NPR

The sport has so many arbritary and silly rules, like TMOs having to find 100% concrete evidence to overrule wrong on field decisions a la Berrygate.

On the same hand, the TMO couldn't look at the VDM high tackle/offside because a try wasn't scored. Before the Scots weigh in with their defences on the matter, surely they would agree that in the spirit of the game it should have at least be looked at given the significance of it but didnt due to a technicality.

And in any big game these days, places like this and Reddit have both sets of supporters giving off about any number of decisions given/not given during a game.

Personally I'm really struggling with what the game has become. When I absolutely loved the sport, as a teenager from 2002-2010, grey areas were much more accepted, ref mistakes were not catastrophised as much (unless you were a Kiwi), and rugby just felt fun to watch.

I sympathise with how angry the Scots must be after yesterday, although supposedly Russell was offside for the hack through so where does the microscopic investigation start and end!? Either way the Scots should have been well clear of that shite French side and all of this would not have mattered.

We need to either accept a significant number of fuck ups by refs under the current rules, or simplify the rules to reduce the number of fuck ups.

Take off the rose tinted spectacles I’d say. Most 6N games were dour attritional slug fests in that period, if there was less ref abuse it was because there were fewer avenues to do so. Maybe things were different in the amateur days but I doubt it.

Just fix the fucking rucks. 90% odd have fuckers lying on top.

We're able to forensically examine every decision in detail, which we've taken to the fair a bit.

I agree that going over and over every single event in super slow-mo is pretty dull, and in many cases the dynamic nature of rugby makes it all a bit meaningless anyway.

I wonder about a cricket system, where the captain can request a review but only gets a set number of reviews (they don't use up a review if their objection is upheld or it was a reasonable review). In cricket the umpire will only call the TMO themselves for runouts and (I believe?) stampings, where it's very binary yes-no but hard to judge in real-time. It's up to the fielding captain or batsman to call on the TMO if they think the umpire got other decisions wrong.

In short, you know when you've been screwed by a decision, so appeal that, but don't go over marginal calls every time. We just go with the ref's view unless appealed, and you lose your right to appeal if you make spurious claims.

Maybe even go as far as the ref can't call the TMO at all, only one of the captains can.

It wouldn't help with the grounding call from yesterday, but it would get rid of this endless second-guessing.

It's certainly become pretty unwatchable live in a big stadium. It's virtually impossible to see what is going on and understand why decisions have been made. Add in the fact that the grounds are full of day out Instagrammers with no interest in the match and it's a complete waste of time,

Partly an age thing I think. I've fallen out of love with pro sports. It is too analytical, clinical and cynical these days. Also the availability of high quality replays doesn't help the refs who probably get more correct than ever before, which means more scrutiny on the mistakes they do make.

Dan Bigger said after the game yesterday that like or not test match rugby is decided by defence, set piece and kicking. I'm not sure that's going to bring in many new fans and it's certainly turning off long term fans.

6N away weekends are brilliant, but my least favourite part of the weekend is the match itself, especially the stadium "experience".

One thing that is now accepted is the incursion into the playing area of staff -- medical, water, god-knows what, clearly without the express permission of the referee. The on-field referee used to be the absolute arbiter but now seems to have been reduced to just an after-thought.

Begbie wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 11:05 am Dan Bigger said after the game yesterday that like or not test match rugby is decided by defence, set piece and kicking. I'm not sure that's going to bring in many new fans and it's certainly turning off long term fans.

6N away weekends are brilliant, but my least favourite part of the weekend is the match itself, especially the stadium "experience".

I have to concur, the powers that be need to find a way to change the focus from defence to attack. As a spectator sport it is dying on its feet and if they dont do something soon it will struggle like hell to grow the game, if anything it will die a long slow death.

Begbie wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 11:05 am Dan Bigger said after the game yesterday that like or not test match rugby is decided by defence, set piece and kicking. I'm not sure that's going to bring in many new fans and it's certainly turning off long term fans.

6N away weekends are brilliant, but my least favourite part of the weekend is the match itself, especially the stadium "experience".

Self-perpetuating isn't it. The more they tell themselves that's how international rugby is played the more they prepare to play that way and lo, so the games turn out to be dominated by the things they practice all week.

Obviously there was a gulf in class, but some of the minnows at the world cup caused problems for tier 1 nations simply by playing more open styles (styles I remember more teams playing between '04 - '11) that I guess the bigger teams are completely unused to facing at this point.

Begbie wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 11:05 am Dan Bigger said after the game yesterday that like or not test match rugby is decided by defence, set piece and kicking. I'm not sure that's going to bring in many new fans and it's certainly turning off long term fans.

6N away weekends are brilliant, but my least favourite part of the weekend is the match itself, especially the stadium "experience".

Pretty much. Big things that ought to be fixable at stadiums for me:

- queues to get in. It should not take half an hour plus to get through the turnstiles and never used to when they were manned. People really struggle using them, there needs to be more.
- queues at the bar. Again, it shouldn’t take half an hour to get served. I only wanted a couple of bottles of water last Saturday and nearly missed kick off.
- day trippers. Can they just lump them all together in one place to take selfies and not watch the game to their hearts’ content.
- better big screens and TMO audio.
- close the bars during play.

Oh and send some sniffer dogs round, very bored of coked up blokes.

Berry should be sacked. Its not the first time he fucked up a test match.

Yup. Was really looking forward to this 6N after the WC which I thought was awful for any number of reasons. But it has been crap. Probably had the worst experience I’ve had at an international yesterday due to obnoxious people and not knowing what the fuck was going on.

Even the post match celebrations in the bars are a shadow of what they used to be.

All I all, it’s driving me away rapidly

Slick wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 12:52 pm Yup. Was really looking forward to this 6N after the WC which I thought was awful for any number of reasons. But it has been crap. Probably had the worst experience I’ve had at an international yesterday due to obnoxious people and not knowing what the fuck was going on.

Even the post match celebrations in the bars are a shadow of what they used to be.

All I all, it’s driving me away rapidly

i) we're getting older and it's harder to tolerate wankers

ii) 6N fans have long been proud of the 'atmosphere' of the tournament with the travelling weekends a highlight. That atmosphere has to attract those who prefer to partake of it through an open mouth.

iii) Nick Berry

Rugby is made up of several things and has been since about Day 3: defence, set pieces and kicking. Biggar is an idiot.

Older pedantic refs only, no former pro scrum halves or young nerds trying to be mates with the players. Enforce laws as written, force players to adapt.

I'd love to see games where there's no hands allowed as soon as an attacking player makes contact at the breakdown, must step over to steal, attacking players aren't allowed to anchor themselves to the tackled player, shoulders above hips. Encourage a pushing contest that invites defenders to send a couple in to drive over the ball... huge reward, more easily done without an attacking player flopped down or bracing himself with chest six inches from the floor.

One defender allowed to screw things up is the key issue, imo. Slows the play down enough for defenders to get onside and in position, which often leads to the attacking team going with a safe pod of forwards (sometimes caught behind the gainline) that results in the defence not having to move much to maintain their shape. And the cycle repeats...

I rarely watch it nowadays..... it's lost it's appeal

Kiwias wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 11:18 am One thing that is now accepted is the incursion into the playing area of staff -- medical, water, god-knows what, clearly without the express permission of the referee. The on-field referee used to be the absolute arbiter but now seems to have been reduced to just an after-thought.

This.

Since when is a mere video consultant a "referee"?

They are a detriment to the game, not a benefit.

It's amazing how much it is improved by recording it and fast forwarding through the stoppages. But yeh live it is mainly frustrating now.

petej wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 10:38 am Partly an age thing I think. I've fallen out of love with pro sports. It is too analytical, clinical and cynical these days. Also the availability of high quality replays doesn't help the refs who probably get more correct than ever before, which means more scrutiny on the mistakes they do make.

Very much this. I've gone back to watching grass roots rugby instead of the pro game, and I enjoy it a hell of a lot more

Prembore wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 10:38 am

petej wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 10:38 am Partly an age thing I think. I've fallen out of love with pro sports. It is too analytical, clinical and cynical these days. Also the availability of high quality replays doesn't help the refs who probably get more correct than ever before, which means more scrutiny on the mistakes they do make.

Very much this. I've gone back to watching grass roots rugby instead of the pro game, and I enjoy it a hell of a lot more

I hear you, very much the same

Slick wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 12:52 pm Yup. Was really looking forward to this 6N after the WC which I thought was awful for any number of reasons. But it has been crap. Probably had the worst experience I’ve had at an international yesterday due to obnoxious people and not knowing what the fuck was going on.

Even the post match celebrations in the bars are a shadow of what they used to be.

All I all, it’s driving me away rapidly

I started going to 6N in 1968. I have barely missed a game at Murrayfield since, except when I lived abroad.

I am not going this 6N for the first time. This used be 'our thing' with one of my sons. Now we go to more Edinburgh away matches instead and have a much better time. Plus my non rugby wife and other son will tag along on these trips for the weekend away.

It may be my age, but the enjoyment is just not there anymore to justify the time and cost. Yet I still make the four hour round trip for Edinburgh matches where I see chums who we have been going to matches with for years and years.

weegie01 wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 2:43 pm

Slick wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 12:52 pm Yup. Was really looking forward to this 6N after the WC which I thought was awful for any number of reasons. But it has been crap. Probably had the worst experience I’ve had at an international yesterday due to obnoxious people and not knowing what the fuck was going on.

Even the post match celebrations in the bars are a shadow of what they used to be.

All I all, it’s driving me away rapidly

I started going to 6N in 1968. I have barely missed a game at Murrayfield since, except when I lived abroad.

I am not going this 6N for the first time. This used be 'our thing' with one of my sons. Now we go to more Edinburgh away matches instead and have a much better time. Plus my non rugby wife and other son will tag along on these trips for the weekend away.

It may be my age, but the enjoyment is just not there anymore to justify the time and cost. Yet I still make the four hour round trip for Edinburgh matches where I see chums who we have been going to matches with for years and years.

I wrote my complaint letter to the SRU this morning...

Slick wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 12:52 pm Yup. Was really looking forward to this 6N after the WC which I thought was awful for any number of reasons. But it has been crap. Probably had the worst experience I’ve had at an international yesterday due to obnoxious people and not knowing what the fuck was going on.

Even the post match celebrations in the bars are a shadow of what they used to be.

All I all, it’s driving me away rapidly

God I pity the poor fucker who has to sit next to you at the Calcutta Cup ya miserable bastard.

I am reliably informed by every NH media pundit that the 6N is THE GREATEST RUGBY TOURNAMENT ON EARTH.

Perhaps if everyone just lowered their expectations a tad, perhaps we wouldn't take it so seriously when there are issues?

HKCJ wrote: Tue Feb 13, 2024 7:10 am

Slick wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 12:52 pm Yup. Was really looking forward to this 6N after the WC which I thought was awful for any number of reasons. But it has been crap. Probably had the worst experience I’ve had at an international yesterday due to obnoxious people and not knowing what the fuck was going on.

Even the post match celebrations in the bars are a shadow of what they used to be.

All I all, it’s driving me away rapidly

God I pity the poor fucker who has to sit next to you at the Calcutta Cup ya miserable bastard.

I said to N as we walked out, if HKCJ had been here today their would have been fireworks.

All things considered - I think it's far more watchable now than it was back in the 60s, 70s and 80s. Could be improved with better management of scrums and some minor rule changes to cut down the 'kick tennis'.

petej wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 10:38 am

Partly an age thing I think.

I've fallen out of love with pro sports. It is too analytical, clinical and cynical these days. Also the availability of high quality replays doesn't help the refs who probably get more correct than ever before, which means more scrutiny on the mistakes they do make.

I think so - and nowadays, we have access to so other many things to watch/enjoy

mat the expat wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2024 2:55 am

petej wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 10:38 am

Partly an age thing I think.

I've fallen out of love with pro sports. It is too analytical, clinical and cynical these days. Also the availability of high quality replays doesn't help the refs who probably get more correct than ever before, which means more scrutiny on the mistakes they do make.

I think so - and nowadays, we have access to so other many things to watch/enjoy

For me, it's police footage. I'm obsessed. ... at least in that realm I get to see people who break the laws get appropriately punished.

Niegs wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2024 7:19 am

mat the expat wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2024 2:55 am

petej wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2024 10:38 am I've fallen out of love with pro sports. It is too analytical, clinical and cynical these days. Also the availability of high quality replays doesn't help the refs who probably get more correct than ever before, which means more scrutiny on the mistakes they do make.

I think so - and nowadays, we have access to so other many things to watch/enjoy

For me, it's police footage. I'm obsessed. ... at least in that realm I get to see people who break the laws get appropriately punished.

I've been watching heaps of those recently -- as you say, it is therapeutic to see arrogant entitled arseholes brought down a few pegs.

Kiwias wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2024 7:46 am it is therapeutic to see arrogant entitled arseholes brought down a few pegs.

The 2023 World Cup quarterfinals do the job for me.

assfly wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2024 8:27 am

Kiwias wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2024 7:46 am it is therapeutic to see arrogant entitled arseholes brought down a few pegs.

The 2023 World Cup quarterfinals do the job for me.

A bit harsh on the Irish lads. They seemed like good guys to me.

Ovals wrote: Tue Feb 13, 2024 4:07 pm All things considered - I think it's far more watchable now than it was back in the 60s, 70s and 80s. Could be improved with better management of scrums and some minor rule changes to cut down the 'kick tennis'.

When a game of rugby breaks out it almost certainly is, but it's all the shit that goes on around it now that ultimately, for me, makes it almost unwatchable.

Like I've said before, I have a much more satisfying day going to watch my local club where the standard is obviously a lot worse, it's not just about whats on the pitch.

assfly wrote: Tue Feb 13, 2024 7:41 am I am reliably informed by every NH media pundit that the 6N is THE GREATEST RUGBY TOURNAMENT ON EARTH.

Perhaps if everyone just lowered their expectations a tad, perhaps we wouldn't take it so seriously when there are issues?

A lot of that has very little to do withthe action on the field.

Slick wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2024 9:07 am

Ovals wrote: Tue Feb 13, 2024 4:07 pm All things considered - I think it's far more watchable now than it was back in the 60s, 70s and 80s. Could be improved with better management of scrums and some minor rule changes to cut down the 'kick tennis'.

When a game of rugby breaks out it almost certainly is, but it's all the shit that goes on around it now that ultimately, for me, makes it almost unwatchable.

Like I've said before, I have a much more satisfying day going to watch my local club where the standard is obviously a lot worse, it's not just about whats on the pitch.

I've watched a fair bit more of the Premiership this season - and it's been hugely entertaining - lots of great rugby, especially from Saints, Bath and Quins. It's the best I can remember it being.

Kiwias wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2024 7:46 am
I've been watching heaps of those recently -- as you say, it is therapeutic to see arrogant entitled arseholes brought down a few pegs.

I now want foreign bodycam footage to know if K9 handlers all around the world use high-pitched "Whoseagoodboy!!?!?" baby talk with their dogs, because all US cops seem to regardless of region.

On the flip side, it's frustrating that Yanks haven't figured out pulling over to the right and stop as soon as you see/hear lights/sirens!