EOYT Pt 4: 1pm Sco v Jap, Ita v Uru | 3.15pm Eng v SA | 5.30p Wal v Aus | 8p Fra v NZ | Sun 2.15p Ire v Arg

[Lobby]

Smith has to be commended for the way he handled the pressure and helped us come from behind. He hasn't cut apart anyone in the last two tests but then that can't be a surprise given how large the gap in standard between Tier 1 test sides and the Prem is.

What's striking though is how much fear he seemed to put into both SA and Australia. He's clearly being double marked which opens up a lot of opportunities with a second distributor.

Also not a surprise given that Farrell was in the first receiver position for most of the Australia game, and the England pack was being pulverised for much of the SA game. England hardly had any ball in the last 60 minutes of that match, but still managed to score one try in that period, and could have had another if they'd not been called back for the Kolisi yellow card.

[Slick]

Slick is always on the lookout for any sign of English hype - eyes like a hawk, that guy. Seems to have forgotten he thought Smith was the best 10 on the Lions tour mind.

Oh, and he has form with Smith

Oh dear.

Apologies all. Smith was utterly amazing, probably the best thing to come out of England and definitely the best to come out of Quins which is also the greatest rugby club in the world, like, eva.

Someone didn't like the mirror, I see

It's just a bit bizarre to be honest.

Tried very hard to make it clear I wasn't down on Smith just wanted a chat about the game at the weekend. A fellow Quins supporter agreed, and a fellow England supporter gave him some cautious backing, but you came out all guns blazing having gone to the trouble of searching for past comments, then use one where I make it clear again it's a genuine question because I hadn't seem much of him.

I have also posted 4 or 5 times this weekend about how amazing Steward is and I seem to be the one giving him more hype than any England supporter.

As I say, bizarre.

[JM2K6]

Oh dear.

Apologies all. Smith was utterly amazing, probably the best thing to come out of England and definitely the best to come out of Quins which is also the greatest rugby club in the world, like, eva.

Someone didn't like the mirror, I see

It's just a bit bizarre to be honest.

Tried very hard to make it clear I wasn't down on Smith just wanted a chat about the game at the weekend. A fellow Quins supporter agreed, and a fellow England supporter gave him some cautious backing, but you came out all guns blazing having gone to the trouble of searching for past comments, then use one where I make it clear again it's a genuine question because I hadn't seem much of him.

I have also posted 4 or 5 times this weekend about how amazing Steward is and I seem to be the one giving him more hype than any England supporter.

As I say, bizarre.

I think you might be taking this all a little bit too seriously.

[Slick]

righto

[JM2K6]

Was my use of Quentin's catchphrase too subtle?

[SaintK]

Oh dear.

Apologies all. Smith was utterly amazing, probably the best thing to come out of England and definitely the best to come out of Quins which is also the greatest rugby club in the world, like, eva.

Someone didn't like the mirror, I see

It's just a bit bizarre to be honest.

Tried very hard to make it clear I wasn't down on Smith just wanted a chat about the game at the weekend. A fellow Quins supporter agreed, and a fellow England supporter gave him some cautious backing, but you came out all guns blazing having gone to the trouble of searching for past comments, then use one where I make it clear again it's a genuine question because I hadn't seem much of him.

I have also posted 4 or 5 times this weekend about how amazing Steward is and I seem to be the one giving him more hype than any England supporter.

As I say, bizarre.

I'll go with Eddie. He's work a in progress and can be a very, very good player if he keeps working hard.

[Paddington Bear]

The serious element is we've clearly got a talent and he's got a head on him as well. Likewise Quirke who could have absolutely melted under the pressure of the world champs after he got charged down. I had my doubts about both on that front and happy to be proven wrong. Given that, there's a genuine opportunity to build a side around them that could last the best part of a decade, and there's enough time for this to be a fixture before the next World Cup.

Cautious optimism.

[JM2K6]

Think Marcus has already shown he has a gigantic pair of bollocks on him tbh. He's pulled it out of the fire on countless occasions for Quins and I can't think of another fly-half I'd want in those crunch moments. Whether he'll be allowed to play his natural game is another thing, losing Tuilagi so early meant a huge change and we ended up with a team with barely a big carrier in there.

[Paddington Bear]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-59372210

This is a far from ideal headline for the sport. I maintain that 90% of these issues have as their cause stewards not doing/not empowered to do their job. A man who is so drunk he can't speak and vomits on a child is very much distinguishable from someone who's had a couple too many.

[Torquemada 1420]

Congratulations England. Can't argue with 3 (very good) tries to 1.

Smith and Steward look like very bright stars for the future.

Was Smith really that good? I think he is very talented and that was a hell of a game for his first start (?) but I've read a lot this weekend about how amazing he was and I didn't really see that. To be clear, I'm not saying he is anything but a very talented young player, but there does seem to be an element of hype.

Steward was awesome and I think will be the difference in a good few games in the 6N. He was on Saturday.

Smith was playing behind a pack that was beaten up more than a 1965 Trabant so was always going to be a tough gig.

[Raggs]

Think Eddie deserves a bit of credit here. We had a scrum that was absolutely mullered, but managed to buy a couple of penalties early on. A lineout that was severely under the pump too. Playing a truly destructive mauling team too, where again the older/stronger looseheads could have helped a lot being on earlier.

And yet, despite being so enormously behind on the penalty count, we won...

[assfly]

A man who is so drunk he can't speak and vomits on a child is very much distinguishable from someone who's had a couple too many.

That's the sentence I needed to get me through this Monday.

[Paddington Bear]

Think Eddie deserves a bit of credit here. We had a scrum that was absolutely mullered, but managed to buy a couple of penalties early on. A lineout that was severely under the pump too. Playing a truly destructive mauling team too, where again the older/stronger looseheads could have helped a lot being on earlier.

And yet, despite being so enormously behind on the penalty count, we won...

Yes and we clearly had set moves prepared to swing the balance. Third try was straight off the training ground.
He had a plan and the guys went out and executed it. Also changed tack on never really changing 9s. Hopefully this win gets the monkey off his back that has been the Springboks for the last two years.

[SaintK]

So from the matches I watched this autumn
Best Team
Ireland.

Best Match
France v All Blacks

Best Player(s)
Caelen Doris, Gael Fickou. Honourable mentions to Eben Etzebeth and Damian De Allende

Best young player
Freddie Steward

Best try
Nayacalevu for Fiji against Wales

Best nearly try
The breakout by N'Tamack from behind his own goal line against the AB's

[Torquemada 1420]

Think Eddie deserves a bit of credit here. We had a scrum that was absolutely mullered, but managed to buy a couple of penalties early on. A lineout that was severely under the pump too. Playing a truly destructive mauling team too, where again the older/stronger looseheads could have helped a lot being on earlier.

And yet, despite being so enormously behind on the penalty count, we won...

You won largely because SA refused to play any rugby. OK: you can only play what's in front of you but even Jones cannot dictate how opponents choose to squander possession.

As for those pens, Owens has commented in the Torygraph that they were incorrect as was the decision not to bin Ewels "it was definitely head shot with a swinging arm. That has to constitute foul play."

[JM2K6]

Think Eddie deserves a bit of credit here. We had a scrum that was absolutely mullered, but managed to buy a couple of penalties early on. A lineout that was severely under the pump too. Playing a truly destructive mauling team too, where again the older/stronger looseheads could have helped a lot being on earlier.

And yet, despite being so enormously behind on the penalty count, we won...

You won largely because SA refused to play any rugby. OK: you can only play what's in front of you but even Jones cannot dictate how opponents choose to squander possession.

As for those pens, Owens has commented in the Torygraph that they were incorrect as was the decision not to bin Ewels "it was definitely head shot with a swinging arm. That has to constitute foul play."

Good for Owens.

[Uncle fester]

Georgia are complete shit, yeah. It's been a long time since they were realistically good enough to consider adding to the 6N.

They are a bit, but they do seem to have the rugby infrastructure to improve rapidly if given a bit of an investment in time and money

There are some oligarch types in Georgia who are willing to invest in rugby, apparently. But there is also a certain amount of political risk which the 6N would have to take into account - the likelihood of coups, civil unrest etc. In playing terms they are way off being even at the standard of Italy and when Scotland became the first Tier 1 country to visit Georgia a couple of years ago they could only fill half the stadium. There is definitely more interest in the games they have against Russia.

Tbilisi is a decent weekend trip though.

Not too much risk of coups unless the Russians start interfering again.

[Uncle fester]

So from the matches I watched this autumn
Best Team
Ireland.

Best Match
France v All Blacks

Best Player(s)
Caelen Doris, Gael Fickou. Honourable mentions to Eben Etzebeth and Damian De Allende

Best young player
Freddie Steward

Best try
Nayacalevu for Fiji against Wales

Best nearly try
The breakout by N'Tamack from behind his own goal line against the AB's

That's fair enough. Dupont gets a lot of the plaudits but Fickou is such an elegant player to watch and if his elegance doesn't do the trick, he's a flipping tank as well.

Lions tour a year too early for Doris and Keenan.

[Raggs]

Think Eddie deserves a bit of credit here. We had a scrum that was absolutely mullered, but managed to buy a couple of penalties early on. A lineout that was severely under the pump too. Playing a truly destructive mauling team too, where again the older/stronger looseheads could have helped a lot being on earlier.

And yet, despite being so enormously behind on the penalty count, we won...

Yes and we clearly had set moves prepared to swing the balance. Third try was straight off the training ground.
He had a plan and the guys went out and executed it. Also changed tack on never really changing 9s. Hopefully this win gets the monkey off his back that has been the Springboks for the last two years.

Clear strategy with restarts too. Smash Le Roux to shake him, then mix it up after they think they know what to expect with the short to Itoje.

I like going straight down the middle for restarts too. There's zero counter attack potential (especially on a side as conservative as SA), but it's really tough to clear to touch or even put in a very good competitive up and under.

[sockwithaticket]

Think Eddie deserves a bit of credit here. We had a scrum that was absolutely mullered, but managed to buy a couple of penalties early on. A lineout that was severely under the pump too. Playing a truly destructive mauling team too, where again the older/stronger looseheads could have helped a lot being on earlier.

And yet, despite being so enormously behind on the penalty count, we won...

You won largely because SA refused to play any rugby. OK: you can only play what's in front of you but even Jones cannot dictate how opponents choose to squander possession.

As for those pens, Owens has commented in the Torygraph that they were incorrect as was the decision not to bin Ewels "it was definitely head shot with a swinging arm. That has to constitute foul play."

He's got a column to sell/clicks to generate, which is going to be more effective at achieving the goal - disagreeing with calls or saying Brace got everything spot on?


Besides, conning pens out of the ref is half of what scrummaging's about. Well played to our front row if they managed to paint that picture and be rewarded.

[Paddington Bear]

Think Eddie deserves a bit of credit here. We had a scrum that was absolutely mullered, but managed to buy a couple of penalties early on. A lineout that was severely under the pump too. Playing a truly destructive mauling team too, where again the older/stronger looseheads could have helped a lot being on earlier.

And yet, despite being so enormously behind on the penalty count, we won...

You won largely because SA refused to play any rugby. OK: you can only play what's in front of you but even Jones cannot dictate how opponents choose to squander possession.

As for those pens, Owens has commented in the Torygraph that they were incorrect as was the decision not to bin Ewels "it was definitely head shot with a swinging arm. That has to constitute foul play."

Nigel Owens would have penalised England? More on this shocking revelation inside.

[Torquemada 1420]

Nigel Owens would have penalised England? More on this shocking revelation inside.

I think his career was more about not penalising anything Irish rather than anything specific against Eng.

[Paddington Bear]

Nigel Owens would have penalised England? More on this shocking revelation inside.

I think his career was more about not penalising anything Irish rather than anything specific against Eng.

I think he's an impressive man and has done a lot for the sport. I am also delighted to never have to see him referee England again.

[sockwithaticket]

Nigel Owens would have penalised England? More on this shocking revelation inside.

I think his career was more about not penalising anything Irish rather than anything specific against Eng.

There've definitely been moments that suggested the latter, especially when he was a touch judge rather than ref. I wish I could remember the specific game, but I think it was an AI against Australia where he wanted to intervene for a penalty against England, but, on review, it ended up being one against Australia. Very gratifying. There's also the 2014 1st test in New Zealand knock on debacle where every ball dropped by England, even the ones that went clearly backwards, were deemed to have travelled forwards. Prick.

[Torquemada 1420]

Nigel Owens would have penalised England? More on this shocking revelation inside.

I think his career was more about not penalising anything Irish rather than anything specific against Eng.

There've definitely been moments that suggested the latter, especially when he was a touch judge rather than ref. I wish I could remember the specific game, but I think it was an AI against Australia where he wanted to intervene for a penalty against England, but, on review, it ended up being one against Australia. Very gratifying. There's also the 2014 1st test in New Zealand knock on debacle where every ball dropped by England, even the ones that went clearly backwards, were deemed to have travelled forwards. Prick.

I can't be arsed to try and find it, but there was an Ire v Fra game where Ire went a record period without conceding a pen........ and given their history of borderline breakdown tactics.
One HEC campaign, he reffed so many Munster games, Munster practically booked his hotels and flights for him.

[Lemoentjie]

Someone can tell me what O'Mahony says after the Lavanini flying shoulder? The only word I understand is 'fuck'

[laurent]

Someone can tell me what O'Mahony says after the Lavanini flying shoulder? The only word I understand is 'fuck'

Feckin' Idjit' most likely

Have not seen it yet

[NeilOJism]

Something like “fucking scumbag move - you knew exactly what you were doing. Begorrah. Bejaysus”.

I might have imagined the last bit

[Torquemada 1420]

Someone can tell me what O'Mahony says after the Lavanini flying shoulder? The only word I understand is 'fuck'

"Bye".

[JM2K6]

POM later walked it back, saying that Lavanini had only hundredths of a second to react, yadda yadda. The usual self serving bullshit that comes out when players don't want to face the fact that what they've been doing (and training to do) for years is fucking dangerous and illegal.

Maybe if you have no time to react you have no grounds for steaming in and risking serious injury to a vulnerable player?! Just a thought.

[Wrinkles]

I think his career was more about not penalising anything Irish rather than anything specific against Eng.

There've definitely been moments that suggested the latter, especially when he was a touch judge rather than ref. I wish I could remember the specific game, but I think it was an AI against Australia where he wanted to intervene for a penalty against England, but, on review, it ended up being one against Australia. Very gratifying. There's also the 2014 1st test in New Zealand knock on debacle where every ball dropped by England, even the ones that went clearly backwards, were deemed to have travelled forwards. Prick.

I can't be arsed to try and find it, but there was an Ire v Fra game where Ire went a record period without conceding a pen........ and given their history of borderline breakdown tactics.
One HEC campaign, he reffed so many Munster games, Munster practically booked his hotels and flights for him.

That was Croke Park 2009. First penalty against Ireland was given a few minutes before the final whistle, quickly followed by a couple of others. France were penalised something like 11 times before that. Definitely wasn’t a late effort to even-up the stats. Oh, no. Think that was the start of the o’Wens nickname.

[Raggs]

POM later walked it back, saying that Lavanini had only hundredths of a second to react, yadda yadda. The usual self serving bullshit that comes out when players don't want to face the fact that what they've been doing (and training to do) for years is fucking dangerous and illegal.

Maybe if you have no time to react you have no grounds for steaming in and risking serious injury to a vulnerable player?! Just a thought.

Well that, and POM isn't exactly whiter than white himself. Albeit no one is quite on Lavanini's level at the moment

[PCPhil]

POM later walked it back, saying that Lavanini had only hundredths of a second to react, yadda yadda. The usual self serving bullshit that comes out when players don't want to face the fact that what they've been doing (and training to do) for years is fucking dangerous and illegal.

Maybe if you have no time to react you have no grounds for steaming in and risking serious injury to a vulnerable player?! Just a thought.

Well that, and POM isn't exactly whiter than white himself. Albeit no one is quite on Lavanini's level at the moment

At one point I definitely heard him say, “Scumbag that y’aaaaar”. Try saying it like a pirate for realism. The rest was bewildering.

[Torquemada 1420]

There've definitely been moments that suggested the latter, especially when he was a touch judge rather than ref. I wish I could remember the specific game, but I think it was an AI against Australia where he wanted to intervene for a penalty against England, but, on review, it ended up being one against Australia. Very gratifying. There's also the 2014 1st test in New Zealand knock on debacle where every ball dropped by England, even the ones that went clearly backwards, were deemed to have travelled forwards. Prick.

I can't be arsed to try and find it, but there was an Ire v Fra game where Ire went a record period without conceding a pen........ and given their history of borderline breakdown tactics.
One HEC campaign, he reffed so many Munster games, Munster practically booked his hotels and flights for him.

That was Croke Park 2009. First penalty against Ireland was given a few minutes before the final whistle, quickly followed by a couple of others. France were penalised something like 11 times before that. Definitely wasn’t a late effort to even-up the stats. Oh, no. Think that was the start of the o’Wens nickname.

Well recalled.

[Torquemada 1420]

POM later walked it back, saying that Lavanini had only hundredths of a second to react, yadda yadda. The usual self serving bullshit that comes out when players don't want to face the fact that what they've been doing (and training to do) for years is fucking dangerous and illegal.

Maybe if you have no time to react you have no grounds for steaming in and risking serious injury to a vulnerable player?! Just a thought.

I'm with you on this one. Have said before, IMHO the ruck law should be changed so you have to bind with an opponent before pushing. No more exocets.

[Chilli]

[Paddington Bear]

POM later walked it back, saying that Lavanini had only hundredths of a second to react, yadda yadda. The usual self serving bullshit that comes out when players don't want to face the fact that what they've been doing (and training to do) for years is fucking dangerous and illegal.

Maybe if you have no time to react you have no grounds for steaming in and risking serious injury to a vulnerable player?! Just a thought.

I'm with you on this one. Have said before, IMHO the ruck law should be changed so you have to bind with an opponent before pushing. No more exocets.

Not sure it needs a law change. The risk you run flying in of a penalty all the way to a red is far, far higher than the reward (slightly speeding up slow ball). Problem is too many players have had years of being told that dominating the hit is the be all and end all.

[Torquemada 1420]

A man who is so drunk he can't speak and vomits on a child is very much distinguishable from someone who's had a couple too many.

Not a good few weeks for the Welsh and alcohol to go with the pitch invader and the punch up with SA fans after the same game (by the press box).

[fishfoodie]

A man who is so drunk he can't speak and vomits on a child is very much distinguishable from someone who's had a couple too many.

Not a good few weeks for the Welsh and alcohol to go with the pitch invader and the punch up with SA fans after the same game (by the press box).

If you were running a bar, & you had the rozzers being called that often; you could expect trouble the next time your license came up for renewal !

The bar staff should have seen they were pissed, & stopped serving them; & the stewards should be watching them going back to their seats, & intervening. If the WRU, or any other Union can't manage the problem; then they shouldn't be allowed to serve anything stronger than Budweiser.

[lemonhead]

POM later walked it back, saying that Lavanini had only hundredths of a second to react, yadda yadda. The usual self serving bullshit that comes out when players don't want to face the fact that what they've been doing (and training to do) for years is fucking dangerous and illegal.

Maybe if you have no time to react you have no grounds for steaming in and risking serious injury to a vulnerable player?! Just a thought.

Well that, and POM isn't exactly whiter than white himself. Albeit no one is quite on Lavanini's level at the moment

Probably biased here but that's kind of the takeaway I got, he didn't want to be hypocritical about it.