Exeter Chiefs chop and imagery

[Kawazaki]

I didn’t say anyone was. Where are you getting that from?

You said you are anti-racist (well done you) then linked that statement with the comment that I would be offended by you being anti-racist.

Why would I be offended that you're anti-racist?

I don’t know, I said if you were. Why are you offended by anything on this thread? Because if you’re not then I don’t see why you’re going on about this.

I can’t help your over reaction.

You wrote;

"I’m quite happy to offend you by being against racism."

Why did you think I would be offended by you being against racism?

If you made an error then fine, just say so. If you didn't then I'm asking why you made this a personal observation specifically to me.

[Biffer]

You said you are anti-racist (well done you) then linked that statement with the comment that I would be offended by you being anti-racist.

Why would I be offended that you're anti-racist?

I don’t know, I said if you were. Why are you offended by anything on this thread? Because if you’re not then I don’t see why you’re going on about this.

I can’t help your over reaction.

You wrote;

"I’m quite happy to offend you by being against racism."

Why did you think I would be offended by you being against racism?

If you made an error then fine, just say so. If you didn't then I'm asking why you made this a personal question specifically to me.

What, the facetious answer to your facetious answer? God you’re an idiot. Jog on.

[Kawazaki]

I don’t know, I said if you were. Why are you offended by anything on this thread? Because if you’re not then I don’t see why you’re going on about this.

I can’t help your over reaction.

You wrote;

"I’m quite happy to offend you by being against racism."

Why did you think I would be offended by you being against racism?

If you made an error then fine, just say so. If you didn't then I'm asking why you made this a personal question specifically to me.

What, the facetious answer to your facetious answer? God you’re an idiot. Jog on.

And there we have it.

Fella, you're clearly a cunt, just own it.

[Biffer]

You wrote;

"I’m quite happy to offend you by being against racism."

Why did you think I would be offended by you being against racism?

If you made an error then fine, just say so. If you didn't then I'm asking why you made this a personal question specifically to me.

What, the facetious answer to your facetious answer? God you’re an idiot. Jog on.

And there we have it.

Fella, you're clearly a cunt, just own it.

What, the point we covered a page ago.

Do fuck off. You’re reaching bimbot levels of fucktard.

[Kawazaki]

What, the facetious answer to your facetious answer? God you’re an idiot. Jog on.

And there we have it.

Fella, you're clearly a cunt, just own it.

What, the point we covered a page ago.

Do fuck off. You’re reaching bimbot levels of fucktard.

You covered fuck all. You couldn't even recall what you'd actually written just an hour ago.

Respect yourself, own it, don't snivel out with strawman Bimbo references.

[assfly]

This thread

[average joe]

Ma se poes maar die lot kan n klomp kak praat.

[SaintK]

Ma se poes maar die lot kan n klomp kak praat.

............almost as much shit as on the average Saffer thread when you lot are arguing among yourselves

[average joe]

Ma se poes maar die lot kan n klomp kak praat.

............almost as much shit as on the average Saffer thread when you lot are arguing among yourselves

We are a special breed indeed, to us it's second nature. I hold the rest of the world to a different standard though.

[SaintK]

Ma se poes maar die lot kan n klomp kak praat.

............almost as much shit as on the average Saffer thread when you lot are arguing among yourselves

We are a special breed indeed, to us it's second nature. I hold the rest of the world to a different standard though.

[Openside]

Why is the R word even being mentioned on this thread its got F'all do do with discrimination.

[Niegs]

Why is the R word even being mentioned on this thread its got F'all do do with discrimination.

https://www.ncai.org/news/articles/2020 ... ist-mascot

https://www.ncai.org/proudtobe

[Biffer]

Racism has F all to do with discrimination?

Some top level thinking there.

[assfly]

I don't see this as a race or racist issue. The problem here is how a culture and heritage is being depicted. Those are different things in my book.

[Openside]

Racism has F all to do with discrimination?

Some top level thinking there.

What a twat!!

[Openside]

I don't see this as a race or racist issue. The problem here is how a culture and heritage is being depicted. Those are different things in my book.

No Biffer wants to show us how clever he is - don't rain on his parade

[ASMO]

If this doesnt stop i am going to lock this thread

[sockwithaticket]

I don't see this as a race or racist issue. The problem here is how a culture and heritage is being depicted. Those are different things in my book.

Caricaturing a race isn't racist?

I seem to recall that's why a great many depictions of Asians and black people ceased.

[Kawazaki]

Are Exeter Chiefs being racist by using their Chiefs logo, and by extension are supporters of Exeter Chiefs racists for supporting their team?

[Tichtheid]

Are Exeter Chiefs being racist by using their Chiefs logo, and by extension are supporters of Exeter Chiefs racists for supporting their team?

I think that you can partake in an activity without really thinking it through, supposing it's okay because it chimes with stuff you did as a kid and what you saw on tv. It's a bit of a laugh, it gives you a sense of being part of something, supporting your team.

This is not the same as being an active member of the NF or their offshoots.

However, when it's pointed out that this is offensive to the people whose culture you are mimicking/caricaturing, then you have the choice of doubling down or saying, "fair enough, I hadn't really considered it that way, sorry"

[assfly]

Caricaturing a race isn't racist?

I seem to recall that's why a great many depictions of Asians and black people ceased.

It seems to me they are caricaturing a culture, not a race.

I haven't seen skin colour been mentioned anywhere.

[JM2K6]

Caricaturing a race isn't racist?

I seem to recall that's why a great many depictions of Asians and black people ceased.

It seems to me they are caricaturing a culture, not a race.

I haven't seen skin colour been mentioned anywhere.

That's a distinction without a difference

[Biffer]

Caricaturing a race isn't racist?

I seem to recall that's why a great many depictions of Asians and black people ceased.

It seems to me they are caricaturing a culture, not a race.

I haven't seen skin colour been mentioned anywhere.

Racism isn't always about skin colour.

[assfly]

Racism isn't always about skin colour.

Perhaps, but who gets to decide that?

[Raggs]

Racism isn't always about skin colour.

Perhaps, but who gets to decide that?

So if I pull my eyes up at the sides, wear a robe, start babbling, holding my hands together wearing a pointy round hat, offering people bowls of "fwied lice", I'm not in fact being racist if I've not used makeup/facepaint/mention having a normally slightly yellower shade of skin?

[assfly]

So if I pull my eyes up at the sides, wear a robe, start babbling, holding my hands together wearing a pointy round hat, offering people bowls of "fwied lice", I'm not in fact being racist if I've not used makeup/facepaint/mention having a normally slightly yellower shade of skin?

This is the problem with this debate. People automatically create the worst possible scenario and ask if it is racist or not, forgetting that there are many grey areas in between.

I can't declare if that is racist or not as But I don't think it's helpful when the conversation is so binary.

[Slick]

Racism isn't always about skin colour.

Perhaps, but who gets to decide that?

So if I pull my eyes up at the sides, wear a robe, start babbling, holding my hands together wearing a pointy round hat, offering people bowls of "fwied lice", I'm not in fact being racist if I've not used makeup/facepaint/mention having a normally slightly yellower shade of skin?

You're a Rangers supporter

[Biffer]

So if I pull my eyes up at the sides, wear a robe, start babbling, holding my hands together wearing a pointy round hat, offering people bowls of "fwied lice", I'm not in fact being racist if I've not used makeup/facepaint/mention having a normally slightly yellower shade of skin?

This is the problem with this debate. People automatically create the worst possible scenario and ask if it is racist or not, forgetting that there are many grey areas in between.

I can't declare if that is racist or not as But I don't think it's helpful when the conversation is so binary.

Seriously? You ‘can’t declare if that’s racist’?

If you don’t recognise that as racist, then it’s hard to understand why you think you can bring anything to any discussion. You talk about it being binary but then try to say it has to be about skin colour. It’s a view of racism from the 60s ffs.

It’s either incredibly naive or it’s a deliberate deflection so you don’t have to confront your own views being out of date.

[assfly]

Seriously? You ‘can’t declare if that’s racist’?

If you don’t recognise that as racist, then it’s hard to understand why you think you can bring anything to any discussion. You talk about it being binary but then try to say it has to be about skin colour. It’s a view of racism from the 60s ffs.

It’s either incredibly naive or it’s a deliberate deflection so you don’t have to confront your own views being out of date.

These are my views on racism. I was born and raised a white in southern Africa where racism has torn apart countries, started wars and killed people and the impact of racism is still felt today and will be for future generations.

That's why I see a distinction between someone being stupid, offensive, ignorant and someone being racist. If everything that is offensive is classed as racism then it becomes a word we are so used to and dilutes the real damage that racism can do.

[Raggs]

Seriously? You ‘can’t declare if that’s racist’?

If you don’t recognise that as racist, then it’s hard to understand why you think you can bring anything to any discussion. You talk about it being binary but then try to say it has to be about skin colour. It’s a view of racism from the 60s ffs.

It’s either incredibly naive or it’s a deliberate deflection so you don’t have to confront your own views being out of date.

These are my views on racism. I was born and raised a white in southern Africa where racism has torn apart countries, started wars and killed people and the impact of racism is still felt today and will be for future generations.

That's why I see a distinction between someone being stupid, offensive, ignorant and someone being racist. If everything that is offensive is classed as racism then it becomes a word we are so used to and dilutes the real damage that racism can do.

I can accept that ignorance can prevent something being racist, and merely reduce it to offensive. It's a matter of education. I'm educated enough to be fully aware that my suggestion above is completely fucking racist. If someone had actively pointed out the fact that it's offensive to a specific race, and is therefore racist, then we can say the person has now been educated, and if they continue to behave in the same manner, are being racist?

[assfly]

I can accept that ignorance can prevent something being racist, and merely reduce it to offensive. It's a matter of education. I'm educated enough to be fully aware that my suggestion above is completely fucking racist. If someone had actively pointed out the fact that it's offensive to a specific race, and is therefore racist, then we can say the person has now been educated, and if they continue to behave in the same manner, are being racist?

Here's another conundrum.

What if you and I find it racist, but a Chinese person finds it funny?

I'm not trying to be obtuse, just pointing out there are lots of grey areas in this debate.

In Kenya, it is quite common for for young Kenyans these days to make fun of Nigerians including impersonations of their accents and mannerisms. I laugh along nervously, but obviously wouldn't dare do an impersonation myself. So does that mean the Kenyans are being racist?

[Raggs]

I can accept that ignorance can prevent something being racist, and merely reduce it to offensive. It's a matter of education. I'm educated enough to be fully aware that my suggestion above is completely fucking racist. If someone had actively pointed out the fact that it's offensive to a specific race, and is therefore racist, then we can say the person has now been educated, and if they continue to behave in the same manner, are being racist?

Here's another conundrum.

What if you and I find it racist, but a Chinese person finds it funny?

I'm not trying to be obtuse, just pointing out there are lots of grey areas in this debate.

In Kenya, it is quite common for for young Kenyans these days to make fun of Nigerians including impersonations of their accents and mannerisms. I laugh along nervously, but obviously wouldn't dare do an impersonation myself. So does that mean the Kenyans are being racist?

If individuals find it funny, but most don't, it's probably still racist.

How about if representatives of oppressed groups, inform you that your actions are racist, and they cite many other groups saying that extremely similar behaviour of others, is considered racist. Would you accept that you should now know better, and if you continue, you are being knowingly racist?

[Niegs]

It's a lack of empathy, isn't it? You see people questioning the whole issue with "It's just a bit of fun" and similar statements.

But there's a history indigenous North Americans are still trying to recover from, which includes what some would argue as cultural genocide; having been forced into often church-run schools that sought to eradicate their language and way of life. Part of that recent history included being depicted, with 'good' intentions in many cases, as a warrior race. Today, in wanting to be seen as rich and diverse living cultures, activists and many less-vocal supporters would rather the world see them for what they were - as people, not as caricatures.

To me, those who say "it's just a bit of fun" have no empathy for that stance. The majority probably aren't 'racists' but they certainly don't care about the desire for people to see themselves represented with accuracy and dignity. And as much as some also say things like "we're honouring them" with the 'positive' representation, do they know anything about the real and diverse aspects of any unique indigenous group beyond how they were portrayed in Westerns? I doubt it.

[sockwithaticket]

It's a lack of empathy, isn't it? You see people questioning the whole issue with "It's just a bit of fun" and similar statements.

But there's a history indigenous North Americans are still trying to recover from, which includes what some would argue as cultural genocide; having been forced into often church-run schools that sought to eradicate their language and way of life. Part of that recent history included being depicted, with 'good' intentions in many cases, as a warrior race. Today, in wanting to be seen as rich and diverse living cultures, activists and many less-vocal supporters would rather the world see them for what they were - as people, not as caricatures.

To me, those who say "it's just a bit of fun" have no empathy for that stance. The majority probably aren't 'racists' but they certainly don't care about the desire for people to see themselves represented with accuracy and dignity. And as much as some also say things like "we're honouring them" with the 'positive' representation, do they know anything about the real and diverse aspects of any unique indigenous group beyond how they were portrayed in Westerns? I doubt it.

[Kawazaki]

So if I pull my eyes up at the sides, wear a robe, start babbling, holding my hands together wearing a pointy round hat, offering people bowls of "fwied lice", I'm not in fact being racist if I've not used makeup/facepaint/mention having a normally slightly yellower shade of skin?

This is the problem with this debate. People automatically create the worst possible scenario and ask if it is racist or not, forgetting that there are many grey areas in between.

I can't declare if that is racist or not as But I don't think it's helpful when the conversation is so binary.

Seriously? You ‘can’t declare if that’s racist’?

If you don’t recognise that as racist, then it’s hard to understand why you think you can bring anything to any discussion. You talk about it being binary but then try to say it has to be about skin colour. It’s a view of racism from the 60s ffs.

It’s either incredibly naive or it’s a deliberate deflection so you don’t have to confront your own views being out of date.

Jesus wept - don't be a fucking moron 24/7, take an hour off occasionally.

[Kawazaki]

It's a lack of empathy, isn't it? You see people questioning the whole issue with "It's just a bit of fun" and similar statements.

But there's a history indigenous North Americans are still trying to recover from, which includes what some would argue as cultural genocide; having been forced into often church-run schools that sought to eradicate their language and way of life. Part of that recent history included being depicted, with 'good' intentions in many cases, as a warrior race. Today, in wanting to be seen as rich and diverse living cultures, activists and many less-vocal supporters would rather the world see them for what they were - as people, not as caricatures.

To me, those who say "it's just a bit of fun" have no empathy for that stance. The majority probably aren't 'racists' but they certainly don't care about the desire for people to see themselves represented with accuracy and dignity. And as much as some also say things like "we're honouring them" with the 'positive' representation, do they know anything about the real and diverse aspects of any unique indigenous group beyond how they were portrayed in Westerns? I doubt it.

Honest question - will anybody in the new world even know what a Native American was/looked like 50 years from now?

[Niegs]

Honest question - will anybody in the new world even know what a Native American was/looked like 50 years from now?

Sure, why not? Many still live on Reservations and I've read that birth rates there (in parts of Canada, at least) tend to be a little higher than the national average.

[Kawazaki]

Honest question - will anybody in the new world even know what a Native American was/looked like 50 years from now?

Sure, why not? Many still live on Reservations and I've read that birth rates there (in parts of Canada, at least) tend to be a little higher than the national average.

Oh I'm sure they'll still exist, but that wasn't what I asked.

[MoreOrLess]

I can accept that ignorance can prevent something being racist, and merely reduce it to offensive. It's a matter of education. I'm educated enough to be fully aware that my suggestion above is completely fucking racist. If someone had actively pointed out the fact that it's offensive to a specific race, and is therefore racist, then we can say the person has now been educated, and if they continue to behave in the same manner, are being racist?

Here's another conundrum.

What if you and I find it racist, but a Chinese person finds it funny?

I'm not trying to be obtuse, just pointing out there are lots of grey areas in this debate.

In Kenya, it is quite common for for young Kenyans these days to make fun of Nigerians including impersonations of their accents and mannerisms. I laugh along nervously, but obviously wouldn't dare do an impersonation myself. So does that mean the Kenyans are being racist?

Is racism in the eye of the beholder?

I think that if you're mocking a trait that you believe is distinct to an ethnic group then you're being racist. It doesn't matter if someone in that ethnic group finds if funny, or even if you're part of that ethnic group yourself. Those things just influence the consequence of your racist act.

If someone physically attacks you then you've been assaulted. It's up to you whether you laugh or press charges, but that doesn't change the fact that someone has just punched you in the face.

[ASMO]

I can accept that ignorance can prevent something being racist, and merely reduce it to offensive. It's a matter of education. I'm educated enough to be fully aware that my suggestion above is completely fucking racist. If someone had actively pointed out the fact that it's offensive to a specific race, and is therefore racist, then we can say the person has now been educated, and if they continue to behave in the same manner, are being racist?

Here's another conundrum.

What if you and I find it racist, but a Chinese person finds it funny?

I'm not trying to be obtuse, just pointing out there are lots of grey areas in this debate.

In Kenya, it is quite common for for young Kenyans these days to make fun of Nigerians including impersonations of their accents and mannerisms. I laugh along nervously, but obviously wouldn't dare do an impersonation myself. So does that mean the Kenyans are being racist?

Is racism in the eye of the beholder?

I think that if you're mocking a trait that you believe is distinct to an ethnic group then you're being racist. It doesn't matter if someone in that ethnic group finds if funny, or even if you're part of that ethnic group yourself. Those things just influence the consequence of your racist act.

If someone physically attacks you then you've been assaulted. It's up to you whether you laugh or press charges, but that doesn't change the fact that someone has just punched you in the face.

Mocking yes but mimicking? At worst that is culturally insensitive which i believe is what the Chiefs are doing and it should be stopped, but it cannot by any measure be considered racist.