NPR

We have a weekend off to reflect on today's test match, and then we're back into it the following weekend. looking forward to a Saturday night test.

The tight five was where I’d expected the ABs would assert dominance. But we saw a pretty weak scrum for the first several and a not great lineout. Not very tight of the tight 5.

The Aus scrum was dominant at the start, and their own screaming at lineout time certainly disrupted our tight 5.

Loosies put their hands up though.

Smith needs to wear one of these over his right boot.



Can’t complain about the backs who all did their positional jobs well esp. Clark and BB.

Great OP, Ali, but I think you’ll find the match is on Saturday.

So it seems the All Blacks won't be taken a 45 man squad now that South Efrica aren't coming. Ardie Savea, Sevu Reece and Nepo Laulala might be late arrivals due to babies being imminent at home.

I hope to see Ngani Laumape make the trip and give another style/option at 2nd five.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all ... -australia

Looking forward to a few beers over this one, going to say it'll be a converted score either way.

Anyone going to the game? We were all set for SA-NZ in Newcastle until the news of SA pulling out, looking at what other games to attend in lieu.

Reece has an upcoming baby? ..didn't know he was in a relationship since.. u know when :P

stemoc wrote: ↑Mon Oct 19, 2020 5:12 am Reece has an upcoming baby? ..didn't know he was in a relationship since.. u know when :P

They never split up.

Assuming everyone in the squad's good to go, what changes should be made to the match day 23? Has anyone played themselves out of the reckoning?

I guess the availability of the expectant dads could be an important factor...

Gumboot wrote: ↑Mon Oct 19, 2020 6:06 am Assuming everyone in the squad's good to go, what changes should be made to the match day 23? Has anyone played themselves out of the reckoning?

I guess the availability of the expectant dads could be an important factor...

Assuming everyone is fit & available, the only changes I would make are Laulala starting and Tu'ungafaasi to the bench, Whitelock and Barrett starting with PT to the bench, Goodhue & ALB swapping jerseys, and Laumape on the bench for PUJ. Ideally I would also swap Jordie for Jordan, but I would prefer to minimise changes to develop combinations, and with a game plan than makes better use of his biggest assets (boot, high ball, size) I can see Jordie's worth.

starting to love him lol

mrbrownstone wrote: ↑Mon Oct 19, 2020 6:10 am

Gumboot wrote: ↑Mon Oct 19, 2020 6:06 am Assuming everyone in the squad's good to go, what changes should be made to the match day 23? Has anyone played themselves out of the reckoning?

I guess the availability of the expectant dads could be an important factor...

Assuming everyone is fit & available, the only changes I would make are Laulala starting and Tu'ungafaasi to the bench, Whitelock and Barrett starting with PT to the bench, Goodhue & ALB swapping jerseys, and Laumape on the bench for PUJ. Ideally I would also swap Jordie for Jordan, but I would prefer to minimise changes to develop combinations, and with a game plan than makes better use of his biggest assets (boot, high ball, size) I can see Jordie's worth.

Reckon Scott Barrett will be on bench, with SW and PT starting, don't think they will swap ALB and Goodhue, and think PUJ will stay on bench if Ioane still injured, can see Lumpy coming in against Pumas. Like you wouldn't mind seeing Jodan at 14, but I not sure they will make too many changes if not needed.
One of Oz posters on another thread feeling perhaps DR is too quick to change players lol see you damned if you do and damned if you don't. He pointed out after first test if Fozzie took DR's approach perhaps RM, Ardie or PT may of not started at Eden Pk as they hadn't been on top of their game at Wellington, and I mentioned I thought they went well. Just shows huh?

Dan54 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 12:28 am

mrbrownstone wrote: ↑Mon Oct 19, 2020 6:10 am

Gumboot wrote: ↑Mon Oct 19, 2020 6:06 am Assuming everyone in the squad's good to go, what changes should be made to the match day 23? Has anyone played themselves out of the reckoning?

I guess the availability of the expectant dads could be an important factor...

Assuming everyone is fit & available, the only changes I would make are Laulala starting and Tu'ungafaasi to the bench, Whitelock and Barrett starting with PT to the bench, Goodhue & ALB swapping jerseys, and Laumape on the bench for PUJ. Ideally I would also swap Jordie for Jordan, but I would prefer to minimise changes to develop combinations, and with a game plan than makes better use of his biggest assets (boot, high ball, size) I can see Jordie's worth.

Reckon Scott Barrett will be on bench, with SW and PT starting, don't think they will swap ALB and Goodhue, and think PUJ will stay on bench if Ioane still injured, can see Lumpy coming in against Pumas. Like you wouldn't mind seeing Jodan at 14, but I not sure they will make too many changes if not needed.
One of Oz posters on another thread feeling perhaps DR is too quick to change players lol see you damned if you do and damned if you don't. He pointed out after first test if Fozzie took DR's approach perhaps RM, Ardie or PT may of not started at Eden Pk as they hadn't been on top of their game at Wellington, and I mentioned I thought they went well. Just shows huh?

You're only damned if you lose. Changes/or non-changes that precede a loss will reflect badly on a coach.

That's why some of us were so fraustrated with Hansen and Foster. They enjoyed a winning % of close to 90%, but still chopped and changed constantly between 2015 and 2019. There was no need to rotate as much as they did.

Carter's Choice wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 12:58 am

Dan54 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 12:28 am

mrbrownstone wrote: ↑Mon Oct 19, 2020 6:10 am

Assuming everyone is fit & available, the only changes I would make are Laulala starting and Tu'ungafaasi to the bench, Whitelock and Barrett starting with PT to the bench, Goodhue & ALB swapping jerseys, and Laumape on the bench for PUJ. Ideally I would also swap Jordie for Jordan, but I would prefer to minimise changes to develop combinations, and with a game plan than makes better use of his biggest assets (boot, high ball, size) I can see Jordie's worth.

Reckon Scott Barrett will be on bench, with SW and PT starting, don't think they will swap ALB and Goodhue, and think PUJ will stay on bench if Ioane still injured, can see Lumpy coming in against Pumas. Like you wouldn't mind seeing Jodan at 14, but I not sure they will make too many changes if not needed.
One of Oz posters on another thread feeling perhaps DR is too quick to change players lol see you damned if you do and damned if you don't. He pointed out after first test if Fozzie took DR's approach perhaps RM, Ardie or PT may of not started at Eden Pk as they hadn't been on top of their game at Wellington, and I mentioned I thought they went well. Just shows huh?

You're only damned if you lose. Changes/or non-changes that precede a loss will reflect badly on a coach.

That's why some of us were so fraustrated with Hansen and Foster. They enjoyed a winning % of close to 90%, but still chopped and changed constantly between 2015 and 2019. There was no need to rotate as much as they did.

I definitely want to see Foster sticking with ALB/Goodhue in the mid-field and don't mind as much the numbers on their backs, as long as they are there.

I think the midfield stays with Jordie and Clarke running hard lines to make up for the lack of a big midfielder.

Kiwias wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 2:07 am

Carter's Choice wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 12:58 am

Dan54 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 12:28 am
Reckon Scott Barrett will be on bench, with SW and PT starting, don't think they will swap ALB and Goodhue, and think PUJ will stay on bench if Ioane still injured, can see Lumpy coming in against Pumas. Like you wouldn't mind seeing Jodan at 14, but I not sure they will make too many changes if not needed.
One of Oz posters on another thread feeling perhaps DR is too quick to change players lol see you damned if you do and damned if you don't. He pointed out after first test if Fozzie took DR's approach perhaps RM, Ardie or PT may of not started at Eden Pk as they hadn't been on top of their game at Wellington, and I mentioned I thought they went well. Just shows huh?

You're only damned if you lose. Changes/or non-changes that precede a loss will reflect badly on a coach.

That's why some of us were so fraustrated with Hansen and Foster. They enjoyed a winning % of close to 90%, but still chopped and changed constantly between 2015 and 2019. There was no need to rotate as much as they did.

I definitely want to see Foster sticking with ALB/Goodhue in the mid-field and don't mind as much the numbers on their backs, as long as they are there.

I'd agree. They have proven they are our best available midfield both on attack and defence and though I'd prefer to see ALB at 12 and Goodhue 13, they are good enough to play either way.

Du'Plessis Kirifi and George Bower added to the 38 man squad for these fixtures.

Both seem like strange selections. George Bower reflects our lack of loosehead depth I suppose. I would have thought Ayden Johnstone or DLB would have been ahead of him. Reuben O'Neill has also made squads before. Another in a long line of Crusaders tight forwards achieving higher honours I guess.

Du'Plessis Kirifi being selected over Boshier will raise a few eyebrows. Not sure what more Boshier has to do.

Otago prop Bower and Wellington loose forward Kirifi were named on Tuesday as new faces in Ian Foster's 36-strong travelling squad to provide additional cover, with Joe Moody going through HIA (head injury assessment) protocols and fellow front-rower Nepo Laulala and loosie Ardie Savea both on paternity leave.

So Laulala and Ardie will both miss this game at least. Probably good news for Sotutu. Will be interesting to see how we go with a more traditional loose forward balance I guess.

Carter's Choice wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 12:58 am

Dan54 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 12:28 am

mrbrownstone wrote: ↑Mon Oct 19, 2020 6:10 am

Assuming everyone is fit & available, the only changes I would make are Laulala starting and Tu'ungafaasi to the bench, Whitelock and Barrett starting with PT to the bench, Goodhue & ALB swapping jerseys, and Laumape on the bench for PUJ. Ideally I would also swap Jordie for Jordan, but I would prefer to minimise changes to develop combinations, and with a game plan than makes better use of his biggest assets (boot, high ball, size) I can see Jordie's worth.

Reckon Scott Barrett will be on bench, with SW and PT starting, don't think they will swap ALB and Goodhue, and think PUJ will stay on bench if Ioane still injured, can see Lumpy coming in against Pumas. Like you wouldn't mind seeing Jodan at 14, but I not sure they will make too many changes if not needed.
One of Oz posters on another thread feeling perhaps DR is too quick to change players lol see you damned if you do and damned if you don't. He pointed out after first test if Fozzie took DR's approach perhaps RM, Ardie or PT may of not started at Eden Pk as they hadn't been on top of their game at Wellington, and I mentioned I thought they went well. Just shows huh?

You're only damned if you lose. Changes/or non-changes that precede a loss will reflect badly on a coach.

That's why some of us were so fraustrated with Hansen and Foster. They enjoyed a winning % of close to 90%, but still chopped and changed constantly between 2015 and 2019. There was no need to rotate as much as they did.

Fair enough I know what you mean, just saying that DR is suddenly in some opinions not the bees knees as coach because he changed a team that drew a match to a team that lost a match, where as Fozzie seems of changed a team that drew a match to one that won the next one, so he seemed to hint it made Fozzie a better coach. I don't really agree it's right, but just saying how quickly opinions seem to change on coaches. I would still prefer coaches that changed teams with a 90% win record than one that didn't make changes to a team that lost 40%. My only real point was that it shows how fickle the posters on a rugby forum can be.

mrbrownstone wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 4:25 am Du'Plessis Kirifi and George Bower added to the 38 man squad for these fixtures.

Both seem like strange selections. George Bower reflects our lack of loosehead depth I suppose. I would have thought Ayden Johnstone or DLB would have been ahead of him. Reuben O'Neill has also made squads before. Another in a long line of Crusaders tight forwards achieving higher honours I guess.

Du'Plessis Kirifi being selected over Boshier will raise a few eyebrows. Not sure what more Boshier has to do.

This smells like a Plumtree selection. Although, you can see the logic as Kirifi is a like-for-like replacement for Savea, in regards to his playing style, skillset & what he brings to the balance of a loose-forward trio.

It doesn't really matter either way because Kirifi/Boshier wouldn't be getting any game time. He's simply in the squad for cover.

Sotutu, Grace, Papili, Ioane etc.. are ahead in the pecking order.

Boshier is far better off playing full minutes in Mitre Ten Cup.

mrbrownstone wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 4:25 am Du'Plessis Kirifi and George Bower added to the 38 man squad for these fixtures.

Both seem like strange selections. George Bower reflects our lack of loosehead depth I suppose. I would have thought Ayden Johnstone or DLB would have been ahead of him. Reuben O'Neill has also made squads before. Another in a long line of Crusaders tight forwards achieving higher honours I guess.

Du'Plessis Kirifi being selected over Boshier will raise a few eyebrows. Not sure what more Boshier has to do.

FOZPLUM OUT!!!!!!!!!!!

I hope Boshier has the attitude of a Matt Todd, content to stay in NZ til the twilight of his career despite being out of favour with the test coaches.

NZ pissing off fiji by capping 2 props fiji were eyeing, hodgy already and now bower..all cause we did not vote for their shitty biased Argentinian for WR boss

Dan54 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 4:48 am My only real point was that it shows how fickle the posters on a rugby forum can be.

Yes, we are very fickle. The benefits of being armchair experts!

George Bower is rather left field isn't he?

Turbster wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 6:22 am George Bower is rather left field isn't he?

He made the preliminary South Island squad iirc, so I guess they've had their eyes on him for a while. Looks like Gus Ta'avau's days in black might be over, though.

Gumboot wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 6:28 am

Turbster wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 6:22 am George Bower is rather left field isn't he?

He made the preliminary South Island squad iirc, so I guess they've had their eyes on him for a while. Looks like Gus Ta'avau's days in black might be over, though.

Ta'avao is a TH prop, Bower is a LH prop.

Carter's Choice wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 7:10 am

Gumboot wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 6:28 am

Turbster wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 6:22 am George Bower is rather left field isn't he?

He made the preliminary South Island squad iirc, so I guess they've had their eyes on him for a while. Looks like Gus Ta'avau's days in black might be over, though.

Ta'avao is a TH prop, Bower is a LH prop.

I thought Laulala was on paternity leave and there was also a chance they'd need another tighthead?

Gumboot wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 7:19 am I thought Laulala was on paternity leave and there was also a chance they'd need another tighthead?

Just had a look online and apparently George Bower is dual-sided, so he can play both LH and TH prop. He's had a good year this year but it's ridiculous that Mike Ala'alatoa, who has been the mainstay of the Crusaders scrum for years, was overlooked for an AB test cap but George Bower is likely to get one. That's just madness.

Carter's Choice wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 7:31 am

Gumboot wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 7:19 am I thought Laulala was on paternity leave and there was also a chance they'd need another tighthead?

Just had a look online and apparently George Bower is dual-sided, so he can play both LH and TH prop. He's had a good year this year but it's ridiculous that Mike Ala'alatoa, who has been the mainstay of the Crusaders scrum for years, was overlooked for an AB test cap but George Bower is likely to get one. That's just madness.

Mike is samoa capped now, Hansen refused to cap him so now he is lost to them

stemoc wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 7:36 am

Carter's Choice wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 7:31 am

Gumboot wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 7:19 am I thought Laulala was on paternity leave and there was also a chance they'd need another tighthead?

Just had a look online and apparently George Bower is dual-sided, so he can play both LH and TH prop. He's had a good year this year but it's ridiculous that Mike Ala'alatoa, who has been the mainstay of the Crusaders scrum for years, was overlooked for an AB test cap but George Bower is likely to get one. That's just madness.

Mike is samoa capped now, Hansen refused to cap him so now he is lost to them

Cheers Captain Obvious

Carter's Choice wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 7:38 am

stemoc wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 7:36 am

Carter's Choice wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 7:31 am

Just had a look online and apparently George Bower is dual-sided, so he can play both LH and TH prop. He's had a good year this year but it's ridiculous that Mike Ala'alatoa, who has been the mainstay of the Crusaders scrum for years, was overlooked for an AB test cap but George Bower is likely to get one. That's just madness.

Mike is samoa capped now, Hansen refused to cap him so now he is lost to them

Cheers Captain Obvious

different times Captain Lard Arse, under Hansen there were players better than Mike in that position though they are not as good anymore, but now the choices are limited, shame both Bower and Hodgman will be 'cap and drop' Mike made the right decision.

No Ardie is a big worry. He’s been immense in the two games played.

Carter's Choice wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 6:08 am

Dan54 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 4:48 am My only real point was that it shows how fickle the posters on a rugby forum can be.

Yes, we are very fickle. The benefits of being armchair experts!

Shanky’s mate wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 4:26 pm No Ardie is a big worry. He’s been immense in the two games played.

He has been. I'm also not sure if Hoskins Sotutu is a like for like replacement. Sotutu has more of an allround skillset (inluding being a genuine lineout target) as opposed to Savea whose main strengths are his ball running and pilfering. In saying that, a backrow of Sotutu/Frizell/Cane is about the most physically imposing we could name right now. I wonder if Frizell is going to be rested, and Akira Ioane given some match time. If so, I expect the Wallabies to target the breakdown because Ioane's clean out work is not test standard.

Carter's Choice wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 8:25 pm

Shanky’s mate wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 4:26 pm No Ardie is a big worry. He’s been immense in the two games played.

He has been. I'm also not sure if Hoskins Sotutu is a like for like replacement. Sotutu has more of an allround skillset (inluding being a genuine lineout target) as opposed to Savea whose main strengths are his ball running and pilfering. In saying that, a backrow of Sotutu/Frizell/Cane is about the most physically imposing we could name right now. I wonder if Frizell is going to be rested, and Akira Ioane given some match time. If so, I expect the Wallabies to target the breakdown because Ioane's clean out work is not test standard.

I can’t even comment of the possibility that Akira could be named as replacement for anyone, let alone Ardie Savea. That would make the continued selection of Jordie Barrett look like the work of a genius in comparison.

Ardie has been the difference between the packs for my money. Sotutu doesn’t look to have that battle hardened ferocity in his game yet. Whoever is named as the 3rd back rower is going to have to bring some mayhem to their game to counter Ardie’s absence. Good luck to him and his partner, by the way... taking the time out for an imminent birth is great. No begrudging that from me.

I think Sotutu's shown enough off the bench to get the start in Ardie's absence. Frizell played really well in Auckland, so I hope they keep starting him. Any big changes like Akira starting will probably come against Argentina. The top priorities right now should be building combinations and banking the Bledisloe Cup.

Gumboot wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:23 pm I think Sotutu's shown enough off the bench to get the start in Ardie's absence. Frizell played really well in Auckland, so I hope they keep starting him. Any big changes like Akira starting will probably come against Argentina. The top priorities right now should be building combinations and banking the Bledisloe Cup.

I agree, especially with no June/July tests and no EOYT, this is not the year to make changes for changes sake. Foster needs to try as much as he can to bed down his preferred first choice XXIII and give them some miles in the saddle.

Carter's Choice wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:59 pm

Gumboot wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:23 pm I think Sotutu's shown enough off the bench to get the start in Ardie's absence. Frizell played really well in Auckland, so I hope they keep starting him. Any big changes like Akira starting will probably come against Argentina. The top priorities right now should be building combinations and banking the Bledisloe Cup.

I agree, especially with no June/July tests and no EOYT, this is not the year to make changes for changes sake. Foster needs to try as much as he can to bed down his preferred first choice XXIII and give them some miles in the saddle.

Though I would like to see Papalii* or Grace given a crack at some stage, I tend to agree.

I am also shocked and disappointed hat Wellington has been, once again, gutted by the AB hierarchy. As other's have mentioned, I am also somewhat surprised by Bowers' inclusion. Is it the Wellington connection?

* Totally out of left field, can someone explain why Papalii doesn't have an apostrophe separating the i's? Is it simply that I am mispronouncing his name?

Ted. wrote: ↑Wed Oct 21, 2020 12:52 am

Carter's Choice wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:59 pm

Gumboot wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:23 pm I think Sotutu's shown enough off the bench to get the start in Ardie's absence. Frizell played really well in Auckland, so I hope they keep starting him. Any big changes like Akira starting will probably come against Argentina. The top priorities right now should be building combinations and banking the Bledisloe Cup.

I agree, especially with no June/July tests and no EOYT, this is not the year to make changes for changes sake. Foster needs to try as much as he can to bed down his preferred first choice XXIII and give them some miles in the saddle.

Though I would like to see Papalii* or Grace given a crack at some stage, I tend to agree.

I am also shocked and disappointed hat Wellington has been, once again, gutted by the AB hierarchy. As other's have mentioned, I am also somewhat surprised by Bowers' inclusion. Is it the Wellington connection?

* Totally out of left field, can someone explain why Papalii doesn't have an apostrophe separating the i's? Is it simply that I am mispronouncing his name?

With Ardie out, Papalii is likely to be on the bench covering the loose forwards, openside in particular. Not sure when Grace will get a run, though - they keep releasing him to play for Canterbury...

Carter's Choice wrote: ↑Tue Oct 20, 2020 12:58 amYou're only damned if you lose. Changes/or non-changes that precede a loss will reflect badly on a coach.

That's why some of us were so fraustrated with Hansen and Foster. They enjoyed a winning % of close to 90%, but still chopped and changed constantly between 2015 and 2019. There was no need to rotate as much as they did.

An apparent contradiction there. I'd have thought you'd be applauding the foresight of those rotations that resulted in such a win rate.