/NFL football, but also other team sports where explosive power is beneficial. Culturally, football rules in many areas, and while lots of high school football players run track, I always got the impression that most did it because they were asked/pressured or it was something to do in the off-season that had benefits for their football dreams.
Didn't Bolt, himself, dream of being a footballer or cricketer?
Is it more common for boys to aspire to be pro soccer or rugby players in SA, leaving track with the leftovers? (I seem to recall Ross Tucker talking about SA rowing or swimming having to rely on training over getting the best athletes because they'll never get the truly 'best' specimens.)
Re: South African sprinters dispelling the myth.
Posted: Wed May 19, 2021 4:12 pm
by OomStruisbaai
Most of our schools do track at the end/start of the year.
In the Western Cape you,ll find the same structure for athletics as rugby/cricket.
At school level they start with in house (kleure sport) which is a big event for them.
Re: South African sprinters dispelling the myth.
Posted: Wed May 19, 2021 4:29 pm
by OomStruisbaai
Duanne Vermeulen specialized in field athletics from u14-16 at Nelspruit High School. He caught 1st team rugby coach eye in grade 10 and start practice rugby with them.
Re: South African sprinters dispelling the myth.
Posted: Wed May 19, 2021 7:51 pm
by Blake
Niegs wrote: ↑Wed May 19, 2021 3:48 pm
Is it more common for boys to aspire to be pro soccer or rugby players in SA, leaving track with the leftovers? (I seem to recall Ross Tucker talking about SA rowing or swimming having to rely on training over getting the best athletes because they'll never get the truly 'best' specimens.)
Pretty much this. Soccer, Rugby and Cricket are pretty much the only sport in SA where you can potentially make a pro or semi pro living out of sport.
Most SA schools focus on track from January to around March, but interest outside that window is minimal. Only the handful of athletes that have been identified as potential elite prospects might get scooped up into programs, but in most cases they’d rather play soccer or rugby and try their luck there.
Outside of the big 3, sport in SA is criminally underfunded and management of sporting bodies are generally inept and/or corrupt government appointees. Many of our Olympic athletes have to pay for a lot of expenses out of pocket. It’s a joke.
Niegs wrote: ↑Wed May 19, 2021 3:48 pm
Is it more common for boys to aspire to be pro soccer or rugby players in SA, leaving track with the leftovers? (I seem to recall Ross Tucker talking about SA rowing or swimming having to rely on training over getting the best athletes because they'll never get the truly 'best' specimens.)
Pretty much this. Soccer, Rugby and Cricket are pretty much the only sport in SA where you can potentially make a pro or semi pro living out of sport.
Most SA schools focus on track from January to around March, but interest outside that window is minimal. Only the handful of athletes that have been identified as potential elite prospects might get scooped up into programs, but in most cases they’d rather play soccer or rugby and try their luck there.
Outside of the big 3, sport in SA is criminally underfunded and management of sporting bodies are generally inept and/or corrupt government appointees. Many of our Olympic athletes have to pay for a lot of expenses out of pocket. It’s a joke.
Cheers.
It also sounds like, on a simpler level, it's also just not part of the culture.
Here, kids will actually do 'athletics' in school before most team sports, and even the smallest schools will have a 'track and field' team. But numbers always seem to be incredibly small in most secondary schools, even where there isn't a big team sport competing for athletes in the spring season. You'd be hard-pressed to find coverage on the sports networks, and maybe only the odd massive event on a big free-to-air broadcaster (usually just the CBC, and even then, only when we have medal contenders).
The Yanks obviously do well, but with scholarships available, there is an appeal for kids to pursue or a fall-back for those who aren't suited for/interested in the team sport route.
Re: South African sprinters dispelling the myth.
Posted: Thu May 20, 2021 1:07 am
by Green light echo
Chilli wrote: ↑Wed May 19, 2021 8:54 am
Folks, just put him on ignore.
