Stop voting for fucking Tories

[dpedin]

Imagine if they had taken that stance throughout the pandemic - which is of course precisely what they wanted to do in the first few weeks. If it's not the role of the State then why is this government constantly gagging for plaudits about the vaccination programme?

Just part of a wider agenda ... to blame everyone else for their incompetence! Why so many covid cases and deaths ... individuals didn't do what we told them and they are all fat/old anyway! Why a shortage of lorry drivers .... transport industry to blame! Why shortages of fuel ... individuals panic buying! Why no-one to harvest crops ... lazy buggers on the dole not working in the fields! Why do we have starving kids ... parents spend all their money on drugs, fags and alcohol! They are desperate to push this agenda as the Brexit shit hits the fan, they are shitting themselves over the winter to come and know it is going to be shit. Unfortunately some dumb fuckers believe this.

[I like neeps]

Health should be family first, then community, then state. As a point I agree. So maybe they should start creating some family focused healthcare policies like decreasing the cost of childcare. Nah it'll never catch on.

[dpedin]

Health should be family first, then community, then state. As a point I agree. So maybe they should start creating some family focused healthcare policies like decreasing the cost of childcare. Nah it'll never catch on.

You will need to explain that to Sajid, he is a merchant banker and knows feck all about healthcare. He is in there to privatise the NHS not run it successfully.

[I like neeps]

Health should be family first, then community, then state. As a point I agree. So maybe they should start creating some family focused healthcare policies like decreasing the cost of childcare. Nah it'll never catch on.

You will need to explain that to Sajid, he is a merchant banker and knows feck all about healthcare. He is in there to privatise the NHS not run it successfully.

There is scope to have a conversation about private healthcare. We always say well it'll be like America but healthcare in Europe is mostly private and not the same horror stories. I guess we'd end up like America but eh is the NHS the best way to provide healthcare? There is room for discussion.

In any case he is correct family and community healthcare would be great. It's just totally unaffordable for most. If Javid implements sensible community healthcare initiatives there wouldn't be such demand. But he seems to think people are in position now to provide care.

[Torquemada 1420]

And more...

Pandora Papers: Tory donor Mohamed Amersi involved in telecoms corruption scandal

Pandora Papers: Questions over Tory donations by ex-Russian minister's wife

plus for a bit of balance

Pandora Papers: Blairs saved £312,000 stamp duty in property deal

Was just thinking we should add the Pandora Papers to this thread. Notice how silent the media had been on this subject.

Silent?

Are you kidding?

There have been 600 plus journalists working on this all over the World.

There is no fake news/MSM cover up, mate. And even if there were, you can't keep stuff secret when that many people know about it.

News just in for you: Britain is no longer the world.

PS John Pilger exposed this stuff decades ago.

[dpedin]

https://alastaircampbell.org/2018/08/th ... rd-brexit/

This is an interesting article about JRM and helps explain his and many of his Tory colleagues approach to Brexit and our current shitshow. Brexit and current supply chain/shortage issues aren't a problem but merely an investment opportunity and a chance to deregulate and shift towards the Sovereign Individual.

[Hal Jordan]

Everything is an opportunity to enrich himself for the likes of Rees-Mogg. He's a true Catholic (Pardoner edition).

[sturginho]

Both the Torygraph and the Times have headlines about "The PM" but a picture of Carrie on the front page

[I like neeps]

Oh dear. There's a reason he doesn't know the word misandry. I wonder what it is.

[dpedin]

Everything is an opportunity to enrich himself for the likes of Rees-Mogg. He's a true Catholic (Pardoner edition).

I think there is both an idealogical and a greed/economic basis for the current Gov driving home a next to No Deal Brexit and their handling of the fallout from the covid and Brexit.

Covid was actually a great opportunity for the hard line Brexiteers. They were already wanting the chaos and mayhem of a No Deal Brexit in order to drive through their idealogical motive to deregulate, reduce welfare state, reduce taxation, privatise, etc as described in the Rees- Mogg Snr book about the Sovereign Individual. To get there they needed to take control of both parliament and the arms of government - their 80 seat majority gave them a great start and they then culled their own party and the Civil Service of the non believers. Paradoxically this allowed them to increase Gov intervention in the short term in order to eventually package things up and sell them off in the future. When Covid came along this was manna from heaven and gave them an ideal opportunity to legislate for even greater 'emergency' control of the state. It fell nicely into the timeline of 'getting Brexit done' and why they would never have delayed leaving the EU. Doing both at the same time gave them huge centralised powers and the opportunity to use whichever one they wanted as the excuse for the actions they were taking. It also provided a smoke screen for them and made it very difficult for Labour/SNP/etc to attack them on a number of specific issues. It also provided an ideal and opportunistic chance to keep their chums happy with large, overpriced and often underdelivered, sweetheart contracts for PPE and services. It was also going to provide them, if they waited long enough, with an ideal opportunity to attack the national institutions they hate most - see the attacks now on the GPs/NHS, the welfare state, the reduction in UC and the BBC for example. We have also seen the normalisation of 'bringing in the army' in order to deal with fuel shortages, checking up on Afghanistan refugees in hotels and providing NHS additional capacity - what next? 'Law and order' is being used as a cover to introduce huge restrictions on peaceful protest and has given the Home Office huge powers to restrict 'civil disobedience'.

Throughout the covid pandemic and increasingly post Brexit we have seen the Gov offering huge public funded contracts to their mates and funders - Track and Trace, PPE procurement, ferry companies without any ferries, Deliottes, Serco, etc. Covid and Brexit have provided an ideal opportunity for them to funnel huge amounts of funding and to increase private sector involvement in all parts of public service. The economics of both covid and Brexit have shown the rich have got richer, including many MPs, and the poor have got poorer. Anyone who believes the current bullshit about the move to high wage economy is in cloud cuckoo land! Without growth in productivity increasing wages for the same out put is merely increasing inflationary pressures. The bullshit about our record wage increases and economic growth have all been discredited by experts.

The biggest challenge for this Gov is how they retain power whilst creating and maintaining the chaos and economic/social mess they want in order to create the new 'utopia' of deregulation, lowering taxation, destroying the welfare state, the NHS etc. Their biggest asset in this challenge is the Blonde Bumblecunt - the man of the people, the jolly chappy - he is the Jimmy Saville of the political world! He continues to destroy the life of the poor and the working man whilst telling them the opposite and in plain view. Whilst everyone laughs at his jolly escapades - dangling from a wire waving Union Jack flags, claiming to make red buses from empty wine boxes, jack-the-lad shagging a blonde bimbo from the states, jogging in his work shirt and brogues - his mates are busy asset stripping this country and making the poor poorer.

My view is don't expect the chaos and panic to go away anytime soon and don't expect the Gov to try and resolve the underlying issues. They will do a few simple things like deal with the shortage of turkeys for Christmas in order to create a headline or two in the friendly press but that'll be about it. They will continue to revel in creating a mess in order to create disorder and conditions for a fairly radical change in our economy and in our society - the attacks on the NHS, the BBC, the Welfare state will only increase as will the communications strategy of trying to divide and target/blame sections of our community - the refugees, the immigrants, the unemployed, the ill and the minorities. 2022 is going to be a shit year for most unless you are rich and can funnel your money into tax havens abroad - contact JRM for advice on this.

Rant over!

[sturginho]

stop holding back dpedin tell us how you really feel!

[Slick]

Was just thinking we should add the Pandora Papers to this thread. Notice how silent the media had been on this subject.

Silent?

Are you kidding?

There have been 600 plus journalists working on this all over the World.

There is no fake news/MSM cover up, mate. And even if there were, you can't keep stuff secret when that many people know about it.

News just in for you: Britain is no longer the world.

PS John Pilger exposed this stuff decades ago.

Torq! Just stop! It is front page news across the media in the UK.

[tc27]

Personally I think the idea the government is doing anything in order to pursue some sinister long term objective is unbelievable.

Firstly it would imply a level of competence and planning they simply do not possess.

Secondly they clearly have no ideological attachment to 'rolling back the state' or deregulation in the way Thatcher did...I mean who on earth in government is driving that? The only real thinker is Gove and he is all about the 'levelling up' agenda which is basically a massive state intervention.

Its simply a government based on the Conservative rump of 'Vote Leave' campaign with its most charismatic and popular member as leader.

They got into a bidding war to deliver to purest and hardest form of Brexit because that what was needed to win support in the Conservative party and they are only now afterwards trying to deal with the consequences of doing so. They have no real plan or guiding ideology other than basic political populism.

The real lesson is not to empower people who advocate profound political and economic change without any real plan or idea how it will work out - I mean this used to be something the Conservatives stood for. Banning referendums and actually going back to parliamentary democracy would be a decent start IMO.

[Paddington Bear]

This government are clearly not arch-Thatcherites. Already covered this week but they had a sizeable governing majority during a genuine international crisis where nothing was off the table and used it to expand the size of the State. They're now hiking taxes on working people and corporations.
They've made the NHS one of the centrepieces of their political campaigning and have increased it's funding.

Pretending that they're on their way to privatising everything in a Mad Max free for all so they can personally profit is delusional and relies on seeing them as comic book villains rather than on their own terms - managerialists without pure ideological constraints struggling with the weight of responsibility on them during crises and hoping to be re-elected.

Dodgy donors will benefit from contracts, as they always have done under both parties. Beyond that, the rest of this stuff is pure delusion.

[Torquemada 1420]

Everything is an opportunity to enrich himself for the likes of Rees-Mogg. He's a true Catholic (Pardoner edition).

Indeed. Breeds like a fly to increase the number of brainwashed idiots serving Rome.

[tabascoboy]

Other than pouting and posturing the the current drive of the government seems only to have one aim, which is to stay in power in perpetuum ( which to be fair is common to any government, but without appearing to know how to handle it ( also true of many governments). Tories have always traditionally placed themselves as the strong allies and supporters of business and farming, which makes you wonder why they are currently so desperate to antagonize them when business and farmers are trying to finding a way to deal with complications from a mismanaged Brexit and worried about being undercut by cheap imports from poorly negotiated trade deals.

A "high wage, high skill" society sounds great and aspirational but who is going to fill the shelves in supermarkets and bargain shops, serve in food/drink outlets; collect our waste, clean the streets and toilets...? JObs like those are not going to be "high skill, high wage" just because they are filled by Brits. Singapore is often held up as an example of how Post Brexit free-trading Britain could be but even they depend on around 300 000 low paid migrant workers from India and Bangladesh.

[dpedin]

This government are clearly not arch-Thatcherites. Already covered this week but they had a sizeable governing majority during a genuine international crisis where nothing was off the table and used it to expand the size of the State. They're now hiking taxes on working people and corporations.
They've made the NHS one of the centrepieces of their political campaigning and have increased it's funding.

Pretending that they're on their way to privatising everything in a Mad Max free for all so they can personally profit is delusional and relies on seeing them as comic book villains rather than on their own terms - managerialists without pure ideological constraints struggling with the weight of responsibility on them during crises and hoping to be re-elected.

Dodgy donors will benefit from contracts, as they always have done under both parties. Beyond that, the rest of this stuff is pure delusion.

The NHS is an interesting one. An underfunded NHS is not a prime target for the private sector, they have nibbled around the edges and more profitable areas but struggled to take over large chunks. However to make it more attractive to private sector it has to be seen as profitable for them to invest in so any increase in funding is more about pump priming and getting it ready for sell off. The Health & Care Bill going through parliament will allow for private sector providers to have seats on the new Integrated Care Boards and there will be a relaxation of procurement regulations for those bodies. Samantha Jones, ex CEO of private Health Care provider of Operose (sub of large US healthcare firm) who has bought large numbers of GP practices in London, has been appointed as an expert advisor. The Secretary for Health is an ex Merchant Banker will little or no experience in healthcare whatsoever but brings other 'expertise' to the job. I think we should be worried!

[_Os_]

Personally I think the idea the government is doing anything in order to pursue some sinister long term objective is unbelievable.

Firstly it would imply a level of competence and planning they simply do not possess.

Secondly they clearly have no ideological attachment to 'rolling back the state' or deregulation in the way Thatcher did...I mean who on earth in government is driving that? The only real thinker is Gove and he is all about the 'levelling up' agenda which is basically a massive state intervention.

Its simply a government based on the Conservative rump of 'Vote Leave' campaign with its most charismatic and popular member as leader.

They got into a bidding war to deliver to purest and hardest form of Brexit because that what was needed to win support in the Conservative party and they are only now afterwards trying to deal with the consequences of doing so. They have no real plan or guiding ideology other than basic political populism.

The real lesson is not to empower people who advocate profound political and economic change without any real plan or idea how it will work out - I mean this used to be something the Conservatives stood for. Banning referendums and actually going back to parliamentary democracy would be a decent start IMO.

The MO of the current Tory party is a lot like African nationalists. The short version, is that there is an ideology.

I've lost track of all the conversations I've had down the years with Zimbabweans and South Africans, middle of the road well meaning people for the most part that claimed 1. ZANU-PF or the ANC had no agenda, when they clearly do and are piloting a revolution 2. They are incompetent so any plans they have do not matter in any case 3. They have no ideology and can be socialists one week and capitalists the next (usually the claim will then be they're actually some sort of pro-business capitalist) 4. That they're not the real ANC (or real ZANU-PF, but that claim died decades ago) and a popular leader has manipulated and hijacked the entire party.

The ideology of the Tories/Brexit supporters is basically that the UK is a global power equal to any other and consequently that the rules (laws of economics or whatever else) don't apply to the UK, and at a minimum immigrants must fuck off. Reality doesn't matter to them. This is why they can wave Thatcher around (I've even seen Rees-Mogg delivering a speech with a massive portrait of Thatcher attached to the podium he was speaking from, very African nationalist to have the dead great leader front and centre like that), it's not about Thatcher and what she actually did her greatest achievement being the Single Market very few people impacting an entire continent in peace time like that, it's purely about how she managed to emotionally recapture a sense of greatness. Mandela gets paraded all the time by people that use him highly selectively.

The other similarity is how they win support. The Tories are polling at 40% through a total shit show., which in the UK electoral system is a crushing majority. African nationalists always build an emotional connection with their supporters based around identity/race/language the mythology of a past war is always at the core of a lot of it, and also directly through patronage. Any opposing party is always demonised to the point where they're regarded as unpatriotic/foreign/traitors. The culture war stuff (British flags in every Zoom background), the constant hounding of immigrants in rhetoric and law, and the promises of leveling up are all about creating that connection, it's why the Tories are going after the most lumpen people they can find because it works better on them.

So what you end up is in fact a shared ideology, unevenly spread and understood because it's very messy, but it's there in the aggregate. None of it makes much sense and is a total mess, but depending on how strong the bond is between the party and its supporters the train ride can last quite a long time. The Tories should've been removed from government by now and shouldn't have been polling consistently at 40% this year, but they are, which means they can for sometime to come. And like the African nationalist the point of it for the Tory leadership is to engage in mass corruption, they did in fact roll out their agenda during the pandemic they stole billions and dispensed massive amounts of patronage on a grand scale. How the state is actually run (private or public ownership) is irrelevant to them, the deciding factor is what gives them the most power which they can use to steal.

[shereblue]

Everything is an opportunity to enrich himself for the likes of Rees-Mogg. He's a true Catholic (Pardoner edition).

....trying to divide and target/blame sections of our community - the refugees, the immigrants, the unemployed, the ill and the minorities. 2022 is going to be a shit year for most unless you are rich and can funnel your money into tax havens abroad - contact JRM for advice on this.....

"trying to" ?

and largely succeeding.

Dominic Raab, the thick cult-ist, recently elevated to Lord Chancellor, is already showcasing new depths of ignorance in his new role.

On the Everard-themed need for legislative change, he believes, God help us, that men can be victims of misogyny, as much as women.

More worryingly, he is predictably cheered to the rafters (and left unquestioned by the abetting media) when he promises an "overhaul" of the Human Rights Act based on the example of a succesful appeal against deportation by a Jamaican back in 2009.

Funnily enough, the very same case that had earned Theresa May the adulation of Conference many years ago. And, funnily enough, which had already led to an effective amendment to deportation law as long ago as 2014. Of which Raab is clearly unaware (or pretends to be).

My only consolation is that the good burghers of Esher will surely dispense with their Theresa May tribute act when next consulted.

[dpedin]

Personally I think the idea the government is doing anything in order to pursue some sinister long term objective is unbelievable.

Firstly it would imply a level of competence and planning they simply do not possess.

Secondly they clearly have no ideological attachment to 'rolling back the state' or deregulation in the way Thatcher did...I mean who on earth in government is driving that? The only real thinker is Gove and he is all about the 'levelling up' agenda which is basically a massive state intervention.

Its simply a government based on the Conservative rump of 'Vote Leave' campaign with its most charismatic and popular member as leader.

They got into a bidding war to deliver to purest and hardest form of Brexit because that what was needed to win support in the Conservative party and they are only now afterwards trying to deal with the consequences of doing so. They have no real plan or guiding ideology other than basic political populism.

The real lesson is not to empower people who advocate profound political and economic change without any real plan or idea how it will work out - I mean this used to be something the Conservatives stood for. Banning referendums and actually going back to parliamentary democracy would be a decent start IMO.

The MO of the current Tory party is a lot like African nationalists. The short version, is that there is an ideology.

I've lost track of all the conversations I've had down the years with Zimbabweans and South Africans, middle of the road well meaning people for the most part that claimed 1. ZANU-PF or the ANC had no agenda, when they clearly do and are piloting a revolution 2. They are incompetent so any plans they have do not matter in any case 3. They have no ideology and can be socialists one week and capitalists the next (usually the claim will then be they're actually some sort of pro-business capitalist) 4. That they're not the real ANC (or real ZANU-PF, but that claim died decades ago) and a popular leader has manipulated and hijacked the entire party.

The ideology of the Tories/Brexit supporters is basically that the UK is a global power equal to any other and consequently that the rules (laws of economics or whatever else) don't apply to the UK, and at a minimum immigrants must fuck off. Reality doesn't matter to them. This is why they can wave Thatcher around (I've even seen Rees-Mogg delivering a speech with a massive portrait of Thatcher attached to the podium he was speaking from, very African nationalist to have the dead great leader front and centre like that), it's not about Thatcher and what she actually did her greatest achievement being the Single Market very few people impacting an entire continent in peace time like that, it's purely about how she managed to emotionally recapture a sense of greatness. Mandela gets paraded all the time by people that use him highly selectively.

The other similarity is how they win support. The Tories are polling at 40% through a total shit show., which in the UK electoral system is a crushing majority. African nationalists always build an emotional connection with their supporters based around identity/race/language the mythology of a past war is always at the core of a lot of it, and also directly through patronage. Any opposing party is always demonised to the point where they're regarded as unpatriotic/foreign/traitors. The culture war stuff (British flags in every Zoom background), the constant hounding of immigrants in rhetoric and law, and the promises of leveling up are all about creating that connection, it's why the Tories are going after the most lumpen people they can find because it works better on them.

So what you end up is in fact a shared ideology, unevenly spread and understood because it's very messy, but it's there in the aggregate. None of it makes much sense and is a total mess, but depending on how strong the bond is between the party and its supporters the train ride can last quite a long time. The Tories should've been removed from government by now and shouldn't have been polling consistently at 40% this year, but they are, which means they can for sometime to come. And like the African nationalist the point of it for the Tory leadership is to engage in mass corruption, they did in fact roll out their agenda during the pandemic they stole billions and dispensed massive amounts of patronage on a grand scale. How the state is actually run (private or public ownership) is irrelevant to them, the deciding factor is what gives them the most power which they can use to steal.

Put better than my post - thanks!

My only hope is that these type of ideologically driven regime shit shows is that they tend to come tumbling down pretty fast and pretty messily. There is usually a trigger, it doesn't need to be a big issue but something that exposes the shallowness and crookedness of the regime to their supporters, the straw that breaks the camels back analogy. However they can do a lot of lasting damage and create division that takes a long time to repair. I get the feeling that more and more folk are sensing something is not quite right. some critical comments from R5 on BBC - suspect there will be a letter in the post.

Just listened to the Blonde Bumblecunts conference speech, less like a speech from a PM and more like an after dinner speech from a semi-literate, drunken, ex private school cricket captain. Loads of throw away jokes, slagging of opposition leaders and claims that didnt stack up. Ended up by trying to claim credit for the GB success at the olympics and paralympics and the English football team! Talk about rewriting history - the painting of the Afghanistan withdrawal as a great military success made me choke on my biscuits and cheese! Off to play golf now and to take it out on a wee white ball.

[shereblue]

Other than pouting and posturing the the current drive of the government seems only to have one aim, which is to stay in power in perpetuum ( which to be fair is common to any government, but without appearing to know how to handle it ( also true of many governments). Tories have always traditionally placed themselves as the strong allies and supporters of business and farming, which makes you wonder why they are currently so desperate to antagonize them when business and farmers are trying to finding a way to deal with complications from a mismanaged Brexit and worried about being undercut by cheap imports from poorly negotiated trade deals.

A "high wage, high skill" society sounds great and aspirational but who is going to fill the helves in supermarkets and bargain shops, serve in food/drink outlets; collect our waste, clean the streets and toilets...? JObs like those are not going to be "high skill, high wagse" just because they are filled by Brits. Singapore is often held up as an example of how Post Brexit free-trading Britain could be but even they depend on around 300 000 low paid migrant workers from India and Bangladesh.

I ask myself these questions all the time.

The Cult has wiped the slate clean on its past.

And now trades on culture wars, coupled with carefully unmeasurable aspiration "just around the corner".

Johnson is undoubtedly a master.

At what point however can one start to call the electorate "thick"?

[fishfoodie]

Everything is an opportunity to enrich himself for the likes of Rees-Mogg. He's a true Catholic (Pardoner edition).

Indeed. Breeds like a fly to increase the number of brainwashed idiots serving Rome.

Well at least he's still married to the childrens mother, & supporting them himself ...... unlike certain other people

[tabascoboy]

...
Just listened to the Blonde Bumblecunts conference speech, less like a speech from a PM and more like an after dinner speech from a semi-literate, drunken, ex private school cricket captain. Loads of throw away jokes, slagging of opposition leaders and claims that didnt stack up. Ended up by trying to claim credit for the GB success at the olympics and paralympics and the English football team! Talk about rewriting history - the painting of the Afghanistan withdrawal as a great military success made me choke on my biscuits and cheese! Off to play golf now and to take it out on a wee white ball.

These are never really designed for the consumption of the great unwashed like us though, it's a rallying call to his party - and as such can be dismissed as wind and piss.

[tc27]

The ideology of the Tories/Brexit supporters is basically that the UK is a global power equal to any other and consequently that the rules (laws of economics or whatever else) don't apply to the UK, and at a minimum immigrants must fuck off.

Think this is miles off...sure people like that probably all voted for Brexit and Conservative/Farage-vehicle but they probably represent a tiny percentage of those voters let alone the general population. Its emotionally satisfying to pigeonhole people who vote in a way you don't like in this way but not at all constructive.

[Biffer]

Johnson's speech this morning was basically a description of the shit state Britain is in after eleven years of Tory government.

[tabascoboy]

Johnson's speech this morning was basically a description of the shit state Britain is in after eleven years of Tory government.

Yeah but yeah but "levelling up"

Conservatives "will defend our history and cultural inheritance" against "cancel culture", he added.

House of Un-British Activities Committee when?

[robmatic]

Johnson's speech this morning was basically a description of the shit state Britain is in after eleven years of Tory government.

And they're still at 40% in the polls.

[SaintK]

Johnson's speech this morning was basically a description of the shit state Britain is in after eleven years of Tory government.

And they're still at 40% in the polls.

yep, unfortunately!

[fishfoodie]

Other than pouting and posturing the the current drive of the government seems only to have one aim, which is to stay in power in perpetuum ( which to be fair is common to any government, but without appearing to know how to handle it ( also true of many governments). Tories have always traditionally placed themselves as the strong allies and supporters of business and farming, which makes you wonder why they are currently so desperate to antagonize them when business and farmers are trying to finding a way to deal with complications from a mismanaged Brexit and worried about being undercut by cheap imports from poorly negotiated trade deals.

A "high wage, high skill" society sounds great and aspirational but who is going to fill the shelves in supermarkets and bargain shops, serve in food/drink outlets; collect our waste, clean the streets and toilets...? JObs like those are not going to be "high skill, high wage" just because they are filled by Brits. Singapore is often held up as an example of how Post Brexit free-trading Britain could be but even they depend on around 300 000 low paid migrant workers from India and Bangladesh.

This is the typical of the kind of vacuous bullshit that the bumblecunt comes out with; & probably thinks it makes him appear Churchillian.

No mention of how it's going to happen; or what will change; or how much it will cost, & be funded. Just a moronic tag line, & no detail; but then it frequently featured in reasons why the UK was going to become a superpower after Brexit, so it's no wonder there's no plan.

Ireland might claim to have had some success at this; but it's success, goes a long way to show why achieving it in the UK, at the moment, is delusional.

1) Demographics. When Ireland started on the program, it had >60% of it's population under 30; with unemployment >15%, & low wages.
2) Access to Education: When Ireland started, 3rd level education was easily accessible to all levels of society, & the EU funded a lot of trades, certificate, & diploma level STEM course; so Ireland had a large pool of educated, but under/unemployed workers.
3): EU membership: Which meant that anything produced in Ireland, could be easily exported to a huge market on it's doorstep.
4) FDI: 1+2+3 = perfect location to setup a manufacturing location

..
some time passes
..

5) Legacy: you now have a lot of experienced STEM graduates, who now see opportunities to create their own startups, & existing FDI (if they aren't complete idiots), realise that they now have a location that can't just punch out widgets; they have a pool of experienced people who can do R&D & add value to the company that way. This is also important; because while time passed, the wages being paid went up, as the workforce had to be kept; & now the earnings/employee have to be maintained.

[Paddington Bear]

Let's not pretend that the Irish transition to a high wage economy is not fundamentally down to being the conduit through which global corporates funnel their European earnings in a tax efficient manner. Not a moral criticism as the UK should have done it instead, let's just get real with each other here.

[Torquemada 1420]

Other than pouting and posturing the the current drive of the government seems only to have one aim, which is to stay in power in perpetuum ( which to be fair is common to any government, but without appearing to know how to handle it ( also true of many governments). Tories have always traditionally placed themselves as the strong allies and supporters of business and farming, which makes you wonder why they are currently so desperate to antagonize them when business and farmers are trying to finding a way to deal with complications from a mismanaged Brexit and worried about being undercut by cheap imports from poorly negotiated trade deals.

A "high wage, high skill" society sounds great and aspirational but who is going to fill the shelves in supermarkets and bargain shops, serve in food/drink outlets; collect our waste, clean the streets and toilets...? JObs like those are not going to be "high skill, high wage" just because they are filled by Brits. Singapore is often held up as an example of how Post Brexit free-trading Britain could be but even they depend on around 300 000 low paid migrant workers from India and Bangladesh.

Because they really are as dim as they appear.

The high skill bit is an absolute scream as decades of Govts (both sides) have watered down the education system in Britain to the point that it is a laughing stock.

[fishfoodie]

Let's not pretend that the Irish transition to a high wage economy is not fundamentally down to being the conduit through which global corporates funnel their European earnings in a tax efficient manner. Not a moral criticism as the UK should have done it instead, let's just get real with each other here.

This has been debunked so many times, I'd hoped that on here it wouldn't be trotted out as if it were gospel.

There certainly are brass plate companies, that do that; & there are, relatively recently, companies, that bring their earning in thru Ireland; but that wasn't how the celtic tiger started; & if that was all it was, it wouldn't employ tens of thousands, it could do with a dozen or so accountants !

Intel isn't investing billions in a 4th Fab in Ireland, to wash some cash.

[Tichtheid]

The Independent have identified just the eight lies/false claims made in Johnson's speech


The claim:

“After years of stagnation – more than a decade – wages are going up, faster than before the pandemic began.”

The reality:

The respected Institute for Fiscal Studies says wages are rising no faster than over recent years. Furthermore – while pay is up by about 4 per cent – inflation is above 3 per cent, so there is no “significant wage growth”.


The claim:

“We will make this country an even more attractive destination for foreign direct investment. We are already the number one.”

The reality:

Last month’s UN World Investment Report said foreign investment into the UK had “declined for the second year in a row” – leaving the UK the 16th largest recipient, down “five positions”.

The claim:

“It was not the government that made the wonder drug. It was capitalism that ensured that we had a vaccine in less than a year.”

The reality:

The AstraZeneca jab was made by scientists at Oxford University – through a programme that was overwhelmingly funded by taxpayers and charities, with less than 2 per cent from private funding.

The claim:

“We are going to use our Brexit freedoms to do things differently .... we have seen off the European Super League and protected grassroots football. We are doing at least eight freeports.”

The reality:

The Super League had nothing to do with the EU or Brexit – it was a private venture – while freeports were entirely possible as an EU member. In fact, the UK used to have seven.

The claim:

“We have done 68 free trade deals.”

The reality:

All but two are “rollovers” of deals that the UK already enjoyed as an EU member. The Japan deal added no significant extra, trade experts found – while the agreement with the EU itself is vastly inferior, causing a massive slump in exports.

The claim:

“This party that has looked after the NHS for most of its history should be the one to rise to the challenge – 48 new hospitals.”

The reality:

Many of the 48 promised are new units at existing hospitals, or major refurbishments of them, while others are rebuilds of community hospitals. In August, it was revealed that NHS bosses had been ordered to describe all such projects as “a new hospital”.

The claim:

“When I stood on the steps of Downing Street, I promised to fix this [social care] crisis. This government .... is going to get social care done.”

The reality:

In that speech, in July 2019, the prime minister said he already had “a clear plan we have prepared”. The plan took two years to emerge – and the vast majority of new funding will go to the NHS, not social care

The claim:

Labour “decided to oppose step four of the roadmap in July”, which would have meant the UK “would still be in lockdown”.

The reality:

Labour supported the lifting of social distancing restrictions – the key aspect of step four – reserving its criticism for ending the requirement to wear masks in crowded indoor settings and the lifting of work-from-home guidance.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 33390.html

[JM2K6]

The ideology of the Tories/Brexit supporters is basically that the UK is a global power equal to any other and consequently that the rules (laws of economics or whatever else) don't apply to the UK, and at a minimum immigrants must fuck off.

Think this is miles off...sure people like that probably all voted for Brexit and Conservative/Farage-vehicle but they probably represent a tiny percentage of those voters let alone the general population. Its emotionally satisfying to pigeonhole people who vote in a way you don't like in this way but not at all constructive.

Yeah well, study after study has shown that immigration was the primary reason people voted Leave, with "not wanting to have to follow the EU's laws" as the second most popular reason. Those with more nuanced approaches to voting Leave are the tiny percentage.

[SaintK]

So along with most of the right leaning think tanks, the CBI, the IOD and BCC, the band whose music was used were not at all happy with the Blonde Cunt's performance

Boris Johnson walked on stage to the soundtrack Blue Cassette, by the indie band Friendly Fires, before he gave his speech. The band is furious.

[Slick]

The ideology of the Tories/Brexit supporters is basically that the UK is a global power equal to any other and consequently that the rules (laws of economics or whatever else) don't apply to the UK, and at a minimum immigrants must fuck off.

Think this is miles off...sure people like that probably all voted for Brexit and Conservative/Farage-vehicle but they probably represent a tiny percentage of those voters let alone the general population. Its emotionally satisfying to pigeonhole people who vote in a way you don't like in this way but not at all constructive.

Yeah well, study after study has shown that immigration was the primary reason people voted Leave, with "not wanting to have to follow the EU's laws" as the second most popular reason. Those with more nuanced approaches to voting Leave are the tiny percentage.

I remember having a very long drawn out discussion with you where you said that Brexit definitely didn't have anything to do with immigration

[tabascoboy]

The Independent have identified just the eight lies/false claims made in Johnson's speech

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 33390.html

None of which will matter one iota to the target audience. Some of the tweets from Tory MPs about the speech only just stopped short of "Boris I so want to suck you off right now"

Oh and now...

A Tory MP has spoken out about the struggles of living on an MP’s salary, calling it ‘desperately difficult’ for some.

[fishfoodie]

A Tory MP has spoken out about the struggles of living on an MP’s salary, calling it ‘desperately difficult’ for some.

[/thread]

That is simultaneously, both breathtaking; & completely to be expected from the entitled cunts.

[salanya]

I genuinely don't understand how, after several weeks of fuel supply issues due to shortage of delivery drivers (an issue which is far from solved), and after 18 months of applauding our key workers (many of them 'low skilled' supermarket workers, cleaners, delivery drivers, and lower paid nursing/care staff) how the Tory leadership thought it was a good idea to push the 'High Wages for High Skills' line.

I understand even less how it isn't challenged more, or how anyone can even consider to accept this.

'Let's just totally ignore the issues we have, just growing pains, not like we need all those lower skilled jobs in future'
It's not like most businesses are struggling after a 18month global pandemic, they'll happily start increasing wages for all.

And where are the government's High Wages for NHS staff then - their pay rise is below inflation even.

I'm all for higher wages to boost the economy, but where is this money coming from?! And the 'Higher Skills' line should be hugely offensive to all those key workers in lower skilled jobs.
It's just political madness, and totally ignorant of the country they're governing. This is not some Tory utopia where everyone owns a house or two and has half a million pounds in the bank; this is an country with a growing and aging population, hugely reliant on services, which has more food banks than McDonalds restaurants - and it has a lot of McDonalds restaurants!!

[Line6 HXFX]

I genuinely don't understand how, after several weeks of fuel supply issues due to shortage of delivery drivers (an issue which is far from solved), and after 18 months of applauding our key workers (many of them 'low skilled' supermarket workers, cleaners, delivery drivers, and lower paid nursing/care staff) how the Tory leadership thought it was a good idea to push the 'High Wages for High Skills' line.

I understand even less how it isn't challenged more, or how anyone can even consider to accept this.

'Let's just totally ignore the issues we have, just growing pains, not like we need all those lower skilled jobs in future'
It's not like most businesses are struggling after a 18month global pandemic, they'll happily start increasing wages for all.

And where are the government's High Wages for NHS staff then - their pay rise is below inflation even.

I'm all for higher wages to boost the economy, but where is this money coming from?! And the 'Higher Skills' line should be hugely offensive to all those key workers in lower skilled jobs.
It's just political madness, and totally ignorant of the country they're governing. This is not some Tory utopia where everyone owns a house or two and has half a million pounds in the bank; this is an country with a growing and aging population, hugely reliant on services, which has more food banks than McDonalds restaurants - and it has a lot of McDonalds restaurants!!

Conservatives always play the optimism game, to try to cover up the sickening mess they make of things.
In life optimism is good well needed, noble thing.
In the hands of a Tory, it is a weapon they use to beat everyone else to death.
Never trust conservative optimism.


I remember when they shut down and made the whole of South Wales unemployed, because all these "old, industrial dirty jobs are crowding out clean, high skilled, high paying jobs", that would flood into the area immediately.
35 years later and only 19% of the jobs have been replaced and with low wage, low skilled zero hours contract shite.

Again, never trust Tory optimism.
And if they are pushing it, tragedy and despair are never far behind.