The Training Thread - all aspects of fitness and health

[Joost]

New bored, same old thread :)

How’s home training going?

[Nols]

It's still happening, which is about the most exciting thing I can say about it.

[Jim Lahey]

Gyms are opening here on 10th.
I’ve really enjoyed the cycling, and less so the running. But I’m keen to start building a bit of lower body strength again and get the shoulder mobile again for the new season.

[HighKingLeinster]

Any Irishers know a decent place to get 1 inch plates? Lot of stock issues at the moment that will hopefully diminish given gyms are open now but seems that a lot of places favour Olympic plates

[Nols]

Nice sig, Jim.

HKL, try all the usual places, and scour for online retailers. Most are completely sold out and there's a huge over demand on the resupply, so it's very hard to find anything.

I got some in Decathlon at the start of lockdown, but they're sold out since then. Try Elvery's, random fitness shops in shopping centres, D8Fitness on Cork street (although they tend to do whole sale to gyms, so not much 1" stuff), eBay, gumtree etc.

Might get lucky with second hand stuff once gyms reopen and people look to make back some of the cost of their weights by selling them on.

[HighKingLeinster]

cheers Nols,

The 2nd hand suggestion is a good idea. May hold fire (assuming i find any stock) for a while to see if i can pick some stuff up on the cheap

[Nols]

You actually live fairly close to my folks and there's a pile of unused 1" plates and bars taking up space there!

Been meaning to sell them for cash for years, got them for my 18th or something, but since lockdown I've decided to keep them for when I eventually have a place with a garage. I'm never being caught out without gym access again.

[Joost]

Still loving lockdown KB work, going to try and meet the snatch test standard at some point in July (100 snatches in 5 minutes with a 24kg) - fairly confident of hitting that and feels like a good conditioning standard.

As it’s a new thread, time for a marker on my strength standards (taking an educated guess re the barbell ones, obviously!):

Men’s Standards
Squat Movement

1. Proper Form in the Goblet Squat
2. Goblet Squat: 24K x 10
3. Double KB Front Squat: 32K x 10
4. Bodyweight Back Squat
5. Bodyweight Front Squat
6. Bodyweight Back Squat x 15
7. Bodyweight Overhead Squat x 15

Press Movement
1. Push Ups x 10
2. One Arm KB Press: 24K x 5 per Side
3. Double KB Press: 32K x 5
4. Bench Press: Bodyweight - my pressing is awful!
5. One Arm Overhead Press: ½ Bodyweight
6. Bench Press: Bodyweight x 15
7. Two Arm KB Press: Bodyweight

Hip Hinge Movement

1. Hip Hinge with Proper Form (From stand, floor and loaded)
2. Kettlebell Swing: 24K x 20 (Proper Form)
3. Double Kettlebell Clean: 32K x 10
4. Barbell Clean: Bodyweight
5. Barbell Deadlift: Double Bodyweight
6. Barbell Snatch: Bodyweight
7. Barbell Deadlift 2.5 x Bodyweight

Pull Movement
1. Batwings, thumbs in armpits, 16K x 10 seconds
2. Bodyweight Row on Rings/TRX x 20
3. Bodyweight Row, feet elevated, x 10
4. Chin Ups x 5
5. Pull Ups x 8-10
6. Pull Ups x 15 - finally managed this last week, a new PB! 8-)
7. Weighted Pull Up with 48

[Nols]

I hate those standards. Ranking something as technical as a snatch in the same progression branch as DL is just daft. They're not the same. Similarly with back squat to OH squat.

I can smash 15xBW on squats, but don't have to mobility or technique for OH work.
Again, progressing from 15xBW pull ups to +48kg is nuts, especially for a light person. There should be at least 2 further stages between those.

[Joost]

They’re a bit of a mish-mash of different standards, I agree and aren’t particularly linear in-terms of the exercises or jumps in standard.

Believe level 7 is a famous US track and field coach’s strength requirements for a college level thrower (ie f’ing strong!)

[Nols]

I prefer standards that are more specific to specialist sports. Powerlifting numbers for "static" strength; BW OHP, 1.5BW bench, 2BW squat, 2.5BW DL is a random benchmark I like, albeit fairly advanced. Nothing about technical dynamic movements, which is good cuz crap at them.

[Jim Lahey]

cheers Nols,

The 2nd hand suggestion is a good idea. May hold fire (assuming i find any stock) for a while to see if i can pick some stuff up on the cheap

Quality pic.
I was going to go for Jacko and Olding together on their way into court but got feared out in case it ruffled a few feathers.
But you went there in glorious fashion

[Joost]

I prefer standards that are more specific to specialist sports. Powerlifting numbers for "static" strength; BW OHP, 1.5BW bench, 2BW squat, 2.5BW DL is a random benchmark I like, albeit fairly advanced. Nothing about technical dynamic movements, which is good cuz crap at them.

I’m in no danger of hitting any of those, ever! My best chance would probably be to saw something off and go down a few weight categories :(

[Nols]

Immediately before lockdown I hit 0.83xBW OHP, 1.25xBW bench, 1.77xBW squat, and 2.22xBW DL. All lifetime PRs, except DL which was about 9 months ago where I got 2.35.

Those numbers are (were) in my sights, but still a good way to go.

[Nols]

I'll also take this opportunity to reiterate how much I hate Bulgarian split squats.

[Matt Handincock]

Anyone got some basic stretches or body weight exercises for helping improve my sore back? I wrenched it lifting a heavy weight right after jumping out of my bed a month ago. I assume it’s a muscle thing. Arranged physio appointment today. Sore standing up and sitting down for am 5/10 minutes.

[Nols]

Keep moving gently. Swing your arms a good bit while walking.

Stretch the shit out of your hips. Frog stretch, Cossack squat, groins, hip flexors, etc.

[Matt Handincock]

Ok, thanks Nols. Will give that a go.

[Newportblue]

Still loving lockdown KB work, going to try and meet the snatch test standard at some point in July (100 snatches in 5 minutes with a 24kg) - fairly confident of hitting that and feels like a good conditioning standard.

As it’s a new thread, time for a marker on my strength standards (taking an educated guess re the barbell ones, obviously!):

Men’s Standards
Squat Movement

1. Proper Form in the Goblet Squat
2. Goblet Squat: 24K x 10
3. Double KB Front Squat: 32K x 10
4. Bodyweight Back Squat
5. Bodyweight Front Squat
6. Bodyweight Back Squat x 15
7. Bodyweight Overhead Squat x 15

Press Movement
1. Push Ups x 10
2. One Arm KB Press: 24K x 5 per Side
3. Double KB Press: 32K x 5
4. Bench Press: Bodyweight - my pressing is awful!
5. One Arm Overhead Press: ½ Bodyweight
6. Bench Press: Bodyweight x 15
7. Two Arm KB Press: Bodyweight

Hip Hinge Movement

1. Hip Hinge with Proper Form (From stand, floor and loaded)
2. Kettlebell Swing: 24K x 20 (Proper Form)
3. Double Kettlebell Clean: 32K x 10
4. Barbell Clean: Bodyweight
5. Barbell Deadlift: Double Bodyweight
6. Barbell Snatch: Bodyweight
7. Barbell Deadlift 2.5 x Bodyweight

Pull Movement
1. Batwings, thumbs in armpits, 16K x 10 seconds
2. Bodyweight Row on Rings/TRX x 20
3. Bodyweight Row, feet elevated, x 10
4. Chin Ups x 5
5. Pull Ups x 8-10
6. Pull Ups x 15 - finally managed this last week, a new PB! 8-)
7. Weighted Pull Up with 48

I found the new site. Pretty much only post on this fred anyway.

Out of the exercises I actually do on that list I’m at 6 for both squat and press. 7 for hinge. 6 for pull, never got all out on pull ups. Think my max is plus 30kg.

[Jim Lahey]

Finally broke the 21 min barrier with a 20.46 5km this morning.

That is definitely the end of my running for time phase. While its nice to have a new PB, you just feel like shit after a tough run in a way you don’t after weights, cycling, 5-a-side or rugby!

[Nols]

Serious time, Jim.
How much do you weigh, and do you have a heart rate monitor?

If I run an anyway reasonable time, my HR is consistently above 170, getting above 180 going up hills etc. When I compare to friends and family on Strava (who are waaayyy fitter, TBF), they're peaking in the 160s for better times.

Is it just because I weigh 20-30kg more than them, or do I simply need to invest more time into cardiovascular training?

I did get sub-24 the other day, which was nice. Ended up just edging past another guy on a hill about 3.5km in, where I usually fade and struggle. Would have been awkward to run beside him for ages, so it encouraged me to push it just a tiny bit harder. Got my through the toughest part when normally I'd have dipped off. All my best parkrun times have been the same, get into a scrap with someone going marginally faster and I push much harder than I would by myself.

[Jim Lahey]

I’m back up to 99.5kg this morning pre-run, up from 95kg after a big weight loss push ending about 3 weeks ago

Average HR for the run was 165. I was pretty broken afterwards. Did it on an empty stomach as well so body was not in a good place!

Realistically I’ll never regularly weigh less than 93-96kg as I’ve a big frame and am 6”2, so I might flirt with 20mins at some point if I ever feel the need to try running for time again but I’m probably going to focus on sprint work and weights once the gyms re-open.

There’s no point competing with those skinny feckers!

[Nols]

JFC you're 10kg heavier than me.

I did 23:45 the other day and average HR was 172, peaked at 185, and I'm lighter.
I need to hop on a bike or something when gyms open up again and just get my base "fitness" level up.

I've tried a few runs where I keep my HR below say 165, but I have to go so slow in places that it's tedious.


A guy I used to work with posted 16:40 or so the other week. He's probably 6'2 and not a complete beanpole. I'm sure I'm heavier, because I'm less lean and have more muscle mass, but he's not a featherweight. Think he has a long history of running and rowing, so his aerobic capacity is excellent.

[Jim Lahey]

It probably doesn’t fall into the trendy HIIT agenda but I spent March and April doing around 4x slow 8km runs a week (around 5.30min/km pace) but trying to keep my HR below 140. Before then I would have struggled to hit below 23.30 going all out. But the slow runs built up the cardio base, then with the added weight loss and a lot of time spent doing 20-30km sprints on the bike in May brought my time down.

It can be boring but if you just get into a routine of doing it 4-5 days a week and view it as time you are taking to catch up on podcasts/audiobooks then it aint so bad. Plus there’s the “slight” entertainment of competing with yourself to keep the HR below your target!

Well it worked for me anyway! Would recommend it if you can create enough time for it. I was getting up an hour earlier before the chaos with the kids started!

[Margin__Walker]

Found this pretty interesting this week.

Former S&C coach at LI (Andre Quinn) talks at length about training programmes within a pro rugby environment over a decade or so. Recently moved back to Ireland to work in GAA and discusses the different challenges in an amateur environment. Moves on to talk about his testicular cancer diagnosis and relapse and his approach to dealing with that.

https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cH ... ODk0?ep=14

[Nols]

Did my first ever 10km this evening. Set out for a slow run and felt good so just kept going. Nice evening for it.
Kept the HR under 170 and still managed to get just under an hour. Could definitely go a bit faster, but I wasn't trying to bust a gut.

Also did some leg weights earlier in the day, so I suspect I'll be in a wheelchair tomorrow.

[HighKingLeinster]

Lads, landmine barbell shrug any good for traps? I am limited by volume of of plates available so my options are the above or one heavily loaded dumbbell and alternate between arms

[Nols]

Landmine shrugs? Never seen that set-up before. Bar out in front of you, or it's behind with you stradling it?

Ultimately any shrug will work the traps. If you don't have much weight, do higher numbers of reps, add a decent pause at the top. Be really conscious of lifting your shoulders to your ears, so the reps are all about getting a quality conntraction in the muscle, rather than just bouncing a weight around.
Do you have any bands? You can loop that through the DBs/BB and stand on it to add even more resistance.

SA variations will allow you to load the weight more, it'll also add some core stabilisation. Do whatever make the muscles feel like thy're working.

[HighKingLeinster]

Cheers Nols. I have not encountered it before today either. Bar behind you and to one side rather than straddle. I am used to doing shrugs hitting both shoulders at the same time rather than individually but may give it a try

SA variations?

[Nols]

Probably helps control the weight easily. It doesn't swing around at all and you can concentrate on just moving your shoulder up and down.
If you don't have enough weight, do stuff like holding the contraction at the top for a three count etc. Creates loads more time under tension. You'll be surprised how sore it is the next day.

[HighKingLeinster]

Tried the single DB shrugs and not that easy as totally unbalanced by having all the weight on one arm/shoulder

I can do it on the Barbell but dont have quite enough plates to do the level i want. Also, i prefer to use dumbells where possible to ensure both arms/shoulders are getting hit and my dominant shoulder is not carrying more of the load

Guess the answer is buy more plates once they are back in stock

[Nols]

Have you done them while looking in the mirror?
Handy way to make sure both sides look the same. I find that the reps are much more even when I can actually see myself.

This video explains the movement quite well, helps find that optimal muscle contraction. Obviously you won't have access to lots of the equipment at home, but it helped me figure out a how to do a shrug better.

[HighKingLeinster]

Have you done them while looking in the mirror?
Handy way to make sure both sides look the same. I find that the reps are much more even when I can actually see myself.

Room doesnt have much space but may be able to get a mirror to work.

Wont work for bench press though but will just have to make the best of it

[Nols]

I've found the only way to really fix bench form is to record from various weird angle and play it back. Takes a fair bit of effort.

[Nols]

Saturday two weeks before gyms reopen. Fuck me.

[Slick]

Just signed up to a half marathon in 8 weeks… things are going to have to change..

[inactionman]

I've restarted at gym after lockdown and doing a bit of rowing and cycling but much prefer getting in the pool.

I'm trying to find adult swimming lessons - my technique can best be articulated as 'drowning avoidance' and could do with some actual coaching - and really struggling to find anything.

Has anyone had any lessons? I've checked Scottish Swimming and Edinburgh Leisure and can't find a great deal, wondering if it's just a slow restart after covid (fully appreciate that kids' classes need to go first) or whether it's not generally done. Would look at swimming club but I'm not going to be able to dedicate enough time to it.

[Line6 HXFX]

I walk about 9 or 10 miles a day(in big heavy boots) and cycle about 10 miles, up some of the steepest stuff in my area...and boy is there is some steep stuff in my area, (Garnlydan hill in Ebbw Vale is a serious holy fuck experience). .
Seriously not sure I should be doing this at 51 and after a heart attack, but I do love it so.

My diet is still shite though.