Former England rugby union star Lawrence Dallaglio has been given more time to clear his tax debt, which is estimated to be around £700,000.
Judge Sebastian Prentis heard Mr Dallaglio’s case at an Insolvency and Companies Court hearing in London as he tries to avoid bankruptcy.
Mr Dallaglio is trying to raise money by selling a property, according to HM Revenue & Customs (HMRC), which has lodged a bankruptcy petition.
His case will be reconsidered in the next three months, the judge said on Tuesday. Mr Dallaglio was not at the hearing.
Re: Lawrence Dallaglio given time to clear £700,000 tax debt as he tries to avoid bankruptcy
Posted: Wed May 10, 2023 8:39 am
by inactionman
did he take a haircut with Wasps' demise, or just generally a bit lax with money?
These always sound like some tax avoidance scheme going wrong, so I'm going to take a punt he hasn't received the sharpest financial and accounting advice. Seven hundred grand, that's a lot.
Re: Lawrence Dallaglio given time to clear £700,000 tax debt as he tries to avoid bankruptcy
Posted: Wed May 10, 2023 8:47 am
by Kawazaki
£700k suggests it's accumulated over quite a long period of time.
Re: Lawrence Dallaglio given time to clear £700,000 tax debt as he tries to avoid bankruptcy
Posted: Wed May 10, 2023 8:56 am
by SaintK
His business acumen and management must be as shite as his rugby commentary and punditry
Re: Lawrence Dallaglio given time to clear £700,000 tax debt as he tries to avoid bankruptcy
Posted: Wed May 10, 2023 8:59 am
by Jim Lahey
SaintK wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 8:56 am
His business acumen and management must be as shite as his rugby commentary and punditry
I quite like Lol compared to Healy or Monye.
God forgive me as an Irishman but Dallaglio was always my favourite player growing up, given I played 8. Proper tough, uncompromising karnt
Hope it all works out for him.
Re: Lawrence Dallaglio given time to clear £700,000 tax debt as he tries to avoid bankruptcy
Posted: Wed May 10, 2023 9:34 am
by I like neeps
When he retired in 2008, Dallaglio told the Financial Times how he had made his 'first million', adding: 'I think one has a responsibility to ensure that the taxman does not get everything.
how's this going him?
Bit of a George Best. Spent all his money on cocaine, brass and tax avoidance. The rest he just wasted.
Re: Lawrence Dallaglio given time to clear £700,000 tax debt as he tries to avoid bankruptcy
SaintK wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 8:56 am
His business acumen and management must be as shite as his rugby commentary and punditry
I quite like Lol compared to Healy or Monye.
God forgive me as an Irishman but Dallaglio was always my favourite player growing up, given I played 8. Proper tough, uncompromising karnt
Hope it all works out for him.
Loved him as a player and indeed he is better than Monye and Healey
I also played 8 though being an elderly fart my favourite 8 was Andy Ripley...........in full stride
Re: Lawrence Dallaglio given time to clear £700,000 tax debt as he tries to avoid bankruptcy
SaintK wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 8:56 am
His business acumen and management must be as shite as his rugby commentary and punditry
I quite like Lol compared to Healy or Monye.
God forgive me as an Irishman but Dallaglio was always my favourite player growing up, given I played 8. Proper tough, uncompromising karnt
Hope it all works out for him.
Comparing to Healy and Monye isn't exactly a hug bar, is it!?
£700k of unpaid tax must be either a failed scheme, deliberate short payments of hiding of income over an extended period or something similar. Not sure why criminal prosecution isn't involved here.
Re: Lawrence Dallaglio given time to clear £700,000 tax debt as he tries to avoid bankruptcy
SaintK wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 8:56 am
His business acumen and management must be as shite as his rugby commentary and punditry
I quite like Lol compared to Healy or Monye.
God forgive me as an Irishman but Dallaglio was always my favourite player growing up, given I played 8. Proper tough, uncompromising karnt
Hope it all works out for him.
Comparing to Healy and Monye isn't exactly a hug bar, is it!?
£700k of unpaid tax must be either a failed scheme, deliberate short payments of hiding of income over an extended period or something similar. Not sure why criminal prosecution isn't involved here.
If you pay the tax you owe, you don't often get prosecuted - maybe just an added fine at most. If you continue to evade tax after being investigated then they throw the book at you (unless you are rich or a corporation obvs) - See Lester Piggott.
Re: Lawrence Dallaglio given time to clear £700,000 tax debt as he tries to avoid bankruptcy
SaintK wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 8:56 am
His business acumen and management must be as shite as his rugby commentary and punditry
I quite like Lol compared to Healy or Monye.
God forgive me as an Irishman but Dallaglio was always my favourite player growing up, given I played 8. Proper tough, uncompromising karnt
Hope it all works out for him.
Loved him as a player and indeed he is better than Monye and Healey
I also played 8 though being an elderly fart my favourite 8 was Andy Ripley...........in full stride
Wasn't Ripley a 6?
Re: Lawrence Dallaglio given time to clear £700,000 tax debt as he tries to avoid bankruptcy
SaintK wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 8:56 am
His business acumen and management must be as shite as his rugby commentary and punditry
I quite like Lol compared to Healy or Monye.
God forgive me as an Irishman but Dallaglio was always my favourite player growing up, given I played 8. Proper tough, uncompromising karnt
Hope it all works out for him.
Tallest midget springs to mind...
Healy at least comes out with some sharp analysis between being an annoying twat, Lol can only muster muddling up players names and vapid cliche.
Pains me as a Wasps fan, but I'd be quite happy to never see or hear from him again.
Completely agree with that. Healy can be annoying and biased, but I've genuinely learned things from his analysis at times. It always feels like Lol just describes what we just saw in the most basic of terms.
Re: Lawrence Dallaglio given time to clear £700,000 tax debt as he tries to avoid bankruptcy
Posted: Wed May 10, 2023 1:49 pm
by assfly
Ah look we've all been there.
Re: Lawrence Dallaglio given time to clear £700,000 tax debt as he tries to avoid bankruptcy
God forgive me as an Irishman but Dallaglio was always my favourite player growing up, given I played 8. Proper tough, uncompromising karnt
Hope it all works out for him.
Loved him as a player and indeed he is better than Monye and Healey
I also played 8 though being an elderly fart my favourite 8 was Andy Ripley...........in full stride
Wasn't Ripley a 6?
Definitely wore 8 for at least some of his career. SHitty video quality but he's 8 here ( and much as I hate to say it a superb back row move and try )
Re: Lawrence Dallaglio given time to clear £700,000 tax debt as he tries to avoid bankruptcy
God forgive me as an Irishman but Dallaglio was always my favourite player growing up, given I played 8. Proper tough, uncompromising karnt
Hope it all works out for him.
Loved him as a player and indeed he is better than Monye and Healey
I also played 8 though being an elderly fart my favourite 8 was Andy Ripley...........in full stride
Wasn't Ripley a 6?
May well have played there for Rosslyn Park but all his caps for England were at 8. Uttley was 6 usually.
Ripley won 24 caps between 1972 and 1976, scoring two tries, and was selected for the triumphant 1974 Lions tour to South Africa. He did not begin playing rugby until he was 19-years-old and continued until he was 41, spending his whole career at Rosslyn Park.
The hard-running No.8 was a brilliant all-round athlete, competing in the 400m at the UK athletics Championship, and was world veteran indoor rowing champion. He found further fame on the BBC Superstars show that was a perfect showcase for his all-round sporting skills. A chartered accountant, Ripley was a colourful and popular figure who received an OBE in the 2010 Birthday Honours List.
Re: Lawrence Dallaglio given time to clear £700,000 tax debt as he tries to avoid bankruptcy
SaintK wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 9:54 am
Loved him as a player and indeed he is better than Monye and Healey
I also played 8 though being an elderly fart my favourite 8 was Andy Ripley...........in full stride
Wasn't Ripley a 6?
May well have played there for Rosslyn Park but all his caps for England were at 8. Uttley was 6 usually.
Ripley won 24 caps between 1972 and 1976, scoring two tries, and was selected for the triumphant 1974 Lions tour to South Africa. He did not begin playing rugby until he was 19-years-old and continued until he was 41, spending his whole career at Rosslyn Park.
The hard-running No.8 was a brilliant all-round athlete, competing in the 400m at the UK athletics Championship, and was world veteran indoor rowing champion. He found further fame on the BBC Superstars show that was a perfect showcase for his all-round sporting skills. A chartered accountant, Ripley was a colourful and popular figure who received an OBE in the 2010 Birthday Honours List.
He was an 8 at Park until the last year or two of his career when he moved into the 2nd row. He was also a spectacularly good 7s player as you might expect from a quality athlete.
Re: Lawrence Dallaglio given time to clear £700,000 tax debt as he tries to avoid bankruptcy
God forgive me as an Irishman but Dallaglio was always my favourite player growing up, given I played 8. Proper tough, uncompromising karnt
Hope it all works out for him.
Tallest midget springs to mind...
Healy at least comes out with some sharp analysis between being an annoying twat, Lol can only muster muddling up players names and vapid cliche.
Pains me as a Wasps fan, but I'd be quite happy to never see or hear from him again.
Completely agree with that. Healy can be annoying and biased, but I've genuinely learned things from his analysis at times. It always feels like Lol just describes what we just saw in the most basic of terms.
And often what he sees is not what happened. Just seems like a guy with half an eye on the game and a decades-old understanding of the players (and laws).
Re: Lawrence Dallaglio given time to clear £700,000 tax debt as he tries to avoid bankruptcy
God forgive me as an Irishman but Dallaglio was always my favourite player growing up, given I played 8. Proper tough, uncompromising karnt
Hope it all works out for him.
Tallest midget springs to mind...
Healy at least comes out with some sharp analysis between being an annoying twat, Lol can only muster muddling up players names and vapid cliche.
Pains me as a Wasps fan, but I'd be quite happy to never see or hear from him again.
Completely agree with that. Healy can be annoying and biased, but I've genuinely learned things from his analysis at times. It always feels like Lol just describes what we just saw in the most basic of terms.
Healey can be an excellent analyst but likes being annoying and controversial.
Re: Lawrence Dallaglio given time to clear £700,000 tax debt as he tries to avoid bankruptcy
SaintK wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 8:56 am
His business acumen and management must be as shite as his rugby commentary and punditry
I quite like Lol compared to Healy or Monye.
God forgive me as an Irishman but Dallaglio was always my favourite player growing up, given I played 8. Proper tough, uncompromising karnt
Hope it all works out for him.
He's half-Irish so you should get away with it.
Re: Lawrence Dallaglio given time to clear £700,000 tax debt as he tries to avoid bankruptcy
Posted: Thu May 11, 2023 10:54 am
by Line6 HXFX
Whenever England used to absolutely humiliate and anhialate Wales in their pomp. Dillaglio always seemed like a total gentleman and professional about it in interviews. Really humble and respectful.
Always thought "good on him" for that, whilst I was weeping into my Mrs lap.
Funny the things you remember.
Re: Lawrence Dallaglio given time to clear £700,000 tax debt as he tries to avoid bankruptcy
When he retired in 2008, Dallaglio told the Financial Times how he had made his 'first million', adding: 'I think one has a responsibility to ensure that the taxman does not get everything.
how's this going him?
Bit of a George Best. Spent all his money on cocaine, brass and tax avoidance. The rest he just wasted.
This. I think the bloke has some big issues
Re: Lawrence Dallaglio given time to clear £700,000 tax debt as he tries to avoid bankruptcy
Posted: Thu May 11, 2023 12:51 pm
by tc27
How the fuck do you end up personally owing HMRC 700k?
Re: Lawrence Dallaglio given time to clear £700,000 tax debt as he tries to avoid bankruptcy
Posted: Thu May 11, 2023 12:54 pm
by Kawazaki
tc27 wrote: ↑Thu May 11, 2023 12:51 pm
How the fuck do you end up personally owing HMRC 700k?
Don't pay any tax for 10-20 years.
Re: Lawrence Dallaglio given time to clear £700,000 tax debt as he tries to avoid bankruptcy
Posted: Thu May 11, 2023 1:33 pm
by Ymx
tc27 wrote: ↑Thu May 11, 2023 12:51 pm
How the fuck do you end up personally owing HMRC 700k?
Offshore tax avoidance scheme
IR35
Interest
Fine
Re: Lawrence Dallaglio given time to clear £700,000 tax debt as he tries to avoid bankruptcy
Posted: Thu May 11, 2023 1:36 pm
by Tichtheid
You'd need to have an income of just over £112K per year over twenty years and pay absolutely no tax in order to accumulate a tax bill of £700K.
Presumably he did pay some tax because HRMC would have been on him well before now, if that is the case then the £700K is a shortfall
Re: Lawrence Dallaglio given time to clear £700,000 tax debt as he tries to avoid bankruptcy
Posted: Thu May 11, 2023 5:27 pm
by tc27
Tichtheid wrote: ↑Thu May 11, 2023 1:36 pm
You'd need to have an income of just over £112K per year over twenty years and pay absolutely no tax in order to accumulate a tax bill of £700K.
Presumably he did pay some tax because HRMC would have been on him well before now, if that is the case then the £700K is a shortfall
I mean this is it - 700k in unpaid tax he must have being earning millions in total which to be honest surprises me.
I am assuming he set up 'Dayglo INC' as the receptacle for all his punditry fees and then did the usual tricks to try and avoid take (taking loans from the company ETC).
Re: Lawrence Dallaglio given time to clear £700,000 tax debt as he tries to avoid bankruptcy
Tichtheid wrote: ↑Thu May 11, 2023 1:36 pm
You'd need to have an income of just over £112K per year over twenty years and pay absolutely no tax in order to accumulate a tax bill of £700K.
Presumably he did pay some tax because HRMC would have been on him well before now, if that is the case then the £700K is a shortfall
I mean this is it - 700k in unpaid tax he must have being earning millions in total which to be honest surprises me.
I am assuming he set up 'Dayglo INC' as the receptacle for all his punditry fees and then did the usual tricks to try and avoid take (taking loans from the company ETC).
Not necessarily. All he had to do is earn something approaching 2m and declare no tax on it. I agree this is less likely than earning many £ millions and hiding, say, 10% of the tax due all along the way.
Anyway, I hope the c**t goes to jail. But he won't. If he was Joe Bloggs owing Council Tax, he'd be facing a custodial.
Re: Lawrence Dallaglio given time to clear £700,000 tax debt as he tries to avoid bankruptcy
Tichtheid wrote: ↑Thu May 11, 2023 1:36 pm
You'd need to have an income of just over £112K per year over twenty years and pay absolutely no tax in order to accumulate a tax bill of £700K.
Presumably he did pay some tax because HRMC would have been on him well before now, if that is the case then the £700K is a shortfall
I mean this is it - 700k in unpaid tax he must have being earning millions in total which to be honest surprises me.
I am assuming he set up 'Dayglo INC' as the receptacle for all his punditry fees and then did the usual tricks to try and avoid take (taking loans from the company ETC).
Can someone explain to me how the loans thing works?
Company issues loan to director. Which gets the money to the director avoiding dividend tax.
The director is then responsible to pay back interest (HMRC rate) on it as well as the loan.
Is the loan then written off or something? Otherwise the money ends up back in the company and they still need to pay div tax on it again?
Re: Lawrence Dallaglio given time to clear £700,000 tax debt as he tries to avoid bankruptcy
Tichtheid wrote: ↑Thu May 11, 2023 1:36 pm
You'd need to have an income of just over £112K per year over twenty years and pay absolutely no tax in order to accumulate a tax bill of £700K.
Presumably he did pay some tax because HRMC would have been on him well before now, if that is the case then the £700K is a shortfall
I mean this is it - 700k in unpaid tax he must have being earning millions in total which to be honest surprises me.
I am assuming he set up 'Dayglo INC' as the receptacle for all his punditry fees and then did the usual tricks to try and avoid take (taking loans from the company ETC).
Can someone explain to me how the loans thing works?
Company issues loan to director. Which gets the money to the director avoiding dividend tax.
The director is then responsible to pay back interest (HMRC rate) on it as well as the loan.
Is the loan then written off or something? Otherwise the money ends up back in the company and they still need to pay div tax on it again?
The Ltd co is typically domiciled offshore (IOM or Channel Isles) and different law applies in relation to repayment of loans which under these avoidance schemes just continued to grow
Re: Lawrence Dallaglio given time to clear £700,000 tax debt as he tries to avoid bankruptcy
Tichtheid wrote: ↑Thu May 11, 2023 1:36 pm
You'd need to have an income of just over £112K per year over twenty years and pay absolutely no tax in order to accumulate a tax bill of £700K.
Presumably he did pay some tax because HRMC would have been on him well before now, if that is the case then the £700K is a shortfall
I mean this is it - 700k in unpaid tax he must have being earning millions in total which to be honest surprises me.
I am assuming he set up 'Dayglo INC' as the receptacle for all his punditry fees and then did the usual tricks to try and avoid take (taking loans from the company ETC).
Can someone explain to me how the loans thing works?
Company issues loan to director. Which gets the money to the director avoiding dividend tax.
The director is then responsible to pay back interest (HMRC rate) on it as well as the loan.
Is the loan then written off or something? Otherwise the money ends up back in the company and they still need to pay div tax on it again?
In the most egregious of the tax dodging cases, the loan would be written off. A brother of one of my mates contracted in the City and did this (and other dodges) and got busted - had to pony up 70K, which I understand included penalties and interest. I'm wondering if this is why Dayglo's tax bill might be so high?
I've used director's loans from my Limited company to avoid going over a tax threshold in a given tax year, but only for relatively small sums and only for a very limited time. I don't actually pay it back per se. just convert it to dividend and then it becomes a personal tax liability I declare on my self assessment.
Re: Lawrence Dallaglio given time to clear £700,000 tax debt as he tries to avoid bankruptcy
I mean this is it - 700k in unpaid tax he must have being earning millions in total which to be honest surprises me.
I am assuming he set up 'Dayglo INC' as the receptacle for all his punditry fees and then did the usual tricks to try and avoid take (taking loans from the company ETC).
Can someone explain to me how the loans thing works?
Company issues loan to director. Which gets the money to the director avoiding dividend tax.
The director is then responsible to pay back interest (HMRC rate) on it as well as the loan.
Is the loan then written off or something? Otherwise the money ends up back in the company and they still need to pay div tax on it again?
The Ltd co is typically domiciled offshore (IOM or Channel Isles) and different law applies in relation to repayment of loans which under these avoidance schemes just continued to grow
The common IoM loophole got closed some years ago. I knew a few people using it. One chap said he was paying ~6% tax for several years on his earnings in the city.
how's this going him?