Adventures in kids coaching

[SaintK]

Took my boy (6) to the new local club but couldn't even get him to join in for a few minutes, just clung to me and said he didn't like it. Had a little chat in the car before realising I was letting my frustration get the better of me and not being fair on him, so packed up and went home. Think I'm just going to have to let him decide in his own time - I'm fine about that, just a bit disappointed about missing out on the social bit myself in a new area.

Is 6 a tad too young?
My son and daughter were virtually bought up at my rugby club. Would run around the place while I played and my wife was making the after match meal. We were lucky that quite a few of us had kids at roughly the same time so there were always a group of them growing up throwing a ball around or just messing about. Neither of mine showed much interest in formal mini rugby until they were about 8. I can just about remember it all as my son is 38 this year.and still playing 1st team

[Raggs]

We're looking at starting an u5s group, ready for those coming from the local didi rugby group. u6/u7 is the usual starting point, but plenty come later.

[laurent]

We have U6 and U8

FFR boosted numbers with U4 which is kindergarten with squishy oval balls... basically kids running around doing gymkana type stuff it's fun but you need a lot of volunteers.

[Slick]

Took my boy (6) to the new local club but couldn't even get him to join in for a few minutes, just clung to me and said he didn't like it. Had a little chat in the car before realising I was letting my frustration get the better of me and not being fair on him, so packed up and went home. Think I'm just going to have to let him decide in his own time - I'm fine about that, just a bit disappointed about missing out on the social bit myself in a new area.

Is 6 a tad too young?
My son and daughter were virtually bought up at my rugby club. Would run around the place while I played and my wife was making the after match meal. We were lucky that quite a few of us had kids at roughly the same time so there were always a group of them growing up throwing a ball around or just messing about. Neither of mine showed much interest in formal mini rugby until they were about 8. I can just about remember it all as my son is 38 this year.and still playing 1st team

That's exactly how I was brought up.

It probably is a bit young, and it's nothing more than running about, no real rugby. It's why I'm pretty easy about it all. The wee shite.

[Niegs]

Why did I sign on to be youth coordinator?!

U18 coaches have had a roster for two weeks, didn't know who all their boys were last night (mixed them with men's training). Didn't tell them there's a game on Sunday but had initial schedule for more than a week. League changed that and sent out an incomplete 7s schedule for this weekend on Weds and the guy said I'm away Thurs so if you need to change, do so but tell the refs. Duh. One team is driving three hours and didn't notice they only had one game of 7s until I pointed it out. The other two teams haven't responded to my messages.

I guess I shouldn't have assumed they'd call around to everyone themselves? Thankfully my U14 and U16 coaches are switched on. Minis doing really well.

But people wonder why Canadian rugby is dipping...

[laurent]

Why did I sign on to be youth coordinator?!

U18 coaches have had a roster for two weeks, didn't know who all their boys were last night (mixed them with men's training). Didn't tell them there's a game on Sunday but had initial schedule for more than a week. League changed that and sent out an incomplete 7s schedule for this weekend on Weds and the guy said I'm away Thurs so if you need to change, do so but tell the refs. Duh. One team is driving three hours and didn't notice they only had one game of 7s until I pointed it out. The other two teams haven't responded to my messages.

I guess I shouldn't have assumed they'd call around to everyone themselves? Thankfully my U14 and U16 coaches are switched on. Minis doing really well.

But people wonder why Canadian rugby is dipping...

Hard job ...

Restarted my U6/U8 this Wednesday. Not to many (there was twice as many last week). the U10 are in ok numbers for the rest U12 U14 we are going to struggle with high numbers

Our sponsors gave backpacks

[Niegs]

I've been given a new challenge with my role as youth coordinator: grant proposal writing.

Putting this out there to gather/consider a bunch of different perspectives... if you were given 15k to get more volunteers for your club, what would you do?

[laurent]

Our work is being seen :)

[laurent]

I've been given a new challenge with my role as youth coordinator: grant proposal writing.

Putting this out there to gather/consider a bunch of different perspectives... if you were given 15k to get more volunteers for your club, what would you do?

If you pay them they are no longer volunteers ... ;)

Not sure I could ask our secretary next wednesday (we are on a break ) however she may be a bit down (her father is very ill and may be gone when she comes back).

[Niegs]

I've been given a new challenge with my role as youth coordinator: grant proposal writing.

Putting this out there to gather/consider a bunch of different perspectives... if you were given 15k to get more volunteers for your club, what would you do?

If you pay them they are no longer volunteers ... ;)

Not sure I could ask our secretary next wednesday (we are on a break ) however she may be a bit down (her father is very ill and may be gone when she comes back).

Thanks. Application due today. We've decided to go for a Volunteer Manager who can do the outreach, sales pitches, thank-yous that I'm pretty crap at.

I'm also going to recommend they roll it into my job (only a temp), as the volunteer manager would do more work in the off- and pre-seasons and not so much now during the season where I'm far too busy with admin/game management/events.

[Niegs]

Fascinating comments in this. I lean strongly on 'keep it informal' until mid-teens. Kids will compete for every moment and keep the scores in their heads / talk about it in-game. Tracking results and awarding the winners is, at best, a hollow victory and more likely to see coaches exclude kids who spoil their chances of winning. ... I'm reminded of the U13s I had one year. Most of them didn't make the 1st XV in their final two years and the little chubby one who struggled to keep up ended up becoming the starting 9. He'd have been the sort of kid benched in a U13 7s team by coaches focused on winning.

[Sinkers]

Interesting looking at the comments that it seems the ex players hated it while the kids coaches, pe teachers etc supported it.

I’m sure there are child psychologists out there who can tell us why it’s good.

Thinking about that and your comments, IMHO:
- every kid deserves to play regardless of ability. If the game only focused on high ability, senior clubs wouldn’t have 3rd or 4th grades. You never know how kids will develops and even if they don’t all become stars, there’s nothing wrong with coaching a kid towards a lifetime of enjoying playing in the 3rds.
- there’s no replacement for actual game time when it comes to learning.
- downside is this can lead to some demoralizing losses
- playing a properly mixed side or against suitable level of opposition helps here (we don’t have the non-scoring idea so that’s the closest we get)
- internal games and friendlies we’ll often use alternative scoring methods to reword skills we want to see develop. Ie try, tackle or pass are all one point
- Russel Earnshaw (?) told us that he’s even used this in age grade 6 nations with the agreement of the other coaches. (U18 England v Scotland rings a bell)

[Raggs]

Gave up discussing it with one guy who seemed convinced (now as an adult), he knew the exact score in his u7 and u8 games.

I struggle to keep up with the score when I'm playing now, sure as hell don't believe all my kids know it as U11s, if they did they wouldn't come and ask me.

Those that do manage to keep track, they think, would still rather play regardless of result.

[Niegs]

Gave up discussing it with one guy who seemed convinced (now as an adult), he knew the exact score in his u7 and u8 games.

I struggle to keep up with the score when I'm playing now, sure as hell don't believe all my kids know it as U11s, if they did they wouldn't come and ask me.

Those that do manage to keep track, they think, would still rather play regardless of result.

I saw you in the thread!

I liked the idea of keeping track of desired skills, like linebreaks, successful tackles, offloads, etc. Much more work, but maybe something to keep parents occupied. Wouldn't want to use it to say Johnny must get x many or a % but reading some stuff on why video games are so engaging/addictive, kids love the freedom to explore and challenges. I've done 'attack line scavenger hunt' (and pass type too) for adults that challenged them to explore / cross off a full range of possibilities, discouraging them from doing the same one or favs over and over.

[laurent]

Quite frankly for the youngest the play and enjoyment is more important in my mind.

I always go for the positive whatever it is I Wish I could spend more time with the kids.
I will likely go back to helping the kids soon as the league will be over in 5 weeks or our senior side.

(posted on the French thread 3 of our U15 (girls) got selected for the regional team

[Raggs]

I like the idea of scoring all sorts, but just don't have the ability to set that up and keep it up!

[Sinkers]

I like the idea of scoring all sorts, but just don't have the ability to set that up and keep it up!

We often don’t actually count the scores
Just come up with some fictitious number that’s close for both teams and either high enough to say they did great or lower to say we want more of X.

Still encourages the skill you wanted to see and as you say, it’s too much to actually count.

[Raggs]

I like the idea of scoring all sorts, but just don't have the ability to set that up and keep it up!

We often don’t actually count the scores
Just come up with some fictitious number that’s close for both teams and either high enough to say they did great or lower to say we want more of X.

Still encourages the skill you wanted to see and as you say, it’s too much to actually count.

Yep, was thinking of doing the same thing. Problem is I don't want the kids to stop bothering after the first game or so.

[Sandstorm]

I like the idea of scoring all sorts, but just don't have the ability to set that up and keep it up!

We often don’t actually count the scores
Just come up with some fictitious number that’s close for both teams and either high enough to say they did great or lower to say we want more of X.

Still encourages the skill you wanted to see and as you say, it’s too much to actually count.

Yep, was thinking of doing the same thing. Problem is I don't want the kids to stop bothering after the first game or so.

Only give points for passing off the left hand.

[Raggs]

Only give points for passing off the left hand.

Wouldn't be able to do that one, my boy's left handed.

[Sandstorm]

Only give points for passing off the left hand.

Wouldn't be able to do that one, my boy's left handed.

If he’s Irish, teach him to kick-pass.

[Raggs]

Only give points for passing off the left hand.

Wouldn't be able to do that one, my boy's left handed.

If he’s Irish, teach him to kick-pass.

He's not Irish, and he's right footed.

[Sandstorm]

Wouldn't be able to do that one, my boy's left handed.

If he’s Irish, teach him to kick-pass.

He's not Irish, and he's right footed.

Thank goodness

[clydecloggie]

If he’s Irish, teach him to kick-pass.

He's not Irish, and he's right footed.

Thank goodness

Cursed be the left-footed! See if they float, burn them regardless.

And on topic, over here competitive rugby starts at U13, with the exception of some tournaments late in the season at U12. All age grades below that are only scored if the ref can be bothered to keep track.

[Raggs]

He's not Irish, and he's right footed.

Thank goodness

Cursed be the left-footed! See if they float, burn them regardless.

And on topic, over here competitive rugby starts at U13, with the exception of some tournaments late in the season at U12. All age grades below that are only scored if the ref can be bothered to keep track.

Same for the RFU. The u12s stuff is just to try and get them in a suitable level league for the u13s bit.

[Brazil]

I've no idea how you stop the kids from wanting to win. I've tried and tried at our League club (U9s and U7s) and they're so passionate every match (in reality 20 mins of one out passes, knock ons and kids running forty yards backwards off the pitch) ends in desperate pleas about the score, the ref getting things wrong and, inevitably, tears at the sheer injustice of it all. Still, it'll prepare them for a life of supporting England I suppose.

[clydecloggie]

I've no idea how you stop the kids from wanting to win. I've tried and tried at our League club (U9s and U7s) and they're so passionate every match (in reality 20 mins of one out passes, knock ons and kids running forty yards backwards off the pitch) ends in desperate pleas about the score, the ref getting things wrong and, inevitably, tears at the sheer injustice of it all. Still, it'll prepare them for a life of supporting England I suppose.

It varies. There are kids who are just natural competitors and really live and die by the result but I have plenty players (in all age groups up to U18) who play for the sheer love of it and can be happy with a well-played match regardless of the result.

We have a very competitive U18 1st XV and a very uncompetitive 2nd XV - but the 1st can win and be disappointed and cross with themselves while the 2nds get hammered and come off the pitch all smiles and pride for a well-fought game.

I must admit I really like having those opposites within the same club and age grade squad, even if it's an absolute pain trying to plan training sessions that satisfy both camps.

[Raggs]

I've no idea how you stop the kids from wanting to win. I've tried and tried at our League club (U9s and U7s) and they're so passionate every match (in reality 20 mins of one out passes, knock ons and kids running forty yards backwards off the pitch) ends in desperate pleas about the score, the ref getting things wrong and, inevitably, tears at the sheer injustice of it all. Still, it'll prepare them for a life of supporting England I suppose.

You can't stop them from wanting to win. But make it clear that for the adults winning isn't important, and the only easy way to show that is to simply not keep score. Praise for what they've done well, no matter how small really. They don't play to win, they play because it's fun, winning is just a bonus.

[Raggs]

So just finished our third festival in the weeks. Amazing how well the kids have come along from the first one. Getting some game time against other teams has really helped. So satisfying to see them supporting each other and working hard. Been some sore bodies after each one, but I reckon there'll be at least a couple that'll be really grateful for the bank holiday tomorrow!

Very proud coach today! And a proud dad too!

[laurent]

Big Rugby festival this week end in Marcoussis.

https://flic.kr/s/aHBqjAFyvs

and

https://flic.kr/s/aHBqjAFuWn

our U8 to U14 had a blast in the Sun.

Last week the U14 (girls only) were at a tournament in Oléron and impressed coaches from Toulouse amongst others (they could not really believe how down the leagues we are )

[Niegs]

Maybe more related to 'coaching' than 'kids' here, but I HOPE none of y'all are doing bleep tests with kids! I found myself smiling wide at this because I did my Level 2 at the AIS back in 2008 and am pretty sure our S&C section was led by one of the Brumbies guys. I distinctly remember him saying Smith was the 'worst' at bleep tests, admitting that he probably dropped out at the required minimum because he didn't feel like going on, not necessarily because he couldn't.

I always took that to heart as I was TERRIBLE at the test, but had no problem playing full rugby matches, but also could do a job in basketball which required more cardio.

[Raggs]

Maybe more related to 'coaching' than 'kids' here, but I HOPE none of y'all are doing bleep tests with kids! I found myself smiling wide at this because I did my Level 2 at the AIS back in 2008 and am pretty sure our S&C section was led by one of the Brumbies guys. I distinctly remember him saying Smith was the 'worst' at bleep tests, admitting that he probably dropped out at the required minimum because he didn't feel like going on, not necessarily because he couldn't.

I always took that to heart as I was TERRIBLE at the test, but had no problem playing full rugby matches, but also could do a job in basketball which required more cardio.

Recently read a tweet referring to a report for international football and talent ID etc. Turns out, talent ID in the biggest sport in the world, which doesn't always rely on size, is still massively biased towards the relative age effect. If they can't identify talent what chance has rugby got!

Bleep tests are just soul destroying!

[Niegs]

Maybe more related to 'coaching' than 'kids' here, but I HOPE none of y'all are doing bleep tests with kids! I found myself smiling wide at this because I did my Level 2 at the AIS back in 2008 and am pretty sure our S&C section was led by one of the Brumbies guys. I distinctly remember him saying Smith was the 'worst' at bleep tests, admitting that he probably dropped out at the required minimum because he didn't feel like going on, not necessarily because he couldn't.

I always took that to heart as I was TERRIBLE at the test, but had no problem playing full rugby matches, but also could do a job in basketball which required more cardio.

Recently read a tweet referring to a report for international football and talent ID etc. Turns out, talent ID in the biggest sport in the world, which doesn't always rely on size, is still massively biased towards the relative age effect. If they can't identify talent what chance has rugby got!

Bleep tests are just soul destroying!

Yeah, I did a wee report on the rise of 'academies' for my sport management course. At best, there's a lot of self-serving gaming/distortion of how well they're doing. As someone properly studying this said (Mark O'Sullivan, an Irishman in Sweden), no one's counting the rejects, cast-offs, injured out. They'll celebrate the lad who made it to the first team, who was often so gifted and motivated he'd have 'made it' anyway or in any system. But it's left to the odd journo who covers the mental health breakdown of a 'likely lad' who's now a binman because he was sold a dream when young and didn't 'make it'. As he says... and read a paper from Lancaster when he was at Leeds saying same... the best we can do is keep as many kids as possible, for as long as possible (their choice based on ...), in the best possible learning environment that suits their wants/needs. And not over-doing it / restricting their ability to play other sports, which is rife here with all-year hockey, soccer, baseball, basketball... even some rugby people do it with off-season (even winter indoor) 7s.

[laurent]

We have an academy of sort.

At any rate we can't reject any kids as most clubs struggle to have full teams in the area.

[Punter15]

Fascinating comments in this. I lean strongly on 'keep it informal' until mid-teens. Kids will compete for every moment and keep the scores in their heads / talk about it in-game. Tracking results and awarding the winners is, at best, a hollow victory and more likely to see coaches exclude kids who spoil their chances of winning. ... I'm reminded of the U13s I had one year. Most of them didn't make the 1st XV in their final two years and the little chubby one who struggled to keep up ended up becoming the starting 9. He'd have been the sort of kid benched in a U13 7s team by coaches focused on winning.

I am convinced that the current generation of soft cock, entitled, self absorbed, work shy morons that have been unleashed into the work force who expect to only hear praise and have their roles designed to suit them and not the people who pay them are a direct result of participation medals.

[Raggs]

Fascinating comments in this. I lean strongly on 'keep it informal' until mid-teens. Kids will compete for every moment and keep the scores in their heads / talk about it in-game. Tracking results and awarding the winners is, at best, a hollow victory and more likely to see coaches exclude kids who spoil their chances of winning. ... I'm reminded of the U13s I had one year. Most of them didn't make the 1st XV in their final two years and the little chubby one who struggled to keep up ended up becoming the starting 9. He'd have been the sort of kid benched in a U13 7s team by coaches focused on winning.

I am convinced that the current generation of soft cock, entitled, self absorbed, work shy morons that have been unleashed into the work force who expect to only hear praise and have their roles designed to suit them and not the people who pay them are a direct result of participation medals.

From quite a lot of what I see and read, this current generation of youngsters aren't workshy at all, they're just going along with a rather solid saying of "work your wage", and aren't willing to put up with unpaid overtime and other such bullshit concepts.

And as for the kids rugby, one of my better players at u12s, was quite literally picking daisys during matches back in u7s, still made sure he got his fair share of matches, and he still enjoyed training. If we'd have been "serious" about winning games at u8s (I mean how fucking ridiculous does that sound), he'd have almost certainly left the sport. Another kid just started to blossom towards the end of this season, one who was worried about contact, small, often away with the fairies too, towards the end of this season he's suddenly come into his own and despite his size, he's absolutely flattening people with his tackles. Another that I have no doubt would have left if we'd have been playing to win, because what could be more important than being the coach who's the winner in a contest between 7 year olds, where the one fast kid literally breaks the game.

Even at u12s the size and physical ability range can make the games a bit ridiculous, with a single player or two turning the whole game on it's head. In another season or two that'll get further exaggerated with puberty, and obviously no good rugby player could ever hit puberty late, so it's definitely not worth keeping as many people playing with their mates, win or lose....

[Niegs]

I coached a kid even older, 15 or thereabouts, who seemed only in it because his mates were and the coach wanted bodies. A year behind him was a big, gangly goofy kid who was pretty much useless. I visited two years later and both were stand-outs as the school won a medal at provincial second-tier finals. The former ended up being a stud for one of the best unis in Canada and it was criminal he never got a look for the national team (also seems like he didn't push for it, just happy to play club rugby and eventually went into a nice business job as the private school kids tend to :) ).

The teacher-coaches I worked with there are NOT the old school task-masters, either. Just have high expectations of quality, stick to the basics when it comes to play, and get all the kids on the same page. In fact, I've seen a few good programs where the kids all pulling together, holding each other quietly accountable, was the real reason they were successful.

Local school to mine won second-tier provincials in the late 90s, with a few lads admitting to me years later their coach was stuck in a different era. They just loved to toss the ball around and synched well ... I played U19 club with them and it was similar there. Our coach was good, but he often couldn't make practice due to work. Our captain ran training in those instances and I don't remember any goofing off.

[laurent]

Well I am chuffed.
Coaching the U10 this year. (Till Xmas holidays)
The weather was terrible.

Our little terrors won all their games (U10) the U12 did ok (a lot of newbies from the high school). U8 I didn't get scores (not sure they keep scores).

Tomorrow is the first games ever for our U18 Girls (playing in Tours) they will have their first Home game in 3 weeks.

https://flic.kr/s/aHBqjB3MfU
One of the u12.

Small-(c)-IMR30370.JPG (298.01 KiB) Viewed 1070 times

[Slick]

Got my debut gig with the U8’s tomorrow after hanging about and looking sad for a few weeks

[Tichtheid]

I love that photo Laurent, the expression on her face, the ball being so huge, the player behind trying to make the tackle, it's all terrific.

@ Slick Good luck with he coaching