The Scottish Politics Thread
Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:46 am
Thought I'd kick this one off again.
Conservatives planning to revolutionise devolution
Kieran Andrews, Scottish Political Editor
Wednesday July 01 2020, 12.01am, The Times
Downing Street aims to engage more with devolution rather than continue a perceived culture of “devolve and forget”
British ministers are considering revolutionising Whitehall’s approach to devolution by creating new UK-wide economic and security bodies as part of an effort to strengthen the Union.
A new cabinet group has been set up to promote Boris Johnson’s agenda and devise policies that will enhance the UK government’s standing in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.
Crucial to this will be establishing UK-wide frameworks and making clear what responsibilities are reserved to Westminster. It is understood that Tory ministers are preparing to be more “robust” with their SNP counterparts in taking responsibility for macroeconomic and security issues.
Ideas will be brought forward by the Union Policy Implementation committee, which will be chaired by Michael Gove, the Cabinet Office minister, and includes Rishi Sunak, the chancellor, in its membership.
The group, which also includes the secretaries of state for Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales, has held its first informal meeting. Its mission is defined as being “to support the delivery of the government’s priorities in relation to the Union of the United Kingdom”.
The main aims are to change the culture of “devolve and forget” within Whitehall and to develop policies that will work across the whole of the UK.
Senior figures in the UK government believe it represents a shift from Theresa May’s administration and will see Downing Street be far more willing to engage with devolution, including pushing for change where the system is seen as “dysfunctional” and learning lessons from where it works well.
The committee is being supported by No 10’s “Union unit” and a new resource within the Cabinet Office, which will involve more than 20 officials working on policies.
The committee is expected to discuss how the new UK Shared Prosperity Fund, which replaces funding controlled by the EU, will be used to “bind” the UK nations. This will involve branding to mark the UK government’s contribution at investment sites in the same way that investment from the EU is promoted.
The group will consider how the UK government can invest more on infrastructure projects in each of the devolved nations, including in transport.
The prime minister has announced plans to invest in “shovel-ready” upgrades including dualling the A1 in the northeast of England up to Scotland.
Sources said that the UK government will consider contributing to improving the same road north of the border and funding the upgrade of the A75, which links Stranraer and its ferry ports at Cairnryan with the A74 at Gretna.
This would pave the way for ministers to explore Mr Johnson’s proposed bridge between Scotland and Northern Ireland.
The prime minister said that now was the time “to strengthen that incredible partnership” of the four nations. “I believe the Union has more than shown its worth and a prosperous and united kingdom must be a connected kingdom,” he said.
Nicola Sturgeon said she was “extremely underwhelmed” by the plan. The SNP had called for £80 billion of investment and additional borrowing and spending powers for Scotland.
She said Mr Johnson’s announcement was “simply shuffling around money that was already in the system” and was not enough considering “the scale of the challenge that we face”.
UK officials were unable to say whether any extra money would come to Holyrood after the announcements.
Call for investment fund
A new independent Scottish investment fund should be set up to manage government assets, SNP ministers have been told.
Andrew Wilson, the former RBS economist and chairman of Nicola Sturgeon’s Sustainable Growth Commission, and Alan McFarlane, the founder of Dundas Global Investors, called for economic structures to be simplified.
In a paper for the Reform Scotland think tank titled Investing for Recovery, they said that the Treasury should work with Holyrood to sanction tens of billions of pounds of debt-funded capital.
Mr McFarlane said that a “significant response” would be needed to aid the recovery from the economic crash caused by Covid-19.
Kate Forbes, the finance secretary, said that her request for more financial powers, which would be required under Mr McFarlane and Mr Wilson’s plans, had been “kicked into the long grass” by the Treasury.
First thing they need to sort is international trade, it's an absolute mess at the moment and severely impacting Scottish business.Crucial to this will be establishing UK-wide frameworks and making clear what responsibilities are reserved to Westminster. It is understood that Tory ministers are preparing to be more “robust” with their SNP counterparts in taking responsibility for macroeconomic and security issues.
Given recent experience, I think it's an 'I'll believe it when I see it' reaction from me. Given the past actions of Tory governments, This reeks of something where the rich boys try to tell the plebs what to do and don't accept any idea that comes from the devolved administrations.Northern Lights wrote: ↑Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:30 am So the first main topical thing to get this thread started:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/scot ... -0sr9f36gb
Conservatives planning to revolutionise devolution
Kieran Andrews, Scottish Political Editor
Wednesday July 01 2020, 12.01am, The Times
Downing Street aims to engage more with devolution rather than continue a perceived culture of “devolve and forget”
British ministers are considering revolutionising Whitehall’s approach to devolution by creating new UK-wide economic and security bodies as part of an effort to strengthen the Union.
A new cabinet group has been set up to promote Boris Johnson’s agenda and devise policies that will enhance the UK government’s standing in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.
Crucial to this will be establishing UK-wide frameworks and making clear what responsibilities are reserved to Westminster. It is understood that Tory ministers are preparing to be more “robust” with their SNP counterparts in taking responsibility for macroeconomic and security issues.
Ideas will be brought forward by the Union Policy Implementation committee, which will be chaired by Michael Gove, the Cabinet Office minister, and includes Rishi Sunak, the chancellor, in its membership.
The group, which also includes the secretaries of state for Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales, has held its first informal meeting. Its mission is defined as being “to support the delivery of the government’s priorities in relation to the Union of the United Kingdom”.
The main aims are to change the culture of “devolve and forget” within Whitehall and to develop policies that will work across the whole of the UK.
Senior figures in the UK government believe it represents a shift from Theresa May’s administration and will see Downing Street be far more willing to engage with devolution, including pushing for change where the system is seen as “dysfunctional” and learning lessons from where it works well.
The committee is being supported by No 10’s “Union unit” and a new resource within the Cabinet Office, which will involve more than 20 officials working on policies.
The committee is expected to discuss how the new UK Shared Prosperity Fund, which replaces funding controlled by the EU, will be used to “bind” the UK nations. This will involve branding to mark the UK government’s contribution at investment sites in the same way that investment from the EU is promoted.
The group will consider how the UK government can invest more on infrastructure projects in each of the devolved nations, including in transport.
The prime minister has announced plans to invest in “shovel-ready” upgrades including dualling the A1 in the northeast of England up to Scotland.
Sources said that the UK government will consider contributing to improving the same road north of the border and funding the upgrade of the A75, which links Stranraer and its ferry ports at Cairnryan with the A74 at Gretna.
This would pave the way for ministers to explore Mr Johnson’s proposed bridge between Scotland and Northern Ireland.
The prime minister said that now was the time “to strengthen that incredible partnership” of the four nations. “I believe the Union has more than shown its worth and a prosperous and united kingdom must be a connected kingdom,” he said.
Nicola Sturgeon said she was “extremely underwhelmed” by the plan. The SNP had called for £80 billion of investment and additional borrowing and spending powers for Scotland.
She said Mr Johnson’s announcement was “simply shuffling around money that was already in the system” and was not enough considering “the scale of the challenge that we face”.
UK officials were unable to say whether any extra money would come to Holyrood after the announcements.
Call for investment fund
A new independent Scottish investment fund should be set up to manage government assets, SNP ministers have been told.
Andrew Wilson, the former RBS economist and chairman of Nicola Sturgeon’s Sustainable Growth Commission, and Alan McFarlane, the founder of Dundas Global Investors, called for economic structures to be simplified.
In a paper for the Reform Scotland think tank titled Investing for Recovery, they said that the Treasury should work with Holyrood to sanction tens of billions of pounds of debt-funded capital.
Mr McFarlane said that a “significant response” would be needed to aid the recovery from the economic crash caused by Covid-19.
Kate Forbes, the finance secretary, said that her request for more financial powers, which would be required under Mr McFarlane and Mr Wilson’s plans, had been “kicked into the long grass” by the Treasury.
I share your cynicism... In saying that every conversation I have had with Ministers or senior civil servants in HMG they say that Boris and this government are serious about "equalising" things across the UK. Seen none of it yet in my little corner but that's more to do with Covid.Given recent experience, I think it's an 'I'll believe it when I see it' reaction from me. Given the past actions of Tory governments, This reeks of something where the rich boys try to tell the plebs what to do and don't accept any idea that comes from the devolved administrations.
Although the idea of this proposed bridge has the seduction of a much needed boost to the SW of Scotland with a grand feat of engineering, Ireland and N.Ireland are pitifully-sized markets and I frankly see no economic rationale for it overall. It would most certainly benefit Stranraer and help create a land bridge through which freight could divert from Carlisle and elsewhere but I just don't see it making any long term sense.Northern Lights wrote: ↑Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:30 am So the first main topical thing to get this thread started:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/scot ... -0sr9f36gb
Conservatives planning to revolutionise devolution
Kieran Andrews, Scottish Political Editor
Wednesday July 01 2020, 12.01am, The Times
Downing Street aims to engage more with devolution rather than continue a perceived culture of “devolve and forget”
British ministers are considering revolutionising Whitehall’s approach to devolution by creating new UK-wide economic and security bodies as part of an effort to strengthen the Union.
A new cabinet group has been set up to promote Boris Johnson’s agenda and devise policies that will enhance the UK government’s standing in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.
Crucial to this will be establishing UK-wide frameworks and making clear what responsibilities are reserved to Westminster. It is understood that Tory ministers are preparing to be more “robust” with their SNP counterparts in taking responsibility for macroeconomic and security issues.
Ideas will be brought forward by the Union Policy Implementation committee, which will be chaired by Michael Gove, the Cabinet Office minister, and includes Rishi Sunak, the chancellor, in its membership.
The group, which also includes the secretaries of state for Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales, has held its first informal meeting. Its mission is defined as being “to support the delivery of the government’s priorities in relation to the Union of the United Kingdom”.
The main aims are to change the culture of “devolve and forget” within Whitehall and to develop policies that will work across the whole of the UK.
Senior figures in the UK government believe it represents a shift from Theresa May’s administration and will see Downing Street be far more willing to engage with devolution, including pushing for change where the system is seen as “dysfunctional” and learning lessons from where it works well.
The committee is being supported by No 10’s “Union unit” and a new resource within the Cabinet Office, which will involve more than 20 officials working on policies.
The committee is expected to discuss how the new UK Shared Prosperity Fund, which replaces funding controlled by the EU, will be used to “bind” the UK nations. This will involve branding to mark the UK government’s contribution at investment sites in the same way that investment from the EU is promoted.
The group will consider how the UK government can invest more on infrastructure projects in each of the devolved nations, including in transport.
The prime minister has announced plans to invest in “shovel-ready” upgrades including dualling the A1 in the northeast of England up to Scotland.
Sources said that the UK government will consider contributing to improving the same road north of the border and funding the upgrade of the A75, which links Stranraer and its ferry ports at Cairnryan with the A74 at Gretna.
This would pave the way for ministers to explore Mr Johnson’s proposed bridge between Scotland and Northern Ireland.
The prime minister said that now was the time “to strengthen that incredible partnership” of the four nations. “I believe the Union has more than shown its worth and a prosperous and united kingdom must be a connected kingdom,” he said.
Nicola Sturgeon said she was “extremely underwhelmed” by the plan. The SNP had called for £80 billion of investment and additional borrowing and spending powers for Scotland.
She said Mr Johnson’s announcement was “simply shuffling around money that was already in the system” and was not enough considering “the scale of the challenge that we face”.
UK officials were unable to say whether any extra money would come to Holyrood after the announcements.
Call for investment fund
A new independent Scottish investment fund should be set up to manage government assets, SNP ministers have been told.
Andrew Wilson, the former RBS economist and chairman of Nicola Sturgeon’s Sustainable Growth Commission, and Alan McFarlane, the founder of Dundas Global Investors, called for economic structures to be simplified.
In a paper for the Reform Scotland think tank titled Investing for Recovery, they said that the Treasury should work with Holyrood to sanction tens of billions of pounds of debt-funded capital.
Mr McFarlane said that a “significant response” would be needed to aid the recovery from the economic crash caused by Covid-19.
Kate Forbes, the finance secretary, said that her request for more financial powers, which would be required under Mr McFarlane and Mr Wilson’s plans, had been “kicked into the long grass” by the Treasury.
Where are people getting face masks from? Any recommendations from the medics on here what type is best. Or should I just use a Buff?
The surgical masks that we wear for most jobs protect the patient rather than us, there is maybe some potential protection for us, the other masks we wear (all the 3M, solway masks etc) that have to be fitted protect us when performing Aerosol Generating Procedures.S/Lt_Phillips wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:36 pmWhere are people getting face masks from? Any recommendations from the medics on here what type is best. Or should I just use a Buff?
(Appreciate this is probably on the wrong thread.)
Had a wee chuckle at that. 2m unless you've got a wee pub then 1m is OK
Tried to post this a minute ago.S/Lt_Phillips wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:36 pmWhere are people getting face masks from? Any recommendations from the medics on here what type is best. Or should I just use a Buff?
(Appreciate this is probably on the wrong thread.)
Jock42 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:42 pmThe surgical masks that we wear for most jobs protect the patient rather than us, there is maybe some potential protection for us, the other masks we wear (all the 3M, solway masks etc) that have to be fitted protect us when performing Aerosol Generating Procedures.S/Lt_Phillips wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:36 pmWhere are people getting face masks from? Any recommendations from the medics on here what type is best. Or should I just use a Buff?
(Appreciate this is probably on the wrong thread.)
I've not really paid attention to the new masks that have sprung up, the professional style "homemade" stuff, but I assume that's more to protect other people from you if you have it like the surgical masks.
Helpful, thanks. I'll go with the Buff solution for now, but might see about trying the pharmacy.Biffer wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:51 pmJock42 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:42 pmThe surgical masks that we wear for most jobs protect the patient rather than us, there is maybe some potential protection for us, the other masks we wear (all the 3M, solway masks etc) that have to be fitted protect us when performing Aerosol Generating Procedures.S/Lt_Phillips wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:36 pm
Where are people getting face masks from? Any recommendations from the medics on here what type is best. Or should I just use a Buff?
(Appreciate this is probably on the wrong thread.)
I've not really paid attention to the new masks that have sprung up, the professional style "homemade" stuff, but I assume that's more to protect other people from you if you have it like the surgical masks.
I think the policy is about protecting other people rather than yourself, so any face covering should do. I’ve got some snoods that I’ll use casually if I pop in somewhere, and I got a small pack of more medical ones for when I need to wear one for longer (BS EN14683:2019 if that means anything to you - it doesn’t for me)
It's about risk profile. Multiple factors at play, including how likely you are to meet someone carrying the infection, how likely you are to be infected when wearing a mask, and when not, and at what distance from them, number of people within a certain area, whether you're likely to be face to face with someone, etc.etc. it's the overall risk of all of these combined that you've got to keep low enough to keep the virus down. The first of these has decreased substantially so some of the other factors can be relaxed while maintaining the same overall level of risk. Then throw in the risk to the economy and how you get more people in to stores.Northern Lights wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:39 pm Now mandatory to wear a mask in a shop (that we've been using for months now without one and the infections have collpased) but it is now ok to go to a pub without one and be tighter packed.
Pile of shite if you ask me, not that any of you are but it just seems a shambles.
They are still keeping 2m in the stores though arent they? Unless you have a wee shop from what i can gather.Biffer wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:08 pm
It's about risk profile. Multiple factors at play, including how likely you are to meet someone carrying the infection, how likely you are to be infected when wearing a mask, and when not, and at what distance from them, number of people within a certain area, whether you're likely to be face to face with someone, etc.etc. it's the overall risk of all of these combined that you've got to keep low enough to keep the virus down. The first of these has decreased substantially so some of the other factors can be relaxed while maintaining the same overall level of risk. Then throw in the risk to the economy and how you get more people in to stores.
They probably did but weren't unwell enough to get a test. Now its easier to get testedNorthern Lights wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:22 pmThey are still keeping 2m in the stores though arent they? Unless you have a wee shop from what i can gather.Biffer wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:08 pm
It's about risk profile. Multiple factors at play, including how likely you are to meet someone carrying the infection, how likely you are to be infected when wearing a mask, and when not, and at what distance from them, number of people within a certain area, whether you're likely to be face to face with someone, etc.etc. it's the overall risk of all of these combined that you've got to keep low enough to keep the virus down. The first of these has decreased substantially so some of the other factors can be relaxed while maintaining the same overall level of risk. Then throw in the risk to the economy and how you get more people in to stores.
Apparently the mini outbreak on the border is linked to a couple of factories, pretty surprised they didnt already have it through them before now as they've been open throughout
Not all the shops have been open though. As restrictions are lifted, more shops open and more people will be interacting, wearing masks to limit the chance of infection makes sense.Northern Lights wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:39 pm Now mandatory to wear a mask in a shop (that we've been using for months now without one and the infections have collpased) but it is now ok to go to a pub without one and be tighter packed.
Pile of shite if you ask me, not that any of you are but it just seems a shambles.
We are heading down south to my mums for a couple of weeks tonight. Won't be seeing anyone else. Slightly worried about getting back up later but I presume they would give a couple of days notice of any travel bans etc.I want to come to Scotland over the summer, and it’s entirely possible I won’t be able to because Boris Johnson is a dick.
Nicola Sturgeon refers to a report by a group of industry experts, commissioned by the Scottish government, looking at ways to limit unemployment caused by the economic impact of Covid-19.
The first minister says Sandy Begbie, the chief transformation officer at Tesco Bank, has agreed to lead the work on developing and implementing one of the report's key proposals - a job guarantee for young people.
"Sandy has valuable experience in this area," says the first minister.
I do think Nicola needs to address this.To Americans wondering what's going on, here's my naive take: Scotland is now doing well in its response to COVID-19 which seems to anger anti-Scottish, pro-UK people ("unionists" who are now turning their attacks on me bc I serve on scientific advisory group to Scottish govt
Eh? You think she is right to say non independance supporting folk are anti Scottish and are angry that Scotland is doing well? I'm sure you don't so maybe I've read that wrong.dpedin wrote: ↑Mon Jul 06, 2020 9:13 am Whilst she is probably right in what she says she shouldn't say it publicly but she is only an advisor and not a member or official of the Gov so I presume Wee Nic hasn't any authority over her.
Getting a bit pissed off about folk moaning on about masks - its no feckin problem just do it. As we come out of lock down it makes sense to make masks mandatory as the number of interactions begin to increase. Up to now the number of close interactions has been low and where it was a risk then masks were required i.e. buses, hospitals, care homes, etc. The number of cases in the community is now very low in Scotland and as the community opens up then it makes a lot of sense to require folk to wear masks to avoid the opening up and closer contact in beer gardens etc leading to an increase in community transmission. We have also reached the low level of community infection where local PH teams can actually have an effective Track and Protect system in place to identify and manage local outbreaks. Opening up later than England reflects we were later into community transmission and are keen to get the numbers down low enough to manage. We might not agree with what Sridhar said but she knows what she is talking about and Scotland is in a far better position than England right now.
I think she has phrased very badly the idea that there are people in the more extreme category of unionist (maybe loyalist would be a better word for them) who are going to howl at anything the Scottish government does whether it’s good bad or indifferent.Slick wrote: ↑Mon Jul 06, 2020 9:25 amEh? You think she is right to say non independance supporting folk are anti Scottish and are angry that Scotland is doing well? I'm sure you don't so maybe I've read that wrong.dpedin wrote: ↑Mon Jul 06, 2020 9:13 am Whilst she is probably right in what she says she shouldn't say it publicly but she is only an advisor and not a member or official of the Gov so I presume Wee Nic hasn't any authority over her.
Getting a bit pissed off about folk moaning on about masks - its no feckin problem just do it. As we come out of lock down it makes sense to make masks mandatory as the number of interactions begin to increase. Up to now the number of close interactions has been low and where it was a risk then masks were required i.e. buses, hospitals, care homes, etc. The number of cases in the community is now very low in Scotland and as the community opens up then it makes a lot of sense to require folk to wear masks to avoid the opening up and closer contact in beer gardens etc leading to an increase in community transmission. We have also reached the low level of community infection where local PH teams can actually have an effective Track and Protect system in place to identify and manage local outbreaks. Opening up later than England reflects we were later into community transmission and are keen to get the numbers down low enough to manage. We might not agree with what Sridhar said but she knows what she is talking about and Scotland is in a far better position than England right now.
Agree on the masks thing, its not really a big deal to stick one on. I think one factor is embarrassment to be honest, which is silly but a real thing. I'm down in England at the moment and went for a haircut yesterday and was the only person (apart from the barbers) wearing one, seems crazy.
dpedin wrote: ↑Mon Jul 06, 2020 10:03 am Its an interesting area about how much control the Gov have over these members of advisory groups. The other argument is that any contractual or 'terms of reference' put in place are in effect ways of the Gov trying to silence experts who have alternative views to the Gov. Interesting that since Van Tam spoke out about the adherence to rules and regulations he disappeared from the now defunct daily briefings by the UK Gov. It is a difficult line for everyone concerned, my view is let these experts speak out, thats why they are there ... as long as they don't do a Starkey!
The strangest thing to me is that these intelligent people get so rattled by fucking Twitter that they say shit like that.Biffer wrote: ↑Mon Jul 06, 2020 10:13 amdpedin wrote: ↑Mon Jul 06, 2020 10:03 am Its an interesting area about how much control the Gov have over these members of advisory groups. The other argument is that any contractual or 'terms of reference' put in place are in effect ways of the Gov trying to silence experts who have alternative views to the Gov. Interesting that since Van Tam spoke out about the adherence to rules and regulations he disappeared from the now defunct daily briefings by the UK Gov. It is a difficult line for everyone concerned, my view is let these experts speak out, thats why they are there ... as long as they don't do a Starkey!
Yeah, it’s a fine line. You have to both allow them to express their views freely in order to still have independence, but also prevent them from compromising the independence or competence of the advisory panel they sit on and the process as a whole.
Have you dealt much with academics? They can have a very odd world view.Slick wrote: ↑Mon Jul 06, 2020 10:19 amThe strangest thing to me is that these intelligent people get so rattled by fucking Twitter that they say shit like that.Biffer wrote: ↑Mon Jul 06, 2020 10:13 amdpedin wrote: ↑Mon Jul 06, 2020 10:03 am Its an interesting area about how much control the Gov have over these members of advisory groups. The other argument is that any contractual or 'terms of reference' put in place are in effect ways of the Gov trying to silence experts who have alternative views to the Gov. Interesting that since Van Tam spoke out about the adherence to rules and regulations he disappeared from the now defunct daily briefings by the UK Gov. It is a difficult line for everyone concerned, my view is let these experts speak out, thats why they are there ... as long as they don't do a Starkey!
Yeah, it’s a fine line. You have to both allow them to express their views freely in order to still have independence, but also prevent them from compromising the independence or competence of the advisory panel they sit on and the process as a whole.
Still think it was a very poor comment and needs a response.
What a complete fuckwitSlick wrote: ↑Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:34 am Pretty incendiary comments from Devi Sridhar
I do think Nicola needs to address this.To Americans wondering what's going on, here's my naive take: Scotland is now doing well in its response to COVID-19 which seems to anger anti-Scottish, pro-UK people ("unionists" who are now turning their attacks on me bc I serve on scientific advisory group to Scottish govt