Concussion Legal Action Against WR

Where goats go to escape
Big D
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Tichtheid wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 7:36 am
Big D wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 7:28 am
Tichtheid wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 6:04 am


What should he have learned from the first one?

It was the perfect tackle in today’s parlance- it was a dominant hit, just the way defence coaches are getting their players to make those tackles.
This was his first ever card and he’s, what 32, 33, and played hundreds of professional matches.

Everyone in the game needs to understand that they have to lower, there was no malicious intent, Gilchrist was just doing what he was suppose to do, the problem is that by law of averages he is, everyone is, going to get one wrong eventually when tackling so high
I think the 2nd man in simply has to go low. There are too many variables for the 2nd man going high such as tackled player dropping ever so slightly, nowhere really to wrap the arm due to tackler 1 being in the way etc.

Fagerson was flirting with the tackles from KOs being high too. But as 1st man in he had more margin for error.
Most teams look to double up on the big hit now, it happened in every game in this 6N so far and with every team
It’s how the game is being played, the big dominant hit is the be all and end all way of stopping your opponent’s’ momentum
Second players can still stop momentum tackling 6 inches lower, especially from kick offs where there isn't any real pressure on having to belt them back. That's assuming the tackle is legal, which GG's tackle wasn't at any point.

Other than the players health impact, Scotland can't afford to run the gambit of a second tackler relying partly on luck as to whether they'll end up getting carded.
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Tichtheid
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Big D wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 7:54 am
Tichtheid wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 7:36 am
Big D wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 7:28 am

I think the 2nd man in simply has to go low. There are too many variables for the 2nd man going high such as tackled player dropping ever so slightly, nowhere really to wrap the arm due to tackler 1 being in the way etc.

Fagerson was flirting with the tackles from KOs being high too. But as 1st man in he had more margin for error.
Most teams look to double up on the big hit now, it happened in every game in this 6N so far and with every team
It’s how the game is being played, the big dominant hit is the be all and end all way of stopping your opponent’s’ momentum
Second players can still stop momentum tackling 6 inches lower, especially from kick offs where there isn't any real pressure on having to belt them back. That's assuming the tackle is legal, which GG's tackle wasn't at any point.

Other than the players health impact, Scotland can't afford to run the gambit of a second tackler relying partly on luck as to whether they'll end up getting carded.
I agree that they can tackle six inches, a foot lower and get the same result, but they are not coached to do so
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Paddington Bear
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Fully agree on coaching.

Taking Gilchrist/Fagerson as an example, if Gilchrist makes a standard tackle with Fagerson positioned where he is, Fagerson has a chance to get hands on ball and effect a turnover/win a pen. Instead there's still the culture of the 'smash', which at best wins a minor psychological gain before France kick to touch. It is madness but it keeps happening again and again.

Off topic a little, but reds seem to do less damage to an international than a club game. Yesterday and Ewell's one are good examples of that.
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JM2K6
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And Daly's against Argentina!
sockwithaticket
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Koroibete against France too.
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JM2K6
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CJ Stander v South Africa...
Big D
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Tichtheid wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 8:12 am
Big D wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 7:54 am
Tichtheid wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 7:36 am

Most teams look to double up on the big hit now, it happened in every game in this 6N so far and with every team
It’s how the game is being played, the big dominant hit is the be all and end all way of stopping your opponent’s’ momentum
Second players can still stop momentum tackling 6 inches lower, especially from kick offs where there isn't any real pressure on having to belt them back. That's assuming the tackle is legal, which GG's tackle wasn't at any point.

Other than the players health impact, Scotland can't afford to run the gambit of a second tackler relying partly on luck as to whether they'll end up getting carded.
I agree that they can tackle six inches, a foot lower and get the same result, but they are not coached to do so
Agree on that, the coaches need to take some of the blame.
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Niegs
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Paddington Bear wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 8:53 am
Taking Gilchrist/Fagerson as an example, if Gilchrist makes a standard tackle with Fagerson positioned where he is, Fagerson has a chance to get hands on ball and effect a turnover/win a pen. Instead there's still the culture of the 'smash', which at best wins a minor psychological gain before France kick to touch. It is madness but it keeps happening again and again.
I thought I was watching League with the kickoffs in that. Long kick, charging run, big smash. Unnecessary for both sides.
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Marylandolorian
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Tichtheid wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 7:32 am
Niegs wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 6:32 am Image

That’s the first tackle, isn’t it?

What happened there was that Gilchrist hit Jelonch at the top of the chest, Jelonch’s head swings forward and his cheek contacts the back of Gilchrist’s upper arm, it was the momentum of the tackle that causes that contact

I’d back any calls for the tackle height to be lowered, but as the law stands, I don’t think that particular tackle is foul play
Lol, I beg to differ.
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Tichtheid
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Marylandolorian wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 6:04 pm
Tichtheid wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 7:32 am
Niegs wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 6:32 am Image

That’s the first tackle, isn’t it?

What happened there was that Gilchrist hit Jelonch at the top of the chest, Jelonch’s head swings forward and his cheek contacts the back of Gilchrist’s upper arm, it was the momentum of the tackle that causes that contact

I’d back any calls for the tackle height to be lowered, but as the law stands, I don’t think that particular tackle is foul play
Lol, I beg to differ.
Image


That's not the first tackle to which I referred, ie off the first kick off, that is the second one.

Elsewhere on the bored I said that there could easily have been two cards for the incident in your post
Last edited by Tichtheid on Mon Feb 27, 2023 6:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Slick
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Marylandolorian wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 6:04 pm
Tichtheid wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 7:32 am
Niegs wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 6:32 am Image

That’s the first tackle, isn’t it?

What happened there was that Gilchrist hit Jelonch at the top of the chest, Jelonch’s head swings forward and his cheek contacts the back of Gilchrist’s upper arm, it was the momentum of the tackle that causes that contact

I’d back any calls for the tackle height to be lowered, but as the law stands, I don’t think that particular tackle is foul play
Lol, I beg to differ.
Image
That’s the 2nd one that he rightly got a red for isn’t it?
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Lobby
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Tichtheid wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 6:52 pm
Marylandolorian wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 6:04 pm
Tichtheid wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 7:32 am


That’s the first tackle, isn’t it?

What happened there was that Gilchrist hit Jelonch at the top of the chest, Jelonch’s head swings forward and his cheek contacts the back of Gilchrist’s upper arm, it was the momentum of the tackle that causes that contact

I’d back any calls for the tackle height to be lowered, but as the law stands, I don’t think that particular tackle is foul play
Lol, I beg to differ.
Image


That's not the first tackle to which I referred, ie off the first kick off, that is the second one.

Elsewhere on the bored I said that there could easily have been two cards for the incident in your post
A yellow and red would have been fair, but in cases involving two players committing foul play refs do seem to concentrate on the worst offender and ignore the other player.

In the 2015 RWC Italy’s two props removed an opposing player from a ruck and drove him head first into the ground. Only one was shown a red card even though both were equally to blame (and after the match both were cited and banned for the offence).

Has there ever been a case where two players from the same team have been carded for a single incident?
sockwithaticket
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Sinkers wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 12:42 am IMO the coaches are a big part of the problem. As player behaviour isn’t really changing I’m assuming coaching isn’t changing either and is still emphasising the big hit/ high hit to stop the offload.

So maybe alongside the reds to the players some kind of tiered sanction to the coaches based on # of team reds:

1st. Defence coach attends WR “tackle school”
2nd. Coach Sideline/stadium bans by # of games
3rd. Fines or some other penalty to the union

Although I admit I haven’t really thought this through at all
Les Kiss had an awful whinge during his BT match interview after a cast iron red was awarded against London Irish not so long ago. Basically confirmed what we suspect given the action on the field - coaches do not give a fuck about player safety and are completely unprepared to coach their players to do better. They still fear offloads (high shots) and turnovers (torpedoing into rucks shoulder first) more than a red card and a ban. Which certainly means that we need to look at the sanctions and how they might affect a tam more broadly rather than just taking a player out of commission for a paltry number of weeks.
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Guy Smiley
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sockwithaticket wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 9:34 pm
Sinkers wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 12:42 am IMO the coaches are a big part of the problem. As player behaviour isn’t really changing I’m assuming coaching isn’t changing either and is still emphasising the big hit/ high hit to stop the offload.

So maybe alongside the reds to the players some kind of tiered sanction to the coaches based on # of team reds:

1st. Defence coach attends WR “tackle school”
2nd. Coach Sideline/stadium bans by # of games
3rd. Fines or some other penalty to the union

Although I admit I haven’t really thought this through at all
Les Kiss had an awful whinge during his BT match interview after a cast iron red was awarded against London Irish not so long ago. Basically confirmed what we suspect given the action on the field - coaches do not give a fuck about player safety and are completely unprepared to coach their players to do better. They still fear offloads (high shots) and turnovers (torpedoing into rucks shoulder first) more than a red card and a ban. Which certainly means that we need to look at the sanctions and how they might affect a tam more broadly rather than just taking a player out of commission for a paltry number of weeks.
Possibly a little unfair bracketing all coaches with Kiss. He's an ex Brisbane league figure, I believe.... and there's certainly a resistant mindset from those with a strong league type heavy defense mindset. Momentum is a thing though and while there are going to be plenty of individuals like him making loud noises sanctions are going to bite. I do think there's an argument to speed things up though and WR could tidy their act up around that, sending someone off to 'tackle school' is a bit too 'placate the mob' as opposed to making meaningful change.
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JM2K6
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Lobby wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 8:16 pm
Tichtheid wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 6:52 pm
Marylandolorian wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 6:04 pm
Lol, I beg to differ.
Image


That's not the first tackle to which I referred, ie off the first kick off, that is the second one.

Elsewhere on the bored I said that there could easily have been two cards for the incident in your post
A yellow and red would have been fair, but in cases involving two players committing foul play refs do seem to concentrate on the worst offender and ignore the other player.

In the 2015 RWC Italy’s two props removed an opposing player from a ruck and drove him head first into the ground. Only one was shown a red card even though both were equally to blame (and after the match both were cited and banned for the offence).

Has there ever been a case where two players from the same team have been carded for a single incident?
Yep, it's happened a few times.
sockwithaticket
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Guy Smiley wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 10:04 pm
sockwithaticket wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 9:34 pm
Sinkers wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 12:42 am IMO the coaches are a big part of the problem. As player behaviour isn’t really changing I’m assuming coaching isn’t changing either and is still emphasising the big hit/ high hit to stop the offload.

So maybe alongside the reds to the players some kind of tiered sanction to the coaches based on # of team reds:

1st. Defence coach attends WR “tackle school”
2nd. Coach Sideline/stadium bans by # of games
3rd. Fines or some other penalty to the union

Although I admit I haven’t really thought this through at all
Les Kiss had an awful whinge during his BT match interview after a cast iron red was awarded against London Irish not so long ago. Basically confirmed what we suspect given the action on the field - coaches do not give a fuck about player safety and are completely unprepared to coach their players to do better. They still fear offloads (high shots) and turnovers (torpedoing into rucks shoulder first) more than a red card and a ban. Which certainly means that we need to look at the sanctions and how they might affect a tam more broadly rather than just taking a player out of commission for a paltry number of weeks.
Possibly a little unfair bracketing all coaches with Kiss. He's an ex Brisbane league figure, I believe.... and there's certainly a resistant mindset from those with a strong league type heavy defense mindset. Momentum is a thing though and while there are going to be plenty of individuals like him making loud noises sanctions are going to bite. I do think there's an argument to speed things up though and WR could tidy their act up around that, sending someone off to 'tackle school' is a bit too 'placate the mob' as opposed to making meaningful change.
He's hardly the only coach to have thrown a pity party, though he was the most forthright and the only one to do it live in the middle of a game, so it's a particularly striking example.

Equally, if coaches did care, we would be seeing far fewer incidents than we are. There was in the not too dim and distant past a spate of cards for high ball challenges and tip tackles, they are exceedingly rare now because coaches have instructed players in ways that will avoid them. They are clearly still coaching players to go higher into contact than need be if trying to safeguard tackled players.
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Marylandolorian
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Lobby wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 8:16 pm
Tichtheid wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 6:52 pm
Marylandolorian wrote: Mon Feb 27, 2023 6:04 pm
Lol, I beg to differ.
Image


That's not the first tackle to which I referred, ie off the first kick off, that is the second one.

Elsewhere on the bored I said that there could easily have been two cards for the incident in your post
A yellow and red would have been fair, but in cases involving two players committing foul play refs do seem to concentrate on the worst offender and ignore the other player.

In the 2015 RWC Italy’s two props removed an opposing player from a ruck and drove him head first into the ground. Only one was shown a red card even though both were equally to blame (and after the match both were cited and banned for the offence).

Has there ever been a case where two players from the same team have been carded for a single incident?
U20 2-3 years ago, France / England (?) . 2 French got a red for tackling, lifting and dropping a player on his head.
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Uncle fester
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Devastating read about a legendary player.

https://archive.ph/sOeGU
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378 in the legal case now, Dafydd James now as well. Not that fame or otherwise should come into it.
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Paddington Bear
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Maybe it is just the ones making headlines, but Welsh players seem grossly overrepresented in this. An issue with training methods?
Old men forget: yet all shall be forgot, But he'll remember with advantages, What feats he did that day
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SaintK
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Uncle fester wrote: Tue Apr 04, 2023 9:01 am Devastating read about a legendary player.

https://archive.ph/sOeGU
Read it on Sunday. Very sad!!!
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Paddington Bear wrote: Tue Apr 04, 2023 9:16 am Maybe it is just the ones making headlines, but Welsh players seem grossly overrepresented in this. An issue with training methods?
I’ll reserve judgment until if and when the full list comes out.
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Hal Jordan
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EnergiseR2 wrote: Tue Apr 04, 2023 9:25 am You'd wonder does the hard drinking come into it as well. What's the figures for lads who.played rugby with dementia vs other people. Football seems plagued with it as well and of course they drank like cunts as well until recently
Repeatedly headbutting waterlogged leather case balls was not a great way to prevent head trauma. But I doubt the smelling salts/drink through it culture helped either sport.
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So it's Welsh rugbys fault, or it's the drinking cultures fault ...and nothing to do to with the human brain impacting the inside of the skull, so if we can just point over there, away from impacts (in the case if Alix Popham, he had 70 thousand micro concussions) ...then Rugby is perfectly healthy.

"Off you go little ones. Remember put your head on the right side when tackling, that way you won't get kneed, or kicked violently in the head, and won't end up like Doddie Weir, Ryan Jones..basically all your rugby heroes".

"O.k Daddy, i'll try".

You lot are going to have the shock of your f'king lives when all this bollocks gets laughed out of court, and the rugby football unions have to spend the next 16 years writing massive cheques, on your behalf.
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Guy Smiley
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SaintK wrote: Tue Apr 04, 2023 9:30 am
Uncle fester wrote: Tue Apr 04, 2023 9:01 am Devastating read about a legendary player.

https://archive.ph/sOeGU
Read it on Sunday. Very sad!!!
I waited a good old while before I sat down with that. It's a brutal story. I saw something similar with my own father, who suffered stroke induced dementia. That article captures the nature of the disease very well... it's a horrible slow grind into nothing.
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Niegs
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Something I can't unsee/unhear any more are the comments from twats online, pundits on air, even people involved making statements who say: "Player safety is paramount, but..." and then go on to rant about the game going 'soft' because of attempts to lessen dangerous play or excusing recklessness as 'rugby incidents' or 'it's unavoidable' or people in charge saying 'we're doing our best' but not really.
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SaintK
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Guy Smiley wrote: Mon Apr 10, 2023 8:55 pm
SaintK wrote: Tue Apr 04, 2023 9:30 am
Uncle fester wrote: Tue Apr 04, 2023 9:01 am Devastating read about a legendary player.

https://archive.ph/sOeGU
Read it on Sunday. Very sad!!!
I waited a good old while before I sat down with that. It's a brutal story. I saw something similar with my own father, who suffered stroke induced dementia. That article captures the nature of the disease very well... it's a horrible slow grind into nothing.
I'm sorry to hear that. It must be dreadful to have a personal experience of something so awful.
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Guy Smiley
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SaintK wrote: Tue Apr 11, 2023 7:33 am
Guy Smiley wrote: Mon Apr 10, 2023 8:55 pm
SaintK wrote: Tue Apr 04, 2023 9:30 am
Read it on Sunday. Very sad!!!
I waited a good old while before I sat down with that. It's a brutal story. I saw something similar with my own father, who suffered stroke induced dementia. That article captures the nature of the disease very well... it's a horrible slow grind into nothing.
I'm sorry to hear that. It must be dreadful to have a personal experience of something so awful.
It is… and it feeds my despair at the stories coming out of rugby and other sports. If any of us end up going into a decline like this we will have to get our affairs in order early. There’s no coming back and no second chances.

I spoke at his funeral… described his going as being like watching him rowing out from shore into the mists. He couldn’t find his way back and we kept losing sight of him.
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SaintK
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Very sad tale of "Stormin" Norm Hadley. (Quite a long read)
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2023/ ... n-hadley
Slick
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Thought some of this interview with Frank Hadden, ex Scotland coach and all round good egg, was quite interesting around the disciplinary process and head knocks etc:
The last time France hosted the Rugby World Cup, Frank Hadden was Scotland’s head coach. The now 68-year-old will be back there in September and October, this time as one of the judicial panel members who rule on punishments for red cards and citings.

World Rugby, the game’s global governing body, has made concerted efforts to shift the balance of power in these set-ups away from the lawyers and towards individuals with significant frontline elite rugby experience.

As such, Hadden will be joined at the tournament by figures such as Stefan Terblanche, the former South Africa utility back, Olly Kohn, the long-serving Harlequins and Wales lock, Becky Essex, who won the 2014 World Cup with England, and Donal Courtney, the respected Irish former referee.

“The hearings that take place can involve up to 20 people, if there are translators plus multiple lawyers, coaches and managers,” Hadden said. “We are an independent panel appointed by World Rugby to listen to both sides of the argument and the ex-pros, known as wingmen to the chair, do the bulk of the interrogation. Depending on the outcome, upholding rather than rescinding the red card, we then start the sanctioning process. Our role is to be the ‘spirit of rugby’.”

Hadden, who led Scotland between 2005 and 2009, first got involved in the disciplinary sphere when he was working with the Scottish Rugby Union to introduce a new conference structure for the schools and youth game — a particular passion point for a man who came to coaching prominence at Merchiston Castle before moving into the professional ranks with Edinburgh.

“While working on the conferences, I heard from within Murrayfield that World Rugby was looking for ex-professional coaches, players and referees to join the judiciary panels in both hemispheres. The reason being that teams wanted their players interrogated by people who had a better understanding of the professional game.

“I hadn’t coached at under-13, under-14 for such a long time, and here I was trying to organise a new structure. I went out and did some coaching at under-13 and under-14 to find out how dangerous the game was. There is a concern out there in the public, particularly among parents who haven’t been involved in the game, only watch the pro game and think it’s too dangerous for wee Jonny.

“I found out pretty quickly that at that level, you’ve more chance of being injured in the playground than in rugby. There is no doubt, however, that schools rugby is so much more physical now than it was when I was coaching.


“I felt an obligation to get into this to try to help make the game as safe as possible. Without being overly soft, to really try to change behaviour. That’s the purpose of the high-tackle framework: to try to change behaviour. It’s succeeded already with the dump tackle, which you just don’t see: I’ve done one of them in the last four years.


“Some of the cases we deal with are pretty straightforward. Back in the day, there was a lot of kicking, headbutting, punching, that sort of stuff. Since this new era started, the high-tackle framework into the head contact process, I haven’t had any what I would call intentional stuff.

“You’ve got ‘accident’ at one end [of the scale], ‘intentional’ at the other with ‘reckless’ in the middle. You’ll still hear old school guys saying things like, ‘you’re getting punished for entering the ruck at speed, but surely that’s what you want to do?’

“Well, it used to be. But now you have to weigh up what’s in front of you and minimise your recklessness. You still want to hit the guy hard, but make sure there is a clear path of entry, then you bear the consequence of what you do.”

Hadden — whose disciplinary work is unpaid — firmly believes that the message is landing with professional players about their responsibility to look after themselves and each other, especially in relation to head impacts. He does, however, acknowledge that sanctioning requires “constant review” to iron out perceived inconsistencies.


“I was at a wedding with a lot of pro players from England. Sitting round the table with a lot of them, asking what they thought [of how the disciplinary process work]. They thought it was the best thing — they were saying things like, ‘I don’t want to have concussion, or have to worry about things in later life. I want to survive this game and keep going for as long as I possibly can’.

“With World Cups, there is a much bigger onus on everyone because if a ban is issued, you are effectively sending a player home. That also means that players are far more likely to challenge decisions.

“If you fail with a challenge, you get an extra week chucked on. You’ll then see something that was quite close to being accidental being challenged and they end up with four weeks, while a guy who doesn’t challenge who has hurt someone quite seriously only gets three weeks. In the World Cup, everyone wants to challenge because whether it’s three or four weeks doesn’t make a difference, they’re gone. The hearings will take longer as a result.

“Most of the work is done in what we call the calibrations. Joël Jutge [World Rugby’s head of match officials] sets a multiple choice exam. We watch a series of clips and are asked to decide [whether it should be] red, yellow, penalty kick or play on. We watch each clip multiple times from all sorts of angles putting years of experience to the test then make our decision. We never find out who came top of the class but I’m sure most of us keep score. Invariably there are disagreements, especially at conferences but it’s not and never will be an exact science.”
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Jim Lahey
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The above article is crucial to the survival of the sport. Pro players need to buy in and change their attitudes and behaviours, so that the next generation of players follow suit.

On the Hoo-Hah thread, I highlighted Brian Lima's brutal (and legal) hit on Hougaard. I watched that on TV as a very impressionable 13 year old, and thought Lima was a legend for hitting so hard, and couldn't wait to line up some poor bastard like he did in my next game.

Big man and ball shots, where the player with the ball is hit at chest height, look great, have the ability to change the momentum of the game, and usually the tackler gets a round of pats on the back from teammates and spectators. But there is a hell of a lot of danger involved for both parties.

Get the tackle height down to belly-button level, and send the poor kunt with the ball backwards 5 yards onto his arse instead of stopping him dead with a higher tackle. Yes the player might be able to get an offload away, but as a spectator that makes the game more fun to watch, and the tackler still looks like a hero to his teammates. Win win imo.

As for rucking, well I don't have a fucking clue how you sort that mess out :lol: side rolls seem like a great idea until the jacklers start popping ankles and knees, and then you have a new problem.
Ian Madigan for Ireland.
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Niegs
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Jim Lahey wrote: Tue Jun 27, 2023 2:08 pm As for rucking, well I don't have a fucking clue how you sort that mess out :lol: side rolls seem like a great idea until the jacklers start popping ankles and knees, and then you have a new problem.
Shoulders above hips, I reckon. No one can bind onto the body of the player on the ground.

It seems to be accepted at all levels now that an attacking support player can not just grab onto the tackled player, but rest forearms on that person, drop their body to a height inches from the ground. A contest is impossible at that point, or futile at best.

It'd also make it less likely that such a player (includes defenders going for a jackal) takes a shoulder to the head from an opponent as we've seen a fair bit the last couple of years.
Line6 HXFX
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Rugby just needs to die. Sorry but there it is. Watched it from the age of 4, couldn't wait to play it..played mini rugby from the age of under 9 (until I was 11 when I broke my arm playing it in a carpark, having smashed it to bits, on a kerb, yay rugby).

People will say we are too woke, too soft, but I broke my arm playing the game in the carpark on concrete, as a child..like a tough careless, reckless mental, rugby loving obsessive bastard.. So fuck people.
As an Air Cadet, we played against other squadrons and against 17/18 year olds (litterally men who were in the RAF an home for the weekend, and visiting their old Air Cadet Squadrons).. when I was 13 (as FlyHalf, Player Coach..as I played mini ruby and knew a bit about it) and had the shit kicked out of me for my troubles, to the extent I never wanted to play it again.

Sure the reason my knees are bad is because I played and trained in rugby on frozen pitches as a child.


We tried it, it's harmful, it teaches us nothing, no good comes of it, it definately isn't worth Senile Dementia.Motor Neurons, CTE or the culture of alcoholism that follows it.
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Sandstorm
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Line6 HXFX wrote: Thu Jul 06, 2023 11:53 am Rugby just needs to die. Sorry but there it is. Watched it from the age of 4, couldn't wait to play it..played mini rugby from the age of under 9 (until I was 11 when I broke my arm playing it in a carpark, having smashed it to bits, on a kerb, yay rugby).

People will say we are too woke, too soft, but I broke my arm playing the game in the carpark on concrete, as a child..like a tough careless, reckless mental, rugby loving obsessive bastard.. So fuck people.
As an Air Cadet, we played against other squadrons and against 17/18 year olds (litterally men who were in the RAF an home for the weekend, and visiting their old Air Cadet Squadrons).. when I was 13 (as FlyHalf, Player Coach..as I played mini ruby and knew a bit about it) and had the shit kicked out of me for my troubles, to the extent I never wanted to play it again.

Sure the reason my knees are bad is because I played and trained in rugby on frozen pitches as a child.


We tried it, it's harmful, it teaches us nothing, no good comes of it, it definately isn't worth Senile Dementia.Motor Neurons, CTE or the culture of alcoholism that follows it.
STFU
Masterji
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Rugby is dangerous, people know its dangerous and then people will act surprised when some report or other officially states its dangerous. It's the same with boxing and MMA.
GogLais
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Masterji wrote: Fri Jul 07, 2023 5:52 pm Rugby is dangerous, people know its dangerous and then people will act surprised when some report or other officially states its dangerous. It's the same with boxing and MMA.
Yes but it changes when it becomes paid employment. Hard to give up when you’re say in your late 20s, a mortgage and family and nothing else will pay you as well.
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JM2K6
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Probably not a good sign for rugby - a team sport about scoring points via kicking a ball through some posts and/or putting the ball down over a line - that it's being compared with combat sports where knocking your opponent unconcscious is a winning condition
GogLais
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JM2K6 wrote: Mon Jul 10, 2023 8:22 am Probably not a good sign for rugby - a team sport about scoring points via kicking a ball through some posts and/or putting the ball down over a line - that it's being compared with combat sports where knocking your opponent unconcscious is a winning condition
Indeed. And I imagine twenty or thirty years ago players had to accept the risk of broken bones and damaged joints but not dementia in their thirties.
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JM2K6
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GogLais wrote: Mon Jul 10, 2023 8:34 am
JM2K6 wrote: Mon Jul 10, 2023 8:22 am Probably not a good sign for rugby - a team sport about scoring points via kicking a ball through some posts and/or putting the ball down over a line - that it's being compared with combat sports where knocking your opponent unconcscious is a winning condition
Indeed. And I imagine twenty or thirty years ago players had to accept the risk of broken bones and damaged joints but not dementia in their thirties.
Right. There's a big leap from "accidents can happen and here's the obvious outcomes" to "accidents can happen but the consequences of them happening are far more impactful than you know" let alone "even if accidents don't happen there's a big risk of long-term consequences beyond the physical wear and tear"
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