Official Lions selection, moaning and bitching thread

[JM2K6]

His distribution skills are a real point of difference so eh

They're not when he's not looking where to fucking pass!

I'm not sure what you're complaining about - if the passes aren't hitting the man then sure, but I've not seen that very often.

[Big D]

If it was my choice I would Furlong over Sinkler in my team every day of the week. He is the stronger and more destructive scrummager and gives away the least number of penalties in the scrum. Between Porter and Sinkler is a tighter call but for me Porter is as good a scrummager but adds more around the park and would be my call. Ireland won the battle with England scrum in 6Ns. Fagerson is a beast, a good scrummager and carries the ball aggressively. He, along with the rest of the Scottish front row, gave away the least number of scrum penalties in the 6Ns and he would be on the bench for me to replace Furlong. Sinkler will make a good dirt tracker.

Other way round. The red faced angry one will be the dirt tracker.

Fagerson may end up a dirt tracker, I think most positions are still up in the air. However, set piece will be massive, it has been in the last two SA tours (especially game 1 last time). The two Scottish props, especially since De Villers came into the Scotland camp rarely go backwards and the scrums more often than not are rock solid. Objectively I don't think there is a lot between Fagerson and Sinckler, I'd have had KS in the initial party. Gatland and MacBryde obviously have Fagerson just in front at this very early stage but I wouldn't be overly shocked if Sinckler started a test match.

[Biffer]

If it was my choice I would Furlong over Sinkler in my team every day of the week. He is the stronger and more destructive scrummager and gives away the least number of penalties in the scrum. Between Porter and Sinkler is a tighter call but for me Porter is as good a scrummager but adds more around the park and would be my call. Ireland won the battle with England scrum in 6Ns. Fagerson is a beast, a good scrummager and carries the ball aggressively. He, along with the rest of the Scottish front row, gave away the least number of scrum penalties in the 6Ns and he would be on the bench for me to replace Furlong. Sinkler will make a good dirt tracker.

Other way round. The red faced angry one will be the dirt tracker.

Fagerson may end up a dirt tracker, I think most positions are still up in the air. However, set piece will be massive, it has been in the last two SA tours (especially game 1 last time). The two Scottish props, especially since De Villers came into the Scotland camp rarely go backwards and the scrums more often than not are rock solid. Objectively I don't think there is a lot between Fagerson and Sinckler, I'd have had KS in the initial party. Gatland and MacBryde obviously have Fagerson just in front at this very early stage but I wouldn't be overly shocked if Sinckler started a test match.

Pretty sure they'll both play a part in the test series at some point.

[dpedin]

Other way round. The red faced angry one will be the dirt tracker.

Fagerson may end up a dirt tracker, I think most positions are still up in the air. However, set piece will be massive, it has been in the last two SA tours (especially game 1 last time). The two Scottish props, especially since De Villers came into the Scotland camp rarely go backwards and the scrums more often than not are rock solid. Objectively I don't think there is a lot between Fagerson and Sinckler, I'd have had KS in the initial party. Gatland and MacBryde obviously have Fagerson just in front at this very early stage but I wouldn't be overly shocked if Sinckler started a test match.

Pretty sure they'll both play a part in the test series at some point.

I'm the opposite - I don't think many positions are up in the air. I think the team for the first test is almost already picked with only a one or two positions up in the air, the squad was picked specifically with the gameplan, tactics and opposition in mind. Whilst we have our own views on the coaching staff they are nothing if not very detailed and very well prepared and will have worked out exactly what they want to do and the players they need to execute the plans. They also know exactly the strengths and weaknesses of all the players available and if they are capable of doing what is being asked of them and chosen the squad accordingly. They will have been analysing players performances in great depth for months and will have seen exactly what the strengths and weaknesses are in all the TH options available to them. This is why Sinkler was not initially selected in the squad and why he will be the dirt-tracker unless there is an injury to the first two picks.

[Kawazaki]

Guesses for the first test team then?

1. W. Jones
2. Owens
3. Furlong
4. A-W Jones
5. Itoje
6. Beirne
7. Curry
8. Faletau
9. Murray
10. Biggar
11. Williams
12. Henshaw
13. Daly
14. Watson
15. Hogg

16. George
17. Sutherland
18. Fagerson
19. Lawes
20. Tipuric
21. Davies
22. Farrell
23. Rees-Zammit

Possibly a record low number of English.






Josh Adams (Wales)
Bundee Aki (Ireland)
Dan Biggar (Wales)
Elliot Daly (England)
Gareth Davies (Wales)
Owen Farrell (England)
Chris Harris (Scotland)
Robbie Henshaw (Ireland)
Stuart Hogg (Scotland)
Conor Murray (Ireland)
Ali Price (Scotland)
Louis Rees-Zammit (Wales)
Finn Russell (Scotland)
Duhan van der Merwe (Scotland)
Anthony Watson (England)
Liam Williams (Wales)
Forwards:

Tadhg Beirne (Ireland)
Jack Conan (Ireland)
Luke Cowan-Dickie (England)
Tom Curry (England)
Zander Fagerson (Scotland)
Taulupe Faletau (Wales)
Tadhg Furlong (Ireland)
Jamie George (England)
Iain Henderson (Ireland)
Jonny Hill (England)
Maro Itoje (England)
Alun Wyn Jones (Wales) – captain
Wyn Jones (Wales)
Courtney Lawes (England)
Ken Owens (Wales)
Sam Simmonds (England)
Kyle Sinckler (England)
Rory Sutherland (Scotland)
Justin Tipuric (Wales)
Mako Vunipola (England)
Hamish Watson (Scotland)

[Slick]

Too many Scots

[Kawazaki]

Too many Scots

One

[JM2K6]

Fagerson may end up a dirt tracker, I think most positions are still up in the air. However, set piece will be massive, it has been in the last two SA tours (especially game 1 last time). The two Scottish props, especially since De Villers came into the Scotland camp rarely go backwards and the scrums more often than not are rock solid. Objectively I don't think there is a lot between Fagerson and Sinckler, I'd have had KS in the initial party. Gatland and MacBryde obviously have Fagerson just in front at this very early stage but I wouldn't be overly shocked if Sinckler started a test match.

Pretty sure they'll both play a part in the test series at some point.

I'm the opposite - I don't think many positions are up in the air. I think the team for the first test is almost already picked with only a one or two positions up in the air, the squad was picked specifically with the gameplan, tactics and opposition in mind. Whilst we have our own views on the coaching staff they are nothing if not very detailed and very well prepared and will have worked out exactly what they want to do and the players they need to execute the plans. They also know exactly the strengths and weaknesses of all the players available and if they are capable of doing what is being asked of them and chosen the squad accordingly. They will have been analysing players performances in great depth for months and will have seen exactly what the strengths and weaknesses are in all the TH options available to them. This is why Sinkler was not initially selected in the squad and why he will be the dirt-tracker unless there is an injury to the first two picks.

Pretty arrogant if that's the case - these are all excellent players, but form matters, and so do the opposition. The SA squad was only announced a couple of days ago.

Agree on gameplan but there's no gameplan that couldn't work without one of the three tight heads.

[frodder]

Guesses for the first test team then?

1. W. Jones
2. Owens
3. Furlong
4. A-W Jones
5. Itoje
6. Beirne
7. Curry
8. Faletau
9. Murray
10. Biggar
11. Williams
12. Henshaw
13. Daly
14. Watson
15. Hogg

16. George
17. Sutherland
18. Fagerson
19. Lawes
20. Tipuric
21. Davies
22. Farrell
23. Rees-Zammit

Possibly a record low number of English.






Josh Adams (Wales)
Bundee Aki (Ireland)
Dan Biggar (Wales)
Elliot Daly (England)
Gareth Davies (Wales)
Owen Farrell (England)
Chris Harris (Scotland)
Robbie Henshaw (Ireland)
Stuart Hogg (Scotland)
Conor Murray (Ireland)
Ali Price (Scotland)
Louis Rees-Zammit (Wales)
Finn Russell (Scotland)
Duhan van der Merwe (Scotland)
Anthony Watson (England)
Liam Williams (Wales)
Forwards:

Tadhg Beirne (Ireland)
Jack Conan (Ireland)
Luke Cowan-Dickie (England)
Tom Curry (England)
Zander Fagerson (Scotland)
Taulupe Faletau (Wales)
Tadhg Furlong (Ireland)
Jamie George (England)
Iain Henderson (Ireland)
Jonny Hill (England)
Maro Itoje (England)
Alun Wyn Jones (Wales) – captain
Wyn Jones (Wales)
Courtney Lawes (England)
Ken Owens (Wales)
Sam Simmonds (England)
Kyle Sinckler (England)
Rory Sutherland (Scotland)
Justin Tipuric (Wales)
Mako Vunipola (England)
Hamish Watson (Scotland)

Daly? Are the options that shite

[Kawazaki]

Guesses for the first test team then?

1. W. Jones
2. Owens
3. Furlong
4. A-W Jones
5. Itoje
6. Beirne
7. Curry
8. Faletau
9. Murray
10. Biggar
11. Williams
12. Henshaw
13. Daly
14. Watson
15. Hogg

16. George
17. Sutherland
18. Fagerson
19. Lawes
20. Tipuric
21. Davies
22. Farrell
23. Rees-Zammit

Possibly a record low number of English.






Josh Adams (Wales)
Bundee Aki (Ireland)
Dan Biggar (Wales)
Elliot Daly (England)
Gareth Davies (Wales)
Owen Farrell (England)
Chris Harris (Scotland)
Robbie Henshaw (Ireland)
Stuart Hogg (Scotland)
Conor Murray (Ireland)
Ali Price (Scotland)
Louis Rees-Zammit (Wales)
Finn Russell (Scotland)
Duhan van der Merwe (Scotland)
Anthony Watson (England)
Liam Williams (Wales)
Forwards:

Tadhg Beirne (Ireland)
Jack Conan (Ireland)
Luke Cowan-Dickie (England)
Tom Curry (England)
Zander Fagerson (Scotland)
Taulupe Faletau (Wales)
Tadhg Furlong (Ireland)
Jamie George (England)
Iain Henderson (Ireland)
Jonny Hill (England)
Maro Itoje (England)
Alun Wyn Jones (Wales) – captain
Wyn Jones (Wales)
Courtney Lawes (England)
Ken Owens (Wales)
Sam Simmonds (England)
Kyle Sinckler (England)
Rory Sutherland (Scotland)
Justin Tipuric (Wales)
Mako Vunipola (England)
Hamish Watson (Scotland)

Daly? Are the options that shite

He's actually been very good at 13. I was wrong about him years ago, I thought he'd be brilliant at 15 but he's a 13. Plus he can kick the ball miles for goal although first test is at sea level.

[Woddy]

1. W Jones
2. Welsh one
3. Fagerson
4. A-W Jones [should be Grey imo]
5. Itoje
6. Beirne
7. Curry
8. Faletau
9. Murray
10. Biggar
11. Watson
12. Henshaw
13. Daly [I’d not play him, but think he’s Gatland’s Plan X]
14. VdM
15. Hogg

16. Sutherland
17. George
18. Furlong
19. Henderson
20. Tipuric
21. Russell
22. Harris [defensive back-up]
23. Williams

[Slick]

I wouldn’t be disappointed with Daly at 13, I think he’s a cracking player who has been badly used and abused by Eddie.

But I think Harris has been picked for a very specific reason and will start

[Yr Alban]

I wouldn’t be disappointed with Daly at 13, I think he’s a cracking player who has been badly used and abused by Eddie.

But I think Harris has been picked for a very specific reason and will start

Harris has been defying the odds and predictions all year, so I wouldn’t be surprised to see him start. Would create the same howls of outrage that we had from Scotland fans when he started keeping Jones out of the team.

Hogg is the only Scot I’m confident will start, though I maintain Watson deserves to start at 7 ahead of Curry. Literally couldn’t have done any more to stake his claim.

[JM2K6]

I wouldn’t be disappointed with Daly at 13, I think he’s a cracking player who has been badly used and abused by Eddie.

But I think Harris has been picked for a very specific reason and will start

The reason might be he'd make a great dirt tracker - I would say Aki and Henshaw have also been picked for very specific reasons!

We will know soon enough what his first team is anyway.

[Openside]

Too many Scots

One

WHOOSH


and Daly unless he has looked under a rock and found some International form shouldn't be anywhere near the team, I am amazed he is even going...

[ASMO]

I wouldn’t be disappointed with Daly at 13, I think he’s a cracking player who has been badly used and abused by Eddie.

But I think Harris has been picked for a very specific reason and will start

Harris has been defying the odds and predictions all year, so I wouldn’t be surprised to see him start. Would create the same howls of outrage that we had from Scotland fans when he started keeping Jones out of the team.

Hogg is the only Scot I’m confident will start, though I maintain Watson deserves to start at 7 ahead of Curry. Literally couldn’t have done any more to stake his claim.

I can see your point but i honestly think Curry is now the best in the world at 7, he has an all court game that few others do.
Him, Watson and Itoje for me are the only nailed on English starters in the test squad.

[JM2K6]

I wouldn’t be disappointed with Daly at 13, I think he’s a cracking player who has been badly used and abused by Eddie.

But I think Harris has been picked for a very specific reason and will start

Harris has been defying the odds and predictions all year, so I wouldn’t be surprised to see him start. Would create the same howls of outrage that we had from Scotland fans when he started keeping Jones out of the team.

Hogg is the only Scot I’m confident will start, though I maintain Watson deserves to start at 7 ahead of Curry. Literally couldn’t have done any more to stake his claim.

I can see your point but i honestly think Curry is now the best in the world at 7, he has an all court game that few others do.
Him, Watson and Itoje for me are the only nailed on English starters in the test squad.

I don't think any of them are nailed on.

Hamish Watson's form was better this 6N but it's fair to say Curry wasn't exactly bad and he has been magnificent for a few seasons in a row. In an ideal world both would get the opportunity to push their claim for the starting spot. It's possible Gatland will move Curry to 6 to accomodate both but it seems likely one of Beirne/Itoje/Lawes will be at 6.

Anthony Watson is excellent but there's stiff competition. He won't be fullback unless Hogg breaks, so he's up against some quality options on the wing.

Itoje could easily lose out given his discipline, but would be the biggest surprise of the 3 to me.

[Yr Alban]

Harris has been defying the odds and predictions all year, so I wouldn’t be surprised to see him start. Would create the same howls of outrage that we had from Scotland fans when he started keeping Jones out of the team.

Hogg is the only Scot I’m confident will start, though I maintain Watson deserves to start at 7 ahead of Curry. Literally couldn’t have done any more to stake his claim.

I can see your point but i honestly think Curry is now the best in the world at 7, he has an all court game that few others do.
Him, Watson and Itoje for me are the only nailed on English starters in the test squad.

I don't think any of them are nailed on.

Hamish Watson's form was better this 6N but it's fair to say Curry wasn't exactly bad and he has been magnificent for a few seasons in a row. In an ideal world both would get the opportunity to push their claim for the starting spot. It's possible Gatland will move Curry to 6 to accomodate both but it seems likely one of Beirne/Itoje/Lawes will be at 6.

Anthony Watson is excellent but there's stiff competition. He won't be fullback unless Hogg breaks, so he's up against some quality options on the wing.

Itoje could easily lose out given his discipline, but would be the biggest surprise of the 3 to me.

Curry’s wasn’t bad, but Watson outshone him in their head to head match and beat him in every metric measured by the 6N. If Curry starts because he shows better form on tour, that’s entirely fine. If he starts for any other reason, it’s not. (We’ll never know of course).

[JM2K6]

I can see your point but i honestly think Curry is now the best in the world at 7, he has an all court game that few others do.
Him, Watson and Itoje for me are the only nailed on English starters in the test squad.

I don't think any of them are nailed on.

Hamish Watson's form was better this 6N but it's fair to say Curry wasn't exactly bad and he has been magnificent for a few seasons in a row. In an ideal world both would get the opportunity to push their claim for the starting spot. It's possible Gatland will move Curry to 6 to accomodate both but it seems likely one of Beirne/Itoje/Lawes will be at 6.

Anthony Watson is excellent but there's stiff competition. He won't be fullback unless Hogg breaks, so he's up against some quality options on the wing.

Itoje could easily lose out given his discipline, but would be the biggest surprise of the 3 to me.

Curry’s wasn’t bad, but Watson outshone him in their head to head match and beat him in every metric measured by the 6N. If Curry starts because he shows better form on tour, that’s entirely fine. If he starts for any other reason, it’s not. (We’ll never know of course).

It's very weird that we're supposed to take the 6N as the be all and end all.

Curry might start because of his performances under pressure against the best teams in the world over a period of years. Curry might start because he's a lineout option. Curry might start because of his weight of tackling. I very much doubt that Gatland is going to pick a first XV based on their 6N statistics alone.

Basically, if he starts and he's not been awful on tour, that's fine. Form gets you on the plane. It's asinine to ignore the claims of one of the best in the world over the last few years on the back of England's poor couple of weeks.

Likewise, it's fine if Watson starts.

[Jock42]

Liam Williams; Josh Adams, Robbie Henshaw, Bundee Aki, Duhan van der Merwe; Dan Biggar, Conor Murray; Rory Sutherland, Ken Owens, Zander Fagerson, Iain Henderson, Alun Wyn Jones (captain), Tadhg Beirne, Hamish Watson, Jack Conan.

Replacements: Jamie George, Wyn Jones, Tadhg Furlong, Courtney Lawes, Taulupe Faletau, Ali Price, Owen Farrell, Anthony Watson.

Team v Japan is out

[Slick]

Liam Williams; Josh Adams, Robbie Henshaw, Bundee Aki, Duhan van der Merwe; Dan Biggar, Conor Murray; Rory Sutherland, Ken Owens, Zander Fagerson, Iain Henderson, Alun Wyn Jones (captain), Tadhg Beirne, Hamish Watson, Jack Conan.

Replacements: Jamie George, Wyn Jones, Tadhg Furlong, Courtney Lawes, Taulupe Faletau, Ali Price, Owen Farrell, Anthony Watson.

Team v Japan is out

Decent team that. Must be saving Fin for the tests

[Big D]

Liam Williams; Josh Adams, Robbie Henshaw, Bundee Aki, Duhan van der Merwe; Dan Biggar, Conor Murray; Rory Sutherland, Ken Owens, Zander Fagerson, Iain Henderson, Alun Wyn Jones (captain), Tadhg Beirne, Hamish Watson, Jack Conan.

Replacements: Jamie George, Wyn Jones, Tadhg Furlong, Courtney Lawes, Taulupe Faletau, Ali Price, Owen Farrell, Anthony Watson.

Team v Japan is out

Sensible line up really. All starters have been with the squad since day 1 and Sutherland needs game time in his legs. Will be his first game since France so expecting a little rust although he looks in good nick in the videos.

[SaintK]

Liam Williams; Josh Adams, Robbie Henshaw, Bundee Aki, Duhan van der Merwe; Dan Biggar, Conor Murray; Rory Sutherland, Ken Owens, Zander Fagerson, Iain Henderson, Alun Wyn Jones (captain), Tadhg Beirne, Hamish Watson, Jack Conan.

Replacements: Jamie George, Wyn Jones, Tadhg Furlong, Courtney Lawes, Taulupe Faletau, Ali Price, Owen Farrell, Anthony Watson.

Team v Japan is out

Decent team that. Must be saving Fin for the dirt trackers

Fixed
Though to be fair he did play for Racing on Saturday as well!

[westport]

Liam Williams; Josh Adams, Robbie Henshaw, Bundee Aki, Duhan van der Merwe; Dan Biggar, Conor Murray; Rory Sutherland, Ken Owens, Zander Fagerson, Iain Henderson, Alun Wyn Jones (captain), Tadhg Beirne, Hamish Watson, Jack Conan.

Replacements: Jamie George, Wyn Jones, Tadhg Furlong, Courtney Lawes, Taulupe Faletau, Ali Price, Owen Farrell, Anthony Watson.

Team v Japan is out

Decent team that. Must be saving Fin for the tests

He and the Brizzel and Sale guys only joined after the weekend games.

[walletoraccess]

I will be there , but in these covid times I will only nod my head to show approval followed by a gentle applause

[assfly]

Too many poms for my liking.

[SaintK]

Liam Williams; Josh Adams, Robbie Henshaw, Bundee Aki, Duhan van der Merwe; Dan Biggar, Conor Murray; Rory Sutherland, Ken Owens, Zander Fagerson, Iain Henderson, Alun Wyn Jones (captain), Tadhg Beirne, Hamish Watson, Jack Conan.

Replacements: Jamie George, Wyn Jones, Tadhg Furlong, Courtney Lawes, Taulupe Faletau, Ali Price, Owen Farrell, Anthony Watson.

Team v Japan is out

Decent team that. Must be saving Fin for the tests

He and the Brizzel and Sale guys only joined after the weekend games.

As well as the Sarries contingent. Two of whom go straight on to the bench

[SaintK]

Liam Williams; Josh Adams, Robbie Henshaw, Bundee Aki, Duhan van der Merwe; Dan Biggar, Conor Murray; Rory Sutherland, Ken Owens, Zander Fagerson, Iain Henderson, Alun Wyn Jones (captain), Tadhg Beirne, Hamish Watson, Jack Conan.

Replacements: Jamie George, Wyn Jones, Tadhg Furlong, Courtney Lawes, Taulupe Faletau, Ali Price, Owen Farrell, Anthony Watson.

Team v Japan is out

Decent team that. Must be saving Fin for the tests

He and the Brizzel and Sale guys only joined after the weekend games.

Injury worry about Russell

.........the cautious approach Gatland is taking with Finn Russell whom he revealed has an injury but has been training since he linked up with the squad in recent days following the completion of his club season with Racing after their elimination from the Top 14 title race at the semi-final stage.

[GogLais]

Decent team that. Must be saving Fin for the tests

He and the Brizzel and Sale guys only joined after the weekend games.

Injury worry about Russell

.........the cautious approach Gatland is taking with Finn Russell whom he revealed has an injury but has been training since he linked up with the squad in recent days following the completion of his club season with Racing after their elimination from the Top 14 title race at the semi-final stage.

I bet Jarrod Evans is awaiting the call.

[SaintK]

He and the Brizzel and Sale guys only joined after the weekend games.

Injury worry about Russell

.........the cautious approach Gatland is taking with Finn Russell whom he revealed has an injury but has been training since he linked up with the squad in recent days following the completion of his club season with Racing after their elimination from the Top 14 title race at the semi-final stage.

I bet Jarrod Evans is awaiting the call.

George Ford already had the call and on standby!

[GogLais]

Injury worry about Russell

I bet Jarrod Evans is awaiting the call.

George Ford already had the call and on standby!

Boringly sensible!

[SaintK]

I bet Jarrod Evans is awaiting the call.

George Ford already had the call and on standby!

Boringly sensible!

Sorry, I just made it up! But it's probably correct.

[SaintK]

Sorry my Jockish friends but Watson has been withdrawn from Saturday's match with concussion.
Not a great start to his Lions career, poor bloke
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/57582450

[Kawazaki]

One for the plethora of Farrell haters in here...

[JM2K6]

I don't think anyone's ever denied he's very good off the pitch.

We just wish he'd stay there.

[Kawazaki]

Yes, I can imagine the best players in England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales voting for a non-player to head up the players leadership group.

[JM2K6]

Imagine missing a joke by that much


He's on tour. He's one of the most experienced players there. He's undeniably good at the non match day stuff, raising standards in training, keeping people focused, etc. It's not a surprise he's a popular choice to be part of the leadership group.

It says little about whether he should be playing.

[Kawazaki]

Imagine missing a joke by that much


He's on tour. He's one of the most experienced players there. He's undeniably good at the non match day stuff, raising standards in training, keeping people focused, etc. It's not a surprise he's a popular choice to be part of the leadership group.

It says little about whether he should be playing.

You think players judge leadership by what happens off the pitch? I mean, keep doubling down by all means and reveal your hubris. It makes me laugh.

[JM2K6]

Imagine missing a joke by that much


He's on tour. He's one of the most experienced players there. He's undeniably good at the non match day stuff, raising standards in training, keeping people focused, etc. It's not a surprise he's a popular choice to be part of the leadership group.

It says little about whether he should be playing.

You think players judge leadership by what happens off the pitch? I mean, keep doubling down by all means and reveal your hubris. It makes me laugh.

What do you think the "leadership group" entails exactly? A huge part of it is off the field stuff. Especially on a Lions tour, where there's no way someone will play the majority of matches. The actual matches are only a part of it.

This isn't a criticism - you don't need to be so hilariously sensitive about Farrell. The players spend a hell of a lot more time together than just the matches, and the leadership group will have a big role to play.

Whether Farrell should play the tests is down to whether he plays well. For someone who gets very very upset at the idea that Ben Youngs gets picked because of "leadership and experience", noting that his form is often bad (see also Mike Tindall), you're really very inconsistent on this. Farrell's recent form for England has not been good at all so he is fortunate to be touring - but he's on tour now so it's no surprise that the things he seemingly does very well regardless of his form are recognised.

[JM2K6]

For example, here's what Jamie George talked about re: Farrell's leadership at the World Cup:

“He has been a leader since I have known him at 14,” says England hooker Jamie George, who also plays with Farrell at Saracens. “Back then, it was probably a lot more shouting because of frustration more than anything but now I think he has just developed a huge amount. As a leader, I can’t speak highly enough of him.

“He’s the sort of person you want to follow. He leads from the front but at the same time, the big thing is that he is a person you can trust because you know first of all that he is probably the best at it in terms of his rugby ability but also the amount of tape that he watches.

“You know for a fact that the messages that he is giving you, he has been thinking over and over again. He is very good at delivering a theme and messages that build up nicely throughout the week.”

Farrell leads what England call their ‘captain’s meeting’ every Friday, on the eve of games.

None of the coaches come into the room, players only. Sometimes the meetings are a few minutes long, other times they can run for more than half an hour. Either way, Farrell invariably hits the right note.

“He just asks us how we are feeling and if anyone has anything to say,” explains George. “Often people will get something off their chest if they are thinking about the game and then he says his bit and without fail you could hear a pin drop.

“Everyone is hanging on every word he that he says. It is very inspirational without tearing the roof down because that is probably not what is needed but he has a very good feel of what the team needs and what messages he needs to deliver.”

Maro Itoje and Courtney Lawes often speak up in the captain’s meetings too, with Farrell encouraging others to voice their thoughts.

“I think in Owen’s mind it’s quite nice to hear from people who haven’t been speaking, who haven’t got a huge leadership role in the team,” says George. “He often draws on their feelings and experiences and sees how they’re feeling.

“It’s not shouting and screaming – you are able to get your head down to sleep after it. No one is crying in there… oh, I don’t know, I might do this week! He gets that balance quite nice and it sets the tone for the build-up.

“Because Owen talks a lot about how the build-up starts through the week but it also starts from the minute you wake up on the Saturday – the image you give off to the people around you, even in the way you walk to breakfast.

“You are always constantly giving off a message to other people about what your mindset is and how you are feeling.”

It is no surprise that on a Lions tour where every player is quality, where every player will play a few games, and where the players are asked specifically about a leadership group to carry the Lions through the tour, a guy with immense experience of Lions tours and captaincy who by all accounts is great at setting standards and providing leadership throughout the week is a popular vote for the leadership group.

It just doesn't mean the players think he should start the Tests. Totally different story.