Ref moaning and bitching thread
I think the influence of the home crowd is a given, people, even if subconsciously, want to feel they belong, be part of a gang, and going against the crowd goes against that instinct. The host union also brings out their most gracious hospitality for the visiting ref, and people generally don't like to offend their hosts. But I'm not convinced the refs were more impacted just because they haven't refereed in front of crowds for while. It will anyway be interesting to see how the cards, and results stack up during the July tests. I'm sure the NH posters will be just as supportive of the refs then as they are now.Big D wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:46 amAbsolutely, but refs/touch judges haven't had to stand in front of a crowd that size in a long time under pressure. Would be understandable if they were impacted (more so than usual) in this AIs IMO.Slick wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:17 amThe comical ooooing and ahhhhing from the home crowd has become part of the game now.Big D wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 1:20 am
It is a wee bit more nuanced than that though isn't it?
For example the one yellow card on Scotland v Aus/SA was for contact with the face by a player diving off his feet at a ruck (IIRC). Where as the yellow in Scotland v Japan was for a "totting up" of penalties rather than the offence itself. So that's one yellow of 1 offence and 1 for effectively 8 or so penalties.
I don't remember there being too many contentious card/no card incidents in Scotlands games really.
It wouldn't surprise me if refs were slightly influenced by the home crowds. To be fair to them, for some it'll be the first time they've been in front of 80k+ crowds for 2 years.
I would take each card, or lack of, on its own merits. Not "we had similar number of penalties but more cards".Calculon wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:47 pmI think the influence of the home crowd is a given, people, even if subconsciously, want to feel they belong, be part of a gang, and going against the crowd goes against that instinct. The host union also brings out their most gracious hospitality for the visiting ref, and people generally don't like to offend their hosts. But I'm not convinced the refs were more impacted just because they haven't refereed in front of crowds for while. It will anyway be interesting to see how the cards, and results stack up during the July tests. I'm sure the NH posters will be just as supportive of the refs then as they are now.
Take the Scotland games, two yellows for (both "one more and someone goes" type cards) and two against both for reckless or dangerous play. One of the Aussie props also avoided a card just because he was practically knocked out.
The Wales v Australia game saw two straight forward cards for the Aussies and Thomas could have been a red rather than a yellow. When you compare it to the yellow Alaalatoa got versus Scotland the main difference is contact with the face and contact with the head, both make similar movements with the arm, are reckless and there was no need. But both were a yellow so there is some consistency there.
Are we sure this isn't Australia that is the issue? From memory the Bell tackle was a borderline off the ball tip tackle that was a Lawes hand away from him landing on his neck and it being a red. The Wright card in that game was direct contact to the head and could easily have been red but the ref, as others have done (see Alaalatoa and Thomas) mitigated it down to a yellow.
So of the 8 SH cards, 5 were for Aussies, 4 of those were for contact with the head or tip tackles and one was a deliberate knock on.
I say we bin Australia in an attempt to clean the game up :)
Yes, it was just reaction from a standard media interview. He didn’t go out of his way to create and publish on social media. And he apologised afterwards. He got his point across too.
Who is running the ref shit show these days? Is it Joel Jutdge?
Who is running the ref shit show these days? Is it Joel Jutdge?
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Rhubarb & Custard
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Jutge, but yes.
ETA - Currently the head of the refs reports in to Joe Schmidt. I don't know if they've confirmed if that's staying as is post Schmidt
ETA - Currently the head of the refs reports in to Joe Schmidt. I don't know if they've confirmed if that's staying as is post Schmidt
Okay, so I'm bitching at referees for not doing anything about it!
I'd also like refs to stop trying to be nice to athletes (presumably because they were Billy No Mates in their playing days, and want to get invited out for a drink after) and march the cynical plum back when they say anything negative or ask for penalties/cards.
This. Get unnecessarily annoyed by the seeminly new thing of using players first names like they're friends. When I was ever captain I'd ask to be referred to as red 2 so I knew he was warning me.Niegs wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 10:33 pmOkay, so I'm bitching at referees for not doing anything about it!
I'd also like refs to stop trying to be nice to athletes (presumably because they were Billy No Mates in their playing days, and want to get invited out for a drink after) and march the cynical plum back when they say anything negative or ask for penalties/cards.
I love the crab for the chargedown attempt from Sarries. Nothing wrong with it legally. I'd not cry if it was stamped out for some reason, but I'm always going to appreciate the genius to realise it was a possibility.
Give a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
I would not be surprised if there was a quick re-emphasis that you must be behind the back foot if you're going to try and charge down, even if you're "bound" to begin with.
But if you're part of the ruck I don't believe you have to be, as long as you entered the ruck legally. I suspect there may be a small shift in perhaps picking up that they've not come through the middle however.
Give a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.