Official Lions selection, moaning and bitching thread

[Tichtheid]

Whilst waiting to see how some injuries are mending and how some players show up, I was thinking about the Lions pack. Furlong seems to be getting back to his best, if he maintains that he will surely be the test starter. I'm not sure on hooker, it might be my one Scottish eye can only see Sutherland as the looseheid starter, but that obviously depends on his shoulder injury.

Itoje and AWJ? Itoje and Ryan? I think it will pan out one of those two ways for the boilerhouse.

Faletau was another who looked to be getting back to his best, BillyV is a shadow of the player he was. Watson or Curry for the 7 jersey is the best headache a coach can have. There might be a case for starting both of them in a warm up to see how they go, but I like a good lineout option as one of the flankers - does Curry provide that? Genuine question, as I don't recall him as a jumper, that could see Old Moany or Hendo come in for the 6 shirt. Tipuric will be involved in the tour, whether he makes the test side is another question. Hill might be another option.

[Line6 HXFX]

Now Wales are facing the big three in the autumn, I really don't want any of Wales' players selected.

Taking Welsh players, telling them "this is the pinnacle of your careers" and having them all putting off surgeries and throwing themselves at the Springboks like their lives and careers depend on it, putting them through a meat grinder that will obliterate the Welsh teams form and fitness for the next 18 months, and humiliate the nation whilst putting the coaching team in jeopardy and disrupting Wales world cup preparations isn't exactly worth it.

I would rather the Sky Sports Lions were humiliated than us tbh.

[JM2K6]

Whilst waiting to see how some injuries are mending and how some players show up, I was thinking about the Lions pack. Furlong seems to be getting back to his best, if he maintains that he will surely be the test starter. I'm not sure on hooker, it might be my one Scottish eye can only see Sutherland as the looseheid starter, but that obviously depends on his shoulder injury.

Itoje and AWJ? Itoje and Ryan? I think it will pan out one of those two ways for the boilerhouse.

Faletau was another who looked to be getting back to his best, BillyV is a shadow of the player he was. Watson or Curry for the 7 jersey is the best headache a coach can have. There might be a case for starting both of them in a warm up to see how they go, but I like a good lineout option as one of the flankers - does Curry provide that? Genuine question, as I don't recall him as a jumper, that could see Old Moany or Hendo come in for the 6 shirt. Tipuric will be involved in the tour, whether he makes the test side is another question. Hill might be another option.

Curry takes lineouts, yeah. I think there's a reasonable chance he'll be at 6.

[Tichtheid]

Back row is very competitive, as it should be, they are generally the best players on the park.

The Lions took nine backrowers to New Zealand, this year could see a pool of Curry, Underhill, Tipuric, Faletau, Watson, Ritchie, O'Mahony, Stander, van der Flier

Skinner, Henderson and perhaps Lawes (fitness?) provide a hybrid blindside/lock option.

[clydecloggie]

Back row is very competitive, as it should be, they are generally the best players on the park.

The Lions took nine backrowers to New Zealand, this year could see a pool of Curry, Underhill, Tipuric, Faletau, Watson, Ritchie, O'Mahony, Stander, van der Flier

Skinner, Henderson and perhaps Lawes (fitness?) provide a hybrid blindside/lock option.

Smaller squad, though. Only 36 going instead of 40+. I'd think 7 back rows + Henderson going as one of 5 locks.

Ritchie, Tipuric, Navidi, Watson, Curry, Faletau, Stander.

[JM2K6]

I'd be very surprised if Underhill wasn't in there, given him not being available was one of the reasons England's performances dipped, and his ridiculous showings at the world cup, etc.

[sorCrer]

Back row is very competitive, as it should be, they are generally the best players on the park.

The Lions took nine backrowers to New Zealand, this year could see a pool of Curry, Underhill, Tipuric, Faletau, Watson, Ritchie, O'Mahony, Stander, van der Flier

Skinner, Henderson and perhaps Lawes (fitness?) provide a hybrid blindside/lock option.

Most likely up against Kolisi, Vermeulen and van Staden/PSDT. Will be a great clash that.

[Biffer]

Sutherland doesn’t require surgery so should hopefully be available.

[SaintK]

McGeechan and Telfer's starting Lions XV
Hard to argue against any of the selections and I'd be happy to see that team start the first test. Though I'm sure others may not

[Openside]

McGeechan and Telfer's starting Lions XV
Hard to argue against any of the selections and I'd be happy to see that team start the first test. Though I'm sure others may not

Good team but I reckon Rees-Zammet? is the best NH winger atm.

[Jock42]

English based players to be released to the squad prior to the Japan game at 45k a player, less those in the final.

[Margin__Walker]

So North and Launchbury both out of the selection conversation with long term injuries.

[SaintK]

McGeechan and Telfer's starting Lions XV
Hard to argue against any of the selections and I'd be happy to see that team start the first test. Though I'm sure others may not

Well, North won't be at 13
Just announced he wont be touring as he tore his ACL at the weekend. Shame as he's been playing well.

[dpedin]

McGeechan and Telfer's starting Lions XV
Hard to argue against any of the selections and I'd be happy to see that team start the first test. Though I'm sure others may not

Well, North won't be at 13
Just announced he wont be touring as he tore his ACL at the weekend. Shame as he's been playing well.

Harris in for North. North was always a dodgy call given his defence can be a bit ropey at times at 13. With the rest of the backs pick you need a strong defensive player in there.

LVZ or Watson is a close call, the latter on basis of experience?

Itoji is a good player but too risky against the SAs - he would be giving about 12 points a game due to stupid penalties conceded which is too many points to concede at that level. They will wind him up and he will take the bait. The SAs don't miss penalties in SA. Ryan or Gray instead.

I would also play Watson for Curry if you play Beirne at 6, you don't need Curry for line out duties, Beirne will do that and Watson is better on the ground etc. Watson outplayed him when they played against each other in 6Ns and is the marginally better 7. Could do Beirne in 2nd row and Curry at 6?

[JM2K6]

Itoje's played SA many times and his discipline's never been an issue then. I agree it was lousy in the 6N. Different coaches can yield different results, though. J Gray's been excellent. Ryan has been living off his early reputation for some time.

[SaintK]

Itoje's played SA many times and his discipline's never been an issue then. I agree it was lousy in the 6N. Different coaches can yield different results, though. J Gray's been excellent. Ryan has been living off his early reputation for some time.

Itoje is still the stand out lock in the NH despite as you say his lousy discipline in the 6N. Gatland knows him from the last tour and will trust him. Agreed about Gray over Ryan though would have had a fit Launchbury over both of them.

[GogLais]

McGeechan and Telfer's starting Lions XV
Hard to argue against any of the selections and I'd be happy to see that team start the first test. Though I'm sure others may not

Well, North won't be at 13
Just announced he wont be touring as he tore his ACL at the weekend. Shame as he's been playing well.

Didn’t look anything at the time, just a sidestep.

[Biffer]

Itoje's played SA many times and his discipline's never been an issue then. I agree it was lousy in the 6N. Different coaches can yield different results, though. J Gray's been excellent. Ryan has been living off his early reputation for some time.

Itoje is still the stand out lock in the NH despite as you say his lousy discipline in the 6N. Gatland knows him from the last tour and will trust him. Agreed about Gray over Ryan though would have had a fit Launchbury over both of them.

I 'm convinced the lousy discipline is from lack of match sharpness, not coaching. He's not going to be reffed as sharply in the championship. Can he get international match sharp for a Lions test in a couple of games on tour?

Edit - a lot of sharp in that post.

[Biffer]

McGeechan and Telfer's starting Lions XV
Hard to argue against any of the selections and I'd be happy to see that team start the first test. Though I'm sure others may not

Well, North won't be at 13
Just announced he wont be touring as he tore his ACL at the weekend. Shame as he's been playing well.

Shame for him. No way he's still playing for the next tour given the number of injuries and concussions he's had.

[Slick]

Itoje's played SA many times and his discipline's never been an issue then. I agree it was lousy in the 6N. Different coaches can yield different results, though. J Gray's been excellent. Ryan has been living off his early reputation for some time.

Itoje is still the stand out lock in the NH despite as you say his lousy discipline in the 6N. Gatland knows him from the last tour and will trust him. Agreed about Gray over Ryan though would have had a fit Launchbury over both of them.

I 'm convinced the lousy discipline is from lack of match sharpness, not coaching. He's not going to be reffed as sharply in the championship. Can he get international match sharp for a Lions test in a couple of games on tour?

Edit - a lot of sharp in that post.

I think you are probably right but either way, he's a nailed on starter for the 1st Test.

Re North, again, I think you are right. I would probably have had him starting at 13, think he's been great there this year.

[Margin__Walker]

Ben Youngs got a save the date notice of some sort from Gatland. However, his Mrs is expecting, so he's made himself unavailable.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugby ... frica.html

[clydecloggie]

Ben Youngs got a save the date notice of some sort from Gatland. However, his Mrs is expecting, so he's made himself unavailable.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugby ... frica.html

Second tour he's dropped out of. Whatever one might think about his qualities, that's some poor planning from the lad this time round. Should have paid a bit more attention to the birds and bees stuff in school.

[Kawazaki]

Ben Youngs got a save the date notice of some sort from Gatland. However, his Mrs is expecting, so he's made himself unavailable.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugby ... frica.html

You can't not get selected if you make yourself unavailable for selection.

[Big D]

Ben Youngs got a save the date notice of some sort from Gatland. However, his Mrs is expecting, so he's made himself unavailable.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugby ... frica.html

Fair play to him. Must take a lot to walk away from 1 Lions tour never mind potentially 2.

[Hal Jordan]

Ben Youngs got a save the date notice of some sort from Gatland. However, his Mrs is expecting, so he's made himself unavailable.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugby ... frica.html

Second tour he's dropped out of. Whatever one might think about his qualities, that's some poor planning from the lad this time round. Should have paid a bit more attention to the birds and bees stuff in school.

According to a friend of mine who was his Assistant Housemaster at Gresham's, he needed two attempts to get his shoes on the right foot, and that was with L and R painted on the soles.

[dpedin]

What happened to Underhill yesterday? Pretty anonymous and got subbed after 55mins. Not sure he did his Lions selection any good after that display. Did he pick up an injury?

[Biffer]

I’ve followed Bens example and made myself unavailable. Simplifies things for Gatland.

[Margin__Walker]

To be fair to him, he does seem to have waited until he was actively approached by Gatland (so on the reserves list at least) before making himself unavailable.

[Tichtheid]

There was a fair chance that he'd be in or around the squad, it's not a position of great strength for the Lions this time around.

The pool will be from Price, Murray, Williams, Davies and probably Cooney, who couldn't get a start for reasons best known to the Irish coaching team.

None of them are exactly Dupont-level players, Murray was terrific a few years ago..

In Faf, Jantjies and Reinach, the Boks have the edge in that position.

[SaintK]

To be fair to him, he does seem to have waited until he was actively approached by Gatland (so on the reserves list at least) before making himself unavailable.

Yep received one of the 50 "standby" letters that went out from Gatland

[sockwithaticket]

What happened to Underhill yesterday? Pretty anonymous and got subbed after 55mins. Not sure he did his Lions selection any good after that display. Did he pick up an injury?

He's almost always looked better for England than Bath. Not the best way to get noticed for the Lions though, especially having missed the 6 Nations.

Not the only one tbf, Bath seem very good at getting class players to perform inconsistently.

[Blackmac]

James Ryan today proved once and for all that he should be nowhere near the Lions squad. A huge fall in form aided by the fact he is just too bloody lightweight.

[JM2K6]

What happened to Underhill yesterday? Pretty anonymous and got subbed after 55mins. Not sure he did his Lions selection any good after that display. Did he pick up an injury?

Hah, bloke can't win. Misses the 6N with an injury so isn't tarred with the brush of England's failures but then his lack of rugby counts against him. He's barely played this year, just getting some matches under his belt. Still won a good turnover and made a ton of tackles, and some pretty heavy carrying too - he made more metres and more tackles than "nailed on Lion" Faletau managed in the full 80.

Genuinely think it would be ridiculous if someone like Underhill misses out - a guy who's been a dominant force in international rugby for a few years now - because he had a reasonably quiet game for shithouse Bath. If Gatland doesn't think that he's one of the top available flankers he's mad. Especially as he has form for picking players who are actually still injured to tour. But I don't think Gatland is quite so mad as to ignore years of performances :)

[Margin__Walker]

I've never seen a highlights video before where the creator has taken time out of it to have a weird dig at the subject's team mates

[sockwithaticket]

James Ryan today proved once and for all that he should be nowhere near the Lions squad. A huge fall in form aided by the fact he is just too bloody lightweight.

I've never really understood the hype tbh and on the evidence of the last couple of seasons, there's no real case for him going.

[Tichtheid]

I just read an article where a "journalist" yet again shows he has no understanding of the sport he makes a living off.

The lack of understanding of power and strength-to-weight ratios versus mass and height is just laughable. In the olden days of fat boys rolling over smaller lads and then going for a double dozen pints after the game this is an understandable viewpoint.

To still have this illusion when the game has been professional for over 25 years makes that "journalist" a laughing stock.

I don't read his columns very often, a coupe of times a year, but it seems to be the same old stuff every time I do.

You might ask why I bother, but it's a paper that seems to be respected for reasons that escape me and I think that watching the modern game might change one's point of view.

I was mistaken on that.

[Tichtheid]

James Ryan today proved once and for all that he should be nowhere near the Lions squad. A huge fall in form aided by the fact he is just too bloody lightweight.

I've never really understood the hype tbh and on the evidence of the last couple of seasons, there's no real case for him going.

I thought he was playing well enough a while ago to be in contention for a test start spot.

Now I fear the Lions are weak in that department.

The thing that works in the Lions' favour is the lack of game time together for the Boks, otherwise the B&I Lions would be facing a right mauling.

[Hal Jordan]

I just read an article where a "journalist" yet again shows he has no understanding of the sport he makes a living off.

The lack of understanding of power and strength-to-weight ratios versus mass and height is just laughable. In the olden days of fat boys rolling over smaller lads and then going for a double dozen pints after the game this is an understandable viewpoint.

To still have this illusion when the game has been professional for over 25 years makes that "journalist" a laughing stock.

I don't read his columns very often, a coupe of times a year, but it seems to be the same old stuff every time I do.

You might ask why I bother, but it's a paper that seems to be respected for reasons that escape me and I think that watching the modern game might change one's point of view.

I was mistaken on that.

Might this journalist not be aware that Andrew Sheridan, Simon Shaw and Mike Tindal have retired?

[Uncle fester]

James Ryan today proved once and for all that he should be nowhere near the Lions squad. A huge fall in form aided by the fact he is just too bloody lightweight.

I've never really understood the hype tbh and on the evidence of the last couple of seasons, there's no real case for him going.

Has been a bit off form since coming back from injury. Think he was rushed back tbh. Picked up a bit in latter end of 6n but he was in shop window today and didn't do his chances any good. Workrate still good but impact not up to scratch.

I'd be picking Henderson over Ryan myself. And Beirne obviously.

[Slick]

I just read an article where a "journalist" yet again shows he has no understanding of the sport he makes a living off.

The lack of understanding of power and strength-to-weight ratios versus mass and height is just laughable. In the olden days of fat boys rolling over smaller lads and then going for a double dozen pints after the game this is an understandable viewpoint.

To still have this illusion when the game has been professional for over 25 years makes that "journalist" a laughing stock.

I don't read his columns very often, a coupe of times a year, but it seems to be the same old stuff every time I do.

You might ask why I bother, but it's a paper that seems to be respected for reasons that escape me and I think that watching the modern game might change one's point of view.

I was mistaken on that.

Was this the same journalist who has spent the best part of 10 years writing clickbait and manufacturing controversy who wrote another article in the same paper telling us how awful everyone else in the world was for not rallying round the Lions whatever the circumstances?