The Whisk(e)y Thread (Irish, Scottish, Miscellaneous)

[Hellraiser]

Currently enjoying a dram of this:

[iarmhí]

Noticing a lot of our newer whiskies are single malt and not single pot still. Wonder why that is.

What distinguished our whiskies from scotch was two things:

We triple distill while scotch is double distill
Our whiskey is single pot still while good scotch is single malt

[Oh fuck, it's Keith.]

*Whiskey, OP, Whiskey

[Camroc2]

The West Cork Distillery whiskies, currently in Lidl for about € 25 are interesting if still, at 5 years, a bit young.

And spell the word correctly, please.

[Hellraiser]

Noticing a lot of our newer whiskies are single malt and not single pot still. Wonder why that is.

What distinguished our whiskies from scotch was two things:

We triple distill while scotch is double distill
Our whiskey is single pot still while good scotch is single malt

Traditionally we would have double distilled too and some Scottish distilleries triple distil, such as Auchentoshan and Springbank. Our whiskey hasn't been majority pot still since the early 1970s. Mostly blend since then.

[Camroc2]

Noticing a lot of our newer whiskies are single malt and not single pot still. Wonder why that is.

What distinguished our whiskies from scotch was two things:

We triple distill while scotch is double distill
Our whiskey is single pot still while good scotch is single malt

The malts are still potstill.

Most whiskies are a blend between malted and grain barley. Malting the barley, ie getting it to germinate, turns the starches in the grain into sugars which gives, inter alia, a sweeter note to the finished product. The biggest difference between Scottish and Irish whiskies in general, is the peatiness in the Scotch.

[Hellraiser]

*Whiskey, OP, Whiskey

Original spelling is Whisky in Ireland too. Adding the "e" was a marketing tool by (primarily) Dublin distilleries in the late 19th Century. In pubs if you see old distillery or bonder mirrors that date back to the early 20th Century or before they will have Whisky on many of them.



Edit: have since learn I have fallen prey to an old but false narrative, as per below link:

https://wdoconnell.com/truths-about-whiskey/

[Hellraiser]

Noticing a lot of our newer whiskies are single malt and not single pot still. Wonder why that is.

What distinguished our whiskies from scotch was two things:

We triple distill while scotch is double distill
Our whiskey is single pot still while good scotch is single malt

The malts are still potstill.

Most whiskies are a blend between malted and grain barley. Malting the barley, ie getting it to germinate, turns the starches in the grain into sugars which gives, inter alia, a sweeter note to the finished product. The biggest difference between Scottish and Irish whiskies in general, is the peatiness in the Scotch.

Pot still is a mix of malted and unmalted barley plus varying combinations of other grains: wheat, oats, rye.

[Camroc2]

Noticing a lot of our newer whiskies are single malt and not single pot still. Wonder why that is.

What distinguished our whiskies from scotch was two things:

We triple distill while scotch is double distill
Our whiskey is single pot still while good scotch is single malt

The malts are still potstill.

Most whiskies are a blend between malted and grain barley. Malting the barley, ie getting it to germinate, turns the starches in the grain into sugars which gives, inter alia, a sweeter note to the finished product. The biggest difference between Scottish and Irish whiskies in general, is the peatiness in the Scotch.

Pot still is a mix of malted and unmalted barley plus varying combinations of other grains: wheat, oats, rye.

Yep, up to 5% other grains, iirc.

I did the Jameson tour and tastings a few years ago, and the basic tasting was comparing bog standard Jameson against Johnny Walker Black, and Jack Daniels.
You can really taste the difference between Irish, Scotch and Bourbon right there.

[iarmhí]

Irish whiskey is sweet and smooth.

Scotch is smoky and earthy

Dont know anything about Bourbon

[Camroc2]

Irish whiskey is sweet and smooth.

Scotch is smoky and earthy

Dont know anything about Bourbon

The big commercial brands are usually made with lots of corn (maize), which makes it very sweet indeed.

[Hellraiser]

The malts are still potstill.

Most whiskies are a blend between malted and grain barley. Malting the barley, ie getting it to germinate, turns the starches in the grain into sugars which gives, inter alia, a sweeter note to the finished product. The biggest difference between Scottish and Irish whiskies in general, is the peatiness in the Scotch.

Pot still is a mix of malted and unmalted barley plus varying combinations of other grains: wheat, oats, rye.

Yep, up to 5% other grains, iirc.

I did the Jameson tour and tastings a few years ago, and the basic tasting was comparing bog standard Jameson against Johnny Walker Black, and Jack Daniels.
You can really taste the difference between Irish, Scotch and Bourbon right there.

The technical file is bollox. When the legal definitions were being drawn up a few years ago, IDL used it's quasi monopoly position to basically ensure that it conformed to the mash bills of what they were currently distilling, NOT the traditional pot still mash bills which had no percentage requirements on the different amount of grains used. The technical file actually contradicts the recorded evidence of mash bills of both Jamesons and Powers dating back as far as the early 19th Century.

I know some distillers who are are currently distilling whiskey using pot still mash bills dating back as early as 1838 that currently will not legally be allowed to be sold as "pot still" when they are bottled.

[Camroc2]

Pot still is a mix of malted and unmalted barley plus varying combinations of other grains: wheat, oats, rye.

Yep, up to 5% other grains, iirc.

I did the Jameson tour and tastings a few years ago, and the basic tasting was comparing bog standard Jameson against Johnny Walker Black, and Jack Daniels.
You can really taste the difference between Irish, Scotch and Bourbon right there.

The technical file is bollox. When the legal definitions were being drawn up a few years ago, IDL used it's quasi monopoly position to basically ensure that it conformed to the mash bills of what they were currently distilling, NOT the traditional pot still mash bills which had no percentage requirements on the different amount of grains used. The technical file actually contradicts the recorded evidence of mash bills of both Jamesons and Powers dating back as far as the early 19th Century.

I know some distillers who are are currently distilling whiskey using pot still mash bills dating back as early as 1838 that currently will not legally be allowed to be sold as "pot still" when they are bottled.

That sounds like some fun and games in the future, as Irish Distillers influence is diluted ?

[Hellraiser]

Irish whiskey is sweet and smooth.

Scotch is smoky and earthy

Dont know anything about Bourbon

Scotch can vary quite a bit. People over here tend to have one of two ideas about it: a) peat and iodine (which is really Islay whiskys), or b) rough as fuck blend like Grants.

There are big differences between say Springbank and Bowmore, or Dalmore and Glenfiddich.

[Hellraiser]

Yep, up to 5% other grains, iirc.

I did the Jameson tour and tastings a few years ago, and the basic tasting was comparing bog standard Jameson against Johnny Walker Black, and Jack Daniels.
You can really taste the difference between Irish, Scotch and Bourbon right there.

The technical file is bollox. When the legal definitions were being drawn up a few years ago, IDL used it's quasi monopoly position to basically ensure that it conformed to the mash bills of what they were currently distilling, NOT the traditional pot still mash bills which had no percentage requirements on the different amount of grains used. The technical file actually contradicts the recorded evidence of mash bills of both Jamesons and Powers dating back as far as the early 19th Century.

I know some distillers who are are currently distilling whiskey using pot still mash bills dating back as early as 1838 that currently will not legally be allowed to be sold as "pot still" when they are bottled.

That sounds like some fun and games in the future, as Irish Distillers influence is diluted ?

Very much so. I've had an ex-IDL rep privately concede to me that the technical file will be re-opened as soon as the political will exists to do so. Talk to any of the distillers at the independents and they are straining at the leash; Peter Mulryan at Blackwater has been banging the drum for several years.

[Camroc2]

Irish whiskey is sweet and smooth.

Scotch is smoky and earthy

Dont know anything about Bourbon

Scotch can vary quite a bit. People over here tend to have one of two ideas about it: a) peat and iodine (which is really Islay whiskys), or b) rough as fuck blend like Grants.

There are big differences between say Springbank and Bowmore, or Dalmore and Glenfiddich.

They're all premium whiskies though, that have been handled carefully, and aged for a very long time in hand chosen casks.

Like Irish premium whiskies.

[Hellraiser]

Irish whiskey is sweet and smooth.

Scotch is smoky and earthy

Dont know anything about Bourbon

Scotch can vary quite a bit. People over here tend to have one of two ideas about it: a) peat and iodine (which is really Islay whiskys), or b) rough as fuck blend like Grants.

There are big differences between say Springbank and Bowmore, or Dalmore and Glenfiddich.

They're all premium whiskies though, that have been handled carefully, and aged for a very long time in hand chosen casks.

Like Irish premium whiskies.

True, the problem in Ireland is that the perception of what whiskey should be is basically determined by bog standard Jameson and this has been exported, literally and figuratively, to the rest of the world. Jameson blend is 70% grain and triple distilled meaning it is bland. Deliberately so as it is designed to appeal to as broad an audience as possible, like mass produced lager. Blends didn't feature on the Irish whiskey landscape until the late 1960s and was basically as result of the dire financial straights the Irish whiskey industry found itself in; what can we make that's cheap and will sell - high grain content blend, aged in widely available and inexpensive ex-bourbon barrels (that had never been a feature in Irish whiskey until after WWII) as fortified wine casks from Spain and Portugal were just too difficult and expensive to source according to the accountants.

[Slick]

Had an excellent on-line tasting at the weekend touring the regions of Scotland.

Auchentoshan - lowland - bit boring to be honest
Deanston 12yr - Highland - 2nd favourite of the night I think
Ben Riach - Speyside - Bought a bottle a few weeks ago on a whim, not my usual style but like it a lot
Glen Scotia 15yr - Cambeltown - Didn't like it but amazed you could really taste the salt from the surrounding sea
Bunnahabhain - Islay - probably my favourite of the night
Tobermory Ledaig - 18yr old - Mull - heavily peated, usually my type of thing
Jura 1984 - 30yrs - celebrating Orwell writing on the island. A huge treat at the end with a bottle costing £800

[S/Lt_Phillips]

Irish whiskey is sweet and smooth.

Scotch is smoky and earthy

Dont know anything about Bourbon

Scotch can vary quite a bit. People over here tend to have one of two ideas about it: a) peat and iodine (which is really Islay whiskys), or b) rough as fuck blend like Grants.

There are big differences between say Springbank and Bowmore, or Dalmore and Glenfiddich.

Not only are the different brands quite different, but The Scotch Malt Whisky Society sells bottles from individual casks (usually different casks are married to ensure that all bottles of the same brand of single malt tastes the same), and the differences can be quite stark. (A visit to their tasting rooms is recommended if you're visiting Edinburgh.)

They've also started doing cognacs and bourbons too. The biggest thing that struck me when tasting the bourbons was how much oak comes through - because by law they have to use new casks.

[robmatic]

Irish whiskey is sweet and smooth.

Scotch is smoky and earthy

Dont know anything about Bourbon

Scotch can vary quite a bit. People over here tend to have one of two ideas about it: a) peat and iodine (which is really Islay whiskys), or b) rough as fuck blend like Grants.

There are big differences between say Springbank and Bowmore, or Dalmore and Glenfiddich.

Not only are the different brands quite different, but The Scotch Malt Whisky Society sells bottles from individual casks (usually different casks are married to ensure that all bottles of the same brand of single malt tastes the same), and the differences can be quite stark. (A visit to their tasting rooms is recommended if you're visiting Edinburgh.)

They've also started doing cognacs and bourbons too. The biggest thing that struck me when tasting the bourbons was how much oak comes through - because by law they have to use new casks.

I very much enjoyed my membership of the SMWS when I lived in Edinburgh, walking distance from the tasting room on Queen Street.

[S/Lt_Phillips]

Scotch can vary quite a bit. People over here tend to have one of two ideas about it: a) peat and iodine (which is really Islay whiskys), or b) rough as fuck blend like Grants.

There are big differences between say Springbank and Bowmore, or Dalmore and Glenfiddich.

Not only are the different brands quite different, but The Scotch Malt Whisky Society sells bottles from individual casks (usually different casks are married to ensure that all bottles of the same brand of single malt tastes the same), and the differences can be quite stark. (A visit to their tasting rooms is recommended if you're visiting Edinburgh.)

They've also started doing cognacs and bourbons too. The biggest thing that struck me when tasting the bourbons was how much oak comes through - because by law they have to use new casks.

I very much enjoyed my membership of the SMWS when I lived in Edinburgh, walking distance from the tasting room on Queen Street.

There's one in London too.

[robmatic]

Not only are the different brands quite different, but The Scotch Malt Whisky Society sells bottles from individual casks (usually different casks are married to ensure that all bottles of the same brand of single malt tastes the same), and the differences can be quite stark. (A visit to their tasting rooms is recommended if you're visiting Edinburgh.)

They've also started doing cognacs and bourbons too. The biggest thing that struck me when tasting the bourbons was how much oak comes through - because by law they have to use new casks.

I very much enjoyed my membership of the SMWS when I lived in Edinburgh, walking distance from the tasting room on Queen Street.

There's one in London too.

Yeah, I went to that one although I generally try and avoid London.

[Hellraiser]

Just did a Belfast Whiskey Week pre-1970s Irish Whiskey tasting. Got to try a Knappogue Castle 1950 27 Year Old (Barry Daly & Co. spirit) and a Powers 30 Year Old (John's Lane spirit) both bottled in the 70s. Stunning stuff.

[Slick]

Had some Kingsbarns "Dream to Dram" from their first casks last night.

It's OK. My wife likes it as it is light but I found it a little dull. I had a fair bit of wine before though so will give it another try over the weekend.

[Un Pilier]

My normal whisky of choice is Bowmore 12 yo. I generally prefer Islay malts for the smoke, the ozone and iodine character and I like the Bowmore’s fruitiness. For a change I’ll sometimes have a Speyside malt, in which case a Macallan 12 yo is my choice. I once ordered a glass of the 20 yo at Gleneagles whilst feeling mellow in the bar. It cost more than a round of golf (#Globby)

[Punter15]

Irish whiskey is sweet and smooth.

Scotch is smoky and earthy

Dont know anything about Bourbon

Scotch can vary quite a bit. People over here tend to have one of two ideas about it: a) peat and iodine (which is really Islay whiskys), or b) rough as fuck blend like Grants.

There are big differences between say Springbank and Bowmore, or Dalmore and Glenfiddich.

Not only are the different brands quite different, but The Scotch Malt Whisky Society sells bottles from individual casks (usually different casks are married to ensure that all bottles of the same brand of single malt tastes the same), and the differences can be quite stark. (A visit to their tasting rooms is recommended if you're visiting Edinburgh.)

They've also started doing cognacs and bourbons too. The biggest thing that struck me when tasting the bourbons was how much oak comes through - because by law they have to use new casks.

Their gins are excellent too.

If you favour particular distilleries, all of the outturns are number coded so you know where they originated.

[Biffer]

If this is a whisky thread, it's just about Scotch.

[Un Pilier]

If this is a whisky thread, it's just about Scotch.

Except for the posts that aren’t about Scotch. If you are patient I may post my thoughts about Japanese and Welsh whiskies I have sampled.

Alternatively you could broaden the discussion with your own observations.

[Biffer]

If this is a whisky thread, it's just about Scotch.

Except for the posts that aren’t about Scotch. If you are patient I may post my thoughts about Japanese and Welsh whiskies I have sampled.

Alternatively you could broaden the discussion with your own observations.

I mean, if it's spelt Whisky, it's Scotch. Irish etc is spelt Whiskey.

[Kiap]

I mean, if it's spelt Whisky, it's Scotch. Irish etc is spelt Whiskey.

Not cecil airily ...

[Punter15]

If this is a whisky thread, it's just about Scotch.

We’re just taking a moment to extol the virtues of the SMWS and be helpful, park the pedantry Karen.

[Hellraiser]

If this is a whisky thread, it's just about Scotch.

Except for the posts that aren’t about Scotch. If you are patient I may post my thoughts about Japanese and Welsh whiskies I have sampled.

Alternatively you could broaden the discussion with your own observations.

I mean, if it's spelt Whisky, it's Scotch. Irish etc is spelt Whiskey.

If only it was that simple.

[Tichtheid]

The proper spelling is of course Uisge Beatha

There is a bit of whisky lake at the moment, imo that's why we are seeing a lot of no age statement single malts coming on to the market, they are mostly inferior to the whiskies that proclaim an age, and I lament the fashion to bring everything down to 40%, the extra few percent you get from the likes of Talisker and Bunnahabhain is so obvious when you taste it. Highland Park is one brand who have done this with their 12 year old and it has suffered, I have to say. It used to be a favourite, now it's a bit run of the mill. I get the impression that in the drive to increase sales the distilleries are blanding everything down.

If you go for independent bottlers like Gordon and MacPhail or Signatory (particularly their Vintage ones), you won't be disappointed.

The advantage Scotland has is the sheer number of distilleries and the breadth of flavours available, but there is good stuff available from what you'd think were unlikely places - New Zealand, Sweden and of course Japan are just a few places producing good stuff, in the UK you do pay a lot for them, though and Scotch is much better value for a given price point.

Ireland goes without saying, though I never really got on with Irish whiskey, but the last couple of tastings I went to had new brands coming on that were really good.

[Yr Alban]

The proper spelling is of course Uisge Beatha

There is a bit of whisky lake at the moment, imo that's why we are seeing a lot of no age statement single malts coming on to the market, they are mostly inferior to the whiskies that proclaim an age, and I lament the fashion to bring everything down to 40%, the extra few percent you get from the likes of Talisker and Bunnahabhain is so obvious when you taste it. Highland Park is one brand who have done this with their 12 year old and it has suffered, I have to say. It used to be a favourite, now it's a bit run of the mill. I get the impression that in the drive to increase sales the distilleries are blanding everything down.

If you go for independent bottlers like Gordon and MacPhail or Signatory (particularly their Vintage ones), you won't be disappointed.

The advantage Scotland has is the sheer number of distilleries and the breadth of flavours available, but there is good stuff available from what you'd think were unlikely places - New Zealand, Sweden and of course Japan are just a few places producing good stuff, in the UK you do pay a lot for them, though and Scotch is much better value for a given price point.

Ireland goes without saying, though I never really got on with Irish whiskey, but the last couple of tastings I went to had new brands coming on that were really good.

There does seem to be a bit of a glut of no age malts just now. Some are OK, but I totally agree that Highland Park has gone massively downhill. Used to be a favourite, but the Viking Honour one you see most often is just rough and nasty. I was also given a bottle of 10yo Talisker recently, and it’s far nicer than the ‘Skye’ brand.

Over the last 18 months or so I’ve been buying ‘First Editions’ from various branches of the Whisky Shop. I have half a dozen now. Nondescript bottles, but some amazing whisky.

[Hellraiser]

The proper spelling is of course Uisge Beatha

There is a bit of whisky lake at the moment, imo that's why we are seeing a lot of no age statement single malts coming on to the market, they are mostly inferior to the whiskies that proclaim an age, and I lament the fashion to bring everything down to 40%, the extra few percent you get from the likes of Talisker and Bunnahabhain is so obvious when you taste it. Highland Park is one brand who have done this with their 12 year old and it has suffered, I have to say. It used to be a favourite, now it's a bit run of the mill. I get the impression that in the drive to increase sales the distilleries are blanding everything down.

If you go for independent bottlers like Gordon and MacPhail or Signatory (particularly their Vintage ones), you won't be disappointed.

The advantage Scotland has is the sheer number of distilleries and the breadth of flavours available, but there is good stuff available from what you'd think were unlikely places - New Zealand, Sweden and of course Japan are just a few places producing good stuff, in the UK you do pay a lot for them, though and Scotch is much better value for a given price point.

Ireland goes without saying, though I never really got on with Irish whiskey, but the last couple of tastings I went to had new brands coming on that were really good.

40% isn't even about blanding things up for greater appeal. It's to squeeze as many bottles out of a cask as possible. And of course anything above 46% needs to be chill filtered if you don't want hazing at low temperatures because "some" people might otherwise be put off.

[Tichtheid]

40% isn't even about blanding things up for greater appeal. It's to squeeze as many bottles out of a cask as possible.

I think there is a bit of both, the more bottles they can sell the better for them, but the more bland the taste the more they will sell to non-whisky drinkers.

We recently had a Japanese whisky presentation by Dave Broom (great guy), and he was saying that a whisky highball with soda is the very normal way to start your evening out in Tokyo, so you don't need strong flavours if you are going to add lots water and ice

And of course anything above 46% needs to be chill filtered if you don't want hazing at low temperatures because "some" people might otherwise be put off.

Yeah, well, "some" people do insist on adding ice.


Going back to Dave Broom, I was delighted when he agreed with me on his favourite drink - Lagavulin and Coke.

(any of the Big Islays go well with Coke)

[Uncle fester]

Had an excellent on-line tasting at the weekend touring the regions of Scotland.

Auchentoshan - lowland - bit boring to be honest
Deanston 12yr - Highland - 2nd favourite of the night I think
Ben Riach - Speyside - Bought a bottle a few weeks ago on a whim, not my usual style but like it a lot
Glen Scotia 15yr - Cambeltown - Didn't like it but amazed you could really taste the salt from the surrounding sea
Bunnahabhain - Islay - probably my favourite of the night
Tobermory Ledaig - 18yr old - Mull - heavily peated, usually my type of thing
Jura 1984 - 30yrs - celebrating Orwell writing on the island. A huge treat at the end with a bottle costing £800

Easily my favourite Scotch but most of my stock is Irish.

Powers 12 year old is probably the best bang for buck Irish whiskey since Red Breast 12 moved up the price scales. Once upon a time, they used to be the same price.
My favourite these days is Powers Johns Lane. That's a proper beast of a whiskey.
I know people give out about standard Jameson but as a bog-standard blend, it still knocks the socks off most other blends, many of which are undrinkable.

[Tichtheid]

If you want to try something a little different, have a look at Compass Box https://www.compassboxwhisky.com/

They are a blending house who really shook things up when they started 20 years ago, some of their stuff is just plain weird, the orange flavoured whisky is still talked about in our group, but they are good people doing great work.

[Tichtheid]

I've just had a look and the last Irish whiskey we had was JJ Corry: The Gael

I really liked it.

[Slick]

Funnily enough I arrived on Mull yesterday and headed straight for the Tobermory distillery.

Got a Ledaig 18 year old from sherry casks and an 18 year Tobermory special edition aged in Pedro Ximenez casks