Is this fan racist ?

[Akkerman]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/ ... -over-post

The Leicester wing Nemani Nadolo has accused a supporter of casual racism following a comment on social media in which the fan suggested the club sign “players with names we can pronounce”.

On Monday Leicester announced five new signings including Nadolo’s fellow Fijian Kini Murimurivalu. A Facebook user responded to the arrivals by commenting: “Great signings but please can we have some players with names we can pronounce lol.”’

Nadolo, who arrived at Leicester as a signing from Montpellier this month, having won 30 caps for Fiji, made his opinion clear on social media. On Instagram he wrote: “I don’t stand for this I’m calling it out for what it is … casual racism. It’s just a shame it’s from a supporter of my club! Our name isn’t good enough??”

Earlier on Twitter, alongside a screenshot of the supporter’s post, he wrote: “A comment made on the signing of my mate Kini Murimurivalu by one of the supporters.. sorry but I don’t stand for this s**t … I’ll let head office know tomorrow to change my name to Bob to make it easier for some!.. oh yeah I bet it was joke too.”

Leicester, who reported to police in April 2019 “vile and disgusting” abuse of some of their players on social media, issued a swift statement in response: “Rugby prides itself on being an inclusive game for all and as a club we do not condone any form of discrimination. The club has a proud record of combining local players with signings from other parts of the world and we are certain that the Tigers Family will, as always, warmly welcome all of the new signings to the city and county, as we saw with the overwhelming majority of comments this week.”

[Raggs]

He's probably not a racist, but that is casual racism and should be called out as much.

[ASMO]

Nah, just thick, I can't see how you can associate a difficult to pronounce name with any specific race as every ethnicity has names that are hard on the tongue. This sounds more like some woke driven response

[Line6 HXFX]

Nah, just thick, I can't see how you can associate a difficult to pronounce name with any specific race as every ethnicity has names that are hard on the tongue. This sounds more like some woke driven response

He suggested the club sign players, not on their skill or talent or the contents of their character etc but based on names that he finds difficult to pronounce.
Employers dump applications from people with "difficult to pronounce" names all the time. People are even encouraged to change their foriegn sounding names to avoid this racial profiling in the uk, it is a huge problem for people..
it is just as racist to suggest employers do it, as actually doing it (profiling people by their names).

[assfly]

He's an idiot; the jokes on him as he's admitting to not being able to read.

But I wouldn't call this racism. For me it's a far reach commenting on someone's surname being likened to abusing someone because of the colour of their skin.

[FujiKiwi]

Nah, just thick, I can't see how you can associate a difficult to pronounce name with any specific race as every ethnicity has names that are hard on the tongue. This sounds more like some woke driven response

Are you saying Nemani Nadolo is just being "woke"?

[ASMO]

If someone thinks "“Great signings but please can we have some players with names we can pronounce lol.”’ is racist then it is my opinion that is someone who is seeking to be offended by something, there are plenty of difficult to pronounce names of English, French, German, Spanish, Dutch people...shall i go on? It has nothing to do with race in my view and was actually a very light hearted comment. It should be noted that this person also said these are great signings, hardly the mark of a racist really.

[FujiKiwi]

Is Nemani Nadolo just seeking to be offended, or is he a person who has probably experienced a lot of racism and knows what it looks like?

there are plenty of difficult to pronounce names of English, French, German, Spanish, Dutch people...shall i go on?

This is rather beside the point. I'm sure all of these peoples have had their language mocked in prejudiced ways. It doesn't negate the idea that Pacific Islanders and their languages are being mocked at all.

[Nols]

Casual racism, rooted in cultural ignorance. Not an overt racist (based on that comment alone).

Being ignorant of pronunciations from other languages and cultures isn't a bad thing, we can't all know everything. Suggesting that the club should sign players based on your own narrow perspectives and familiarity is, though. Ask how to pronounce the names, don't mock. It's not difficult.

[Lemoentjie]

Is it not... just a joke? The fan wrote 'lol' at the end of the sentence, he's not genuinely saying it should be the club's transfer policy.

Thin-skinned people

[FujiKiwi]

Is it not... just a joke? The fan wrote 'lol' at the end of the sentence, he's not genuinely saying it should be the club's transfer policy.

Thin-skinned people

This is an outdated view, thank God. Thank fuck people are now getting called on these "jokes".

[Torquemada 1420]

JHC, has Nadolo got nothing better to do with his time?

[FujiKiwi]

JHC, has Nadolo got nothing better to do with his time?

If he feels insulted he should just shut up about it?

[Scottish Blackface]

A better response may have been some help with some phonetic spelling and a happy smiley face.

But we do live in a free country so he is within his rights to be outraged or slightly offended others are also within their rights to question the true level of this outrage or offense.
A bit of debate may also clarify what the relevant communities think should be acceptable in the future.
On the plus side I'm pretty sure his pay packet will be equal to those with more pronounceable surnames and he came to this country of his own free will.

[FujiKiwi]

Minorities shouldn't just be expected to laugh off things they find offensive or get labeled "thin-skinned".

"Well, you shouldn't have come to our country if you didn't want to be made fun of and ostracized" isn't a very convincing response to this, either.

[Hugo]

The person who made the comment appears to be, based on the screenshot a woman named Carole.

My guess is she's middle aged, middle class and leads a relatively sheltered existence. Im sure she meant no harm by the comment and thought she was being funny (it's basically a Dad joke) but by definition it is racist because she says that players with exotic/foreign sounding names should not be signed. It is exclusionary.

[Scottish Blackface]

I don't disagree FK and am merely suggesting that perhaps helping with the pronunciation would have been a good ice breaker that would have led to butter mutual understanding in a less confrontational manner.
Hopefully everybody has learnt something from this misunderstanding.

[FujiKiwi]

I don't disagree FK and am merely suggesting that perhaps helping with the pronunciation would have been a good ice breaker that would have led to butter mutual understanding in a less confrontational manner.
Hopefully everybody has learnt something from this misunderstanding.

Sure, and I get that a friendly, constructive reply might have helped. But the expectation that Fijians have to just grin and bear with the ignorance directed at them doesn't sit right with me. Let victims of racism get pissed off, FFS.

[Guy Smiley]

The irony of someone complaining about pronouncing the phonetically spelt name ‘ Murimurivalu’ being a Leicester supporter deserves a giggle.

[Torquemada 1420]

JHC, has Nadolo got nothing better to do with his time?

If he feels insulted he should just shut up about it?

Grow a spine would be my suggestion. All this fringe whining coupled with the clamouring of virtue signallers actually undermines the efforts against the aspects of racism that have serious repercussions.
It chisels away at the support from the moderate, middle grounders as more of them simply become sick and tired of the cry baby, attention seekers.

Wake up call. There are degrees of racism. And focusing on this p*ss weak end of it is counter productive.

[Raggs]

JHC, has Nadolo got nothing better to do with his time?

If he feels insulted he should just shut up about it?

Grow a spine would be my suggestion. All this fringe whining coupled with the clamouring of virtue signallers actually undermines the efforts against the aspects of racism that have serious repercussions.
It chisels away at the support from the moderate, middle grounders as more of them simply become sick and tired of the cry baby, attention seekers.

Wake up call. There are degrees of racism. And focusing on this p*ss weak end of it is counter productive.

There are degrees of racism, and casual racism like this can be emboldening to more serious racists. It shows that racism is acceptable, when it really shouldn't be.

I was the moderate middle grounders a few years ago, saying that really all lives matter etc etc, and I'm coming to realise that it's not the right stance to have.

If you really believe that there's moderate middle grounders that are going to become more racist because Nadolo picks up this womans casual racism and berates it, then I think you're either mistaken on their changing attitudes, or on their original position.

[Yeeb]

You just know that fan has a dog not called Digger

[JM2K6]

Fair play to Nadolo for calling it what it is and risking a backlash from his new fans. I'm sure he's had to deal with stuff like this his entire life.

[Oxbow]

It's casual racism but more likely born out of rank stupidity rather than any genuine racist intent. If she'd make the same remark when Leicester signed Mamukashvili, would it have gone unnoticed?

[JM2K6]

It's casual racism but more likely born out of rank stupidity rather than any genuine racist intent. If she'd make the same remark when Leicester signed Mamukashvili, would it have gone unnoticed?

This is a bit of a "tree falling in the woods" question, I feel.

[mat the expat]

Fair play to Nadolo for calling it what it is and risking a backlash from his new fans. I'm sure he's had to deal with stuff like this his entire life.

It would be terrible. Fair play to him

[sockwithaticket]

I don't disagree FK and am merely suggesting that perhaps helping with the pronunciation would have been a good ice breaker that would have led to butter mutual understanding in a less confrontational manner.
Hopefully everybody has learnt something from this misunderstanding.

Sure, and I get that a friendly, constructive reply might have helped. But the expectation that Fijians have to just grin and bear with the ignorance directed at them doesn't sit right with me. Let victims of racism get pissed off, FFS.

Yep and it'd be valid for anyone who's name isn't obviously Anglicised.

I imagine it's not the first time Nadolo has directly or indireclty heard such a comment which is why the reply is less than genial.

Identity erasure by conforming names to be less 'foreign' is a real issue for migrant and minority populations and every time someone, however mildly or neutrally intentioned, makes a comment about pronunciation difficulty or how funny foreign names are it exerts pressure to conform to local norms and shed an aspect of identity. IIRC Nathan Hughes' grandfather Anglicised the family name to make himself appear more respectable in colonial Fiji and differentiate himself from the rest of the indigenous population not because he thought Anglicised names were awesome.

[FujiKiwi]

JHC, has Nadolo got nothing better to do with his time?

If he feels insulted he should just shut up about it?

Grow a spine would be my suggestion. All this fringe whining coupled with the clamouring of virtue signallers actually undermines the efforts against the aspects of racism that have serious repercussions.
It chisels away at the support from the moderate, middle grounders as more of them simply become sick and tired of the cry baby, attention seekers.

Wake up call. There are degrees of racism. And focusing on this p*ss weak end of it is counter productive.

Jesus Christ. You have whined a lot more about being mistreated by Jake in an online forum than Nadolo has complained about casual racism.

[Lemoentjie]

Is it not... just a joke? The fan wrote 'lol' at the end of the sentence, he's not genuinely saying it should be the club's transfer policy.

Thin-skinned people

This is an outdated view, thank God. Thank fuck people are now getting called on these "jokes".

I've had the same jokes made to me (people joking my last name is hard to pronounce) in the UK, to me it's just an obvious cultural difference that can be funny. They laughed at some of my attempts at pronouncing UK town names. But hey, I don't have skin thinner than an atom layer.

[sockwithaticket]

Is it not... just a joke? The fan wrote 'lol' at the end of the sentence, he's not genuinely saying it should be the club's transfer policy.

Thin-skinned people

...and?

Jokes can be racist, however mildly or unintentionally.

[FujiKiwi]

Is it not... just a joke? The fan wrote 'lol' at the end of the sentence, he's not genuinely saying it should be the club's transfer policy.

Thin-skinned people

This is an outdated view, thank God. Thank fuck people are now getting called on these "jokes".

I've had the same jokes made to me (people joking my last name is hard to pronounce) in the UK, to me it's just an obvious cultural difference that can be funny. They laughed at some of my attempts at pronouncing UK town names. But hey, I don't have skin thinner than an atom layer.

In one tweet, she suggests that she doesn't want any more Fijians at her club, that their names are an inconvenience to her and that players like Nadolo and Murimurivalu don't deserve the respect of her trying to learn their names properly. But that's OK, because she types "lol" afterwards.

[Woddy]

I'm certain that can be classified as casual racism. Also, I can attest to how others not being able to pronounce your name (a fairly standard English nickname, just doesn't transliterate into Chilean Spanish phonetics) and/or calling you "gringo" (not always an affectionate term, shall we say) even after 12 months just because of where you're from, are like dripping taps. No one instance of it is necessarily meant to insult or offend, and 95% was certainly not so meant; however a few are and even so it just gets under your skin after a while and grates. So, I can understand his discomfort with it.

On the other hand, it would have been quite wrong of me to berate everyone about it. That would have been completely unbalanced and self-regarding. There has to be a balance to it and sometimes the recipient does just have to grow a spine and get over their distaste and sense of being offended - often because they are quite simply wrong to feel that way with each individual instance. Chile is an endemically racist country and the part I was in especially so, and that needs sorting out, but the suffering of a gringo was and should have been the least of anyone's worries, mine included.

[FujiKiwi]

I'm certain that can be classified as casual racism. Also, I can attest to how others not being able to pronounce your name (a fairly standard English nickname, just doesn't transliterate into Chilean Spanish phonetics) and/or calling you "gringo" (not always an affectionate term, shall we say) even after 12 months just because of where you're from, are like dripping taps. No one instance of it is necessarily meant to insult or offend, and 95% was certainly not so meant; however a few are and even so it just gets under your skin after a while and grates. So, I can understand his discomfort with it.

On the other hand, it would have been quite wrong of me to berate everyone about it. That would have been completely unbalanced and self-regarding. There has to be a balance to it and sometimes the recipient does just have to grow a spine and get over their distaste and sense of being offended - often because they are quite simply wrong to feel that way with each individual instance. Chile is an endemically racist country and the part I was in especially so, and that needs sorting out, but the suffering of a gringo was and should have been the least of anyone's worries, mine included.

Good points, especially about the "dripping tap". I'd add that there are degrees to this. So your experience of being insulted in Chile was more grating than my experience has been in Japan, and that for all we know, Nadolo's experiences may have been far worse. It may have been soul destroying.

So that when Lemoentjie says he's had his name been made fun of and he just laughed it off, it's not really proving anything. He isn't necessarily the thick-skinned tough guy to Nadolo's weakling that he thinks he is. The context of his experience is likely to be vastly different.

[Raggs]

I've no problem with people mispronouncing my name, it's happened a lot, but struggling to say a name because it's not made up of sounds that naturally fit your language is not a problem.

This tweet is not a case of this though. It's not someone struggling to do their best, it's a casual jab.

[New guy]

It's casual racism but more likely born out of rank stupidity rather than any genuine racist intent. If she'd make the same remark when Leicester signed Mamukashvili, would it have gone unnoticed?

We all have a good laugh when Jiffy butchers a french name. But thats ok because they were white I suppose.

[Raggs]

It's casual racism but more likely born out of rank stupidity rather than any genuine racist intent. If she'd make the same remark when Leicester signed Mamukashvili, would it have gone unnoticed?

We all have a good laugh when Jiffy butchers a french name. But thats ok because they were white I suppose.

It's not the same thing. Though given his position, it would be nice if he actually took the time to learn how to say them.

[New guy]

It's casual racism but more likely born out of rank stupidity rather than any genuine racist intent. If she'd make the same remark when Leicester signed Mamukashvili, would it have gone unnoticed?

We all have a good laugh when Jiffy butchers a french name. But thats ok because they were white I suppose.

It's not the same thing. Though given his position, it would be nice if he actually took the time to learn how to say them.

Agreed. However it's not racist (or xenophobic), just ignorant in my opinion. Same applies to Carol or whatever her name is.

[Woddy]

the odd thing is, neither Nadolo nor Murimurivalu are difficult to pronounce in English.

[Raggs]

We all have a good laugh when Jiffy butchers a french name. But thats ok because they were white I suppose.

It's not the same thing. Though given his position, it would be nice if he actually took the time to learn how to say them.

Agreed. However it's not racist (or xenophobic), just ignorant in my opinion. Same applies to Carol or whatever her name is.

She said it from a position of ignorance, but I believe it's casual racism. Getting the guys name wrong because it's tough to say is one thing. Making a joke about it being hard for her to say, at his expense, rather than her own, is casual racism.

[sockwithaticket]

It's casual racism but more likely born out of rank stupidity rather than any genuine racist intent. If she'd make the same remark when Leicester signed Mamukashvili, would it have gone unnoticed?

We all have a good laugh when Jiffy butchers a french name. But thats ok because they were white I suppose.

Is there a history of Georgian name erasure under colonial rule we should be aware of or are you comparing dragon fruit to cherries?