NPR

Margin__Walker wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 2:54 pm Yep, was amazed at the lack of high profile coverage considering the breadth of the issue. Over 700 prosecutions based on Horizon evidence FFS. Combined with the scandalous behaviour of the Post Office at every point along the way and right to the end with there obstruction of the legal process.

Margin__Walker wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 2:54 pm Yep, was amazed at the lack of high profile coverage considering the breadth of the issue. Over 700 prosecutions based on Horizon evidence FFS. Combined with the scandalous behaviour of the Post Office at every point along the way and right to the end with there obstruction of the legal process.

Slick wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 4:44 pm

Margin__Walker wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 2:54 pm Yep, was amazed at the lack of high profile coverage considering the breadth of the issue. Over 700 prosecutions based on Horizon evidence FFS. Combined with the scandalous behaviour of the Post Office at every point along the way and right to the end with there obstruction of the legal process.

Private Eye have been on this for years and deserve great credit. Awful situation

When the Rev Paula Vennells stepped down as chief executive of the Post Office in February 2019, she walked away nearly £5m richer.
As Vennells made for the exit, hundreds of loyal employees were still falsely branded thieves by the business that many of them had given their lives to.
Under the seven-year leadership of Vennells, an Anglican minister, the Post Office had relentlessly pursued subpostmasters and subpostmistresses for alleged offences such as theft and false accounting.

SaintK wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 4:52 pm

Slick wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 4:44 pm

Margin__Walker wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 2:54 pm Yep, was amazed at the lack of high profile coverage considering the breadth of the issue. Over 700 prosecutions based on Horizon evidence FFS. Combined with the scandalous behaviour of the Post Office at every point along the way and right to the end with there obstruction of the legal process.

Private Eye have been on this for years and deserve great credit. Awful situation

Yes, the Eye have been on it for at least 15 years
Vennell's didn't even apologise until last year. What a good Christian she is, wrecking 100's of lives...........deliberately!

When the Rev Paula Vennells stepped down as chief executive of the Post Office in February 2019, she walked away nearly £5m richer.
As Vennells made for the exit, hundreds of loyal employees were still falsely branded thieves by the business that many of them had given their lives to.
Under the seven-year leadership of Vennells, an Anglican minister, the Post Office had relentlessly pursued subpostmasters and subpostmistresses for alleged offences such as theft and false accounting.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2 ... -vennells

SaintK wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 4:52 pm

Slick wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 4:44 pm

Margin__Walker wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 2:54 pm Yep, was amazed at the lack of high profile coverage considering the breadth of the issue. Over 700 prosecutions based on Horizon evidence FFS. Combined with the scandalous behaviour of the Post Office at every point along the way and right to the end with there obstruction of the legal process.

Private Eye have been on this for years and deserve great credit. Awful situation

Yes, the Eye have been on it for at least 15 years
Vennell's didn't even apologise until last year. What a good Christian she is, wrecking 100's of lives...........deliberately!

When the Rev Paula Vennells stepped down as chief executive of the Post Office in February 2019, she walked away nearly £5m richer.
As Vennells made for the exit, hundreds of loyal employees were still falsely branded thieves by the business that many of them had given their lives to.
Under the seven-year leadership of Vennells, an Anglican minister, the Post Office had relentlessly pursued subpostmasters and subpostmistresses for alleged offences such as theft and false accounting.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2 ... -vennells

Blackmac wrote: Mon Jan 08, 2024 4:43 pm What's incredible was that people were getting convicted of fraud when it was quite obvious there had been no financial gain and the Post Office investigators didn't seem to be required by the court to prove there was.

A close friend who is a Fiscal in the Crown Office made the decision that the evidence presented by the Post Office didn't meet the higher threshold of corroboration required in Scotland and refused to prosecute the cases. He is mention briefly in the documentary.

Margin__Walker wrote: Mon Jan 08, 2024 4:55 pm

Blackmac wrote: Mon Jan 08, 2024 4:43 pm What's incredible was that people were getting convicted of fraud when it was quite obvious there had been no financial gain and the Post Office investigators didn't seem to be required by the court to prove there was.

A close friend who is a Fiscal in the Crown Office made the decision that the evidence presented by the Post Office didn't meet the higher threshold of corroboration required in Scotland and refused to prosecute the cases. He is mention briefly in the documentary.

Yep. To a layman it's mind-blowing that the post office had the power to successfully bring these prosecutions based solely on evidence from an IT system. Without any evidence of criminal intent or financial gain. 100s of them.

Margin__Walker wrote: Mon Jan 08, 2024 4:55 pm

Blackmac wrote: Mon Jan 08, 2024 4:43 pm What's incredible was that people were getting convicted of fraud when it was quite obvious there had been no financial gain and the Post Office investigators didn't seem to be required by the court to prove there was.

A close friend who is a Fiscal in the Crown Office made the decision that the evidence presented by the Post Office didn't meet the higher threshold of corroboration required in Scotland and refused to prosecute the cases. He is mention briefly in the documentary.

Yep. To a layman it's mind-blowing that the post office had the power to successfully bring these prosecutions based solely on evidence from an IT system. Without any evidence of criminal intent or financial gain. 100s of them.

Post Office scandal victims now - 33 dead, four suicides, bankruptcy and pregnant mum jailed

Workers at the heart of the Post Office scandal featured on ITV's Mr Bates vs The Post Office have seen their lives deeply affected in the years since, from bankruptcy to imprisonment and justice still to be done

Blackmac wrote: Mon Jan 08, 2024 6:13 pm Everyone should look up and sign the petition to have Vennell's CBE revoked.

Blackmac wrote: Mon Jan 08, 2024 6:10 pm

Margin__Walker wrote: Mon Jan 08, 2024 4:55 pm

Blackmac wrote: Mon Jan 08, 2024 4:43 pm What's incredible was that people were getting convicted of fraud when it was quite obvious there had been no financial gain and the Post Office investigators didn't seem to be required by the court to prove there was.

A close friend who is a Fiscal in the Crown Office made the decision that the evidence presented by the Post Office didn't meet the higher threshold of corroboration required in Scotland and refused to prosecute the cases. He is mention briefly in the documentary.

Yep. To a layman it's mind-blowing that the post office had the power to successfully bring these prosecutions based solely on evidence from an IT system. Without any evidence of criminal intent or financial gain. 100s of them.

I recall in the early 2000's, Post Office investigators started turning up at stations looking for CID assistance to interview suspects. A couple of lads who assisted were gobsmacked at the whole process and how slapdash the investigations and evidence were. Basically "the computer says it happened so you need to prove it didn't".

It's been on my radar ever since and I'm actually quite surprised how little general interest there seems to have been up to know.

Blackmac wrote: Mon Jan 08, 2024 4:43 pm What's incredible was that people were getting convicted of fraud when it was quite obvious there had been no financial gain and the Post Office investigators didn't seem to be required by the court to prove there was.

A close friend who is a Fiscal in the Crown Office made the decision that the evidence presented by the Post Office didn't meet the higher threshold of corroboration required in Scotland and refused to prosecute the cases. He is mention briefly in the documentary.

Ymx wrote: Mon Jan 08, 2024 6:48 pm I’d never heard of this before.

People have committed suicide over false allegations/prosecutions.

Jesus

Post Office scandal victims now - 33 dead, four suicides, bankruptcy and pregnant mum jailed

Workers at the heart of the Post Office scandal featured on ITV's Mr Bates vs The Post Office have seen their lives deeply affected in the years since, from bankruptcy to imprisonment and justice still to be done

Blackmac wrote: Thu Jan 11, 2024 6:42 pm I see the Post Office Investigator admitted that a number of his statements presented in support of cases weren't actually written by him. Jail time for whoever did write them.

ASMO wrote: Fri Jan 12, 2024 8:41 am

Blackmac wrote: Thu Jan 11, 2024 6:42 pm I see the Post Office Investigator admitted that a number of his statements presented in support of cases weren't actually written by him. Jail time for whoever did write them.

He signed them, he owns them in my view, just because he was too fucking lazy to read them and too stupid to understand them is not anyone elses problem. He absolutely knew the software was fauly, you dont need to be a software expert to understand that. Cunt deserves to be prosecuted for perjury.

ASMO wrote: Fri Jan 12, 2024 8:41 am

Blackmac wrote: Thu Jan 11, 2024 6:42 pm I see the Post Office Investigator admitted that a number of his statements presented in support of cases weren't actually written by him. Jail time for whoever did write them.

He signed them, he owns them in my view, just because he was too fucking lazy to read them and too stupid to understand them is not anyone elses problem. He absolutely knew the software was fauly, you dont need to be a software expert to understand that. Cunt deserves to be prosecuted for perjury.

ASMO wrote: Fri Jan 12, 2024 8:41 am

Blackmac wrote: Thu Jan 11, 2024 6:42 pm I see the Post Office Investigator admitted that a number of his statements presented in support of cases weren't actually written by him. Jail time for whoever did write them.

He signed them, he owns them in my view, just because he was too fucking lazy to read them and too stupid to understand them is not anyone elses problem. He absolutely knew the software was fauly, you dont need to be a software expert to understand that. Cunt deserves to be prosecuted for perjury.

dpedin wrote: Fri Jan 12, 2024 10:12 am Yesterday was a bit like the court cases against the camp guards from Auschwitz. He was a useful goon who was willing to do whatever his bosses told him without question - he was just following orders! Whilst this generates the headlines and everyone feels better for seeing him cut to pieces by a very clever KC in the Inquiry he is a just a not very clever foot soldier. The Inquiry and the courts need to get to the ones who masterminded this debacle and deal with them accordingly. However history tells us that other factors might get in the way of this not least the political embarrassment to the current Gov and the links between Fujitsu, the Conservative Party and individual ministers. As much as it frustrates me to hell there will be lots of bluster and promises made and little will be delivered until something else hits the headlines - bombing the rebels in Yemen - and this will all be forgotten about again. Anyone remember Grenfell, contaminated blood scandal, etc?

inactionman wrote: Fri Jan 12, 2024 10:25 am

dpedin wrote: Fri Jan 12, 2024 10:12 am Yesterday was a bit like the court cases against the camp guards from Auschwitz. He was a useful goon who was willing to do whatever his bosses told him without question - he was just following orders! Whilst this generates the headlines and everyone feels better for seeing him cut to pieces by a very clever KC in the Inquiry he is a just a not very clever foot soldier. The Inquiry and the courts need to get to the ones who masterminded this debacle and deal with them accordingly. However history tells us that other factors might get in the way of this not least the political embarrassment to the current Gov and the links between Fujitsu, the Conservative Party and individual ministers. As much as it frustrates me to hell there will be lots of bluster and promises made and little will be delivered until something else hits the headlines - bombing the rebels in Yemen - and this will all be forgotten about again. Anyone remember Grenfell, contaminated blood scandal, etc?

Agreed. A few fall guys will get it in the neck (although in this case the fall guys do deserve to get it in the neck), the ex-dame will just crack on earnings millions.

My one solace is that the poor sods who bore the brunt of this utter travesty will at least get some recompense and recognition of the wrong, but even that is tempered by the fact some of the poor sods won't be here to see it.

It's a bit like the Ofsted inspections- how do you sleep at night knowing your actions drove someone to suicide?

The Post Office could be facing a £100m bill and insolvency after claiming a tax break for compensation payments to sub-postmasters, a leading expert has told Sky News.

Dan Neidle, the head of non-profit organisation Tax Policy Associates, said the Post Office had wrongly claimed relief on the £934m damages provision.

The tax lawyer argued such deductions could not be made for "unlawful" activities.

Mr Neidle also suggested the amount of tax owed by the Post Office could grow further and called for the clawback of bonuses to senior Post Office managers.
...

Mr Neidle said: "There was a mysterious disclosure in this year's accounts saying they were discussing something with HMRC and we dug through the accounts and we found that they'd created a provision in the accounts for compensation to postmasters of £934m.

"They then claimed a tax deduction for the £934m.

"Now you can't do that.

"You can claim a tax deduction for things that you do in the course of your trade, your expenses of your normal business.

"But you can't claim a tax deduction for things which are unlawful, illegal or outside the trade, like persecuting 4,000 postmasters.

....

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: Sat Jan 13, 2024 11:29 pm I don't know what's in the Sky News article, it might even be news if they haven't been careful. But it's interesting that loss wasn't reflected seemingly reflected when calculating bonuses for the senior bosses.

It's a bit like Trump declaring high values when it comes to asking for loans and low values when it comes to taxes, they've twice wangled the same thing seemingly in ways they shouldn't have and both that work to their advantage, providing no one finds out. Should the charge prove true anyway