NPR

Posted: **Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:03 am**

Looks like Eddie Jones is sizing up talented youngster Hoskins Sotutu for an England jersey, despite the Auckland born youngster having never been to England nor ever played Rugby in England. With nearly 2 million registered players, and a club scene awash with unlimited money, surely the English can produce their own backrowers?

Eddie Jones keen on Blues star Hoskins Sotutu for England - report
12:04, Jul 02 2020

Standout Blues backrower Hoskins Sotutu is reportedly on England coach Eddie Jones' radar after Super Rugby form.
Eddie Jones is reported to be interested in seeing if rising Blues star Hoskins Sotutu wants to play for England.

Sotutu – son of former Blues and Fiji wing Waisake Sotutu – has an English mother, and is technically eligible to choose between three nations at test level.

The 21-year-old has set Super Rugby Aotearoa alight with his displays at No 8, with some observers likening him to a young Zinzan Brooke because of his range of running, kicking, passing and lineout skills.

The Daily Telegraph newspaper has reported that Jones, who coached England to the 2019 Rugby World Cup final, “is thought to be keen to establish if Sotutu holds any interest in playing for England while he remains uncapped’’.

”Whatever is next will come,” he said. “I’ve got my dad’s Fijian heritage and that Kiwi side and my mum is English as well so I can qualify for an English passport.

Sotutu was born in Auckland in 1998 and attended Sacred Heart College.

He represented the New Zealand under-20 team in 2018, the same year he represented Auckland for the first time.

Sotutu made his Blues debut in 2019, and has established himself this season with Blues head coach Leon MacDonald preferring him to Akira Ioane as his starting No 8.

England have had a number of New Zealand-qualified players in recent years, including Brad Shields, Willi Heinz, Hartley, Teimana Harrison and Ben Te’o.

Current Rugby Football Union rules require England players to play their domestic rugby in the country.

Sotutu would have to move to an English club to be eligible for international rugby.

England have capped two players direct from New Zealand in the past - Shields and English-born former Blues utility back Piers Francis, but both were already committed to contracts with English clubs.

Stuff

Posted: **Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:17 am**

England have had a number of New Zealand-qualified players in recent years, including Brad Shields, Willi Heinz, Hartley, Teimana Harrison and Ben Te’o

.

England have had a number of “New Zealand-qualified players”? Technically yes, but from a spiritual guardian sense we know they are New Zealand players who were England-qualified.

Let’s hope Sotutu won’t be sold the false dream by Eddie.

Posted: **Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:23 am**

Jb1981 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:17 am
England have had a number of New Zealand-qualified players in recent years, including Brad Shields, Willi Heinz, Hartley, Teimana Harrison and Ben Te’o
.

England have had a number of “New Zealand-qualified players”? Technically yes, but from a spiritual guardian sense we know they are New Zealand players who were England-qualified.

Let’a hope Sotutu won’t be sold the false dream by Eddie.

Given the plague that England are currently stumbling through, I hope that Hoksins decides that the best thing for his health, and for his career is to stay in NZ. This kid could play 100 tests for the AB's.

Posted: **Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:50 am**

"Carter's Choice"

I like what you did there RC

:D

Posted: **Thu Jul 02, 2020 7:47 am**

such a special talent, no wonder england are after his services! it's been a while since i've seen a number eight with the skills of a back on top of the skills of a forward. i believe he spent alot of his time in the backline when he was younger and it definently shows in his play. i hope he continues performing at this level every week and forces ian foster to take a chance and cap him sooner rather than later.

Posted: **Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:58 am**

"reportedly"
"is thought to be"

Basically, we're speculating to fill some column inches that'll enable an insecure Kiwi to go on a half-hearted troll.

Posted: **Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:25 am**

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:58 am "reportedly"
"is thought to be"

Basically, we're speculating to fill some column inches that'll enable an insecure Kiwi to go on a half-hearted troll.

Stuff

'nuff said. Load of bollocks

Posted: **Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:28 am**

Looking forward to seeing him in the 6N and NTHCSBH. Looks a top player.

Posted: **Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:38 am**

So this story about poaching by England isn't about poaching or England, and is just about the player's agent looking to get him a better deal and putting more pressure on NZ to select him to add to that deal?

Posted: **Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:42 am**

Surely Eddie's learned his lesson by now, after some of the players we've been conned into taking by the kiwis. Brad Shields in particular was a great practical joke.

Posted: **Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:45 am**

Cracking player though and a hell of a prospect. If, as it seems, Eddie hasn’t been trying to poach him, perhaps this will encourage him to start

Posted: **Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:53 am**

Double wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:42 am Surely Eddie's learned his lesson by now, after some of the players we've been conned into taking by the kiwis. Brad Shields in particular was a great practical joke.

I think it’s more a case that Super Rugby isn’t the level it used to be - Eddie putting great stock in player performances in modern-day super rugby has given us Brad Shields and Piers Francis

Still, a young multi-skilled 8 does sound just what we need to round-off our very promising backrow stocks

Posted: **Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:08 am**

An excellent player. Let the lad choose for himself who he wants to represent. I can understand him wanting to play for England. Anyone with sheep shears and a mullett can play for the All Blacks but it's not everyone who can play for England.

Posted: **Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:12 am**

Grumpy wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:08 am An excellent player. Let the lad choose for himself who he wants to represent. I can understand him wanting to play for England. Anyone with sheep shears and a mullett can play for the All Blacks but it's not everyone who can play for England.

But if he stays here he can have sheep shares as well as sheep shears. Can the falling pound match that?

Posted: **Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:30 am**

They send their scouts down to watch youth matches in Wales, offer the best scholarships in English colleges and then poach them to play for England when they've lived there long enough, they are shameless.

Posted: **Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:36 am**

Turkster wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:30 am They send their scouts down to watch youth matches in Wales, offer the best scholarships in English colleges and then poach them to play for England when they've lived there long enough, they are shameless.

Posted: **Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:46 am**

Jim Lahey wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:36 am
Turkster wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:30 am They send their scouts down to watch youth matches in Wales, offer the best scholarships in English colleges and then poach them to play for England when they've lived there long enough, they are shameless.

I don't get it, what's funny?

Posted: **Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:48 am**

Double wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:42 am Surely Eddie's learned his lesson by now, after some of the players we've been conned into taking by the kiwis. Brad Shields in particular was a great practical joke.

I agree, England's track record of poaching Kiwi players is pretty ordinary. Willie Heinz? Thomas Waldrom? Surely Eddie Jones has learned that fast tracking a young player into the England test jersey is a bad idea? Hoskins Sotutu's manager must be loving this, his player is in just his debut season and somehow he's engineered a media bidding war between two of the most powerful national unions in Rugby.

Posted: **Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:42 am**

Turkster wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:46 am
Jim Lahey wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:36 am
Turkster wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:30 am They send their scouts down to watch youth matches in Wales, offer the best scholarships in English colleges and then poach them to play for England when they've lived there long enough, they are shameless.

I don't get it, what's funny?

Er, would you have an example of a Welsh player we've poached in the last 15 - 20 years? Actually Welsh rather than someone who spent five minutes in Cardiff once.

Posted: **Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:55 am**

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:42 am
Turkster wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:46 am
Jim Lahey wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:36 am

I don't get it, what's funny?
Er, would you have an example of a Welsh player we've poached in the last 15 - 20 years? Actually Welsh rather than someone who spent five minutes in Cardiff once.

And a Welsh team without English players

Posted: **Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:35 pm**

Can’t think of any residency poaches from Wales tbh - plenty of traffic in the other direction though!

Posted: **Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:47 pm**

Joost wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:35 pm Can’t think of any residency poaches from Wales tbh - plenty of traffic in the other direction though!

I've seen people try and claim the Vunipolas in the past, but they spent longer in England before reaching the age of 18 than they did in Wales, so I won't have any of that. There's an Independent article I've read that detailed the family move when their Mum started working near Bristol and basically they've been England based since Billy started secondary school aged 11.

Posted: **Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:51 pm**

now now boys, we get it, it's not actually happening, it's all a figment of Welsh imagination, it's all one direction and that's towards Wales, England are totally innocent, why would they need to send scouts down to watch those shite Welshies, blah blah blah, so Eddie Jones contacting Rees-Zammit didn't happen apparently and all these players, who are just part of the actual amount, don't exist. Keep thinking that way why don't you, after all if you don't hear about it it means it's not actually happening.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rug ... s-15384823

Posted: **Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:14 pm**

Turkster wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:51 pm now now boys, we get it, it's not actually happening, it's all a figment of Welsh imagination, it's all one direction and that's towards Wales, England are totally innocent, why would they need to send scouts down to watch those shite Welshies, blah blah blah, so Eddie Jones contacting Rees-Zammit didn't happen apparently and all these players, who are just part of the actual amount, don't exist. Keep thinking that way why don't you, after all if you don't hear about it it means it's not actually happening.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rug ... s-15384823

That doesn't answer the question as to how many Welsh players have been capped by England in the last 20 years it merely shows that schools and clubs tap up talented prospects to play for them. I know some of you with regional systems get a little bit confused by how things work here, but the clubs do not sign foreign players with the intention of getting them into the England set up and their recruitment is not undertaken in consultation with the RFU. Cockerill was most blunt about this when Waldrom 'discovered' his elligibility, the former was absolutely fuming because the club would now get far less use out of a player they'd signed in part due to his being a non EQP and thus available all season.

As for Rees-Zammit

Eddie noticed a promsing player scoring loads of tries and enquired about elligiblity, the player isn't an EQP and there endeth the issue.

Posted: **Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:21 pm**

Turkster wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:51 pm now now boys, we get it, it's not actually happening, it's all a figment of Welsh imagination, it's all one direction and that's towards Wales, England are totally innocent, why would they need to send scouts down to watch those shite Welshies, blah blah blah, so Eddie Jones contacting Rees-Zammit didn't happen apparently and all these players, who are just part of the actual amount, don't exist. Keep thinking that way why don't you, after all if you don't hear about it it means it's not actually happening.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rug ... s-15384823

Name the England players that have been poached from Wales.

Posted: **Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:27 pm**

notfatcat wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:21 pm
Turkster wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:51 pm now now boys, we get it, it's not actually happening, it's all a figment of Welsh imagination, it's all one direction and that's towards Wales, England are totally innocent, why would they need to send scouts down to watch those shite Welshies, blah blah blah, so Eddie Jones contacting Rees-Zammit didn't happen apparently and all these players, who are just part of the actual amount, don't exist. Keep thinking that way why don't you, after all if you don't hear about it it means it's not actually happening.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rug ... s-15384823
Name the England players that have been poached from Wales.

Dewi Morris? Born in Brecon, Owen Joshua Lewsey to give him his full name

Posted: **Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:37 pm**

ASMO wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:27 pm
notfatcat wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:21 pm
Turkster wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:51 pm now now boys, we get it, it's not actually happening, it's all a figment of Welsh imagination, it's all one direction and that's towards Wales, England are totally innocent, why would they need to send scouts down to watch those shite Welshies, blah blah blah, so Eddie Jones contacting Rees-Zammit didn't happen apparently and all these players, who are just part of the actual amount, don't exist. Keep thinking that way why don't you, after all if you don't hear about it it means it's not actually happening.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rug ... s-15384823
Name the England players that have been poached from Wales.
Dewi Morris? Born in Brecon, Owen Joshua Lewsey to give him his full name

Lewsey was born in Bromley and lived in England his whole life as far as I can tell from his Wiki entry. His parents were Welsh, but that's hardly an example of us actively stealing anyone away and is also pretty ancient history at this point as he was first capped 22 years ago.

If the contention is that we do it systematically 2 players who debuted 32 and 22 years ago respectively are hardly supporting evidence.

Posted: **Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:50 pm**

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:47 pm
Joost wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:35 pm Can’t think of any residency poaches from Wales tbh - plenty of traffic in the other direction though!
I've seen people try and claim the Vunipolas in the past, but they spent longer in England before reaching the age of 18 than they did in Wales, so I won't have any of that. There's an Independent article I've read that detailed the family move when their Mum started working near Bristol and basically they've been England based since Billy started secondary school aged 11.

Parents wanting to get their kids into English private schools counts as the England rugby team poaching now?

Even for the Welsh, that’s a bit of a reach!

Posted: **Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:59 pm**

Joost wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:50 pm
sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:47 pm
Joost wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:35 pm Can’t think of any residency poaches from Wales tbh - plenty of traffic in the other direction though!
I've seen people try and claim the Vunipolas in the past, but they spent longer in England before reaching the age of 18 than they did in Wales, so I won't have any of that. There's an Independent article I've read that detailed the family move when their Mum started working near Bristol and basically they've been England based since Billy started secondary school aged 11.
Parents wanting to get their kids into English private schools counts as the England rugby team poaching now?

Even for the Welsh, that’s a bit of a reach!

Fairly sure if the only reason you're in a country is education, then it doesn't count towards eligibility anyway.

Posted: **Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:06 pm**

Carter's Choice wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:48 am
Double wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:42 am Surely Eddie's learned his lesson by now, after some of the players we've been conned into taking by the kiwis. Brad Shields in particular was a great practical joke.
I agree, England's track record of poaching Kiwi players is pretty ordinary. Willie Heinz? Thomas Waldrom? Surely Eddie Jones has learned that fast tracking a young player into the England test jersey is a bad idea? Hoskins Sotutu's manager must be loving this, his player is in just his debut season and somehow he's engineered a media bidding war between two of the most powerful national unions in Rugby.

I hear tell he's talking to the Roosters and the Storm, as well.

Posted: **Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:27 pm**

Raggs wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:59 pm
Fairly sure if the only reason you're in a country is education, then it doesn't count towards eligibility anyway.

It can, it more depends if you're in education independently or as a dependent, if you're a dependent your primary home is more likely to be judge your parents home. But there is some wriggle room in this

Posted: **Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:46 pm**

Is this not yet another example of England rugby swinging low?

NPR

Shameless England desperate to poach another Kiwi youngster

Shameless England desperate to poach another Kiwi youngster

Re: Shameless England desperate to poach another Kiwi youngster

Re: Shameless England desperate to poach another Kiwi youngster

Re: Shameless England desperate to poach another Kiwi youngster

Re: Shameless England desperate to poach another Kiwi youngster

Re: Shameless England desperate to poach another Kiwi youngster

Re: Shameless England desperate to poach another Kiwi youngster

Re: Shameless England desperate to poach another Kiwi youngster

Re: Shameless England desperate to poach another Kiwi youngster

Re: Shameless England desperate to poach another Kiwi youngster

Re: Shameless England desperate to poach another Kiwi youngster

Re: Shameless England desperate to poach another Kiwi youngster

Re: Shameless England desperate to poach another Kiwi youngster

Re: Shameless England desperate to poach another Kiwi youngster

Re: Shameless England desperate to poach another Kiwi youngster

Re: Shameless England desperate to poach another Kiwi youngster

Re: Shameless England desperate to poach another Kiwi youngster

Re: Shameless England desperate to poach another Kiwi youngster

Re: Shameless England desperate to poach another Kiwi youngster

Re: Shameless England desperate to poach another Kiwi youngster

Re: Shameless England desperate to poach another Kiwi youngster

Re: Shameless England desperate to poach another Kiwi youngster

Re: Shameless England desperate to poach another Kiwi youngster

Re: Shameless England desperate to poach another Kiwi youngster

Re: Shameless England desperate to poach another Kiwi youngster

Re: Shameless England desperate to poach another Kiwi youngster

Re: Shameless England desperate to poach another Kiwi youngster

Re: Shameless England desperate to poach another Kiwi youngster

Re: Shameless England desperate to poach another Kiwi youngster

Re: Shameless England desperate to poach another Kiwi youngster

Re: Shameless England desperate to poach another Kiwi youngster

Re: Shameless England desperate to poach another Kiwi youngster