Stop voting for fucking Tories

[Ymx]

This thread is such an interesting echo chamber. Ultimate confirmation bias.

The tories agenda is pure evil. Every act has a purely evil backbone. I think Nazi is the comparison.

They are promoted by the overwhelming right wing media base in the UK.

[I like neeps]

This thread is such an interesting echo chamber. Ultimate confirmation bias.

The tories agenda is pure evil. Every act has a purely evil backbone. I think Nazi is the comparison.

They are promoted by the overwhelming right wing media base in the UK.

Literally nobody has said the Tories agenda is evil or compared them to Nazis though have they.

I believe we're currently discussing corruption. The words evil have not appeared.

Classic conflation - people think they're incompetent and corrupt. And somehow that is conflated to evil, Nazis blah blah blah creating a strawman.

[Ymx]

Just tried a search.

search.php?keywords=Nazi+Tory&terms=all ... mit=Search

That wasn’t hard.

[SaintK]

This thread is such an interesting echo chamber. Ultimate confirmation bias.

The tories agenda is pure evil. Every act has a purely evil backbone. I think Nazi is the comparison.

They are promoted by the overwhelming right wing media base in the UK.

Not a quote from me referring to "Nazis" there.
Mate I've been voting for 50 years and only once voted Labour and would be happy to call out a Labour government if they were as serially incompetent and useless and as openly corrupt as this bunch are.
Would be more than happy to see the thread title changed to "UK Political Scum" and have a go at all of them. We are at a competence nadir as far as all the political parties are concerned in this country at present and I despair that it won't get any better as my grandchildren grow up.

[Ymx]

Well perhaps a more balanced thread title might well lead to a more balanced and mature participation. But then again when have any of these political threads had balanced and mature participation. So I wouldn’t bother.

The NZ equiv thread is called Aotearoa politics thread. But could be renamed to Jacinda the magnificent

[Biffer]

This thread is such an interesting echo chamber. Ultimate confirmation bias.

The tories agenda is pure evil. Every act has a purely evil backbone. I think Nazi is the comparison.

They are promoted by the overwhelming right wing media base in the UK.

Not a quote from me referring to "Nazis" there.
Mate I've been voting for 50 years and only once voted Labour and would be happy to call out a Labour government if they were as serially incompetent and useless and as openly corrupt as this bunch are.
Would be more than happy to see the thread title changed to "UK Political Scum" and have a go at all of them. We are at a competence nadir as far as all the political parties are concerned in this country at present and I despair that it won't get any better as my grandchildren grow up.

I’m the same, been voting more than thirty years and never voted Labour except once in a local council election when the guy was the only to make an effort to knock on the door. So never in a general election or Scottish Parliament election. But I’ve seen friends who I always considered moderate Tories get wrapped up in this bullshit that’s being peddled by the far right of the party and go to this anti immigrant, anti big govt us style crap, complete abuse of what rights are and should be, anti europe lunacy, as they’ve followed their party into the depths. And this attempt to make socialist a dirty word, pretending it means communist and making like you’re too fucking thick to know the difference, again US style moronic nonsense, god it gets my goat.

[I like neeps]

Just tried a search.

search.php?keywords=Nazi+Tory&terms=all ... mit=Search

That wasn’t hard.

One poster compared them to the Nazis and the other posts are calling them out for doing so. Hardly a gotcha.

If you want balance you could try starting a balanced conversation rather than you know going immediately to extremes.

[SaintK]

This thread is such an interesting echo chamber. Ultimate confirmation bias.

The tories agenda is pure evil. Every act has a purely evil backbone. I think Nazi is the comparison.

They are promoted by the overwhelming right wing media base in the UK.

Not a quote from me referring to "Nazis" there.
Mate I've been voting for 50 years and only once voted Labour and would be happy to call out a Labour government if they were as serially incompetent and useless and as openly corrupt as this bunch are.
Would be more than happy to see the thread title changed to "UK Political Scum" and have a go at all of them. We are at a competence nadir as far as all the political parties are concerned in this country at present and I despair that it won't get any better as my grandchildren grow up.

I’m the same, been voting more than thirty years and never voted Labour except once in a local council election when the guy was the only to make an effort to knock on the door. So never in a general election or Scottish Parliament election. But I’ve seen friends who I always considered moderate Tories get wrapped up in this bullshit that’s being peddled by the far right of the party and go to this anti immigrant, anti big govt us style crap, complete abuse of what rights are and should be, anti europe lunacy, as they’ve followed their party into the depths. And this attempt to make socialist a dirty word, pretending it means communist and making like you’re too fucking thick to know the difference, again US style moronic nonsense, god it gets my goat.

Doesn't help that they are led by a repugnant, morally bankrupt cunt of a human being!

[Biffer]

Not a quote from me referring to "Nazis" there.
Mate I've been voting for 50 years and only once voted Labour and would be happy to call out a Labour government if they were as serially incompetent and useless and as openly corrupt as this bunch are.
Would be more than happy to see the thread title changed to "UK Political Scum" and have a go at all of them. We are at a competence nadir as far as all the political parties are concerned in this country at present and I despair that it won't get any better as my grandchildren grow up.

I’m the same, been voting more than thirty years and never voted Labour except once in a local council election when the guy was the only to make an effort to knock on the door. So never in a general election or Scottish Parliament election. But I’ve seen friends who I always considered moderate Tories get wrapped up in this bullshit that’s being peddled by the far right of the party and go to this anti immigrant, anti big govt us style crap, complete abuse of what rights are and should be, anti europe lunacy, as they’ve followed their party into the depths. And this attempt to make socialist a dirty word, pretending it means communist and making like you’re too fucking thick to know the difference, again US style moronic nonsense, god it gets my goat.

Doesn't help that they are led by a repugnant, morally bankrupt cunt of a human being!

Yeah, that’s the biggest part of it. The Tories at the moment are led by a shower of dishonest shysters fucks whose only interest is power, and who are, frankly incapable and incompetent. And their supporters try to brush this off with ‘all politicians are arseholes, all of them lie’ as if what’s happening now is comparable to dishonesty in the past, and as if it used to be normal that the kind of rank incompetence shown regularly here used to be rewarded and people kept their jobs, rather than resigning or being fired.

[dpedin]

Not a quote from me referring to "Nazis" there.
Mate I've been voting for 50 years and only once voted Labour and would be happy to call out a Labour government if they were as serially incompetent and useless and as openly corrupt as this bunch are.
Would be more than happy to see the thread title changed to "UK Political Scum" and have a go at all of them. We are at a competence nadir as far as all the political parties are concerned in this country at present and I despair that it won't get any better as my grandchildren grow up.

I’m the same, been voting more than thirty years and never voted Labour except once in a local council election when the guy was the only to make an effort to knock on the door. So never in a general election or Scottish Parliament election. But I’ve seen friends who I always considered moderate Tories get wrapped up in this bullshit that’s being peddled by the far right of the party and go to this anti immigrant, anti big govt us style crap, complete abuse of what rights are and should be, anti europe lunacy, as they’ve followed their party into the depths. And this attempt to make socialist a dirty word, pretending it means communist and making like you’re too fucking thick to know the difference, again US style moronic nonsense, god it gets my goat.

Doesn't help that they are led by a repugnant, morally bankrupt cunt of a human being!

The final shift in the tory party over the last 4-5 years has been hugely significant and worrying. The cleansing of the party when they expelled 21 more 'moderate' senior members of the party in 2019 was, for me, when the tory party made its final shift into the populist, 'son of UKIP' , friend of Trump,Tory party. There had been an internal battle for many years, led by the ERG, amplified since the pig shagger Cameron foolishly announced the EU referendum and was out thought, not difficult, by the likes of Vote Leave, Cummings et al. Many within the tory party tried to avoid the inevitable shift into what we now have - Dominic Grieve springs to mind, even May in her own ineffective way. However by then it was too late, the mad dogs of the Brexit Ultra brigade had taken over. The traditional Tory party that we once knew has gone, it has lost most of its elder statesmen and the gravitas it had has gone and we now have the incompetence of the likes of Raab, Patel and Grayling to name a few. We now have one of the most crooked, incompetent and morally corrupt Gov in modern history. The rest of the world knows this and doesn't trust this Gov either. My view/hope is that they will be found out and the Tory party rescues itself from these bunch of mercenary twats but not before they have done any more irreparable damage to the country.

[I like neeps]

The supermarket shortages are become more and more noticeable. It's funny this isn't really national news. Oh well, paying more for our shopping is worth it to get Brits training up to be HGV drivers and paid more for what's a horrible job.

[robmatic]

I’m the same, been voting more than thirty years and never voted Labour except once in a local council election when the guy was the only to make an effort to knock on the door. So never in a general election or Scottish Parliament election. But I’ve seen friends who I always considered moderate Tories get wrapped up in this bullshit that’s being peddled by the far right of the party and go to this anti immigrant, anti big govt us style crap, complete abuse of what rights are and should be, anti europe lunacy, as they’ve followed their party into the depths. And this attempt to make socialist a dirty word, pretending it means communist and making like you’re too fucking thick to know the difference, again US style moronic nonsense, god it gets my goat.

Doesn't help that they are led by a repugnant, morally bankrupt cunt of a human being!

Yeah, that’s the biggest part of it. The Tories at the moment are led by a shower of dishonest shysters fucks whose only interest is power, and who are, frankly incapable and incompetent. And their supporters try to brush this off with ‘all politicians are arseholes, all of them lie’ as if what’s happening now is comparable to dishonesty in the past, and as if it used to be normal that the kind of rank incompetence shown regularly here used to be rewarded and people kept their jobs, rather than resigning or being fired.

The current Tory cabinet is probably the weakest that I can remember and all of the vaguely competent people have been ditched from the parliamentary party, leaving only headbangers and idiots. However, I reckon they will win the next general election at a canter through a combination of culture war bullshit and the fact that Labour have completely ceded the economic argument to them.

[fishfoodie]

The supermarket shortages are become more and more noticeable. It's funny this isn't really national news. Oh well, paying more for our shopping is worth it to get Brits training up to be HGV drivers and paid more for what's a horrible job.

Has anyone explained where the 700 million to train 100,000 new drivers is going to come from ? (assuming that 100% of those drivers completes the training sucessfully)

Or indeed where the extra trainers, inspectors, & examiners will come from ?

[SaintK]

The supermarket shortages are become more and more noticeable. It's funny this isn't really national news. Oh well, paying more for our shopping is worth it to get Brits training up to be HGV drivers and paid more for what's a horrible job.

Has anyone explained where the 700 million to train 100,000 new drivers is going to come from ? (assuming that 100% of those drivers completes the training sucessfully)

Or indeed where the extra trainers, inspectors, & examiners will come from ?

There is currently a 30,000 backlog for HGV driver tests which will take months to reduce
Kwarteng was doing the interview rounds yesterday saying that UK businesses need to train up more UK drivers.
Yeah, that’ll keep the supply chain going right now
Thick twat

[Sandstorm]

The supermarket shortages are become more and more noticeable. It's funny this isn't really national news. Oh well, paying more for our shopping is worth it to get Brits training up to be HGV drivers and paid more for what's a horrible job.

Has anyone explained where the 700 million to train 100,000 new drivers is going to come from ? (assuming that 100% of those drivers completes the training sucessfully)

Or indeed where the extra trainers, inspectors, & examiners will come from ?

No-one will fail the test under a Tory Govt. Even blind drivers will get their own 44 tonne rig.

Edit: sorry, 52 tonne

[TheNatalShark]

It's always worth noting there was a proclaimed shortage of drivers before 2020, seemingly in the region of 60,000. Now obviously some of that would come from drivers relocating before/in anticipation of brexit, but wasn't really cited so likely immaterial.

Therefore all things being equal it isn't 100k that need to trained to get back to 2019 capacity.

It is simply the government's unwillingness to deviate from "free market will sort it" that might attract negative attention that is causing the issue. I don't have a problem with them not issuing additional visas as temp fix if it would impede willingness of the market to resolve. But market needs the government to provide capacity for them to do so. The problem isn't that great, but needs acknowledgement from a key player to resolve. It would be laughably easy for them to move to create capacity and trumpet a political win of British jobs for British people, and easier still to counter the "100k shortage due to brexit" claim.

But they won't or can't because of idealogy.

[I like neeps]

It's always worth noting there was a proclaimed shortage of drivers before 2020, seemingly in the region of 60,000. Now obviously some of that would come from drivers relocating before/in anticipation of brexit, but wasn't really cited so likely immaterial.

Therefore all things being equal it isn't 100k that need to trained to get back to 2019 capacity.

It is simply the government's unwillingness to deviate from "free market will sort it" that might attract negative attention that is causing the issue. I don't have a problem with them not issuing additional visas as temp fix if it would impede willingness of the market to resolve. But market needs the government to provide capacity for them to do so. The problem isn't that great, but needs acknowledgement from a key player to resolve. It would be laughably easy for them to move to create capacity and trumpet a political win of British jobs for British people, and easier still to counter the "100k shortage due to brexit" claim.

But they won't or can't because of idealogy.

It takes quite a while to train up new drivers though. So it's not that easy.

[Biffer]

It's always worth noting there was a proclaimed shortage of drivers before 2020, seemingly in the region of 60,000. Now obviously some of that would come from drivers relocating before/in anticipation of brexit, but wasn't really cited so likely immaterial.

Therefore all things being equal it isn't 100k that need to trained to get back to 2019 capacity.

It is simply the government's unwillingness to deviate from "free market will sort it" that might attract negative attention that is causing the issue. I don't have a problem with them not issuing additional visas as temp fix if it would impede willingness of the market to resolve. But market needs the government to provide capacity for them to do so. The problem isn't that great, but needs acknowledgement from a key player to resolve. It would be laughably easy for them to move to create capacity and trumpet a political win of British jobs for British people, and easier still to counter the "100k shortage due to brexit" claim.

But they won't or can't because of idealogy.

They genuinely think the free market will fix it. They’ve become so obsessed with this ideology, and utterly embedded in it that they can’t believe there could be any other solution. It’s not conscious denial, it’s genuine fanaticism.

[TheNatalShark]

It takes quite a while to train up new drivers though. So it's not that easy.

I would argue it is the easiest and most cost effective (long term) of practical solutions whilst it can also deliver political benefits.

One of the greatest features of FoM is taking the government and bureaucracy mostly out of the equation. An accelerated visa system will be costly, take time to implement, time to attract participants and encourage the market to sit back and let government continue to U-turn with half arsed solutions when the heat turns on. All whilst not having the political capital (at the moment) to do so.

Compared to the alternatives in the reality we live in, and other holes VoteLeave have dug for us and themselves, I am fairly comfortable ascribing it as easy to sort.

[robmatic]

There are presumably a fair number of HGV licensed folk in the UK who are not presently working in the sector who could be enticed back if the wages/conditions were attractive enough.

[I like neeps]

It takes quite a while to train up new drivers though. So it's not that easy.

I would argue it is the easiest and most cost effective (long term) of practical solutions whilst it can also deliver political benefits.

One of the greatest features of FoM is taking the government and bureaucracy mostly out of the equation. An accelerated visa system will be costly, take time to implement, time to attract participants and encourage the market to sit back and let government continue to U-turn with half arsed solutions when the heat turns on. All whilst not having the political capital (at the moment) to do so.

Compared to the alternatives in the reality we live in, and other holes VoteLeave have dug for us and themselves, I am fairly comfortable ascribing it as easy to sort.

Absolutely agree that we need to train more HGV drivers - it takes around 3-4 months though. It's just quite hard for politicians to gamble Christmas shortages on "this is actually good, the HGV drivers are British". Also it seems that this will drive up prices as we cut off the reliance on cheap labour. Again, politically it's hard to say "this is good guys, hgv drivers are British and getting paid more!". I certainly could be wrong and people might be happy their weekly shop is more expensive because there's upward pressure on wages. I personally think it's okay as I'm comfortable and believe we need to start paying higher wages. But it seems somewhat unlikely it's going to be hugely popular unless your wages are also going up which most well yeah ...won't.

[Ymx]

Who says they’re out of touch

[I like neeps]

There are presumably a fair number of HGV licensed folk in the UK who are not presently working in the sector who could be enticed back if the wages/conditions were attractive enough.

That's true I've been reading about the conditions of rest stops and they are absolutely horrendous. Again, the problem is it takes a long time to build up that infrastructure. And the costs of wages have to be passed on, not sure who is building the roadside infrastructure going to guess the government won't. I personally imagine we'll get to a stage where everything is just that bit more expensive. Not necessarily bad, but how many people enjoy paying more for things for British workers with better conditions. I am going to guess a minority.

[Ymx]

Found this on ONS site

[Ymx]

Not the numbers I was expecting to see.

Huge portion are UK.

UK drivers dropped by about 28k in last period. Or 51k since ‘16 peak.

14k less EU drivers in last year.

[GogLais]

There are presumably a fair number of HGV licensed folk in the UK who are not presently working in the sector who could be enticed back if the wages/conditions were attractive enough.

That's true I've been reading about the conditions of rest stops and they are absolutely horrendous. Again, the problem is it takes a long time to build up that infrastructure. And the costs of wages have to be passed on, not sure who is building the roadside infrastructure going to guess the government won't. I personally imagine we'll get to a stage where everything is just that bit more expensive. Not necessarily bad, but how many people enjoy paying more for things for British workers with better conditions. I am going to guess a minority.

We were told immigrants from poor countries in Eastern Europe were driving down wages weren’t we? Something in the STimes about labour shortages meaning a lot of fruit will be left to rot in the fields. So there will be fewer lorry loads. Clever really.

[Ymx]

Just tried a search.

search.php?keywords=Nazi+Tory&terms=all ... mit=Search

That wasn’t hard.

One poster compared them to the Nazis and the other posts are calling them out for doing so. Hardly a gotcha.

If you want balance you could try starting a balanced conversation rather than you know going immediately to extremes.

So not “literally no one”?!!

the 2 posts immediately proceeding this one of yours when talking about extremes.

Anyway good change to the HGV topic.

[dpedin]

It takes quite a while to train up new drivers though. So it's not that easy.

I would argue it is the easiest and most cost effective (long term) of practical solutions whilst it can also deliver political benefits.

One of the greatest features of FoM is taking the government and bureaucracy mostly out of the equation. An accelerated visa system will be costly, take time to implement, time to attract participants and encourage the market to sit back and let government continue to U-turn with half arsed solutions when the heat turns on. All whilst not having the political capital (at the moment) to do so.

Compared to the alternatives in the reality we live in, and other holes VoteLeave have dug for us and themselves, I am fairly comfortable ascribing it as easy to sort.

Absolutely agree that we need to train more HGV drivers - it takes around 3-4 months though. It's just quite hard for politicians to gamble Christmas shortages on "this is actually good, the HGV drivers are British". Also it seems that this will drive up prices as we cut off the reliance on cheap labour. Again, politically it's hard to say "this is good guys, hgv drivers are British and getting paid more!". I certainly could be wrong and people might be happy their weekly shop is more expensive because there's upward pressure on wages. I personally think it's okay as I'm comfortable and believe we need to start paying higher wages. But it seems somewhat unlikely it's going to be hugely popular unless your wages are also going up which most well yeah ...won't.

It is a bit more complicated than just training the number required to fill the gap. It is a dynamic situation so there will be a training number required each year just to maintain current driver numbers. Not sure what current attrition from the workforce is but 10-15% wouldn't be unusual? From what I have heard about the current age profile of the existing workforce it sounds like there will be further significant attrition due to retirals in next 5-10 years. Then there is a training and testing pipeline issue - I don't know what the current training capacity is but from the sound of things the current pipeline capacity isn't sufficient. Is there an issue then about who trains the new drivers and does this mean taking current drivers off current driving duties to train or to test new drivers? What about examiners? There also seems to be a cost issue - training is expensive and this needs a significant investment from employers, have the capacity to fund and will they if they are seeing higher attrition in a competitive labour market? Then there is the wider labour market - if there are c1 million current vacancies in the labour market then what is the attractiveness of being an HGV driver - salary, conditions, seeing the world - compared to other jobs that offer similar salary? Doesn't sound a very attractive job at the moment!

Given it is a very fragmented and uncontrolled workforce market it will take some time for the free market forces to sort these things out, if it needs a quicker resolution, and it sounds like it does, then we need some serious Gov intervention ... and that doesn't mean the army drivers being sent in to help! Otherwise the market will be driven by who can afford to recruit and retain drivers and that might mean significant societal damage - such as the difficulties for SMEs or in distribution of vials the NHS needs to enable blood tests to be taken. Sounds to me that we need someone to 'fly the plane' on this issue at least for the next 2-3 years?

[fishfoodie]

I would argue it is the easiest and most cost effective (long term) of practical solutions whilst it can also deliver political benefits.

One of the greatest features of FoM is taking the government and bureaucracy mostly out of the equation. An accelerated visa system will be costly, take time to implement, time to attract participants and encourage the market to sit back and let government continue to U-turn with half arsed solutions when the heat turns on. All whilst not having the political capital (at the moment) to do so.

Compared to the alternatives in the reality we live in, and other holes VoteLeave have dug for us and themselves, I am fairly comfortable ascribing it as easy to sort.

Absolutely agree that we need to train more HGV drivers - it takes around 3-4 months though. It's just quite hard for politicians to gamble Christmas shortages on "this is actually good, the HGV drivers are British". Also it seems that this will drive up prices as we cut off the reliance on cheap labour. Again, politically it's hard to say "this is good guys, hgv drivers are British and getting paid more!". I certainly could be wrong and people might be happy their weekly shop is more expensive because there's upward pressure on wages. I personally think it's okay as I'm comfortable and believe we need to start paying higher wages. But it seems somewhat unlikely it's going to be hugely popular unless your wages are also going up which most well yeah ...won't.

It is a bit more complicated than just training the number required to fill the gap. It is a dynamic situation so there will be a training number required each year just to maintain current driver numbers. Not sure what current attrition from the workforce is but 10-15% wouldn't be unusual? From what I have heard about the current age profile of the existing workforce it sounds like there will be further significant attrition due to retirals in next 5-10 years. Then there is a training and testing pipeline issue - I don't know what the current training capacity is but from the sound of things the current pipeline capacity isn't sufficient. Is there an issue then about who trains the new drivers and does this mean taking current drivers off current driving duties to train or to test new drivers? What about examiners? There also seems to be a cost issue - training is expensive and this needs a significant investment from employers, have the capacity to fund and will they if they are seeing higher attrition in a competitive labour market? Then there is the wider labour market - if there are c1 million current vacancies in the labour market then what is the attractiveness of being an HGV driver - salary, conditions, seeing the world - compared to other jobs that offer similar salary? Doesn't sound a very attractive job at the moment!

Given it is a very fragmented and uncontrolled workforce market it will take some time for the free market forces to sort these things out, if it needs a quicker resolution, and it sounds like it does, then we need some serious Gov intervention ... and that doesn't mean the army drivers being sent in to help! Otherwise the market will be driven by who can afford to recruit and retain drivers and that might mean significant societal damage - such as the difficulties for SMEs or in distribution of vials the NHS needs to enable blood tests to be taken. Sounds to me that we need someone to 'fly the plane' on this issue at least for the next 2-3 years?

All this shit you're talking about requires people who are capable of; (a) thinking beyond what is good for them personally, & (b) people who give a shit what happens beyond the next election.

So I think you're shit out of luck !

Platitudes & sound bites are about all anyone can expect from this shower.

[Tichtheid]

Platitudes & sound bites are about all anyone can expect from this shower.

On one level you have to admire the strategic brilliance - they convinced an electorate that an austerity made in Westminster was down to the EU.
They're on their third leader in 6 years and they have convinced the electorate that the corruption doesn't matter, that the "man in the street" doesn't care that senior ministers and indeed the prime minister lies to the house of commons on a regular basis and that previous red lines which used to see the end of political careers when crossed do not apply to them.

The right wing of their party has played their hand well, from being unelectable under numerous Duncan-Smiths and Howards, the boot is very much on the other foot, there is very little likelihood of Labour winning the next election and Brexit has been such a game changer - that was the thing the right wing of their party lay so long in wait for, it is the current "Bastards" (see John Major) who seem to call the shots now.

I have friends who volunteered on lifeboats, guys I was at school with. They are too old to go out now, but their counterparts will be criminalised for picking drowning people out of the sea if this government is allowed to enact their proposals.

[westport]

The supermarket shortages are become more and more noticeable. It's funny this isn't really national news. Oh well, paying more for our shopping is worth it to get Brits training up to be HGV drivers and paid more for what's a horrible job.

A friend of mine is a transport manager we are both on a ex-forces site he says, there isn't a shortage of HGV drivers - There are 600,000 driver jobs in UK and 1.37 million qualified drivers.

There are more than enough qualified HGV drivers to fill all the jobs but they are not taking them as they have been screwed by the companies over the years with the incoming foreign drivers that forced down wages for drivers. The companies are not investing in staff. There is no investment in working conditions, ie toilet and changing facilities. Drivers have had enough and not prepared to put up with all the sh1t. Change that (and some things could be changed in a heartbeat, like suspending CPC for 24 months). Free overnight parking in service areas, increased security at stops, a dozen other things.

There are drivers that have had 3,4, or 5 pay rises this year by companies that are desperate to keep hold of their current drivers.

It is not just here

17,00 Truck driver short in Italy
124,000 Drivers short in Poland
Germany 45,000 - 60,000 short
France 43,000
Spain 15,00

https://www.globalcoldchainnews.com/dri ... -european/

And don't get him started on RHA and the other body as they want all the foreigners to come back and that will again force down drivers wages. And the DVLA isn't helping either with their industrial action

[Sandstorm]

Free overnight parking in service areas, increased security at stops, a dozen other things.

I always see this as something easy that they could do to make a driver's life easier and safer. I live near the M4/A34 junction and there is a huge truck stop at the Services that is always empty. However the laybys on surrounding dual-carriageways are dangerously full of lorries every evening and the roads in town have lorries parked on pavements everywhere! Trailers get robbed regularly.

No wonder drivers are pissed.

[I like neeps]

https://www.businessinsider.com/robert- ... ssion=true

Would you believe it Plim, Jenrick is involved in another process error. Just like that Maxwell one. It's lucky it's a process error and not wrongdoing otherwise we might be able to suggest there's some corruption at play. Hope our dodgy lawyers don't get involved and there's no judicial overreaching trying to prevent salt of the earth morally upstanding people who have only had to repay one bribe from doing a good job!!

[Plim]

https://www.businessinsider.com/robert- ... ssion=true

Would you believe it Plim, Jenrick is involved in another process error. Just like that Maxwell one. It's lucky it's a process error and not wrongdoing otherwise we might be able to suggest there's some corruption at play. Hope our dodgy lawyers don't get involved and there's no judicial overreaching trying to prevent salt of the earth morally upstanding people who have only had to repay one bribe from doing a good job!!

I’m not defending wrongdoing - even down to not declaring otherwise acceptable meetings (a point made in that article). Read my posts.

My objection is to essentially politically motivated use of JR.

Trouble is, whether or not Jenrick is morally culpable here (the meeting was hardly secret was it?), it’s not a reviewable decision. ‘Process’ in the JR sense doesn’t come into it.

If GLP’s JR about levelling up succeeds they’ll have shown that due process wasn’t followed. If it fails we will have to assume that proper process was followed. In neither case is wrongdoing established or excluded.

For what it’s worth, the Blair government in 2002 published a bill that would have removed JR jurisdiction from all immigration and asylum cases - in other words truly important individual cases. Was that government corrupt and rotten because of that attempt? I don’t think so. I disagreed with the policy of restriction of those cases then and I’d disagree with it now, since they clearly concern executive decision-making that affects individuals and that the courts should be able to review, but it’s got nothing to do with wrongdoing.

[Slick]

The supermarket shortages are become more and more noticeable. It's funny this isn't really national news. Oh well, paying more for our shopping is worth it to get Brits training up to be HGV drivers and paid more for what's a horrible job.

A friend of mine is a transport manager we are both on a ex-forces site he says, there isn't a shortage of HGV drivers - There are 600,000 driver jobs in UK and 1.37 million qualified drivers.

There are more than enough qualified HGV drivers to fill all the jobs but they are not taking them as they have been screwed by the companies over the years with the incoming foreign drivers that forced down wages for drivers. The companies are not investing in staff. There is no investment in working conditions, ie toilet and changing facilities. Drivers have had enough and not prepared to put up with all the sh1t. Change that (and some things could be changed in a heartbeat, like suspending CPC for 24 months). Free overnight parking in service areas, increased security at stops, a dozen other things.

There are drivers that have had 3,4, or 5 pay rises this year by companies that are desperate to keep hold of their current drivers.

It is not just here

17,00 Truck driver short in Italy
124,000 Drivers short in Poland
Germany 45,000 - 60,000 short
France 43,000
Spain 15,00

https://www.globalcoldchainnews.com/dri ... -european/

And don't get him started on RHA and the other body as they want all the foreigners to come back and that will again force down drivers wages. And the DVLA isn't helping either with their industrial action

Yup, the old hard working foreigners, lazy Brits, narratives coming home to roost. This is happening across sectors and I have little sympathy for the employers that have enjoyed a run of cheap labour they have been able to treat like shit.

[I like neeps]

https://www.businessinsider.com/robert- ... ssion=true

Would you believe it Plim, Jenrick is involved in another process error. Just like that Maxwell one. It's lucky it's a process error and not wrongdoing otherwise we might be able to suggest there's some corruption at play. Hope our dodgy lawyers don't get involved and there's no judicial overreaching trying to prevent salt of the earth morally upstanding people who have only had to repay one bribe from doing a good job!!

I’m not defending wrongdoing - even down to not declaring otherwise acceptable meetings (a point made in that article). Read my posts.

My objection is to essentially politically motivated use of JR.

Trouble is, whether or not Jenrick is morally culpable here (the meeting was hardly secret was it?), it’s not a reviewable decision. ‘Process’ in the JR sense doesn’t come into it.

If GLP’s JR about levelling up succeeds they’ll have shown that due process wasn’t followed. If it fails we will have to assume that proper process was followed. In neither case is wrongdoing established or excluded.

For what it’s worth, the Blair government in 2002 published a bill that would have removed JR jurisdiction from all immigration and asylum cases - in other words truly important individual cases. Was that government corrupt and rotten because of that attempt? I don’t think so. I disagreed with the policy of restriction of those cases then and I’d disagree with it now, since they clearly concern executive decision-making that affects individuals and that the courts should be able to review, but it’s got nothing to do with wrongdoing.

I think there's a pretty big difference between creating a mechanism to give levelling up funds to constituency which return a Tory MP using criteria that is handpicked to do so. And removing judicial review from specific asylum cases. You could easily argue that removing jr from immigration/asylum cases is evil or morally wrong. It's hard to argue that's it's corrupt though. It's not very difficult to argue that giving quite well of constituencies levelling up funds is corrupt or maybe not corrupt but paying for votes in any case. Tony Blair was also guilty of cash for access/peerages - he's no morally pure Saint. He is a bastard as well.

[Dogbert]

The supermarket shortages are become more and more noticeable. It's funny this isn't really national news. Oh well, paying more for our shopping is worth it to get Brits training up to be HGV drivers and paid more for what's a horrible job.

A friend of mine is a transport manager we are both on a ex-forces site he says, there isn't a shortage of HGV drivers - There are 600,000 driver jobs in UK and 1.37 million qualified drivers.

There are more than enough qualified HGV drivers to fill all the jobs but they are not taking them as they have been screwed by the companies over the years with the incoming foreign drivers that forced down wages for drivers. The companies are not investing in staff. There is no investment in working conditions, ie toilet and changing facilities. Drivers have had enough and not prepared to put up with all the sh1t. Change that (and some things could be changed in a heartbeat, like suspending CPC for 24 months). Free overnight parking in service areas, increased security at stops, a dozen other things.

There are drivers that have had 3,4, or 5 pay rises this year by companies that are desperate to keep hold of their current drivers.

It is not just here

17,00 Truck driver short in Italy
124,000 Drivers short in Poland
Germany 45,000 - 60,000 short
France 43,000
Spain 15,00

https://www.globalcoldchainnews.com/dri ... -european/

And don't get him started on RHA and the other body as they want all the foreigners to come back and that will again force down drivers wages. And the DVLA isn't helping either with their industrial action

Yup, the old hard working foreigners,

lazy Brits, narratives coming home to roost.

This is happening across sectors and I have little sympathy for the employers that have enjoyed a run of cheap labour they have been able to treat like shit.

How do you feel about Politicians who also espouse this point of view ?

Lets face it "Too many people in Britain, we argue, prefer a lie-in to hard work.”

[Plim]

https://www.businessinsider.com/robert- ... ssion=true

Would you believe it Plim, Jenrick is involved in another process error. Just like that Maxwell one. It's lucky it's a process error and not wrongdoing otherwise we might be able to suggest there's some corruption at play. Hope our dodgy lawyers don't get involved and there's no judicial overreaching trying to prevent salt of the earth morally upstanding people who have only had to repay one bribe from doing a good job!!

I’m not defending wrongdoing - even down to not declaring otherwise acceptable meetings (a point made in that article). Read my posts.

My objection is to essentially politically motivated use of JR.

Trouble is, whether or not Jenrick is morally culpable here (the meeting was hardly secret was it?), it’s not a reviewable decision. ‘Process’ in the JR sense doesn’t come into it.

If GLP’s JR about levelling up succeeds they’ll have shown that due process wasn’t followed. If it fails we will have to assume that proper process was followed. In neither case is wrongdoing established or excluded.

For what it’s worth, the Blair government in 2002 published a bill that would have removed JR jurisdiction from all immigration and asylum cases - in other words truly important individual cases. Was that government corrupt and rotten because of that attempt? I don’t think so. I disagreed with the policy of restriction of those cases then and I’d disagree with it now, since they clearly concern executive decision-making that affects individuals and that the courts should be able to review, but it’s got nothing to do with wrongdoing.

I think there's a pretty big difference between creating a mechanism to give levelling up funds to constituency which return a Tory MP using criteria that is handpicked to do so. And removing judicial review from specific asylum cases. You could easily argue that removing jr from immigration/asylum cases is evil or morally wrong. It's hard to argue that's it's corrupt though. It's not very difficult to argue that giving quite well of constituencies levelling up funds is corrupt or maybe not corrupt but paying for votes in any case. Tony Blair was also guilty of cash for access/peerages - he's no morally pure Saint. He is a bastard as well.

Again, decisions on spending that benefit a party in government directly or indirectly (assuming what you say about levelling up is true, which is a big, unproven assumption) aren't corrupt in any legal sense because of that alone. Nor are they corrupt by the fact of being found in breach of adminstrative law principles. They might be politically objectionable, depending on your politics, but that's a whole different matter.

You're conflating criminal law and adminstrative law.

Blair had his faults. But at his core he was a decent enough person, had good EU instincts and was generally a good prime minister. I share the dim view of his later messianic foreign policy, but even then I suspect he genuinely thought he was on the right side. If you want morally pure saints in government you're going to be disappointed every time.

[Slick]

A friend of mine is a transport manager we are both on a ex-forces site he says, there isn't a shortage of HGV drivers - There are 600,000 driver jobs in UK and 1.37 million qualified drivers.

There are more than enough qualified HGV drivers to fill all the jobs but they are not taking them as they have been screwed by the companies over the years with the incoming foreign drivers that forced down wages for drivers. The companies are not investing in staff. There is no investment in working conditions, ie toilet and changing facilities. Drivers have had enough and not prepared to put up with all the sh1t. Change that (and some things could be changed in a heartbeat, like suspending CPC for 24 months). Free overnight parking in service areas, increased security at stops, a dozen other things.

There are drivers that have had 3,4, or 5 pay rises this year by companies that are desperate to keep hold of their current drivers.

It is not just here

17,00 Truck driver short in Italy
124,000 Drivers short in Poland
Germany 45,000 - 60,000 short
France 43,000
Spain 15,00

https://www.globalcoldchainnews.com/dri ... -european/

And don't get him started on RHA and the other body as they want all the foreigners to come back and that will again force down drivers wages. And the DVLA isn't helping either with their industrial action

Yup, the old hard working foreigners,

lazy Brits, narratives coming home to roost.

This is happening across sectors and I have little sympathy for the employers that have enjoyed a run of cheap labour they have been able to treat like shit.

How do you feel about Politicians who also espouse this point of view ?

Lets face it "Too many people in Britain, we argue, prefer a lie-in to hard work.”

The same, they have enabled it

[I like neeps]

I’m not defending wrongdoing - even down to not declaring otherwise acceptable meetings (a point made in that article). Read my posts.

My objection is to essentially politically motivated use of JR.

Trouble is, whether or not Jenrick is morally culpable here (the meeting was hardly secret was it?), it’s not a reviewable decision. ‘Process’ in the JR sense doesn’t come into it.

If GLP’s JR about levelling up succeeds they’ll have shown that due process wasn’t followed. If it fails we will have to assume that proper process was followed. In neither case is wrongdoing established or excluded.

For what it’s worth, the Blair government in 2002 published a bill that would have removed JR jurisdiction from all immigration and asylum cases - in other words truly important individual cases. Was that government corrupt and rotten because of that attempt? I don’t think so. I disagreed with the policy of restriction of those cases then and I’d disagree with it now, since they clearly concern executive decision-making that affects individuals and that the courts should be able to review, but it’s got nothing to do with wrongdoing.

I think there's a pretty big difference between creating a mechanism to give levelling up funds to constituency which return a Tory MP using criteria that is handpicked to do so. And removing judicial review from specific asylum cases. You could easily argue that removing jr from immigration/asylum cases is evil or morally wrong. It's hard to argue that's it's corrupt though. It's not very difficult to argue that giving quite well of constituencies levelling up funds is corrupt or maybe not corrupt but paying for votes in any case. Tony Blair was also guilty of cash for access/peerages - he's no morally pure Saint. He is a bastard as well.

Again, decisions on spending that benefit a party in government directly or indirectly (assuming what you say about levelling up is true, which is a big, unproven assumption) aren't corrupt in any legal sense because of that alone. Nor are they corrupt by the fact of being found in breach of adminstrative law principles. They might be politically objectionable, depending on your politics, but that's a whole different matter.

You're conflating criminal law and adminstrative law.

Blair had his faults. But at his core he was a decent enough person, had good EU instincts and was generally a good prime minister. I share the dim view of his later messianic foreign policy, but even then I suspect he genuinely thought he was on the right side. If you want morally pure saints in government you're going to be disappointed every time.

Sure not following government process is administrative law. If it is done in the way Jenrick acted with Desmond and some of the PPE contracts I believe it should be a criminal matter. But sure it's interpretation.

Blair's track record isn't very good when you look at it. Very few achievements, a lot of diasters: Iraq, the PFI hospitals, very little of note actually achieved.

Morally perfect leaders aren't required. I wouldn't be bothered by politicians enacting policies I don't agree with. It's the contracts going to friends and buying time with politicians I don't like. Don't you want leaders who aren't giving peerages for money/cash for access? It's just not very democratic.