So, coronavirus...

[Jockaline]

Not sure if it was Bolton or not, but it sounded for a while they were going to give the vaccine to anyone in hot spot regardless of age. After initially thinking that didn't seem fair, but now think it's an excellent idea. We're now in the age bands where the health risks are not really age dependent.

In Scotland some areas hospitality have not been able to open up, if they were prioritised then the unlocking would be expedited, which would be good for the general economy. It would also mitigate it spreading further afield.

Would still have some age vaccinations, in addition to target areas with high cases, but I might swap age direction around as the younger adults are probably the biggest spreaders, they have been probably some of the harder hit, and likely the biggest consumers of the business still locked down.

I wrote a long answer to this but junked it. Frankly, we're all in this together, and if "the young" are ignoring guidance and therefore exposing themselves to risk I'm not really sure why the rest of the population should have to delay their return to make it easier for everyone else. You're effectively proposing to reward anti-social behaviour.

Not really, how is it fair that teenagers are bottom of the queue if 30 years olds have no material greater risk. But iT is not really about being fair, there's nothing fair about this virus, more what the greatest benefit to the wider community and economy. The age approach has worked really well so far, but that doesn't mean it's the best way forward now. There are remote areas in Scotland, which have barely been impacted with far higher vaccinations compared to the biggest cities.

[Jockaline]

Exposed to other devices over an extended period of time. There's some programming involved but it would take longer than I have right now to explain it. The algorithm is also really shit.

This "oh, if I walk past someone who has it" is utter bollocks daily mail crap.

You're more likely to be contacted if you just fill in the name and number list that all pubs are keeping.


Oh, and in respect to paddington's post, only one pub I've been in in the last month has been lax on this, and we left pretty rapidly.

In my experience no one puts their real phone number down at the pub. I rely on social distancing but I live in the country and the only two places I have been in the last two months is the Golf club and the supermarket.

so, in your experience nobody gives their real number in the pub, but you haven't been to the pub. okay.

there's so little risk to the app i can't see why you wouldn't do it unless you're antivax etc. and wrt whoever was talking about access to medical records, i have only entered my contact details on there, they certainly don't have my nhs number

Don't have an issue with the test and trace app, it's the NHS app that I'm a bit more wary of because I don't know a lot about it. Sure it will be fine.

[Saint]

I can't say I'm too keen to have an app with all my medical records on it. Am I being overly paranoid?

Yes. The app takes a lot of authentication to access your records - frankly, it would be easier for a walkup to fake your identity than to impersonate you remotely.

If you do any sort of online banking then you need to fix their authentication before worrying about your health records - by comparison they're outrageously lax

Cheers, I'm more worried about my phone falling into the wrong hands physically or remotely and flogging my data. I guess there isn't that much demand for health record data though.

I am not that trusting of digital channels, I don't do any mobile banking, or do any payments using my phone. I use my phone to call, text, checkout bus times, browse etc. I work for a bank and always use my work's network for any PC banking too.

You still need to authenticate to the app before accessing anything. So, let's assume you've lost your phone. You've not put any password or fingerprint authentication on it at all, so it's open to anyone off the street. Some random picks it up and decide to fire up your NHS app. At this point they are either get by a username/password request, or a bio authentication request (fingerprint). Even if you as an imbecile wanted to turn that level off to make life easy for yourself, you can't - the app determined the security level required to access it.

I fingerprint auth on my phone around 15-20 times a day. I get that it's easy for me to feel safe around this type of stuff, but the reality is that this is actually over-secure

[Saint]

In my experience no one puts their real phone number down at the pub. I rely on social distancing but I live in the country and the only two places I have been in the last two months is the Golf club and the supermarket.

so, in your experience nobody gives their real number in the pub, but you haven't been to the pub. okay.

there's so little risk to the app i can't see why you wouldn't do it unless you're antivax etc. and wrt whoever was talking about access to medical records, i have only entered my contact details on there, they certainly don't have my nhs number

Don't have an issue with the test and trace app, it's the NHS app that I'm a bit more wary of because I don't know a lot about it. Sure it will be fine.

The NHS app is the relatively long established app with lots of thought given to security/access etc.

[Saint]

Not sure if it was Bolton or not, but it sounded for a while they were going to give the vaccine to anyone in hot spot regardless of age. After initially thinking that didn't seem fair, but now think it's an excellent idea. We're now in the age bands where the health risks are not really age dependent.

In Scotland some areas hospitality have not been able to open up, if they were prioritised then the unlocking would be expedited, which would be good for the general economy. It would also mitigate it spreading further afield.

Would still have some age vaccinations, in addition to target areas with high cases, but I might swap age direction around as the younger adults are probably the biggest spreaders, they have been probably some of the harder hit, and likely the biggest consumers of the business still locked down.

I wrote a long answer to this but junked it. Frankly, we're all in this together, and if "the young" are ignoring guidance and therefore exposing themselves to risk I'm not really sure why the rest of the population should have to delay their return to make it easier for everyone else. You're effectively proposing to reward anti-social behaviour.

Not really, how is it fair that teenagers are bottom of the queue if 30 years olds have no material greater risk. But iT is not really about being fair, there's nothing fair about this virus, more what the greatest benefit to the wider community and economy. The age approach has worked really well so far, but that doesn't mean it's the best way forward now. There are remote areas in Scotland, which have barely been impacted with far higher vaccinations compared to the biggest cities.

1 - We still haven't reached 30 year olds. I was laughing about this 2 weeks ago when Covax/WHO said we should be releasing doses to the rest of the world because the reward for vaxing 30YO vs a 70 WO in Africa didn't make sense - at that point we were only just approving 40YO

2 - If we don't recognise that we are all in this together as a society, and distribute the vaccine on an healthcare basis (and we can recognise the difference between an 18 YO and a 30YO in terms of risk/reward) then we might as well all give up

[Jockaline]

OK, so even an imbilcele like me will be safe

[Hong Kong]

https://www.axios.com/covid-deaths-zero ... ba912.html how long before the orange shitgibbon claims that this is fake news?

[SaintK]

How does it work then - I was under the impression (clearly erroneously) that is is all about proximity to other mobile devices...

Exposed to other devices over an extended period of time. There's some programming involved but it would take longer than I have right now to explain it. The algorithm is also really shit.

This "oh, if I walk past someone who has it" is utter bollocks daily mail crap.

You're more likely to be contacted if you just fill in the name and number list that all pubs are keeping.


Oh, and in respect to paddington's post, only one pub I've been in in the last month has been lax on this, and we left pretty rapidly.

In my experience no one puts their real phone number down at the pub. I rely on social distancing but I live in the country and the only two places I have been in the last two months is the Golf club and the supermarket.

How on earth do you know that if you've only been to the supermarket and golf club?
It may be the case in your little world but all the places I've been to recently you dont get shown to your table or served until you have checked in.

[Sandstorm]

41 year old friend had 1st jab 6 days ago, today he tests positive for Covid. Probably caught it from his kid who's whole class was sent home.

Colleague's 65 year old Mum had her second Pfiser on Sunday. She also had Covid last October and ended up in hospital on oxygen for 3 days. Says she probably feels worse after this jab.

[Ovals]

41 year old friend had 1st jab 6 days ago, today he tests positive for Covid. Probably caught it from his kid who's whole class was sent home.

Colleague's 65 year old Mum had her second Pfiser on Sunday. She also had Covid last October and ended up in hospital on oxygen for 3 days. Says she probably feels worse after this jab.

Worse than having to be admitted to hospital for 3 days !! Seems a bit of a stretch.........................

[Sandstorm]

41 year old friend had 1st jab 6 days ago, today he tests positive for Covid. Probably caught it from his kid who's whole class was sent home.

Colleague's 65 year old Mum had her second Pfiser on Sunday. She also had Covid last October and ended up in hospital on oxygen for 3 days. Says she probably feels worse after this jab.

Worse than having to be admitted to hospital for 3 days !! Seems a bit of a stretch.........................

Apparently she's a bit delirious

[SaintK]

.........and they still can't get the messaging right after 15 months!!!

Ministers have been accused of sowing confusion over what foreign travel is permitted for people in England after sending out mixed messages relating to its traffic light system.

On Wednesday, the education minister Gillian Keegan urged people to be “sensible” and not travel to “amber list” countries for holidays, but her comments followed differing advice the day before.

Just 24 hours earlier, the environment secretary, George Eustice, stated on BBC Radio 4’s Today programme that people could travel to amber list countries to see family and friends. However, shortly afterwards the prime minister clarified that people should only go to amber list countries for “some pressing family or urgent business reason”.

In the House of Lords on Tuesday night, the health minister Lord Bethell said people should not travel at all, even to green list countries. He said: “We do ask people, particularly as we go into the summer, travelling is not for this year, please stay in this country.”

[Sandstorm]

.........and they still can't get the messaging right after 15 months!!!

Ministers have been accused of sowing confusion over what foreign travel is permitted for people in England after sending out mixed messages relating to its traffic light system.

On Wednesday, the education minister Gillian Keegan urged people to be “sensible” and not travel to “amber list” countries for holidays, but her comments followed differing advice the day before.

Just 24 hours earlier, the environment secretary, George Eustice, stated on BBC Radio 4’s Today programme that people could travel to amber list countries to see family and friends. However, shortly afterwards the prime minister clarified that people should only go to amber list countries for “some pressing family or urgent business reason”.

In the House of Lords on Tuesday night, the health minister Lord Bethell said people should not travel at all, even to green list countries. He said: “We do ask people, particularly as we go into the summer, travelling is not for this year, please stay in this country.”

Too many Ministers appearing in the media instead of getting their heads down and doing some actual work in their constituencies.

[Saint]

It's all a bit of a mess, especially the Amber list. There's people who booked holidays before the pandemic to Amber countries that were due to travel last year. Travel companies induced them to roll their booking over to this year rather than refund them.

Now if they don't go they're not entitled to a refund as the FCO says they're allowed to travel - but they're not able to commit to the extra time self isolating on return.

It's not being helped then by Easyjet/Ryanair offering dirt cheap flights to many countries on the Amber list.

Travel lists should be straightforwards - a Green list with no restrictions, and a Red list where you can only travel for specific reasons (that will be checked) and has all the associated quarantine on return. I know that the travel industry will be up in arms about it, but the government needs to remove the grey areas

[SaintK]

It's all a bit of a mess, especially the Amber list. There's people who booked holidays before the pandemic to Amber countries that were due to travel last year. Travel companies induced them to roll their booking over to this year rather than refund them.

Now if they don't go they're not entitled to a refund as the FCO says they're allowed to travel - but they're not able to commit to the extra time self isolating on return.

It's not being helped then by Easyjet/Ryanair offering dirt cheap flights to many countries on the Amber list.

Travel lists should be straightforwards - a Green list with no restrictions, and a Red list where you can only travel for specific reasons (that will be checked) and has all the associated quarantine on return. I know that the travel industry will be up in arms about it, but the government needs to remove the grey areas

Far too easy and sensible for the shower of shite governing this country

[Margin__Walker]

It's all a bit of a mess, especially the Amber list. There's people who booked holidays before the pandemic to Amber countries that were due to travel last year. Travel companies induced them to roll their booking over to this year rather than refund them.

Now if they don't go they're not entitled to a refund as the FCO says they're allowed to travel - but they're not able to commit to the extra time self isolating on return.

It's not being helped then by Easyjet/Ryanair offering dirt cheap flights to many countries on the Amber list.

Travel lists should be straightforwards - a Green list with no restrictions, and a Red list where you can only travel for specific reasons (that will be checked) and has all the associated quarantine on return. I know that the travel industry will be up in arms about it, but the government needs to remove the grey areas

That's the position we were in. Were booked for last summer. Moved to early June this year. Travel company have been fine though in this case and we've just pushed it out to next year.

[Insane_Homer]

[Slick]

It's all a bit of a mess, especially the Amber list. There's people who booked holidays before the pandemic to Amber countries that were due to travel last year. Travel companies induced them to roll their booking over to this year rather than refund them.

Now if they don't go they're not entitled to a refund as the FCO says they're allowed to travel - but they're not able to commit to the extra time self isolating on return.

It's not being helped then by Easyjet/Ryanair offering dirt cheap flights to many countries on the Amber list.

Travel lists should be straightforwards - a Green list with no restrictions, and a Red list where you can only travel for specific reasons (that will be checked) and has all the associated quarantine on return. I know that the travel industry will be up in arms about it, but the government needs to remove the grey areas

The travel industry are being pretty awful in all this. Of course I realise they have businesses to run etc but they are actively encouraging people to non green countries knowing that few will isolate on return. They don't seem to realise what another lockdown will entail for them.

[Sandstorm]

It's all a bit of a mess, especially the Amber list. There's people who booked holidays before the pandemic to Amber countries that were due to travel last year. Travel companies induced them to roll their booking over to this year rather than refund them.

Now if they don't go they're not entitled to a refund as the FCO says they're allowed to travel - but they're not able to commit to the extra time self isolating on return.

It's not being helped then by Easyjet/Ryanair offering dirt cheap flights to many countries on the Amber list.

Travel lists should be straightforwards - a Green list with no restrictions, and a Red list where you can only travel for specific reasons (that will be checked) and has all the associated quarantine on return. I know that the travel industry will be up in arms about it, but the government needs to remove the grey areas

The travel industry are being pretty awful in all this. Of course I realise they have businesses to run etc but they are actively encouraging people to non green countries knowing that few will isolate on return. They don't seem to realise what another lockdown will entail for them.

More Govt handouts of 80% turnover like last year? Obviously they'll cash in now while they can too.

[Lemoentjie]

Now if they don't go they're not entitled to a refund as the FCO says they're allowed to travel - but they're not able to commit to the extra time self isolating on return.

Then don't book a holiday in the middle of a pandemic?

People are like American banks now. Privatized gains, socialised losses. Pick one or the other.

[Saint]

Now if they don't go they're not entitled to a refund as the FCO says they're allowed to travel - but they're not able to commit to the extra time self isolating on return.

Then don't book a holiday in the middle of a pandemic?

People are like American banks now. Privatized gains, socialised losses. Pick one or the other.

I'm not talkng about people who booked last year. I'm talking about people who booked in 2019 originally. Like I said in my post

[Lemoentjie]

Now if they don't go they're not entitled to a refund as the FCO says they're allowed to travel - but they're not able to commit to the extra time self isolating on return.

Then don't book a holiday in the middle of a pandemic?

People are like American banks now. Privatized gains, socialised losses. Pick one or the other.

I'm not talkng about people who booked last year. I'm talking about people who booked in 2019 originally. Like I said in my post

Sorry, I didn't read your previous post.

[tabascoboy]

]

[Openside]

Exposed to other devices over an extended period of time. There's some programming involved but it would take longer than I have right now to explain it. The algorithm is also really shit.

This "oh, if I walk past someone who has it" is utter bollocks daily mail crap.

You're more likely to be contacted if you just fill in the name and number list that all pubs are keeping.


Oh, and in respect to paddington's post, only one pub I've been in in the last month has been lax on this, and we left pretty rapidly.

In my experience no one puts their real phone number down at the pub. I rely on social distancing but I live in the country and the only two places I have been in the last two months is the Golf club and the supermarket.

so, in your experience nobody gives their real number in the pub, but you haven't been to the pub. okay.

there's so little risk to the app i can't see why you wouldn't do it unless you're antivax etc. and wrt whoever was talking about access to medical records, i have only entered my contact details on there, they certainly don't have my nhs number

Do you know there is this extraordinary thing called conversation with which you can learn all manner of things. For instance I know that 19,000 died before breakfast on the first day of the Somme and I wasn't even there to witness it

[SaintK]

]

Test and trace still a shambles! Yet Hancock was insinuating both in the House and in his most recent Downing St briefing that it was "vaccine hesitancy" causing the surge in Blackburn and other places rather than the sheer incompetence of Dido Harding and her pals at Serco

Failures in England's test-and-trace system are partly responsible for a surge in the Indian variant in one of the worst affected parts of the country, a report seen by the BBC says.
For three weeks in April and May, eight local authorities in England did not have access to the full data on positive tests in their area.
The number of missing cases was highest in Blackburn with Darwen, Lancashire.
A recent surge in infections there has been linked to the Indian variant.
The government said a "small number" of people in contact with those who tested positive for coronavirus had "experienced a temporary delay in getting a message from NHS Test and Trace".
The other areas affected by what is thought to have been a technical glitch were Blackpool, York, Bath and North East Somerset, Bristol, North Somerset, Southend-on-Sea and Thurrock.

[Saint]

PHE have published data on the real world efficacy of AZ second dose. Based on data for 65 Year olds, a 2nd dose reduces your chances of getting symptomatic Covid by 90% - almost exactlyt he same as the data they released a month or so ago on the Pfizer 2nd dose.

The really good news is that this level of efficacy is much better than the assumed levels being used by the data modellers to support unlocking

[Biffer]

In my experience no one puts their real phone number down at the pub. I rely on social distancing but I live in the country and the only two places I have been in the last two months is the Golf club and the supermarket.

so, in your experience nobody gives their real number in the pub, but you haven't been to the pub. okay.

there's so little risk to the app i can't see why you wouldn't do it unless you're antivax etc. and wrt whoever was talking about access to medical records, i have only entered my contact details on there, they certainly don't have my nhs number

Do you know there is this extraordinary thing called conversation with which you can learn all manner of things. For instance I know that 19,000 died before breakfast on the first day of the Somme and I wasn't even there to witness it

But you still had no experience of the Somme. It's your 'in my experience' BS that people are calling out - it's not your experience it's hearsay.

[tc27]

Every adult should be offered a vaccine by the end of June.

Currently the vaccine tracker is showing the UK on target to reach this by July 10 so a modest but substained increase in first doses is required.

[laurent]

I will be in tomorrow's statistics, eagerly waiting for 5G

[Margin__Walker]

Getting my first dose tonight. My wife, who's 5 years younger is getting hers next Thursday, so seems to be moving fairly quickly.

Must confess to struggling to get too worked up about the Indian variant just yet in terms of it's potential for huge disruption. Providing the vaccines still work against it (which they seem to by all accounts), to a layman like me we seem to be in a vastly different place than we were at the back end of last year.

May just be me being naïve though.

[SaintK]

so, in your experience nobody gives their real number in the pub, but you haven't been to the pub. okay.

there's so little risk to the app i can't see why you wouldn't do it unless you're antivax etc. and wrt whoever was talking about access to medical records, i have only entered my contact details on there, they certainly don't have my nhs number

Do you know there is this extraordinary thing called conversation with which you can learn all manner of things. For instance I know that 19,000 died before breakfast on the first day of the Somme and I wasn't even there to witness it

But you still had no experience of the Somme. It's your 'in my experience' BS that people are calling out - it's not your experience it's hearsay.

quite

[Saint]

I will be in tomorrow's statistics, eagerly waiting for 5G

Mine still hasn't shown up

[Saint]

Every adult should be offered a vaccine by the end of June.

Currently the vaccine tracker is showing the UK on target to reach this by July 10 so a modest but substained increase in first doses is required.

If we miss the target it's going to be down to a lack of supply. We can easily run at a million more per week than we're actually delivering; if we were to use our single best day as a benchmark we can go at 2 million more per week

[Sandstorm]

Must confess to struggling to get too worked up about the Indian variant just yet in terms of it's potential for huge disruption. Providing the vaccines still work against it (which they seem to by all accounts), to a layman like me we seem to be in a vastly different place than we were at the back end of last year.

May just be me being naïve though.

I’m the same as you. UK is in a great place at last.

[Un Pilier]

All things considered, I’m feeling pretty positive right now, though we are nowhere near normal footfall anywhere.

I watched some of the Giro today and was really struck by the overheads of Florence, a city I know well. I have never seen it anywhere near as quiet, even in the early hours of the morning.

[tc27]

Im 39.

Lets let then kids out to have an amazing summer.

I may join in as long as I can bug out by 11.30.

[dpedin]

Must confess to struggling to get too worked up about the Indian variant just yet in terms of it's potential for huge disruption. Providing the vaccines still work against it (which they seem to by all accounts), to a layman like me we seem to be in a vastly different place than we were at the back end of last year.

May just be me being naïve though.

I’m the same as you. UK is in a great place at last.

The only issue is the more transmissible the variant the higher the % of the pop required to be vaccinated to achieve herd immunity and stop community transmission. If this variant is 50% more transmissible than the Kent one then that increases the figure required for herd immunity from the 80-85% previously thought required. Ive not seen the new % requirement and haven't done the calculation myself yet but it does stretch the target a little bit further away. Also as long as we have community transmission of the new variant then the more cases we will get - only 55% of the UK pop have had at least one jab so there are still c30m folk unvaccinated - and the more hospitalisations and long covid type cases we have and with still a lot of unknowns about the long term effect it is probably prudent not to just let the unvaccinated pop be put at unknown health risks? Even though hospitalisations are much lower in younger age groups it could potentially still be a lot of folk, a small % of a very large number is still likely to be a very large number! The last thing we want is for the NHS, which is now focusing upon the huge backlog of non covid cases to have to deal with lots of admissions of covid cases - the cancers, the cardiac cases etc need to be the priority. Better to be prudent and keep social distancing and masks etc until we reach higher levels of vaccination and cut community transmission to very low levels, it is only a matter a weeks away. Lets just be sensible, we are in a good place it would be a shame to snatch defeat ...

[Sandstorm]

Must confess to struggling to get too worked up about the Indian variant just yet in terms of it's potential for huge disruption. Providing the vaccines still work against it (which they seem to by all accounts), to a layman like me we seem to be in a vastly different place than we were at the back end of last year.

May just be me being naïve though.

I’m the same as you. UK is in a great place at last.

The only issue is the more transmissible the variant the higher the % of the pop required to be vaccinated to achieve herd immunity and stop community transmission. If this variant is 50% more transmissible than the Kent one then that increases the figure required for herd immunity from the 80-85% previously thought required. Ive not seen the new % requirement and haven't done the calculation myself yet but it does stretch the target a little bit further away. Also as long as we have community transmission of the new variant then the more cases we will get - only 55% of the UK pop have had at least one jab so there are still c30m folk unvaccinated - and the more hospitalisations and long covid type cases we have and with still a lot of unknowns about the long term effect it is probably prudent not to just let the unvaccinated pop be put at unknown health risks? Even though hospitalisations are much lower in younger age groups it could potentially still be a lot of folk, a small % of a very large number is still likely to be a very large number! The last thing we want is for the NHS, which is now focusing upon the huge backlog of non covid cases to have to deal with lots of admissions of covid cases - the cancers, the cardiac cases etc need to be the priority. Better to be prudent and keep social distancing and masks etc until we reach higher levels of vaccination and cut community transmission to very low levels, it is only a matter a weeks away. Lets just be sensible, we are in a good place it would be a shame to snatch defeat ...

First of all there’s no evidence that any new variant is 50% more transmissible.

Second, you’re ruining my buzz man.

[ohno]

That's not how it works ffs. Even the telegraph reports it better than that little trite soundbite. You used to be better than this

How does it work then - I was under the impression (clearly erroneously) that is is all about proximity to other mobile devices...

Exposed to other devices over an extended period of time. There's some programming involved but it would take longer than I have right now to explain it. The algorithm is also really shit.

This "oh, if I walk past someone who has it" is utter bollocks daily mail crap.

You're more likely to be contacted if you just fill in the name and number list that all pubs are keeping.


Oh, and in respect to paddington's post, only one pub I've been in in the last month has been lax on this, and we left pretty rapidly.

Having just had a taste of the toon for the first time in over a year, scanning the QR code on your app is pretty much universal. If you can’t scan the app the bouncer gets you to fuck off until you’ve downloaded the app and can. To get to the root of the issue, enforcing scan in at arrival saves them having to keep and deal with other records.

[Openside]

so, in your experience nobody gives their real number in the pub, but you haven't been to the pub. okay.

there's so little risk to the app i can't see why you wouldn't do it unless you're antivax etc. and wrt whoever was talking about access to medical records, i have only entered my contact details on there, they certainly don't have my nhs number

Do you know there is this extraordinary thing called conversation with which you can learn all manner of things. For instance I know that 19,000 died before breakfast on the first day of the Somme and I wasn't even there to witness it

But you still had no experience of the Somme. It's your 'in my experience' BS that people are calling out - it's not your experience it's hearsay.

Aah so if was sophistry rather than the validity of my comment. In which case your ‘experience’ only ever counts for you as an individual.