NPR

OK, who do ya reckon's in the running to make Razor's first ever test squad for the July tests against England and Fiji?

I'm assuming the following players will be unavailable due to injury: Will Jordan, Zarn Sullivan, Cam Roigard and Josh Lord. And I don't think Fabian Holland's eligible for selection until next year.

So fwiw, here's my early doors squad of 32, made up of 18 forwards and 14 backs:

Cody Taylor, Samisoni Tauke'aho, Asafa Aumua
Ethan de Groot, Xavier Numia, Tyrel Lomax, Fletcher Newell, Tamaiti Williams
Scott Barrett, Patrick Tuipulotu, Tupou Vaa'i
Ardie Savea, Sam Cane, Dalton Papali'i, Hoskins Sotutu, Samipeni Finau, Akira Ioane, Peter Lakai

TJ Perenara, Folau Fakatava, Cortez Ratima
Damian McKenzie, Stephen Perofeta
Jordie Barrett, Rieko Ioane, Anton Lienert-Brown, Billy Proctor
Beauden Barrett, Mark Tele'a, Sevu Reece, Emoni Narawa, Ruben Love

Unlucky: Shaun Stevenson, Caleb Clarke, Quinn Tupaea, Finlay Christie, Luke Jacobson, Ethan Blackadder, Cullen Grace, Quinten Strange, Ofa Tu'ungafasi, George Bower

Bolters? Yeah, nah... Daniel Rona, Cam Millar, Noah Hotham, Brayden Iose, Jamie Hannah, Sam Darry, Devan Flanders, George Bell

Get in!

JK said on last week's Breakdown that he'd heard Cane has a long-term injury, so if he's out I'd probably replace him with Jacobson.

Or maybe a young lock? (I'm bummed that Lord's hurt again.)

Not enough Barretts

Your 'ins' include Paddy Fatbastard. Tried, tested and fallen short in tests so far.

Your 'outs' include several players who have already demonstrated versatility at top level... (Stephenson, Blackadder and Jacobson) and I think Razor would want that in his players.

On top of that is the concept of rebuilding along with the need to retain some experience for stability. England won't be an easy opponent but you want to start getting games into newer players and combos now with a finite number of tests available over the 4 year cycle. Foster chopped and changed ceaselessly, not allowing combos to bed in. History suggests Razor won't do that but he will try to develop his back up players so that they can slot in... I think he'll have an eye on the future more than hanging onto the past too much.

I wouldn't rule out the possibility of Mo'unga being lured back, either... if NZR can swing him in around his contract in Japan.

Yeah, lock's the one position that has me quite concerned. I had to hold my nose while picking Tuipulotu, and don't see him as any more than an experienced stop-gap, but we're not exactly flush for choice in the second row. It's impossible to replace two genuine all time greats of course, and I'd really hoped that Lord could stay injury-free and nail down a test day spot, but it's not to be... not just yet at least. I'd pick Holland if he was available. Darry's probably still a year or two away, Parkinson's seemingly perma-crocked, and I'm not sold on Ah Kuoi or any of the other Supe options. And Scooter's ongoing back issues are a real worry.

I think Razor will probably go with Blackadder and/or Grace, but imo neither of them has done enough this year. Would be happy if Jacobson makes the cut, though.

I'm really disappointed for and over Zarn's knee injury, BTW. I hoped to see him in the frame this year.

Guy Smiley wrote: Sun May 12, 2024 5:30 am I'm really disappointed for and over Zarn's knee injury, BTW. I hoped to see him in the frame this year.

Yep.

I'm not overly convinced on Perofeta myself, think he may get there, but as a Naki man I don't even think he best 10 here. Just my opinion.
But in general pretty hard to argue with most of selections see I also someone who not convinced about Stephenson, not sure he has actually been tried and tested at higher level.
Kind of interested to see how Love goes at higher level too, I actually think he's got highest ceiling of all our 15 options on country.

Dan54 wrote: Sun May 12, 2024 7:40 pm I'm not overly convinced on Perofeta myself, think he may get there, but as a Naki man I don't even think he best 10 here. Just my opinion.
But in general pretty hard to argue with most of selections see I also someone who not convinced about Stephenson, not sure he has actually been tried and tested at higher level.
Kind of interested to see how Love goes at higher level too, I actually think he's got highest ceiling of all our 15 options on country.

I feel the same about Perofeta, Dan. Even after watching him since his school days, I'm still not fully sold. Think his ability to cover 10 and 15 will count in his favour, and don't really rate any of the other young contenders to do a better job than him just yet. Maybe Razor will decide that Love can play that utility role.

One young player who impressed me last year, after only a handful of NPC games, was Alex Harford of Canterbury. I think he landed in the Blues extended squad this year, but hasn't played at Supe level yet. He struck me as an unusually composed, skillful player, and I hope we see a lot more of him.

All Blacks openside flanker Sam Cane has been granted a release from his contract with NZ Rugby a year before it was set to expire, and will play solely in Japan from 2025.

He has also confirmed he won't be the captain of the All Blacks under new coach Scott Robertson...

Robertson, who is expected to name his 32-man All Blacks squad on June 24, has yet to reveal who will replace Cane as the captain...

“It’s part of the natural process that happens in rugby. I had my time as captain and it was a huge honour and privilege,” Cane said.

...“After discussing this at length with Sam, I fully understand the reasons behind his decision and support him,'' Robertson said.

Good luck to Cane... he was always battling with being in the shadow of McCaw really and must have done it tough with some of the negativity thrown his way. Wasn't my favourite player by a long chalk but I think he showed real character and strength over the last couple of years coming back from serious injury.

This retirement throws open the backrow debate though, right?

Any money on Ardie going back to 7? Has Sotutu delivered consistency this year? ( I simply haven't been able to watch much rugby to know)

I don't think Jacobson is test standard.. at least not at elite level. He's Taine Randall in disguise.

Love to see what Razor could do with a talent like Hoskins Sotutu... might be like Zinzan.... finally gets appreciated later in life...

Grandpa wrote: Mon May 13, 2024 7:00 pm I don't think Jacobson is test standard.. at least not at elite level. He's Taine Randall in disguise.

Love to see what Razor could do with a talent like Hoskins Sotutu... might be like Zinzan.... finally gets appreciated later in life...

I actually think with Sotutu it's more about (maybe like Zinzan) he learning how to use the skills he got as he matures.

Grandpa wrote: Mon May 13, 2024 7:00 pm I don't think Jacobson is test standard.. at least not at elite level. He's Taine Randall in disguise.

Love to see what Razor could do with a talent like Hoskins Sotutu... might be like Zinzan.... finally gets appreciated later in life...

Yet, when he plays against flankers who are supposedly "up to test standard" he betters them? Cane was the same.

Enzedder wrote: Mon May 13, 2024 8:02 pm

Grandpa wrote: Mon May 13, 2024 7:00 pm I don't think Jacobson is test standard.. at least not at elite level. He's Taine Randall in disguise.

Love to see what Razor could do with a talent like Hoskins Sotutu... might be like Zinzan.... finally gets appreciated later in life...

Yet, when he plays against flankers who are supposedly "up to test standard" he betters them? Cane was the same.

At test level he gets found out against the top teams. He doesn't have the physicality to be an All Black six or eight... he's ok at Super level. But much prefer Finau at six. And hopefully a Razor inspired Sotutu or another big dynamo at eight... Jacobson has neither the physical or the speed... he's an honest toiler though...

Dan54 wrote: Mon May 13, 2024 8:01 pm

Grandpa wrote: Mon May 13, 2024 7:00 pm I don't think Jacobson is test standard.. at least not at elite level. He's Taine Randall in disguise.

Love to see what Razor could do with a talent like Hoskins Sotutu... might be like Zinzan.... finally gets appreciated later in life...

I actually think with Sotutu it's more about (maybe like Zinzan) he learning how to use the skills he got as he matures.

I agree.. and finding a coach that trusts him... then he might trust himself.. he has the tools...

Just heard that Cane's unavailable for the July tests due to his back injury, but he should be fit for TRC consideration in August.

So, who gets the vacant spot? If Robertson picks Savea, Papali'i and Lakai I think openside's still well covered. Very tempted to pick a promising young lock instead. Darry or Hannah, perhaps?

Gumboot wrote: Tue May 14, 2024 12:40 am Just heard that Cane's unavailable for the July tests due to his back injury, but he should be fit for TRC consideration in August.

So, who gets the vacant spot? If Robertson picks Savea, Papali'i and Lakai I think openside's still well covered. Very tempted to pick a promising young lock instead. Darry or Hannah, perhaps?

I would not have Tuipulotu in the squad -- as others have mentioned, he has had more than enough chances to lock himself in the ABs but instead he let Scott Barrett leapfrog into the 3rd lock behind the two greats. Darry or Hannah would be good.

Sotutu, Blackadder, Grace, Finau would all do well under Razor.

Article quoting Razor on Cane and a few hints about how he's looking to shape his team here...

Scott Robertson has responded to incumbent captain Sam Cane's announcement that he'll be retiring from test rugby at the end of this season. The incoming All Black coach revealed he'd had conversations not only with Cane, but also hinted that he'd spoken to his preferred successor.

Robertson described Cane's involvement in the upcoming test season as a "good question".

"He's coming back from injury, he's got to perform to be involved in the All Blacks and he knows that. "

Cane has cut short his contract with NZ Rugby early, signing a contract extension with Japanese Top League side Suntory Sungoliath.

"He's been involved in leadership meetings already, he's got that leadership quality of being able to say the right thing at the right time. When you've played 95 tests ... you know what it takes. He's available and if he performs and it's up to me to pick him."

"Look, there's conversations that have been had and discussions with players. That's all I can say," he said when asked if he had informed the new captain of their promotion up the ranks.

Robertson also confirmed that he would be naming a 32-man squad for the opening three tests of the season, with two against England in Dunedin and Auckland, then against Fiji in San Diego.

"We're just making sure we get our combinations right, like who can play in two positions. What will help us win those three tests ... how do we manage those positions, combinations - that's been our work at the moment."

Will Jordan on track with his recovery, too

Is Dalton Papali'i really Cane's successor at openside? I've never been convinced that he's a test starter, tbh. Assuming Razor goes with someone like Finau, Akira or Grace at blindside, I think I'd prefer Ardie to move back to 7 and Sotutu to start at 8, and keep Papali'i on the bench. Not really sure why I don't rate him more highly... what am I missing?

Gumboot wrote: Wed May 15, 2024 7:56 pm Is Dalton Papali'i really Cane's successor at openside? I've never been convinced that he's a test starter, tbh. Assuming Razor goes with someone like Finau, Akira or Grace at blindside, I think I'd prefer Ardie to move back to 7 and Sotutu to start at 8, and keep Papali'i on the bench. Not really sure why I don't rate him more highly... what am I missing?

Ardie at 7 for me please. I’m in the same boat as you re Papali’i.

Shaun Stevenson's feeble tackle effort during the Rebels first try reminded me of his soft defence vs the Wallabies in Dunedin last year, when he was largely responsible for letting in both of their early tries. Just saying.

Gumboot wrote: Fri May 17, 2024 10:04 pm Shaun Stevenson's feeble tackle effort during the Rebels first try reminded me of his soft defence vs the Wallabies in Dunedin last year, when he was largely responsible for letting in both of their early tries. Just saying.

Yes, I noticed that too.

Patrick Tuipulotu has blown his right knee and is out for 6-7 weeks.

That means unless Scooter's back problem comes right in a hurry, our senior lock to face England will be Tupou Vaa'i.

And with Lord also out, I don't think there are any other contenders left with test experience.

Gulp!

Shit, even though I am not a great fan of Tuipulotu.

Likewise.

So if Razor and co are forced to bring in a couple of newbies, who would you want? I think Quinten Strange got picked for an ABs squad a few years ago, but then got injured before getting any game time and hasn't had another chance since. Maybe Sam Darry? Not sure any of the other young'uns would be up to the job yet, tbh...

Gumboot wrote: Sun Jun 09, 2024 4:31 am Likewise.

So if Razor and co are forced to bring in a couple of newbies, who would you want? I think Quinten Strange got picked for an ABs squad a few years ago, but then got injured before getting any game time and hasn't had another chance since. Maybe Sam Darry? Not sure any of the other young'uns would be up to the job yet, tbh...

Walker-Leawere has looked promising this SR series and a yes on Sam Darry. Strange deserves another chance and perhaps Hannah as an outlier.

Gumboot wrote: Fri May 17, 2024 10:04 pm Shaun Stevenson's feeble tackle effort during the Rebels first try reminded me of his soft defence vs the Wallabies in Dunedin last year, when he was largely responsible for letting in both of their early tries. Just saying.

Agreed - like Sevu Reece, his defence is found wanting on many occasions. I doubt he will even be an AB due to that because test rugby will find him out in an instant

Enzedder wrote: Sun Jun 09, 2024 7:25 pm

Gumboot wrote: Fri May 17, 2024 10:04 pm Shaun Stevenson's feeble tackle effort during the Rebels first try reminded me of his soft defence vs the Wallabies in Dunedin last year, when he was largely responsible for letting in both of their early tries. Just saying.

Agreed - like Sevu Reece, his defence is found wanting on many occasions. I doubt he will even be an AB due to that because test rugby will find him out in an instant

Can't say I've noticed his defence being as consistently flakey as Stevenson's tbh. Who would you pick on the right wing for the ABs if it was between those two?

(Edit: correct answer is Narawa, of course)

Gumboot wrote: Sun Jun 09, 2024 8:06 pm

Enzedder wrote: Sun Jun 09, 2024 7:25 pm

Gumboot wrote: Fri May 17, 2024 10:04 pm Shaun Stevenson's feeble tackle effort during the Rebels first try reminded me of his soft defence vs the Wallabies in Dunedin last year, when he was largely responsible for letting in both of their early tries. Just saying.

Agreed - like Sevu Reece, his defence is found wanting on many occasions. I doubt he will even be an AB due to that because test rugby will find him out in an instant

Can't say I've noticed his defence being as consistently flakey as Stevenson's tbh. Who would you pick on the right wing for the ABs if it was between those two?

(Edit: correct answer is Narawa, of course)

Reece is several scores ahead on the try table playing in an abysmal season for the 'Saders. He's popped up everywhere in attack, gone looking for work, filled in at the base of the ruck on countless occasions in broken play...

what more do you want from a winger?

What more do I want - someone who can score tries (tick for Sevu), defend (flakey) and kick (not very good). Stevenson scores tries, kicks well, is great under the high ball but is flakey on defence.

Narawa is streets ahead of Sevu in strike rate for tries and defence - not sure about his kicking though

Enzedder wrote: Sun Jun 09, 2024 8:26 pm What more do I want - someone who can score tries (tick for Sevu), defend (flakey) and kick (not very good). Stevenson scores tries, kicks well, is great under the high ball but is flakey on defence.

Narawa is streets ahead of Sevu in strike rate for tries and defence - not sure about his kicking though

Are you trying to say we are running out of Barretts, wonder what their mum is up to this year

Jethro wrote: Sun Jun 09, 2024 8:51 pm

Enzedder wrote: Sun Jun 09, 2024 8:26 pm What more do I want - someone who can score tries (tick for Sevu), defend (flakey) and kick (not very good). Stevenson scores tries, kicks well, is great under the high ball but is flakey on defence.

Narawa is streets ahead of Sevu in strike rate for tries and defence - not sure about his kicking though

Are you trying to say we are running out of Barretts, wonder what their mum is up to this year

At this rate we'll be down to just the one Barrett starting against England, with Jordie carrying the weight of their mighty dynasty on his lonely shoulders.

Jethro wrote: Sun Jun 09, 2024 8:51 pm

Enzedder wrote: Sun Jun 09, 2024 8:26 pm What more do I want - someone who can score tries (tick for Sevu), defend (flakey) and kick (not very good). Stevenson scores tries, kicks well, is great under the high ball but is flakey on defence.

Narawa is streets ahead of Sevu in strike rate for tries and defence - not sure about his kicking though

Are you trying to say we are running out of Barretts, wonder what their mum is up to this year

We have almost run out of Barretts already. 1 proper one left, one is too old and one is broken.

It’s a bit cheeky for any supporter of the Chiefs to accuse any other player of flakiness when their team has proven to be the flakiest of Cadbury Flake chokers over the last few years.

Maybe it’s the coach. You can’t trust those McMillans.

Coaches have nothing to do with the results of teams.

It's all on the players.

NZRU should just lift their Japan based players banning.

England squad for the tour of Japan and NZ:

Forwards: Fin Baxter, Dan Cole, Alex Coles, Chandler Cunningham-South, Ben Curry, Tom Curry, Theo Dan, Alex Dombrandt, Ben Earl, Charlie Ewels, Jamie George (capt), Joe Heyes, Maro Itoje, Joe Marler, George Martin, Gabriel Oghre, Bevan Rodd, Ethan Roots, Will Stuart, Sam Underhill.

Backs: Joe Carpenter, Fraser Dingwall, Immanuel Feyi-Waboso, Tommy Freeman, George Furbank, Ollie Lawrence, Alex Mitchell, Luke Northmore, Harry Randall, Tom Roebuck, Henry Slade, Ollie Sleightholme, Fin Smith, Marcus Smith, Ben Spencer, Freddie Steward.

When does Razor name his first squad? Usually just after the soup final right?

Flockwitt wrote: Tue Jun 11, 2024 11:49 pm When does Razor name his first squad? Usually just after the soup final right?

Yep, Monday the 24th. Not sure what time, though.