The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

[Slick]

My biggest concerns for the six nations are lack of a reliable lineout, lack of a reliable goal kicker, and stupid penalties conceded under little pressure. If we fix them I think 3/5 is very realistic.

Also concerned Townsend actually uses the 6/2 bench. Last year for example Vs Ireland they were comfortable until Huw Jones came on. Not saying Jones should pay because he needs to get in the Quins team first but a change of plan gamebreaker like him or Rory Hutchinson would be ideal.

Yes, 3 very frustrating issues. I don’t know enough about how a line out works and don’t understand how it can go from fine to crap so quickly. Hoping the fix is just as quick.

Stupid penalties have been an issue for a long time but I thought we were cutting them down in the last year, that should I guess in theory be an easy fix.

Goal kicker? Dunno. It’s Finn or Hastings really. Finn has been kicking really well the last couple of years but had a poor couple of weeks. Is Hastings any better? Don’t know. I think Finn is on thin ice at the moment anyway so maybe time to give Hastings a run

[clydecloggie]

My biggest concerns for the six nations are lack of a reliable lineout, lack of a reliable goal kicker, and stupid penalties conceded under little pressure. If we fix them I think 3/5 is very realistic.

Also concerned Townsend actually uses the 6/2 bench. Last year for example Vs Ireland they were comfortable until Huw Jones came on. Not saying Jones should pay because he needs to get in the Quins team first but a change of plan gamebreaker like him or Rory Hutchinson would be ideal.

Yes, 3 very frustrating issues. I don’t know enough about how a line out works and don’t understand how it can go from fine to crap so quickly. Hoping the fix is just as quick.

Stupid penalties have been an issue for a long time but I thought we were cutting them down in the last year, that should I guess in theory be an easy fix.

Goal kicker? Dunno. It’s Finn or Hastings really. Finn has been kicking really well the last couple of years but had a poor couple of weeks. Is Hastings any better? Don’t know. I think Finn is on thin ice at the moment anyway so maybe time to give Hastings a run

Play Ross Thompson at 12 as a dedicated kicker.

[SaintK]

I don’t know enough about how a line out works and don’t understand how it can go from fine to crap so quickly. Hoping the fix is just as quick.

The SRU/Townsend recently stopped using a freelance specialist lineout and throwing coach. He'd been working with the SCotland squads for a while having been introduced to them by Cockers who used him when with Tigers. He worked at both Glasgow and Edinburgh and regularly with the full Scotland squad.
Rennie called him into the Australia camp for sessions before the England and Wales matches this Autumn. He has had an extremely succesful career both with the RFU and as a freelance.
I know this because he is a good mate of mine!!

[Tichtheid]

We lost 1 lineouts against Australia, 2 against each of Tonga and Japan, 3 against South Africa.

Oz & Japan lost 0 against us, Tonga lost 1, South Africa lost 2.

We have to do better.

I had a look at England v South Africa because I regard them as having a very good lineout, England lost 2 and South Africa lost 2

[Slick]

We lost 1 lineouts against Australia, 2 against each of Tonga and Japan, 3 against South Africa.

Oz & Japan lost 0 against us, Tonga lost 1, South Africa lost 2.

We have to do better.

I had a look at England v South Africa because I regard them as having a very good lineout, England lost 2 and South Africa lost 2

In the whole AI series or in their match?

[Biffer]

I don’t know enough about how a line out works and don’t understand how it can go from fine to crap so quickly. Hoping the fix is just as quick.

The SRU/Townsend recently stopped using a freelance specialist lineout and throwing coach. He'd been working with the SCotland squads for a while having been introduced to them by Cockers who used him when with Tigers. He worked at both Glasgow and Edinburgh and regularly with the full Scotland squad.
Rennie called him into the Australia camp for sessions before the England and Wales matches this Autumn. He has had an extremely succesful career both with the RFU and as a freelance.
I know this because he is a good mate of mine!!

I remember Cockers being flabbergasted that Stuart McInally had never had a specialist throwing coach working with him at any point since he'd converted from back row.

[Tichtheid]

We lost 1 lineouts against Australia, 2 against each of Tonga and Japan, 3 against South Africa.

Oz & Japan lost 0 against us, Tonga lost 1, South Africa lost 2.

We have to do better.

I had a look at England v South Africa because I regard them as having a very good lineout, England lost 2 and South Africa lost 2

In the whole AI series or in their match?

In that one match, I couldn't be arsed looking up any more

[SaintK]

I don’t know enough about how a line out works and don’t understand how it can go from fine to crap so quickly. Hoping the fix is just as quick.

The SRU/Townsend recently stopped using a freelance specialist lineout and throwing coach. He'd been working with the SCotland squads for a while having been introduced to them by Cockers who used him when with Tigers. He worked at both Glasgow and Edinburgh and regularly with the full Scotland squad.
Rennie called him into the Australia camp for sessions before the England and Wales matches this Autumn. He has had an extremely succesful career both with the RFU and as a freelance.
I know this because he is a good mate of mine!!

I remember Cockers being flabbergasted that Stuart McInally had never had a specialist throwing coach working with him at any point since he'd converted from back row.

My mate worked with McInally and Brown on a weekly basis both face to face and using video analysis. Reckoned McInally was a real smart lad. Interestingly though, he thought Cherry was easily the best and regularly the most accurate thrower of the three.

[Tichtheid]

The SRU/Townsend recently stopped using a freelance specialist lineout and throwing coach. He'd been working with the SCotland squads for a while having been introduced to them by Cockers who used him when with Tigers. He worked at both Glasgow and Edinburgh and regularly with the full Scotland squad.
Rennie called him into the Australia camp for sessions before the England and Wales matches this Autumn. He has had an extremely succesful career both with the RFU and as a freelance.
I know this because he is a good mate of mine!!

I remember Cockers being flabbergasted that Stuart McInally had never had a specialist throwing coach working with him at any point since he'd converted from back row.

My mate worked with McInally and Brown on a weekly basis both face to face and using video analysis. Reckoned McInally was a real smart lad. Interestingly though, he thought Cherry was easily the best and regularly the most accurate thrower of the three.

That shows itself in games.

Further to Biffer's point, Nasi Manu was amazed Edinburgh didn't have anyone looking at the psychology side of things, both on and off the field.

It was like we were taking to the ring with one hand deliberately tied behind our back

[fishfoodie]

I remember Cockers being flabbergasted that Stuart McInally had never had a specialist throwing coach working with him at any point since he'd converted from back row.

My mate worked with McInally and Brown on a weekly basis both face to face and using video analysis. Reckoned McInally was a real smart lad. Interestingly though, he thought Cherry was easily the best and regularly the most accurate thrower of the three.

That shows itself in games.

Further to Biffer's point, Nasi Manu was amazed Edinburgh didn't have anyone looking at the psychology side of things, both on and off the field.

It was like we were taking to the ring with one hand deliberately tied behind our back

Not a dig a Scots on here; but the SRFU has always been against Professionalism; in every form, in Rugby; & this stuff just reinforces the view, that they still have to be dragged; kicking & screaming into the present.

[Tichtheid]

My mate worked with McInally and Brown on a weekly basis both face to face and using video analysis. Reckoned McInally was a real smart lad. Interestingly though, he thought Cherry was easily the best and regularly the most accurate thrower of the three.

That shows itself in games.

Further to Biffer's point, Nasi Manu was amazed Edinburgh didn't have anyone looking at the psychology side of things, both on and off the field.

It was like we were taking to the ring with one hand deliberately tied behind our back

Not a dig a Scots on here; but the SRFU has always been against Professionalism; in every form, in Rugby; & this stuff just reinforces the view, that they still have to be dragged; kicking & screaming into the present.

Most Scots fan would agree with you, we are starting to get there, but everyone else is not static, they are moving on too so we are still a ways behind.

I say most fans, there is still a sizable minority who would do away with the pro teams, a move that would kill the game stone dead in Scotland but it's all to do with perceived status of the amateur clubs

edit, and to be fair the SRU are a lot better now, far more professional and forward-looking, the trouble is that the clubs feel that they own the SRU, I'm not sure of the legal standing and the separation of professional rugby but in a way they are correct in that the amateur clubs do own* the SRU

*(I don't think "own" is the right word here, but I can't think of the correct one)

[JM2K6]

We lost 1 lineouts against Australia, 2 against each of Tonga and Japan, 3 against South Africa.

Oz & Japan lost 0 against us, Tonga lost 1, South Africa lost 2.

We have to do better.

I had a look at England v South Africa because I regard them as having a very good lineout, England lost 2 and South Africa lost 2

In the whole AI series or in their match?

In that one match, I couldn't be arsed looking up any more

Tbf, Mbonambi is a bit shit with his throwing - he struggled a few times against the Lions as well - and we were playing Jamie Blamire and Nic Dolly, so it's a tricky comparison to make. England have been making life easier for themselves with 4 genuine options (Itoje, Hill, Lawes, Curry) at least.

[Tichtheid]

In the whole AI series or in their match?

In that one match, I couldn't be arsed looking up any more

Tbf, Mbonambi is a bit shit with his throwing - he struggled a few times against the Lions as well - and we were playing Jamie Blamire and Nic Dolly, so it's a tricky comparison to make. England have been making life easier for themselves with 4 genuine options (Itoje, Hill, Lawes, Curry) at least.

by a similar token Scotland were without Gray and Cummings for three of the four games, Turner would usually be third choice hooker, Brown is injured and McInally is just back from a lay off, Ashman is still a kid, really.

The systems should be robust enough that any players swap in a hit their jumpers and the lifters should be getting their man into the spot, every time.

[Big D]

That shows itself in games.

Further to Biffer's point, Nasi Manu was amazed Edinburgh didn't have anyone looking at the psychology side of things, both on and off the field.

It was like we were taking to the ring with one hand deliberately tied behind our back

Not a dig a Scots on here; but the SRFU has always been against Professionalism; in every form, in Rugby; & this stuff just reinforces the view, that they still have to be dragged; kicking & screaming into the present.

Most Scots fan would agree with you, we are starting to get there, but everyone else is not static, they are moving on too so we are still a ways behind.

I say most fans, there is still a sizable minority who would do away with the pro teams, a move that would kill the game stone dead in Scotland but it's all to do with perceived status of the amateur clubs

edit, and to be fair the SRU are a lot better now, far more professional and forward-looking, the trouble is that the clubs feel that they own the SRU, I'm not sure of the legal standing and the separation of professional rugby but in a way they are correct in that the amateur clubs do own* the SRU

*(I don't think "own" is the right word here, but I can't think of the correct one)

The SRU is a member organisation, with the members being the clubs. So in a real sense they can, should and do have a say in the direction of the SRU. For example, it had to go to a member vote to allow the SRU to explore selling off parts of the pro teams.

There is a fine balance between the grass root and pro game, they both need each other, and the SRU budget it as such. They are not willing to take money away from the grass roots side (S6 would still fall under that) to give to the pro game more than a "fair share" and it is a prime reason why there hasn't been another 3rd team.

There is plenty the SRU have gotten wrong, but it is easy to forget the levels of debt the SRU carried for a number of years (I think because of the cost of remodelling Murrayfield) and when the game turned pro they still had a good chunk of that debt.

[JM2K6]

In that one match, I couldn't be arsed looking up any more

Tbf, Mbonambi is a bit shit with his throwing - he struggled a few times against the Lions as well - and we were playing Jamie Blamire and Nic Dolly, so it's a tricky comparison to make. England have been making life easier for themselves with 4 genuine options (Itoje, Hill, Lawes, Curry) at least.

by a similar token Scotland were without Gray and Cummings for three of the four games, Turner would usually be third choice hooker, Brown is injured and McInally is just back from a lay off, Ashman is still a kid, really.

The systems should be robust enough that any players swap in a hit their jumpers and the lifters should be getting their man into the spot, every time.

Yup, I was more suggesting that you rating us might have been a bit out of date - we have a specific Eddie Jones problem when it comes to hookers and scrum halves, he doesn't think having more than 2 getting any game time is useful at any point, so when you lose two you're left with a gaping void and a lot of hope and prayers for the poor sods being pushed into the hotseat.

[Tichtheid]

The SRU is a member organisation, with the members being the clubs. So in a real sense they can, should and do have a say in the direction of the SRU. For example, it had to go to a member vote to allow the SRU to explore selling off parts of the pro teams.

Yeah, I don't know I was stumbling over that, trying to do too many things at once.
The clubs got the reorganisation of the leagues wrong, they forced a change of direction of the number of national leagues against the interests of most clubs.
There are times strong leadership is needed, and Dodson is not everyone's cup of porridge but he is a strong leader.

There is a fine balance between the grass root and pro game, they both need each other, and the SRU budget it as such. They are not willing to take money away from the grass roots side (S6 would still fall under that) to give to the pro game more than a "fair share" and it is a prime reason why there hasn't been another 3rd team.

There is plenty the SRU have gotten wrong, but it is easy to forget the levels of debt the SRU carried for a number of years (I think because of the cost of remodelling Murrayfield) and when the game turned pro they still had a good chunk of that debt.

Without the the income from tv and Murrayfield gates there is no money for the grassroots.

Without the two professional teams rugby in Scotland becomes rugby in Georgia or Romania - a handful of promising players get picked up by clubs in England or France, Scotland get hammered at Murrayfield by Italy and Tonga in front of dwindling crowds and eventually we get punted from the tour itineraries of the big teams and we'd be the embarrassment of the 6N, scrapping for world cup qualification with Spain and Holland.

When I see the blowhards arguing on TOL for the clubs to get the money from the SRU and the two teams to be disbanded I don't think they've thought it through

[Big D]

The SRU is a member organisation, with the members being the clubs. So in a real sense they can, should and do have a say in the direction of the SRU. For example, it had to go to a member vote to allow the SRU to explore selling off parts of the pro teams.

Yeah, I don't know I was stumbling over that, trying to do too many things at once.
The clubs got the reorganisation of the leagues wrong, they forced a change of direction of the number of national leagues against the interests of most clubs.
There are times strong leadership is needed, and Dodson is not everyone's cup of porridge but he is a strong leader.

There is a fine balance between the grass root and pro game, they both need each other, and the SRU budget it as such. They are not willing to take money away from the grass roots side (S6 would still fall under that) to give to the pro game more than a "fair share" and it is a prime reason why there hasn't been another 3rd team.

There is plenty the SRU have gotten wrong, but it is easy to forget the levels of debt the SRU carried for a number of years (I think because of the cost of remodelling Murrayfield) and when the game turned pro they still had a good chunk of that debt.

Without the the income from tv and Murrayfield gates there is no money for the grassroots.

Without the two professional teams rugby in Scotland becomes rugby in Georgia or Romania - a handful of promising players get picked up by clubs in England or France, Scotland get hammered at Murrayfield by Italy and Tonga in front of dwindling crowds and eventually we get punted from the tour itineraries of the big teams and we'd be the embarrassment of the 6N, scrapping for world cup qualification with Spain and Holland.

When I see the blowhards arguing on TOL for the clubs to get the money from the SRU and the two teams to be disbanded I don't think they've thought it through

I am firmly in the middle on this one. The clubs need the pro game to a point, but the pro game also needs the clubs to a point. I know from first hand experience of clubs miles down the leagues paying DO's and coaches for schools by topping up what the SRU were providing. So it isn't just the clubs benefiting from SRU hand outs, the clubs are very active in seeking out their own sources of income to bring in new players to the game.

The more money that comes into the game the harder it will be for Scotland to keep up, we don't have anywhere near as many active players as other nations ( around 15th according to the rugby paper based on registered players which is a massively inflated number), we don't have as much money as many of the nations and we need to be fairly sensible about how we spend what little money we do have. The game of rugby in Scotland needs a pro game that is broadly competitive and grass root clubs that can produce players/get folk playing the game. Some schools only have rugby programmes due to the work of clubs.

By and large I think we are doing ok given the popularity (or lack of popularity) of the game and the number of players we have. Could do somethings better, could do somethings worse.

[I like neeps]

My biggest concerns for the six nations are lack of a reliable lineout, lack of a reliable goal kicker, and stupid penalties conceded under little pressure. If we fix them I think 3/5 is very realistic.

Also concerned Townsend actually uses the 6/2 bench. Last year for example Vs Ireland they were comfortable until Huw Jones came on. Not saying Jones should pay because he needs to get in the Quins team first but a change of plan gamebreaker like him or Rory Hutchinson would be ideal.

Yes, 3 very frustrating issues. I don’t know enough about how a line out works and don’t understand how it can go from fine to crap so quickly. Hoping the fix is just as quick.

Stupid penalties have been an issue for a long time but I thought we were cutting them down in the last year, that should I guess in theory be an easy fix.

Goal kicker? Dunno. It’s Finn or Hastings really. Finn has been kicking really well the last couple of years but had a poor couple of weeks. Is Hastings any better? Don’t know. I think Finn is on thin ice at the moment anyway so maybe time to give Hastings a run

Hastings is I think a bit better than Finn at goalkicking and doing it weekly will surely help. I love watching Finn play but you have to have a discussion if his AI form continues about potentially playing Hastings.

Discipline is on coaching - they can do it as you say but not enough. It's a coaching failing.

Lineout great info SaintK! Bring your friend back. I think starting Cherry also has be discussed. How much longer can we have Turner losing lineouts?

[Slick]

My biggest concerns for the six nations are lack of a reliable lineout, lack of a reliable goal kicker, and stupid penalties conceded under little pressure. If we fix them I think 3/5 is very realistic.

Also concerned Townsend actually uses the 6/2 bench. Last year for example Vs Ireland they were comfortable until Huw Jones came on. Not saying Jones should pay because he needs to get in the Quins team first but a change of plan gamebreaker like him or Rory Hutchinson would be ideal.

Yes, 3 very frustrating issues. I don’t know enough about how a line out works and don’t understand how it can go from fine to crap so quickly. Hoping the fix is just as quick.

Stupid penalties have been an issue for a long time but I thought we were cutting them down in the last year, that should I guess in theory be an easy fix.

Goal kicker? Dunno. It’s Finn or Hastings really. Finn has been kicking really well the last couple of years but had a poor couple of weeks. Is Hastings any better? Don’t know. I think Finn is on thin ice at the moment anyway so maybe time to give Hastings a run

Hastings is I think a bit better than Finn at goalkicking and doing it weekly will surely help. I love watching Finn play but you have to have a discussion if his AI form continues about potentially playing Hastings.

Discipline is on coaching - they can do it as you say but not enough. It's a coaching failing.

Lineout great info SaintK! Bring your friend back. I think starting Cherry also has be discussed. How much longer can we have Turner losing lineouts?

I feel a bit for Hastings. He is a superb player in his own right and can do many of the things Finn can going forward with a better running game as well- although there are quite a few things only Finn can do.

The problem for him is that Finn will have one of those games when everything goes right and he becomes undroppable for the next 10, however badly he plays. I’d love to see Hastings get a string of games together

[fishfoodie]

There is plenty the SRU have gotten wrong, but it is easy to forget the levels of debt the SRU carried for a number of years (I think because of the cost of remodelling Murrayfield) and when the game turned pro they still had a good chunk of that debt.

Good point; I'd forgotten how badly burned the SRU was with Murrayfield; with hindsight they went too big; & didn't have a tenant club to keep that regular income going; & debt never sleeps.

The WRFU also got saddled with load of debt for the Millennium; & it handicapped the Welsh clubs a lot too.

I think the IRFU got a little lucky; because they were able to go on for a few years, before they redeveloped Landsdowne; & then technically they share the Stadium with the FAI, so they contributed a bit; & football internationals; & other events, keep the rent paid.

[Big D]

I see we are playing Argentina on a 3 match summer tour and once in the AIs. Should get to know them well!

[Yr Alban]

There is plenty the SRU have gotten wrong, but it is easy to forget the levels of debt the SRU carried for a number of years (I think because of the cost of remodelling Murrayfield) and when the game turned pro they still had a good chunk of that debt.

Good point; I'd forgotten how badly burned the SRU was with Murrayfield; with hindsight they went too big; & didn't have a tenant club to keep that regular income going; & debt never sleeps.

The WRFU also got saddled with load of debt for the Millennium; & it handicapped the Welsh clubs a lot too.

I think the IRFU got a little lucky; because they were able to go on for a few years, before they redeveloped Landsdowne; & then technically they share the Stadium with the FAI, so they contributed a bit; & football internationals; & other events, keep the rent paid.

I’ve said this for years. Irish rugby’s greatest stroke of luck was that the IRFU dawdled over Lansdowne Rd. Professionalism happened virtually overnight, and the IRFU had the money to properly fund the provincial sides. They had some early success, built a fan base, and look at them now. The SRU, on the other hand, had the worst luck possible, in that they had just gone into huge debt to redevelop Murrayfield, and the pro game had to be funded on a shoestring. We’re still feeling that now.

[Biffer]

There is plenty the SRU have gotten wrong, but it is easy to forget the levels of debt the SRU carried for a number of years (I think because of the cost of remodelling Murrayfield) and when the game turned pro they still had a good chunk of that debt.

Good point; I'd forgotten how badly burned the SRU was with Murrayfield; with hindsight they went too big; & didn't have a tenant club to keep that regular income going; & debt never sleeps.

The WRFU also got saddled with load of debt for the Millennium; & it handicapped the Welsh clubs a lot too.

I think the IRFU got a little lucky; because they were able to go on for a few years, before they redeveloped Landsdowne; & then technically they share the Stadium with the FAI, so they contributed a bit; & football internationals; & other events, keep the rent paid.

I’ve said this for years. Irish rugby’s greatest stroke of luck was that the IRFU dawdled over Lansdowne Rd. Professionalism happened virtually overnight, and the IRFU had the money to properly fund the provincial sides. They had some early success, built a fan base, and look at them now. The SRU, on the other hand, had the worst luck possible, in that they had just gone into huge debt to redevelop Murrayfield, and the pro game had to be funded on a shoestring. We’re still feeling that now.

There's more to it than that as well. Professionalism came at the same time as the boom in the Irish economy, and the accompanying increase in disposable income. There's no other professional sport in Ireland of similar quality, so it was perfectly positioned to benefit from the economic boom.

[Tichtheid]

Good point; I'd forgotten how badly burned the SRU was with Murrayfield; with hindsight they went too big; & didn't have a tenant club to keep that regular income going; & debt never sleeps.

The WRFU also got saddled with load of debt for the Millennium; & it handicapped the Welsh clubs a lot too.

I think the IRFU got a little lucky; because they were able to go on for a few years, before they redeveloped Landsdowne; & then technically they share the Stadium with the FAI, so they contributed a bit; & football internationals; & other events, keep the rent paid.

I’ve said this for years. Irish rugby’s greatest stroke of luck was that the IRFU dawdled over Lansdowne Rd. Professionalism happened virtually overnight, and the IRFU had the money to properly fund the provincial sides. They had some early success, built a fan base, and look at them now. The SRU, on the other hand, had the worst luck possible, in that they had just gone into huge debt to redevelop Murrayfield, and the pro game had to be funded on a shoestring. We’re still feeling that now.

There's more to it than that as well. Professionalism came at the same time as the boom in the Irish economy, and the accompanying increase in disposable income. There's no other professional sport in Ireland of similar quality, so it was perfectly positioned to benefit from the economic boom.

My impression is that there was also a long sporting rivalry between the provinces, it was just waiting for high level sport to manifest itself. The rivalries in Scotland are, well, not particularly something I want to get into, but I've heard it called Castle Grayskull v Morder.

In rugby the rivalries were far more local, Hawick v Gala, The Nails v Accies, Langholm v whoever they were playing that week etc The Inter-district Championship was an honour to play in and a stepping stone towards the national side, it was fun when the big touring teams played them, but it didn't have the rivalry of a Hawick v Pailmerks game.

[Biffer]

I’ve said this for years. Irish rugby’s greatest stroke of luck was that the IRFU dawdled over Lansdowne Rd. Professionalism happened virtually overnight, and the IRFU had the money to properly fund the provincial sides. They had some early success, built a fan base, and look at them now. The SRU, on the other hand, had the worst luck possible, in that they had just gone into huge debt to redevelop Murrayfield, and the pro game had to be funded on a shoestring. We’re still feeling that now.

There's more to it than that as well. Professionalism came at the same time as the boom in the Irish economy, and the accompanying increase in disposable income. There's no other professional sport in Ireland of similar quality, so it was perfectly positioned to benefit from the economic boom.

My impression is that there was also a long sporting rivalry between the provinces, it was just waiting for high level sport to manifest itself. The rivalries in Scotland are, well, not particularly something I want to get into, but I've heard it called Castle Grayskull v Morder.

In rugby the rivalries were far more local, Hawick v Gala, The Nails v Accies, Langholm v whoever they were playing that week etc The Inter-district Championship was an honour to play in and a stepping stone towards the national side, it was fun when the big touring teams played them, but it didn't have the rivalry of a Hawick v Pailmerks game.

My point is that there was nothing to compete with Rugby, in a society that was newly flush with extra spending money.

[clydecloggie]

There's more to it than that as well. Professionalism came at the same time as the boom in the Irish economy, and the accompanying increase in disposable income. There's no other professional sport in Ireland of similar quality, so it was perfectly positioned to benefit from the economic boom.

My impression is that there was also a long sporting rivalry between the provinces, it was just waiting for high level sport to manifest itself. The rivalries in Scotland are, well, not particularly something I want to get into, but I've heard it called Castle Grayskull v Morder.

In rugby the rivalries were far more local, Hawick v Gala, The Nails v Accies, Langholm v whoever they were playing that week etc The Inter-district Championship was an honour to play in and a stepping stone towards the national side, it was fun when the big touring teams played them, but it didn't have the rivalry of a Hawick v Pailmerks game.

My point is that there was nothing to compete with Rugby, in a society that was newly flush with extra spending money.

Ireland is an odd one, it is a unique mix of factors that led to them being so fantastically set up to reap the success of the rugby pro era. On top of the ones already mentioned re fortuitous timing of investments in stadiums and the economic boom, there's 1) they're utterly crap at association football (at club level and most of the time at national team level) which tends to get first dibs on athletes with potential in all other European nations; 2) their big Gaelic sports are all strictly amateur; 3) their existing rivalries were 'province' based, which is highly suitable to scaling up to things like the URC and Heineken Cup (compared to small town rivalries like in the Scottish Borders which pretty much ensured the Reivers would always be struggling).

It's an utter miracle they've never gone past the RWC QF and need to scrap for 6N titles with the likes of Wales.

[Big D]

Sneaky key stretch of games coming up for the pro sides and will go some way to determining the challengers for the conference win.

Both sides play the dragons, Benneton and each other x2 before Christmas. Edinburgh have the benefit of a week off before the Glasgow double header.

Edinburgh have a tough schedule in the second half of the season so need to make those 4 games us the Cardiff game on the new year count as much as possible.

[Big D]

So when is Dempsey eligible given the new laws?

[Slick]

So when is Dempsey eligible given the new laws?

1st of January isn't it? I'm sure his Wiki page has just changed to reflect his Scottish heritage a bit more

[Tichtheid]

So when is Dempsey eligible given the new laws?

1st of January isn't it? I'm sure his Wiki page has just changed to reflect his Scottish heritage a bit more

I didn't realise Dempsey had a Weedgie Grandfather.

He last played for the Wobblies in Sept 2019 (RWC I suppose), so if he did want to change over and we did want him to, he could probably make next year's AIs

[Big D]

So when is Dempsey eligible given the new laws?

1st of January isn't it? I'm sure his Wiki page has just changed to reflect his Scottish heritage a bit more

I didn't realise Dempsey had a Weedgie Grandfather.

He last played for the Wobblies in Sept 2019 (RWC I suppose), so if he did want to change over and we did want him to, he could probably make next year's AIs

11th of October was his last game from what I can see. Would walk into the Scotland team as it stands.

[I like neeps]

Don't think Dempsey would be allowed. Doesn't it have to be a parent?

[KingBlairhorn]

Does this put a new spin on our WC2023 group. Oceana/Asia 1 will be one of Tonga or Samoa. Does anyone have a view on what these squads will look like post this change. Samoa in particular might be a significant challenge for us as they will be big and brash, much like Ireland and SA. Are we going to finish fourth in our group?

[Yr Alban]

So when is Dempsey eligible given the new laws?

Mentioned this when the story came out. Most people seemed pretty down on the idea. He would seem to be pretty much tailor-made for our biggest problem position though…

Purely out of curiosity, I had a look at the Wiki edit history and it has mentioned his Scottish heritage since 2019. Was changed in September to say he has relis in Glasgow, but not since then.

TBH I’ll take him if he will play for the jersey. We’re going to be criticised no matter what, and at least he has a bloodline and has come to play in Scotland.

[Yr Alban]

Don't think Dempsey would be allowed. Doesn't it have to be a parent?

No. I checked that at the time.

[JM2K6]

I know Hogg had a tough summer but surely time has not been kind to Girve the Swerve? No idea why you're all so excited for him.

[Slick]

So when is Dempsey eligible given the new laws?

Mentioned this when the story came out. Most people seemed pretty down on the idea. He would seem to be pretty much tailor-made for our biggest problem position though…

Purely out of curiosity, I had a look at the Wiki edit history and it has mentioned his Scottish heritage since 2019. Was changed in September to say he has relis in Glasgow, but not since then.

TBH I’ll take him if he will play for the jersey. We’re going to be criticised no matter what, and at least he has a bloodline and has come to play in Scotland.

Fair enough. I checked it a few months back and didn't recall it being so emphatic.

[Big D]

Don't think Dempsey would be allowed. Doesn't it have to be a parent?

Grandparent is enough apparently.

[Big D]

Does this put a new spin on our WC2023 group. Oceana/Asia 1 will be one of Tonga or Samoa. Does anyone have a view on what these squads will look like post this change. Samoa in particular might be a significant challenge for us as they will be big and brash, much like Ireland and SA. Are we going to finish fourth in our group?

I think Tonga are the big winners.

[Yr Alban]

Don't think Dempsey would be allowed. Doesn't it have to be a parent?

Grandparent is enough apparently.

Yup. Not that I trust the BBC implicitly, but they are generally correct about this stuff.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/59406025