I've only ever played chess for shits and giggles or to pass the time. Has anyone on here actually studied the game and worked at improving their chess skills in a more concerted fashion?
My son told me he would like to learn how to play and rather than just teaching him the bare bones rules I thought it might be worthwhile to actually dive into the whole thing in a more methodical way.
Is it actually possible to improve your chess playing capabilities or do you think that most people either have that gift or they don't?
Re: Chess
Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 12:36 am
by Hugo
Btw, obviously not trying to make a grandmaster out of my kid, just thinking of all the benefits of concentration, tactical decision making etc. that chess could bestow.
Re: Chess
Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 12:42 am
by stunt_cunt
The more you play the better you should get. Like anything else experience can go a long way.
I've known how to play chess, or move the pieces around the board since I was maybe 10-11, but never really got into it so I come unstuck pretty quick when playing someone with even a hint of tactical ability.
I imagine there are all types of apps and shared knowledge freely available to sharpen up faster, depends on how motivated you are to get into it.
Re: Chess
Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 12:57 am
by Caley_Red
I would start by studying openings, you can find lots of information online but there are several seminal books available.
If you can master 3 to 4 openings, and have a good mid game, you'll beat virtually anyone who hasn't studied the game.
With regards to improving the rest of the game, there are other books (I can't say I have read any) but the main way I would break it down is master openings and then look to improve mid and finish thereafter.
Re: Chess
Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 3:16 am
by Stannis
Chess.com is a great website with thousands of players at all different levels. Play for fun to start and then study some tactics/openings.
Re: Chess
Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 5:56 am
by Hugo
Stannis wrote: ↑Mon Aug 24, 2020 3:16 am
Chess.com is a great website with thousands of players at all different levels. Play for fun to start and then study some tactics/openings.
Thanks for the suggestion - I've just spent the last few hours on there playing the computer on both the easiest level and the hardest. I thought that I would see if there were any glaring differences in the computers strategy at the respective levels.
The easiest level it seems the computer deliberately makes dumb moves or doesn't take your pieces when it has the opportunity 100% of the time so it was somewhat easy to win those matches just pursuing a low risk, conservative game plan of just not making a mistake. At the hardest level I lost every match within about 15 moves and I noticed that in at least half of the matches the computer castled. That caused me a lot of problems because that rook was "in play" and on a few occasions put me in check or prevented me from moving out of check in that direction.
The thing I noticed on hard level is how efficient the computer was. Virtually every move put me on the back foot and once it was in the ascendancy it presses home its advantage mercilessly. You are punished for any error.
stunt_cunt wrote: ↑Mon Aug 24, 2020 12:42 am I've known how to play chess, or move the pieces around the board since I was maybe 10-11, but never really got into it so I come unstuck pretty quick when playing someone with even a hint of tactical ability.
Same. I was in the chess club for about a month in secondary school and pretty much quit after getting beaten handily every day by these genius mathematician types.
Caley_Red wrote: ↑Mon Aug 24, 2020 12:57 am
I would start by studying openings, you can find lots of information online but there are several seminal books available.
If you can master 3 to 4 openings, and have a good mid game, you'll beat virtually anyone who hasn't studied the game.
With regards to improving the rest of the game, there are other books (I can't say I have read any) but the main way I would break it down is master openings and then look to improve mid and finish thereafter.
Thanks, studying books sounds the way to go and like you say mastering a few openings . There must be some overall "rules of thumb" that you can pick up along the way also.
stunt_cunt wrote: ↑Mon Aug 24, 2020 12:42 amThe more you play the better you should get. Like anything else experience can go a long way.
Sound advice. I am hopeful with a bit of study and practice I should get the hang of it.
Stannis wrote: ↑Mon Aug 24, 2020 3:16 am
Chess.com is a great website with thousands of players at all different levels. Play for fun to start and then study some tactics/openings.
Thanks for the suggestion - I've just spent the last few hours on there playing the computer on both the easiest level and the hardest. I thought that I would see if there were any glaring differences in the computers strategy at the respective levels.
The easiest level it seems the computer deliberately makes dumb moves or doesn't take your pieces when it has the opportunity 100% of the time so it was somewhat easy to win those matches just pursuing a low risk, conservative game plan of just not making a mistake. At the hardest level I lost every match within about 15 moves and I noticed that in at least half of the matches the computer castled. That caused me a lot of problems because that rook was "in play" and on a few occasions put me in check or prevented me from moving out of check in that direction.
The thing I noticed on hard level is how efficient the computer was. Virtually every move put me on the back foot and once it was in the ascendancy it presses home its advantage mercilessly. You are punished for any error.
stunt_cunt wrote: ↑Mon Aug 24, 2020 12:42 am I've known how to play chess, or move the pieces around the board since I was maybe 10-11, but never really got into it so I come unstuck pretty quick when playing someone with even a hint of tactical ability.
Same. I was in the chess club for about a month in secondary school and pretty much quit after getting beaten handily every day by these genius mathematician types.
quote=Caley_Red post_id=21830 time=1598230627 user_id=146]
I would start by studying openings, you can find lots of information online but there are several seminal books available.
If you can master 3 to 4 openings, and have a good mid game, you'll beat virtually anyone who hasn't studied the game.
With regards to improving the rest of the game, there are other books (I can't say I have read any) but the main way I would break it down is master openings and then look to improve mid and finish thereafter.
Variants of the Spanish and Italian game are my preferred openings as they pin opposition pawns through aggressive bishops and allow you to castle early, I'd start with those two.
Re: Chess
Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 2:33 pm
by clydecloggie
I play on Gameknot, which is very nice.
Learned the basics when I was 7 or 8, but never bothered with properly diving into opening strategy etc.
When I got back on Gameknot earlier this year i noticed that I either won a tense fight where I only started dominating when we both had very few pieces left, or got completely obliterated warly on by someone who clearly knew how to play a specific opening.
As a result, I started looking into it a bit, basically by Googling for best openings for white and best defences against 1. e4 and 1. d4. I now start all games with the same move, and react to opening moves by my opponent with the same moves every game. Within 4-5 moves it'll go into, for me, uncharted territory, but at least I'm not hopelessly behind by that time like I used to be quite often.
Great game, although it's basically been solved by AI - as all open information games are. It's an exercise in human imperfection, pretty much.
Re: Chess
Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 2:50 pm
by Sandstorm
Cheat
Re: Chess
Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 2:52 pm
by robmatic
Stannis wrote: ↑Mon Aug 24, 2020 3:16 am
Chess.com is a great website with thousands of players at all different levels. Play for fun to start and then study some tactics/openings.
I use their Android app and have found the lessons and puzzles useful. I'm definitely improving from using the app, but it takes work for me as I don't seem to have a brain for tactics.
Aye. Obviously I should all work it out myself from first principles, like the rest of the world.
For the record, I've never put a live position in a match into a computer aid. Swears.
Re: Chess
Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 3:04 pm
by Ali Cadoo
Check out Ben Finegold's chess classes on youtube.com
As well as being endlessly entertaining in a grumpy, thrice-divorced, probably alcoholic kind of way, he's great at explaining things - and imparting a love of the game which is pretty infectious.
Re: Chess
Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 3:33 pm
by Slick
Christ, he looks like he could do with an outdoor hobby as well.
Re: Chess
Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 3:53 pm
by Sandstorm
Slick wrote: ↑Mon Aug 24, 2020 3:33 pm
Christ, he looks like he could do with an outdoor hobby as well.
Is he looking at my rook or the light fixture?
Re: Chess
Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 4:21 pm
by Ali Cadoo
Oh yeah, he's a poster-boy for dedicating your life to an intellectual pursuit.
Re: Chess
Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 5:21 pm
by Un Pilier
Hugo wrote: ↑Mon Aug 24, 2020 12:35 am
I've only ever played chess for shits and giggles or to pass the time. Has anyone on here actually studied the game and worked at improving their chess skills in a more concerted fashion?
My son told me he would like to learn how to play and rather than just teaching him the bare bones rules I thought it might be worthwhile to actually dive into the whole thing in a more methodical way.
Is it actually possible to improve your chess playing capabilities or do you think that most people either have that gift or they don't?
Yes, I study the game quite a bit and play to a reasonably strong level. It absolutely is possible to improve one’s chess and by multiple methods and it’s never been easier given t’interweb resources that didn’t exist until recently. Once your son has some knowledge of the basic moves it’s a good idea to learn a few basic principles and perhaps introduce a few basic openings. Don’t focus on learning openings, for example, by rote; the important thing is to build an understanding of the reasons for the constituent moves over time.
There are hundreds of openings and variations of openings in chess. Rather than scattergun effort across these, try to focus on a small repertoire, again seeking to understand why each move is made. Chose a repertoire of relativity straight forward openings rather than those with multiple complex lines. I could offer some suggestions if you wish.
A good book on chess principles can serve as a reference that can be returned to time and time again. Don’t know how old / keen your son is - it needs to be appropriate- start simple and progress from there. At some stage a collection of annotated games that can be played through is invaluable. Your son won’t be ready yet but “Logical Chess” by Irving Chernev is still a classic for very good reasons. There is of course a fabulous array of knowledge, tools and resources online, but take care to choose wisely. Chess.com is good but a bit daunting- you might take a look at Chessworld.net instead. Let me know if your son decides to join that or register as a guest - I know someone who might coach him for a few games.
Finally it’s important to play, play, play. School clubs? Local chess club? Online? (Again, chessworld hosts beginner level chess tournaments).
I hope it goes well. Chess is the most noble of games and one that can provide fascination., growth and entertainment throughout life. It’s been played all over the World for many centuries and is the only game I can think of where luck plays no part whatsoever.
Re: Chess
Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 6:00 pm
by Bokkom
I've been on chess.com for the last three years. Never studied the game and just play for fun. I am stuck between 1040 and 1100 and keep threatening myself to study a few opening moves just to get out of this rut.
Alas, it hasn't happened yet. Good fun tho.
Re: Chess
Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 7:08 pm
by Ali Cadoo
I can heartily recommend joining a Mickey Mouse chess site like chessmaniacs.com where you will quickly rise to a rating in the mid 1800s by dint of not timing-out on your games. You will feel remarkably smug about your new found and completely unmerited chess credibility, as long as you don’t play people who know better.
Hugo wrote: ↑Mon Aug 24, 2020 12:35 am
I've only ever played chess for shits and giggles or to pass the time. Has anyone on here actually studied the game and worked at improving their chess skills in a more concerted fashion?
My son told me he would like to learn how to play and rather than just teaching him the bare bones rules I thought it might be worthwhile to actually dive into the whole thing in a more methodical way.
Is it actually possible to improve your chess playing capabilities or do you think that most people either have that gift or they don't?
Yes, I study the game quite a bit and play to a reasonably strong level. It absolutely is possible to improve one’s chess and by multiple methods and it’s never been easier given t’interweb resources that didn’t exist until recently. Once your son has some knowledge of the basic moves it’s a good idea to learn a few basic principles and perhaps introduce a few basic openings. Don’t focus on learning openings, for example, by rote; the important thing is to build an understanding of the reasons for the constituent moves over time.
There are hundreds of openings and variations of openings in chess. Rather than scattergun effort across these, try to focus on a small repertoire, again seeking to understand why each move is made. Chose a repertoire of relativity straight forward openings rather than those with multiple complex lines. I could offer some suggestions if you wish.
A good book on chess principles can serve as a reference that can be returned to time and time again. Don’t know how old / keen your son is - it needs to be appropriate- start simple and progress from there. At some stage a collection of annotated games that can be played through is invaluable. Your son won’t be ready yet but “Logical Chess” by Irving Chernev is still a classic for very good reasons. There is of course a fabulous array of knowledge, tools and resources online, but take care to choose wisely. Chess.com is good but a bit daunting- you might take a look at Chessworld.net instead. Let me know if your son decides to join that or register as a guest - I know someone who might coach him for a few games.
Finally it’s important to play, play, play. School clubs? Local chess club? Online? (Again, chessworld hosts beginner level chess tournaments).
I hope it goes well. Chess is the most noble of games and one that can provide fascination., growth and entertainment throughout life. It’s been played all over the World for many centuries and is the only game I can think of where luck plays no part whatsoever.
Thanks for all the info, I will try and grab a copy of that book by Chernev. You're right chess is a fascinating sport with a very interesting culture. I was just checking out the list of chess grandmasters - Serbia (with a population of 7 million) has 55 grandmasters. Must be the pound for pound best chess nation in the world.
The Russians have double the number of grandmasters that the next highest ranked country (Germany) have, 234 to 92. Of the major rugby playing nations France lead the way with 50. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography_of_chess
Re: Chess
Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 7:39 pm
by Flockwitt
I used to be reasonable as a kid, gave it up though. Important is to teach the basics and why the basics work - developing pieces, commanding open files, commanding the middle 4 squares, things like that. Memorizing openings is useful, but only in conjunction with the why behind it all and how to win the end game. Many used to tell you to learn the end games first, so you understand what everything is leading to. There's so much on-line content learning is so much easier than it was, when you used to be limited to availability of printed books and who was a member of your local chess club.
Re: Chess
Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 9:04 pm
by Gurudoright
I look after my (Western Sydney public )school’s Chess team and social club. It was something I got stuck with 8 years ago. Although it is a pleasure to run as it is all well-behaved kids. I love playing Chess but most of my players can wipe the floor with me. I often hear them talking about opening moves etc and it goes over my head. A lot of my players use chess.com as they can look through their moves and it rates each move when reviewing the game afterwards.
Re: Chess
Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2020 9:26 pm
by Un Pilier
Gurudoright wrote: ↑Mon Aug 24, 2020 9:04 pm
I look after my (Western Sydney public )school’s Chess team and social club. It was something I got stuck with 8 years ago. Although it is a pleasure to run as it is all well-behaved kids. I love playing Chess but most of my players can wipe the floor with me. I often hear them talking about opening moves etc and it goes over my head. A lot of my players use chess.com as they can look through their moves and it rates each move when reviewing the game afterwards.
Opening moves and strategy are a matter of study and application. If people are reviewing past games using computer analysis and learning from it that’s good or at least okay depending on your point of view. If they are honing their ability playing computers for practice that’s okay, although computers don’t always play like humans. If, however, people are using computers to analyse moves during a game in progress that’s cheating. I’m not suggesting that’s happening but you see this sometimes playing online chess, when a pretty average player comes up with a grand-master move requiring multiple levels of calculation. Usually they are called out pdq. Over the board it’s hard to cheat though that hasn’t stopped some people trying.
