NPR

Posted: **Thu Aug 13, 2020 12:36 pm**

Does the Tory triple lock remove the effect of increasing the top grades of the top schools by 4.7% or not. This increase of 4.7% presumably is what is left after downgrading state school teacher results.

I think all credibility is blown.

We have received heartbreaking feedback from school leaders about grades being pulled down in a way that they feel to be utterly unfair and unfathomable. They are extremely concerned about the detrimental impact on their students."

For the top A* and A grades, independent schools in England saw the greatest improvement on last year - up 4.7 percentage points.

This compares to a 1.7, 2 and 0.3 percentage points improvement for top grades for England's academies, comprehensives and colleges respectively.

The Sixth Form Colleges Association has called the system for calculating A-level grades, "flawed and unreliable" after almost all colleges said grades were lower or much lower than predicted.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-53759832

Posted: **Thu Aug 13, 2020 1:09 pm**

Purely anecdotal, but there does seem to be something amiss somewhere.

Sister in law was round earlier who's the head of department at a sixth form college. Her students had been pretty brutally downgraded from the predictions submitted.

I forget the exact metric, but in the last five years the results hadn't been below 63%. This year they were 59% after being downgraded (down from 75% last year). May have just been a shit year group, but seems a bit steep.

Posted: **Thu Aug 13, 2020 1:38 pm**

Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Thu Aug 13, 2020 1:09 pm Purely anecdotal, but there does seem to be something amiss somewhere.

Sister in law was round earlier who's the head of department at a sixth form college. Her students had been pretty brutally downgraded from the predictions submitted.

I forget the exact metric, but in the last five years the results hadn't been below 63%. This year they were 59% after being downgraded (down from 75% last year). May have just been a shit year group, but seems a bit steep.

She should complain to the Guardian. Whats your assessment of the school's postcode? Is it a new type academy?

Posted: **Thu Aug 13, 2020 2:19 pm**

One of the key criteria the Exam board utilised when assessing the validity of teachers estimates was the number of pupils in that particular teaching group with lower numbers (presumably given teachers should then know the pupils better) given a positive score. Who could have foreseen that would disproportionately favour private schools...

Posted: **Thu Aug 13, 2020 2:21 pm**

I bet all the private schools kids did OK

Posted: **Thu Aug 13, 2020 2:46 pm**

G man @gdog2010_john
The amount of Tory MPs that are now deleting tweets criticising the Scottish governments handling of last weeks higher results is something to behold.

Posted: **Thu Aug 13, 2020 2:51 pm**

Pols really are the hermit crabs of the foodchain. Carrying their rock around with them.

Posted: **Thu Aug 13, 2020 2:51 pm**

I thought the decision by the Scottish government was shocking and devalued the results achieved that was until Gav unveiled an even less thought out system to be released a couple of hours before results were released.

Posted: **Thu Aug 13, 2020 2:52 pm**

Insane_Homer wrote: ↑Thu Aug 13, 2020 2:46 pm

G man @gdog2010_john
The amount of Tory MPs that are now deleting tweets criticising the Scottish governments handling of last weeks higher results is something to behold.

The stupid idiots ought to "out" whoever provided their standard script.

Every tweet is the same! Who did they employ, Bimbobot?
Actually they ought to resign in embarrassment at their pathetic laziness being exposed.

Posted: **Thu Aug 13, 2020 2:56 pm**

Posted: **Thu Aug 13, 2020 3:04 pm**

@SteveM0365

All over the country Brexiters will be consoling their distraught kids by stating that "it wasn't the Conservatives fault. They're doing their best".

Posted: **Thu Aug 13, 2020 3:19 pm**

Insane_Homer wrote: ↑Thu Aug 13, 2020 2:21 pm I bet all the private schools kids did OK

I jolly well hope so you deserve a return on that investment.

Posted: **Thu Aug 13, 2020 3:20 pm**

Insane_Homer wrote: ↑Thu Aug 13, 2020 2:56 pm

When The Mail and The Telegraph are both having a go about it you know something is amiss or badly wrong!
Failed fireplace salesman Gavin Williamson was appalling on the morning round of interviews earlier. Must be on borrowed time already!

Posted: **Thu Aug 13, 2020 3:20 pm**

sefton wrote: ↑Thu Aug 13, 2020 2:51 pm I thought the decision by the Scottish government was shocking and devalued the results achieved that was until Gav unveiled an even less thought out system to be released a couple of hours before results were released.

Williamson should be publicly hanged for deciding at the last minute that mocks could count.

Exam boards have been consulting with centres and Ofqual for months to try and make this process work. It was only ever going to be making the best of a bad situation, but the methodology has been agreed for a while now* and he just decided to piss all over that in a craven moment.

*Which makes whinging from certain quarters a little difficult to swallow. Hardly surprising, though, I can't remember a results period that wasn't riven with the cry of "It's not fair".

Posted: **Thu Aug 13, 2020 3:23 pm**

SaintK wrote: ↑Thu Aug 13, 2020 3:20 pm
Insane_Homer wrote: ↑Thu Aug 13, 2020 2:56 pm
When The Mail and The Telegraph are both having a go about it you know something is amiss or badly wrong!
Failed fireplace salesman Gavin Williamson was appalling on the morning round of interviews earlier. Must be on borrowed time already!

Not quite. Journos have had to change their copy a bit this year due to the different circumstances, but across the board they churn our a negative story every year.

It's either exams are too easy now/grade inflation or exams aren't fair and pupils aren't getting the grades they deserve.

Posted: **Thu Aug 13, 2020 3:23 pm**

Makes a mockery of the work most teachers put in to predict grades

Government are twats

Posted: **Thu Aug 13, 2020 3:33 pm**

URH wrote: ↑Thu Aug 13, 2020 3:23 pm Makes a mockery of the work most teachers put in to predict grades

Government are twats

Has anyone in NI come up with a cross reference of last years results in NI and in England v this years results?

If memory serves correctly NI were previously getting better average results than England. If the results are now more equal it could be an indicator that the algorithms were skewed in a certain direction.

Posted: **Thu Aug 13, 2020 3:40 pm**

Openside wrote: ↑Thu Aug 13, 2020 3:19 pm
Insane_Homer wrote: ↑Thu Aug 13, 2020 2:21 pm I bet all the private schools kids did OK
I jolly well hope so you deserve a return on that investment.

This and the Rona has certainly helped make our mind up for the eldest. I’m poorer of course which is a shame.

Posted: **Thu Aug 13, 2020 3:50 pm**

Gav is a gonner, the mop haired cockwomble hasn't forgiven him for fucking up schools reopening. Cuntmings has already written Gavins resignation letter

Posted: **Thu Aug 13, 2020 3:52 pm**

.OverThere wrote: ↑Thu Aug 13, 2020 1:38 pm
Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Thu Aug 13, 2020 1:09 pm Purely anecdotal, but there does seem to be something amiss somewhere.

Sister in law was round earlier who's the head of department at a sixth form college. Her students had been pretty brutally downgraded from the predictions submitted.

I forget the exact metric, but in the last five years the results hadn't been below 63%. This year they were 59% after being downgraded (down from 75% last year). May have just been a shit year group, but seems a bit steep.
She should complain to the Guardian. Whats your assessment of the school's postcode? Is it a new type academy?

Large 6th form college drawing from a pretty wide area. Not sure whether it's an academy.

They are going through whatever appeals process there is.

Posted: **Thu Aug 13, 2020 3:59 pm**

Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Thu Aug 13, 2020 3:52 pm
.OverThere wrote: ↑Thu Aug 13, 2020 1:38 pm
Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Thu Aug 13, 2020 1:09 pm Purely anecdotal, but there does seem to be something amiss somewhere.

Sister in law was round earlier who's the head of department at a sixth form college. Her students had been pretty brutally downgraded from the predictions submitted.

I forget the exact metric, but in the last five years the results hadn't been below 63%. This year they were 59% after being downgraded (down from 75% last year). May have just been a shit year group, but seems a bit steep.
She should complain to the Guardian. Whats your assessment of the school's postcode? Is it a new type academy?
Large 6th form college drawing from a pretty wide area. Not sure whether it's an academy.

They are going through whatever appeals process there is.

Posted: **Thu Aug 13, 2020 4:00 pm**

ASMO wrote: ↑Thu Aug 13, 2020 3:50 pm Gav is a gonner, the mop haired cockwomble hasn't forgiven him for fucking up schools reopening. Cuntmings has already written Gavins resignation letter

..................and here's the reassuring"vote of confidence" in Williamson

Asked if he has confidence in Williamson, he said:
Of course I do, but I think this is a robust system and it’s one that is dependable for employers. It’s very important that for years to come people should be able to look at these grades and think these are robust, these are dependable.”

"robust and dependable" my arse.

Posted: **Thu Aug 13, 2020 4:01 pm**

.OverThere wrote: ↑Thu Aug 13, 2020 3:33 pm
URH wrote: ↑Thu Aug 13, 2020 3:23 pm Makes a mockery of the work most teachers put in to predict grades

Government are twats
Has anyone in NI come up with a cross reference of last years results in NI and in England v this years results?

If memory serves correctly NI were previously getting better average results than England. If the results are now more equal it could be an indicator that the algorithms were skewed in a certain direction.

Not that i’m aware of but its probably not difficult to do. Without going in to the fine detail with our grades we did them all initially and resubmit as the originals were probably too likely to go down, so we had to mark them down on top of this. Saying that, universities over here sent out around 70% of offers about a month ago regardless of results, which is a bit bizarre.

Posted: **Thu Aug 13, 2020 4:11 pm**

URH wrote: ↑Thu Aug 13, 2020 4:01 pm
.OverThere wrote: ↑Thu Aug 13, 2020 3:33 pm
URH wrote: ↑Thu Aug 13, 2020 3:23 pm Makes a mockery of the work most teachers put in to predict grades

Government are twats
Has anyone in NI come up with a cross reference of last years results in NI and in England v this years results?

If memory serves correctly NI were previously getting better average results than England. If the results are now more equal it could be an indicator that the algorithms were skewed in a certain direction.
Not that i’m aware of but its probably not difficult to do. Without going in to the fine detail with our grades we did them all initially and resubmit as the originals were probably too likely to go down, so we had to mark them down on top of this. Saying that, universities over here sent out around 70% of offers about a month ago regardless of results, which is a bit bizarre.

No matter which system is used there will be winners and losers.
Hopefully anyone who feels hard done by can stay committed to education, and prove themselves when the next exams take place.

Posted: **Thu Aug 13, 2020 4:19 pm**

How accurate are teachers predicted grades normally?

As to using mock results
Back when I took O and A levels, mocks were taken very seriously.

If you failed the mock you quite often werent allowed to take the actual exam.
Extra schoolwork and take the exam during the Xmas term (if you passed those mocks)

Ahh, learning or not French

Posted: **Thu Aug 13, 2020 4:33 pm**

Glaston wrote: ↑Thu Aug 13, 2020 4:19 pm How accurate are teachers predicted grades normally?

As to using mock results
Back when I took O and A levels, mocks were taken very seriously.

If you failed the mock you quite often werent allowed to take the actual exam.
Extra schoolwork and take the exam during the Xmas term (if you passed those mocks)

Ahh, learning or not French

The problem with them is they're in no way standardised even within centres, let alone between them. One department might intentionally make their paper substantially harder than the real thing and another won't. Some create papers more or less from scratch and others just grab a past paper from an exam board website. There are plenty of kids whose mocks serve as a wake up call to them to put in more effort for the real thing.

Mocks are a terrible as a scalable basis for grade estimation.

Posted: **Thu Aug 13, 2020 5:18 pm**

Ok so mocks are bad.

Other question is, did teachers know in advance that their predictions might be used ?

If yes, then I cant see how Teachers predictions are any more valid than mocks.

I dont understand why some people are upset that they have got lower grades than predicted. Surely that happen every year.

I would have loved to have been given my predicted grades rather than my actual ones

Posted: **Thu Aug 13, 2020 5:43 pm**

Glaston wrote: ↑Thu Aug 13, 2020 5:18 pm Ok so mocks are bad.

Other question is, did teachers know in advance that their predictions might be used ?

If yes, then I cant see how Teachers predictions are any more valid than mocks.

I dont understand why some people are upset that they have got lower grades than predicted. Surely that happen every year.

I would have loved to have been given my predicted grades rather than my actual ones

Exam boards have been working with Ofqual and centres for months on this, even before the official cancellation of exams. A lot of guidance was provided for how teachers should create their predictions and it has been known from the start that adjustments could be applied. It's not the standard internal predicted grades (which are often absurdly inflated) being used for this, but a specific submission teachers have been asked to come up with.

You are correct. Every single year around this time there are complaints about the fairness exam results because some don't do as well as they'd hoped.

Posted: **Fri Aug 14, 2020 6:14 am**

Fuck the Plebs.....

Posted: **Fri Aug 14, 2020 7:13 am**

Of course we can now see the results of teacher corruption in Scotland, where despite Corona virus etc Scottish children improved 18% plus on last years Scottish children.

Posted: **Fri Aug 14, 2020 7:43 am**

Bimbowomxn wrote: ↑Fri Aug 14, 2020 7:13 am Of course we can now see the results of teacher corruption in Scotland, where despite Corona virus etc Scottish children improved 18% plus on last years Scottish children.

You have evidence of this?

Posted: **Fri Aug 14, 2020 7:43 am**

Insane_Homer wrote: ↑Thu Aug 13, 2020 2:21 pm I bet all the private schools kids did OK

Posted: **Fri Aug 14, 2020 7:59 am**

ASMO wrote: ↑Fri Aug 14, 2020 7:43 am
Bimbowomxn wrote: ↑Fri Aug 14, 2020 7:13 am Of course we can now see the results of teacher corruption in Scotland, where despite Corona virus etc Scottish children improved 18% plus on last years Scottish children.
You have evidence of this?

14% here on basic grades, nothing done per pupil average.

https://www.ft.com/content/591f36a8-cbf ... c991977739

Posted: **Fri Aug 14, 2020 8:00 am**

Bimbowomxn wrote: ↑Fri Aug 14, 2020 7:59 am
ASMO wrote: ↑Fri Aug 14, 2020 7:43 am
Bimbowomxn wrote: ↑Fri Aug 14, 2020 7:13 am Of course we can now see the results of teacher corruption in Scotland, where despite Corona virus etc Scottish children improved 18% plus on last years Scottish children.
You have evidence of this?

14% here on basic grades, nothing done per pupil average.

https://www.ft.com/content/591f36a8-cbf ... c991977739

Let’s hope gap year kids nailed their places down early.

Posted: **Fri Aug 14, 2020 8:01 am**

That is not evidence, at best it is anecdotal. The same could be argued about the excessive jump in Independant schools, it must be corruption eh?

Posted: **Fri Aug 14, 2020 8:04 am**

ASMO wrote: ↑Fri Aug 14, 2020 8:01 am That is not evidence, at best it is anecdotal. The same could be argued about the excessive jump in Independant schools, it must be corruption eh?

Probably they’ve got money and their actual survival at risk.

One figure being actually higher than another isn’t an anecdote btw.

Posted: **Fri Aug 14, 2020 8:07 am**

Bimbowomxn wrote: ↑Fri Aug 14, 2020 8:04 am
ASMO wrote: ↑Fri Aug 14, 2020 8:01 am That is not evidence, at best it is anecdotal. The same could be argued about the excessive jump in Independant schools, it must be corruption eh?

Probably they’ve got money and their actual survival at risk.

One figure being actually higher than another isn’t an anecdote btw.

Also you’re now will fully conflating Scottish and English records.

Posted: **Fri Aug 14, 2020 8:47 am**

Bimbowomxn wrote: ↑Fri Aug 14, 2020 8:07 am
Bimbowomxn wrote: ↑Fri Aug 14, 2020 8:04 am
ASMO wrote: ↑Fri Aug 14, 2020 8:01 am That is not evidence, at best it is anecdotal. The same could be argued about the excessive jump in Independant schools, it must be corruption eh?

Probably they’ve got money and their actual survival at risk.

One figure being actually higher than another isn’t an anecdote btw.

Also you’re now will fully conflating Scottish and English records.

It is also not evidence for corruption

Posted: **Fri Aug 14, 2020 8:54 am**

Agreed. That’s my opinion alone.

Posted: **Fri Aug 14, 2020 9:29 am**

Bimbowomxn wrote: ↑Fri Aug 14, 2020 8:04 am
ASMO wrote: ↑Fri Aug 14, 2020 8:01 am That is not evidence, at best it is anecdotal. The same could be argued about the excessive jump in Independant schools, it must be corruption eh?

Probably they’ve got money and their actual survival at risk.

One figure being actually higher than another isn’t an anecdote btw.

One figure being higher than another and being the only thing used to justify an accusation of corruption is absolutely anecdotal evidence, and not empirical in any way.

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