NPR

Biffer wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 6:19 am Petition asking the Chiefs to change their imagery. I think this is pretty well worded, not actually looking for a name change but wanting to get rid of the cultural appropriation. There’s a Celtic history to exeter so refocusing to Celtic chiefs and associated imagery, getting rid of the chop and the chant etc. is what’s needed

http://chng.it/tHQmd8qDZs

ASMO wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:49 pm

Biffer wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 6:19 am Petition asking the Chiefs to change their imagery. I think this is pretty well worded, not actually looking for a name change but wanting to get rid of the cultural appropriation. There’s a Celtic history to exeter so refocusing to Celtic chiefs and associated imagery, getting rid of the chop and the chant etc. is what’s needed

http://chng.it/tHQmd8qDZs

The chant annoys the hell out of me, it's more of a drone than a chant.

Openside wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:48 pm Sooo not necessary.

I trust Village people have been disbanded.

Hugo wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:01 pm I'm not in the least bit opposed to this, but how are the Redskins, Braves, Indians etc. able to get away with their names, logo's and such?

In terms of visibility and brand recognition Exeter are small beer.

sockwithaticket wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:06 pm

Hugo wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:01 pm I'm not in the least bit opposed to this, but how are the Redskins, Braves, Indians etc. able to get away with their names, logo's and such?

In terms of visibility and brand recognition Exeter are small beer.

I was under the impression that there has long been pressure on such teams to alter those elements, but they have yet to be swayed by any arguments and aren't feeling any fiscal pressure which would force them to act.

sockwithaticket wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:06 pm

Hugo wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:01 pm I'm not in the least bit opposed to this, but how are the Redskins, Braves, Indians etc. able to get away with their names, logo's and such?

In terms of visibility and brand recognition Exeter are small beer.

I was under the impression that there has long been pressure on such teams to alter those elements, but they have yet to be swayed by any arguments and aren't feeling any fiscal pressure which would force them to act.

Gallagher Premiership front-runners Exeter Chiefs will review the use of the club's Native American imagery at the club's next board meeting at the end of July.

The club's use of their 'Big Chief' mascot, 'Tomahawk Chop' chant and all First Nation or Native American imagery, including headdresses, has faced renewed scrutiny in recent weeks, with a petition started by a group of Exeter supporters for the club to change their brand gaining 2,800 signatures.

"I do believe that Exeter Chiefs are a great club who do so many great things both on the pitch and off it," Ben, a season ticket holder for seven years, recently told Telegraph Sport.

"During the last few years, I have also learnt about the offence that [the branding] causes, having your culture, your identity appropriated by sports teams. The headdress or warbonnet is revered in many cultures, and we use it as a way to play fancy dress."

NFL franchise Washington announced on Monday that the team would drop the 'Redskins' name and logo, the first time an NFL franchise has changed their name without moving cities since 1999, after facing increased pressure from sponsors and Native American groups in the United States regarding their use of the racist name.

"We commend the Washington NFL team for eliminating a brand that disrespected, demeaned, and stereotyped all Native people, and we call on all other sports teams and corporate brands to retire all caricatures of Native Americans that they use as their mascots," read a statement from the National Congress of American Indians.

A counter petition started by another group of Exeter supporters, claiming that the use of Native American imagery is to "honour and respect their cultural beliefs", has so far amassed 2,000 signatures.

Exeter adopted the Chiefs moniker in 1999 and earned promotion to the Premiership for the first time 10 years ago, before winning the title in 2017.

Biffer wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 6:49 pm

Openside wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:48 pm Sooo not necessary.

I trust Village people have been disbanded.

The Village People dropped the Native American character this year.

It is necessary. Its cultural appropriation, and Native American groups have criticised it. The Premiership has regular shows on US TV and its been discussed there as well.

Yeeb wrote: Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:14 pm

Biffer wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 6:49 pm

Openside wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:48 pm Sooo not necessary.

I trust Village people have been disbanded.

The Village People dropped the Native American character this year.

It is necessary. Its cultural appropriation, and Native American groups have criticised it. The Premiership has regular shows on US TV and its been discussed there as well.

What about when non white people culturally appropriate white culture & history like playing golf , tennis, rock music, Bridge etc ? Wearing suits and sporting short back & sides ? Driving cars ? Living in semi detached suburbia ?

Yeeb wrote: Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:14 pm

Biffer wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 6:49 pm

Openside wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:48 pm Sooo not necessary.

I trust Village people have been disbanded.

The Village People dropped the Native American character this year.

It is necessary. Its cultural appropriation, and Native American groups have criticised it. The Premiership has regular shows on US TV and its been discussed there as well.

What about when non white people culturally appropriate white culture & history like playing golf , tennis, rock music, Bridge etc ? Wearing suits and sporting short back & sides ? Driving cars ? Living in semi detached suburbia ?

.OverThere wrote: Tue Jul 14, 2020 10:29 pm I'm always a bit wary of the concept of cultural appropriation as something that is to be frowned upon.
It has been part of the make up of human society since the very beginning. Without continuous cultural appropriation our civilisation would not exist.
Without appropriation a culture will die.

mat the expat wrote: Wed Jul 15, 2020 12:36 am

Yeeb wrote: Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:14 pm

Biffer wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 6:49 pm

The Village People dropped the Native American character this year.

It is necessary. Its cultural appropriation, and Native American groups have criticised it. The Premiership has regular shows on US TV and its been discussed there as well.

What about when non white people culturally appropriate white culture & history like playing golf , tennis, rock music, Bridge etc ? Wearing suits and sporting short back & sides ? Driving cars ? Living in semi detached suburbia ?

Edgy and Fuckwit are closely related....

FujiKiwi wrote: Wed Jul 15, 2020 3:15 am

.OverThere wrote: Tue Jul 14, 2020 10:29 pm I'm always a bit wary of the concept of cultural appropriation as something that is to be frowned upon.
It has been part of the make up of human society since the very beginning. Without continuous cultural appropriation our civilisation would not exist.
Without appropriation a culture will die.

A staggeringly stupid post, in context.

There's a difference between sharing ideas around, and mocking and ridiculing cultures that have suffered from genocide.

Tilly Orifice wrote: Wed Jul 15, 2020 3:30 am

mat the expat wrote: Wed Jul 15, 2020 12:36 am

Yeeb wrote: Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:14 pm

What about when non white people culturally appropriate white culture & history like playing golf , tennis, rock music, Bridge etc ? Wearing suits and sporting short back & sides ? Driving cars ? Living in semi detached suburbia ?

Edgy and Fuckwit are closely related....

That's not cultural appropriation anyway, it's cultural imperialism. We're at fault there too.

FujiKiwi wrote: Wed Jul 15, 2020 3:15 am
There's a difference between sharing ideas around, and mocking and ridiculing cultures that have suffered from genocide.

assfly wrote: Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:01 am

FujiKiwi wrote: Wed Jul 15, 2020 3:15 am
There's a difference between sharing ideas around, and mocking and ridiculing cultures that have suffered from genocide.

Who gets to decide the difference?

FujiKiwi wrote: Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:05 am
The difference is objectively there. You see it. I see it. If you can't see the difference between sharing ideas and ridiculing someone's culture, you should obviously sit out the conversation. I don't actually believe you're that dumb.

JM2K6 wrote: Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:09 am There's been a good few alternative designs thought up for a "Chiefs" logo that refers to the Dumnonii tribes that used to be in the area. The designs looked neat, just amateur stuff but looked a lot better than the native American caricature.

FujiKiwi wrote: Wed Jul 15, 2020 7:43 am If you can't see the difference between getting an Elvis-style haircut and mimicking a crass. offensive stereotype at a sports game, you suffer from a colossal lack of discernment.

FujiKiwi wrote: Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:13 am

JM2K6 wrote: Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:09 am There's been a good few alternative designs thought up for a "Chiefs" logo that refers to the Dumnonii tribes that used to be in the area. The designs looked neat, just amateur stuff but looked a lot better than the native American caricature.

Watch out for the edgy posters rocking up to the thread to say how offensive that would be to the Dumnonii who were oppressed by the Romans or Iceni or whatever. Drawing a false equivalence between that and the tribes who were brutalized a few generations ago and are still suffering injustice today.

assfly wrote: Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:12 am

FujiKiwi wrote: Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:05 am
The difference is objectively there. You see it. I see it. If you can't see the difference between sharing ideas and ridiculing someone's culture, you should obviously sit out the conversation. I don't actually believe you're that dumb.

What a ridiculous answer to a genuine question.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but I'd like to know who should decide the difference. You can't just tell me that I see it.

JM2K6 wrote: Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:16 am https://www.devonlive.com/news/devon-ne ... al-1139539

Comments from a Native American who lives in Exeter and is a former cultural ambassador to a Sioux tribe, so knows what she's talking about. It should clear up some of the questions.

bessantj wrote: Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:26 am Bit of an aside but when I first saw Exeter's mascot I thought the mouth was a mustache so he looked a bit like Blakey from On The Buses.