Exeter Chiefs chop and imagery

[Biffer]

I probably dislike Exeter as much if not more than any other club, I'm not defending them or their use of native American iconography. However, I don't think a very small minority fan's group from another club 200 miles away from Exeter is the way to deal with this. If those fans feel strongly about it then they should boycott watching Wasps the one time every year that Exeter play there and maybe hold up a few placards outside the ground. The way to deal with Exeter is to have a unified opposition with all the other Premiership club chairmen to put pressure on Rowe.

This is one of the dumbest things I've heard in a long time.

[Biffer]

The way to deal with Exeter is to have a unified opposition with all the other Premiership club chairmen to put pressure on Rowe.

Isn't this... exactly what the statement infers they're doing?

There was a time when people did things through channels other than social media. I'm no expert, but I reckon Rowe operates in those channels.

Yeah. Because they didn't have social media then you fucking idiot.

[lemonhead]

Let he who is without sin...

Nobody asked the bloody wasps, did they now?

[Kawazaki]

How would boycotting a home wasps game help?

They don't want to legitimise the game by paying to watch it. They either feel strongly about it or they don't.

Ok. So they're sending a message. Who are they sending the message to?

Wasps and Exeter.

Seems easier to just use email and Twitter etc.

Oh. They did use email and Twitter, which is is how we got to this point of wasps initiating the conversation with the league and rfu...

You seem to be busy arguing against what's been done by saying that they should do what they've done...

What part of 'not using social media to communicate with Rowe' didn't you understand in my earlier post?

[Biffer]

Let he who is without sin...

Nobody asked the bloody wasps, did they now?

So you're equating Native Americans to insects.

Do you see the problem there?

[lemonhead]

One could of course equate it with a pisstake but yes, I truly am a horrible racist.

Feckin hate wasps.

[Kawazaki]

Biffer is still smarting I see.

[Raggs]

They don't want to legitimise the game by paying to watch it. They either feel strongly about it or they don't.

Ok. So they're sending a message. Who are they sending the message to?

Wasps and Exeter.

Seems easier to just use email and Twitter etc.

Oh. They did use email and Twitter, which is is how we got to this point of wasps initiating the conversation with the league and rfu...

You seem to be busy arguing against what's been done by saying that they should do what they've done...

What part of 'not using social media to communicate with Rowe' didn't you understand in my earlier post?

I ignored it because it's a ridiculous stipulation.

[Kawazaki]

Ok. So they're sending a message. Who are they sending the message to?

Wasps and Exeter.

Seems easier to just use email and Twitter etc.

Oh. They did use email and Twitter, which is is how we got to this point of wasps initiating the conversation with the league and rfu...

You seem to be busy arguing against what's been done by saying that they should do what they've done...

What part of 'not using social media to communicate with Rowe' didn't you understand in my earlier post?

I ignored it because it's a ridiculous stipulation.

Would you conduct a performance review with your boss on Twitter? Or maybe discuss your haemorrhoids with your GP on Facebook?

There are other ways FFS.

[Raggs]

What part of 'not using social media to communicate with Rowe' didn't you understand in my earlier post?

I ignored it because it's a ridiculous stipulation.

Would you conduct a performance review with your boss on Twitter? Or maybe discuss your haemorrhoids with your GP on Facebook?

There are other ways FFS.

Standing outside your GPs office waving a banner proclaiming you have hemorrhoids seems a less efficient way of getting an appointment than tweeting them to be honest...

[SaintK]

I ignored it because it's a ridiculous stipulation.

Would you conduct a performance review with your boss on Twitter? Or maybe discuss your haemorrhoids with your GP on Facebook?

There are other ways FFS.

Standing outside your GPs office waving a banner proclaiming you have hemorrhoids seems a less efficient way of getting an appointment than tweeting them to be honest...

[inactionman]

Let he who is without sin...

Nobody asked the bloody wasps, did they now?

I'm not sure if the wasps would take offence, but my eyes certainly do.

I'm surprised Exeter don't just switch their iconography to an old English/early Britannic tribal chief - they could be truly woke and go for Boadicea.

Plenty of fun and games to be had with that, they could wheel the team out in chariots and grow long straggly beards and not wash. Although we perhaps wouldn't want to run the risk of accusations of appropriation from the Welsh. Looking at the barnets on show in the first XV they'd be all over the matted dreads look.

[Kawazaki]

Let he who is without sin...

Nobody asked the bloody wasps, did they now?

I'm not sure if the wasps would take offence, but my eyes certainly do.

I'm surprised Exeter don't just switch their iconography to an old English/early Britannic tribal chief - they could be truly woke and go for Boadicea.

Plenty of fun and games to be had with that, they could wheel the team out in chariots and grow long straggly beards and not wash. Although we perhaps wouldn't want to run the risk of accusations of appropriation from the Welsh. Looking at the barnets on show in the first XV they'd be all over the matted dreads look.

Boudicca was an Essex girl.

[Kawazaki]

I ignored it because it's a ridiculous stipulation.

Would you conduct a performance review with your boss on Twitter? Or maybe discuss your haemorrhoids with your GP on Facebook?

There are other ways FFS.

Standing outside your GPs office waving a banner proclaiming you have hemorrhoids seems a less efficient way of getting an appointment than tweeting them to be honest...

I thought the statement that sock posted up was from the Wasps management, not from the fan protest group?

[Raggs]

Would you conduct a performance review with your boss on Twitter? Or maybe discuss your haemorrhoids with your GP on Facebook?

There are other ways FFS.

Standing outside your GPs office waving a banner proclaiming you have hemorrhoids seems a less efficient way of getting an appointment than tweeting them to be honest...

I thought the statement that sock posted up was from the Wasps management, not from the fan protest group?

Then who were you suggesting boycotted the match? Wasps themselves stand outside their stadium and refuse to play?

[Kawazaki]

Standing outside your GPs office waving a banner proclaiming you have hemorrhoids seems a less efficient way of getting an appointment than tweeting them to be honest...

I thought the statement that sock posted up was from the Wasps management, not from the fan protest group?

Then who were you suggesting boycotted the match? Wasps themselves stand outside their stadium and refuse to play?

I've said already how I think Wasps should communicate with Rowe, read the thread. You're talking about how the protest group should communicate with Wasps. Something they've clearly already done hence the statement from Wasps.

[SaintK]

Boudicca was an Essex girl.

Norfolk?

[Kawazaki]

Boudicca was an Essex girl.

Norfolk?

She married well! Thought she was from Epping?

Either way, a long way from Exeter!

[Lobby]

Boudicca was an Essex girl.

Norfolk?

She married well! Thought she was from Epping?

Either way, a long way from Exeter!

Closer to Exeter than North America though.

[Openside]

Just out of interest do the Highlanders in Dunedin have similar issues, with stereotypical imagery etc. ?

[I like neeps]

Just out of interest do the Highlanders in Dunedin have similar issues, with stereotypical imagery etc. ?

No because the Highlanders aren't a persecuted people. If the Exeter Chiefs team was formed by native American chiefs it would be totally fine. The same with the Washington Football Team and Kansas City Chiefs. The issue is when it's a load of white people using it as a marketing ploy.

If Exeter Chiefs rebranded big Chief to be Boudicca for example it would obviously be fine. Which they could easily do there were loads of tribes with chiefs in England way back when.

[Raggs]

I thought the statement that sock posted up was from the Wasps management, not from the fan protest group?

Then who were you suggesting boycotted the match? Wasps themselves stand outside their stadium and refuse to play?

I've said already how I think Wasps should communicate with Rowe, read the thread. You're talking about how the protest group should communicate with Wasps. Something they've clearly already done hence the statement from Wasps.

I would say you're being dense, but I think you're being dense and trying to dance around your fuck ups.

You talked about the protest group boycotting a home game for wasps instead of approaching wasps via social media. Wasps were approached via social media, responded via social media and said they'd taken it up with RFU, PRL and the new diversity group.

[yermum]

No because the Highlanders aren't a persecuted people.

The Highland culture is still thriving in Scotland I guess...

[I like neeps]

No because the Highlanders aren't a persecuted people.

The Highland culture is still thriving in Scotland I guess...

You'd do well to claim they're actually a distinct ethnic group with a culture. In any case the "Highlanders from Scotland" went to South Island New Zealand and set up societies the influence of which is apparently still felt today. You'll have to educate me on the native Americans in South west England and the impact they had. I think unfortunately people who don't understand this don't really understand the problem at all.

[Niegs]

Exeter are thinking of switching to this. Bunch of English lads respecting tough, warrior Scottish culture, what what!

[yermum]

No because the Highlanders aren't a persecuted people.

The Highland culture is still thriving in Scotland I guess...

You'd do well to claim they're actually a distinct ethnic group with a culture. In any case the "Highlanders from Scotland" went to South Island New Zealand and set up societies the influence of which is apparently still felt today. You'll have to educate me on the native Americans in South west England and the impact they had. I think unfortunately people who don't understand this don't really understand the problem at all.

My point badly made was that Highland culture was persecuted pretty much out of existence.

I agree mostly. the whole chiefs thing is a bad hangover of the early days of professionalism where teams looked at Gridiron/League about how to market a professional team. Using Native American iconography is particularly lazy and unimaginative and in this day and age dumb.

I remember the Irish Provinces adopting animal names for a bit (Leinster Lions/ Munster Stags/ Connacht Eagles) it was shit and they rightly went back to the provincial names.

[Niegs]

The Highland culture is still thriving in Scotland I guess...

You'd do well to claim they're actually a distinct ethnic group with a culture. In any case the "Highlanders from Scotland" went to South Island New Zealand and set up societies the influence of which is apparently still felt today. You'll have to educate me on the native Americans in South west England and the impact they had. I think unfortunately people who don't understand this don't really understand the problem at all.

My point badly made was that Highland culture was persecuted pretty much out of existence.

I agree mostly. the whole chiefs thing is a bad hangover of the early days of professionalism where teams looked at Gridiron/League about how to market a professional team. Using Native American iconography is particularly lazy and unimaginative and in this day and age dumb.

I remember the Irish Provinces adopting animal names for a bit (Leinster Lions/ Munster Stags/ Connacht Eagles) it was shit and they rightly went back to the provincial names.

Which is why I thought it was weird the Bristol adopted 'Bears' and ... while I'm not sure if Gloucester call themselves 'lions', they've replaced that great crest with a Yank style logo now too. :(

[sockwithaticket]

You'd do well to claim they're actually a distinct ethnic group with a culture. In any case the "Highlanders from Scotland" went to South Island New Zealand and set up societies the influence of which is apparently still felt today. You'll have to educate me on the native Americans in South west England and the impact they had. I think unfortunately people who don't understand this don't really understand the problem at all.

My point badly made was that Highland culture was persecuted pretty much out of existence.

I agree mostly. the whole chiefs thing is a bad hangover of the early days of professionalism where teams looked at Gridiron/League about how to market a professional team. Using Native American iconography is particularly lazy and unimaginative and in this day and age dumb.

I remember the Irish Provinces adopting animal names for a bit (Leinster Lions/ Munster Stags/ Connacht Eagles) it was shit and they rightly went back to the provincial names.

Which is why I thought it was weird the Bristol adopted 'Bears' and ... while I'm not sure if Gloucester call themselves 'lions', they've replaced that great crest with a Yank style logo now too. :(

Travesty.

[I like neeps]

The Highland culture is still thriving in Scotland I guess...

You'd do well to claim they're actually a distinct ethnic group with a culture. In any case the "Highlanders from Scotland" went to South Island New Zealand and set up societies the influence of which is apparently still felt today. You'll have to educate me on the native Americans in South west England and the impact they had. I think unfortunately people who don't understand this don't really understand the problem at all.

My point badly made was that Highland culture was persecuted pretty much out of existence.

I agree mostly. the whole chiefs thing is a bad hangover of the early days of professionalism where teams looked at Gridiron/League about how to market a professional team. Using Native American iconography is particularly lazy and unimaginative and in this day and age dumb.

I remember the Irish Provinces adopting animal names for a bit (Leinster Lions/ Munster Stags/ Connacht Eagles) it was shit and they rightly went back to the provincial names.

What parts of highlander culture were persecuted out of existence? I guess you can make some argument about the Highland clearances but that was a net benefit to NZ and the Scottish influences have remain? I think contextually it's 100% different.

I absolutely agree it's really lazy and unimaginative. Apparently there is something to do with chiefs down in Exeter rugby. But not Native American chiefs so use the iconography of the other chiefs and it's totally fine.

[Kawazaki]

Then who were you suggesting boycotted the match? Wasps themselves stand outside their stadium and refuse to play?

I've said already how I think Wasps should communicate with Rowe, read the thread. You're talking about how the protest group should communicate with Wasps. Something they've clearly already done hence the statement from Wasps.

I would say you're being dense, but I think you're being dense and trying to dance around your fuck ups.

You talked about the protest group boycotting a home game for wasps instead of approaching wasps via social media. Wasps were approached via social media, responded via social media and said they'd taken it up with RFU, PRL and the new diversity group.

Actually you're being dense. I've said that Wasps communicating via social media is the wrong way to communicate this with Rowe. You've been conflating how the protest group chose to communicate with Wasps.

There are different back channels that would be far more effective along with unanimity from the other Premiership club chairmen/CEOs than that statement from Wasps via social media.

[Raggs]

Have you read the statement? Which is a reply to those who did contact them via social media.

[Kawazaki]

Have you read the statement? Which is a reply to those who did contact them via social media.

Yes, and I made the comment that the group is likely small enough that the Wasps CEO could have spoken to each of them individually. Have you actually read this thread?!

[Raggs]

Have you read the statement? Which is a reply to those who did contact them via social media.

Yes, and I made the comment that the group is likely small enough that the Wasps CEO could have spoken to each of them individually. Have you actually read this thread?!

I give up....

[Niegs]

Travesty.

Ugh... I'm still bitter over it. Glad I got a shirt with that old crest, which is one of the best, imo. When I lived over there, I could see The Memorial from my bedroom. Were always my second club after Wasps. I was coaching youth at Clifton, so try to support the ladies (their best rolled into the Bristol setup), and I like what Lam did with them, but the branding and move to Ashton ... red in the kit ... still not over that yet.

[Sinkers]

Looks like they’d be Dumnonii - not the most catchy

[Slick]

You'd do well to claim they're actually a distinct ethnic group with a culture. In any case the "Highlanders from Scotland" went to South Island New Zealand and set up societies the influence of which is apparently still felt today. You'll have to educate me on the native Americans in South west England and the impact they had. I think unfortunately people who don't understand this don't really understand the problem at all.

My point badly made was that Highland culture was persecuted pretty much out of existence.

I agree mostly. the whole chiefs thing is a bad hangover of the early days of professionalism where teams looked at Gridiron/League about how to market a professional team. Using Native American iconography is particularly lazy and unimaginative and in this day and age dumb.

I remember the Irish Provinces adopting animal names for a bit (Leinster Lions/ Munster Stags/ Connacht Eagles) it was shit and they rightly went back to the provincial names.

What parts of highlander culture were persecuted out of existence? I guess you can make some argument about the Highland clearances but that was a net benefit to NZ and the Scottish influences have remain? I think contextually it's 100% different.

I absolutely agree it's really lazy and unimaginative. Apparently there is something to do with chiefs down in Exeter rugby. But not Native American chiefs so use the iconography of the other chiefs and it's totally fine.

Neeps, I’m a bit confused by this - I may have the wrong end of the stick. But are you arguing against the fact that highland culture in Scotland was decimated by persecution? I find that a really odd stance, particularly from a Scot

[I like neeps]

My point badly made was that Highland culture was persecuted pretty much out of existence.

I agree mostly. the whole chiefs thing is a bad hangover of the early days of professionalism where teams looked at Gridiron/League about how to market a professional team. Using Native American iconography is particularly lazy and unimaginative and in this day and age dumb.

I remember the Irish Provinces adopting animal names for a bit (Leinster Lions/ Munster Stags/ Connacht Eagles) it was shit and they rightly went back to the provincial names.

What parts of highlander culture were persecuted out of existence? I guess you can make some argument about the Highland clearances but that was a net benefit to NZ and the Scottish influences have remain? I think contextually it's 100% different.

I absolutely agree it's really lazy and unimaginative. Apparently there is something to do with chiefs down in Exeter rugby. But not Native American chiefs so use the iconography of the other chiefs and it's totally fine.

Neeps, I’m a bit confused by this - I may have the wrong end of the stick. But are you arguing against the fact that highland culture in Scotland was decimated by persecution? I find that a really odd stance, particularly from a Scot

No yermum seems to have suggested that and I completely disagree, unless they badly misunderstand the Highland clearances.

[Slick]

I’m very confused

[Tichtheid]

Brighton rugby club was formed in 1868 and as such were named Brighton Football Club as they predated codification.

I was shocked , well, surprised, to see that they’d changed their name to Brighton Blues, but now I see they’ve changed back, adding the (RFU) suffix

Edinburgh were Edinburgh Gunners until the threat of being sued by Arsenal reared its head

[Paddington Bear]

Otago Highlanders seems a bizarre point of comparison given they're a team in a part of the world in part founded by Highland emigrants and play in a city called Dunedin ffs.