Is Lance Armstrong the worst figurehead that any sport has had?

[Hugo]

When you consider not just the blood doping (which by all accounts was prevalent at that time) but also the arrogant way he conducted himself and the way that he tried to bludgeon the people who stood up against him? He seemed to have no empathy for the people who he victimised, all of whom were less powerful, many whose lives he tried to ruin.

I think his mother spoiled and enabled him and at some point was probably unable to stand up to him so from a young age he got away with murder, was not held accountable by a strong male figure who could have kept him in line. He learned early on that he could just bulldoze people and do whatever he wanted with pretty much no consequence.

Even a guy like Michael Jordan who also was very dominating and bullying of his peers was very respectful of authority figures, Muhammad Ali may have been a dick (not least of all to Joe Frazier) but he also did take a stand for poor and black people when it came to the Vietnam war draft. Both of them could be forgiven for having something of a chip on their shoulders anyway because they grew up being subjected to varying degrees of racism.

Richie McCaw was a gentleman, Messi mostly keeps his head down, Maradona was a bit of a nutter but he grew up in poverty and he wasn't treated as if he was above the law as his expulsion from the 1994 World Cup attests.

I just can't think of a single sportsman who was the "face of their sport" whose personality was as flawed and who tainted their sport as badly yet was given carte blanche to do as they pleased.

[FujiKiwi]

Not as bad, probably, or as universal, but Mohammad Azharuddin, Hansie Cronje and Chris Cairns were all cricket icons in theIr respective countries, and assuming allegations were true, we’re pretty unrepentant for what they did. Cairns seems to have engaged in a lot of bullying, manipulative behavior, again, providing allegations are true.

[Hugo]

Not as bad, probably, or as universal, but Mohammad Azharuddin, Hansie Cronje and Chris Cairns were all cricket icons in theIr respective countries, and assuming allegations were true, we’re pretty unrepentant for what they did. Cairns seems to have engaged in a lot of bullying, manipulative behavior, again, providing allegations are true.

I remember hearing about Cronje's match fixing but were the other two also accused of match fixing?

[Gumboot]

I just can't think of a single sportsman who was the "face of their sport" whose personality was as flawed and who tainted their sport as badly yet was given carte blanche to do as they pleased.

He's an A-grade cunt. He came to NZ as part of some sort of redemption tour and did a promo ride in downtown Auckland. I was amazed at the number of lycra-clad morons who were happy to overlook the damage he did to cycling and join him in a "show of support".

[FujiKiwi]

Not as bad, probably, or as universal, but Mohammad Azharuddin, Hansie Cronje and Chris Cairns were all cricket icons in theIr respective countries, and assuming allegations were true, we’re pretty unrepentant for what they did. Cairns seems to have engaged in a lot of bullying, manipulative behavior, again, providing allegations are true.

I remember hearing about Cronje's match fixing but were the other two also accused of match fixing?

From memory, Azharuddin and Cronje may have been in cahoots. I think they were both convicted. A shame, because I thought they were amazing players and until exposed for that, I thought they carried themselves well.

It should be noted that Cairns was not convicted of what he was accused of—spot fixing, I think— but then apparently it's almost impossible to get a full conviction with the evidence they had. It seemed extremely damning to me, though, and it sounded like Cairns was manipulative bully. Distressing to hear, as he was such a hero to NZ cricket fans.

[Biffer]

Yes, given that he says he would do it all again. The man’s an absolute shit.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

Justice for Don King

[Hugo]

I just can't think of a single sportsman who was the "face of their sport" whose personality was as flawed and who tainted their sport as badly yet was given carte blanche to do as they pleased.

He's an A-grade cunt. He came to NZ as part of some sort of redemption tour and did a promo ride in downtown Auckland. I was amazed at the number of lycra-clad morons who were happy to overlook the damage he did to cycling and join him in a "show of support".

That's the crazy thing about Armstrong - he has this cult like following who worship the ground that he walks on yet they seem oblivious to how totally and utterly he damaged the integrity of their sport.

[Guy Smiley]

I just can't think of a single sportsman who was the "face of their sport" whose personality was as flawed and who tainted their sport as badly yet was given carte blanche to do as they pleased.

He's an A-grade cunt. He came to NZ as part of some sort of redemption tour and did a promo ride in downtown Auckland. I was amazed at the number of lycra-clad morons who were happy to overlook the damage he did to cycling and join him in a "show of support".

I think it’s a product of media and television access along with highly effective profile management and it shits me...

To call that cunt the face of the sport does an incredible disservice to present and past champions whose exploits outstrip his easily.

Eddie Mercx is the GOAT. Jeannie Longo’s record shits on his career with casual nonchalance. Armstrong won a world championship, survived cancer and returned to cycling with an altered physique and focussed on one race only. A one dimensional cheat with a formidable army. Fuck him.

[Hugo]

Justice for Don King

Great shout. There's a good documentary on him on youtube from the early 90's, the guy was audacious in how he ripped his fighters off. Bruno made a million when he fought Tim Witherspoon at Wembley in the mid 80's. After King's fees and deductions Witherspoon made less than $100,000 and he was the champion and won the bloody fight!

[CrazyIslander]

Tbh Armstrong's case is not boack and white. They all did drugs, no doubt past greats did it too.

[Hugo]

Tbh Armstrong's case is not boack and white. They all did drugs, no doubt past greats did it too.

Its not about the drug taking alone. Its the way that he tried to portray himself as something he was not. In his autobiography he literally says "as a cancer survivor I would never take PEDs". He used cancer to prop up this phony image. Then when people like David Walsh called out his lies he went on the offensive and attacked them, slandered them and bullied them.

[CrazyIslander]

Tbh Armstrong's case is not boack and white. They all did drugs, no doubt past greats did it too.

Its not about the drug taking alone. Its the way that he tried to portray himself as something he was not. In his autobiography he literally says "as a cancer survivor I would never take PEDs". He used cancer to prop up this phony image. Then when people like David Walsh called out his lies he went on the offensive and attacked them, slandered them and bullied them.

The whole sport at top level were on drugs before Armstrong took it up. He simply just did as the Romans were doing.
Did journalists just expected him to ousted himself? Are we putting the same criteria on past champions that used drugs? Are they all evil for not admitting they took drugs and have their championships stripped? A lot of past greats were calling for Armstrong's titles to be reinstated. They know how it was.

Are they bad role models? Absolutely. Did they betray the public? Yes.

[Insane_Homer]

Does OJ Simpson count?

[CrazyIslander]

Does OJ Simpson count?

Bingo!

Also Tiger Woods cheated on wife

[Hugo]

Tbh Armstrong's case is not boack and white. They all did drugs, no doubt past greats did it too.

Its not about the drug taking alone. Its the way that he tried to portray himself as something he was not. In his autobiography he literally says "as a cancer survivor I would never take PEDs". He used cancer to prop up this phony image. Then when people like David Walsh called out his lies he went on the offensive and attacked them, slandered them and bullied them.

The whole sport at top level were on drugs before Armstrong took it up. He simply just did as the Romans were doing.
Did journalists just expected him to ousted himself? Are we putting the same criteria on past champions that used drugs? Are they all evil for not admitting they took drugs and have their championships stripped? A lot of past greats were calling for Armstrong's titles to be reinstated. They know how it was.

Are they bad role models? Absolutely. Did they betray the public? Yes.

He didn't just do what the Romans do though.

He played both ends - he rigorously enforced the doping culture within the sport by threatening and intimidating cyclists who spoke out against it. Meanwhile he unequivocally denied taking drugs to the public.

[Gumboot]

Does OJ Simpson count?

Hell yes, as does another murderer Oscar Pistorius.

[CrazyIslander]

Its not about the drug taking alone. Its the way that he tried to portray himself as something he was not. In his autobiography he literally says "as a cancer survivor I would never take PEDs". He used cancer to prop up this phony image. Then when people like David Walsh called out his lies he went on the offensive and attacked them, slandered them and bullied them.

The whole sport at top level were on drugs before Armstrong took it up. He simply just did as the Romans were doing.
Did journalists just expected him to ousted himself? Are we putting the same criteria on past champions that used drugs? Are they all evil for not admitting they took drugs and have their championships stripped? A lot of past greats were calling for Armstrong's titles to be reinstated. They know how it was.

Are they bad role models? Absolutely. Did they betray the public? Yes.

He didn't just do what the Romans do though.

He played both ends - he rigorously enforced the doping culture within the sport by threatening and intimidating cyclists who spoke out against it. Meanwhile he unequivocally denied taking drugs to the public.

He's no saint that's for sure but they all denied taking drugs until they're caught. I mean Pantani is a legend right? He's just a more charismatic cheat. What about Indurain? 5 in a row without drugs?

[Biffer]

The whole sport at top level were on drugs before Armstrong took it up. He simply just did as the Romans were doing.
Did journalists just expected him to ousted himself? Are we putting the same criteria on past champions that used drugs? Are they all evil for not admitting they took drugs and have their championships stripped? A lot of past greats were calling for Armstrong's titles to be reinstated. They know how it was.

Are they bad role models? Absolutely. Did they betray the public? Yes.

He didn't just do what the Romans do though.

He played both ends - he rigorously enforced the doping culture within the sport by threatening and intimidating cyclists who spoke out against it. Meanwhile he unequivocally denied taking drugs to the public.

He's no saint that's for sure but they all denied taking drugs until they're caught. I mean Pantani is a legend right? He's just a more charismatic cheat. What about Indurain? 5 in a row without drugs?

I’m not sure if you’re deliberately missing the point. Armstrong bullied and intimidated other people and his influence was such that others were shut out of pro teams because they wouldn’t dope in the structured, methodical way that he did, and that he ensured was rigorously observed through his team.

[CrazyIslander]

I'm not advocating for Armstrong but the reality it was a dirty sport. If his bullying set him apart then fair enough.

I just look at it as a bunch of drug users racing and had been the case for decades. I'm at the point where I just look past the drug use and just enjoy the memories. Although with a lot less awe.

[Dinsdale Piranha]

I just can't think of a single sportsman who was the "face of their sport" whose personality was as flawed and who tainted their sport as badly yet was given carte blanche to do as they pleased.

He's an A-grade cunt. He came to NZ as part of some sort of redemption tour and did a promo ride in downtown Auckland. I was amazed at the number of lycra-clad morons who were happy to overlook the damage he did to cycling and join him in a "show of support".

I think it’s a product of media and television access along with highly effective profile management and it shits me...

To call that cunt the face of the sport does an incredible disservice to present and past champions whose exploits outstrip his easily.

Eddie Mercx is the GOAT. Jeannie Longo’s record shits on his career with casual nonchalance. Armstrong won a world championship, survived cancer and returned to cycling with an altered physique and focussed on one race only. A one dimensional cheat with a formidable army. Fuck him.

Of course Jeannie Longo turning out to be a standard issue doper tainted her career somewhat.

Armstrong is still in 'I'm sorry I got caught' mode. I have mentioned previously I have a couple of friends who got in to cycling because of Lance and one of them took it really badly when he was exposed

[Begbie]

Mike Tyson? Convicted rapist, coke head, bit of an all round scumbag.

[Big D]

Marion Jones? She was the biggest female sprinter on the planet for a while.

It is hard to pick a figure head. OJ probably wasn't a figure head but Pistorius was for disabled runners.

[CrazyIslander]

The list goes on

[Amethyst]

Not as bad, probably, or as universal, but Mohammad Azharuddin, Hansie Cronje and Chris Cairns were all cricket icons in theIr respective countries, and assuming allegations were true, we’re pretty unrepentant for what they did. Cairns seems to have engaged in a lot of bullying, manipulative behavior, again, providing allegations are true.

Hansie was very sorry for what he had done albeit only after he had been caught out.

[Big Nipper]

Not as bad, probably, or as universal, but Mohammad Azharuddin, Hansie Cronje and Chris Cairns were all cricket icons in theIr respective countries, and assuming allegations were true, we’re pretty unrepentant for what they did. Cairns seems to have engaged in a lot of bullying, manipulative behavior, again, providing allegations are true.

Hansie was very sorry for what he had done albeit only after he had been caught out.

Thanks for your input there now kindly fuck off thx

[Amethyst]

Does OJ Simpson count?

Hell yes, as does another murderer Oscar Pistorius.

Oscar Pistorius may be a bit different though. He shot at a person behind a closed door (which according to him, he thought was an intruder). The Court convicted him of murder as the identity of the victim didn't matter in this case. So if his version is in fact true, one has to feel a bit for him.

[Insane_Homer]

add Aaron Hernandez to the list

[Insane_Homer]

Not as bad, probably, or as universal, but Mohammad Azharuddin, Hansie Cronje and Chris Cairns were all cricket icons in theIr respective countries, and assuming allegations were true, we’re pretty unrepentant for what they did. Cairns seems to have engaged in a lot of bullying, manipulative behavior, again, providing allegations are true.

Hansie was very sorry for what he had done albeit only after he had been caught out.

Well, unlike Waugh, Warne and CA, Cricket SA didn't help Hansie cover it up.

[Blackmac]

Does OJ Simpson count?

Hell yes, as does another murderer Oscar Pistorius.

Oscar Pistorius may be a bit different though. He shot at a person behind a closed door (which according to him, he thought was an intruder). The Court convicted him of murder as the identity of the victim didn't matter in this case. So if his version is in fact true, one has to feel a bit for him.

Are we to feel sorry for every murderer whose version was not believed by the court.

[tcc_dc]

https://www.star-telegram.com/news/nati ... 76082.html

Lance Armstrong says I cannot stop being an arsehole..

[CrazyIslander]

Hell yes, as does another murderer Oscar Pistorius.

Oscar Pistorius may be a bit different though. He shot at a person behind a closed door (which according to him, he thought was an intruder). The Court convicted him of murder as the identity of the victim didn't matter in this case. So if his version is in fact true, one has to feel a bit for him.

Are we to feel sorry for every murderer whose version was not believed by the court.

The thing about Pistorius was that he had to put on his prosthetic legs and get his gun before he went to shoot his wife. So he had amble time to realise she wasn't in bed next to him. His immediate thoughts should've been that it waa her in the toilet. I guess it was exactly his thoughts and that's why he shot her.

[Enzedder]

Not as bad, probably, or as universal, but Mohammad Azharuddin, Hansie Cronje and Chris Cairns were all cricket icons in theIr respective countries, and assuming allegations were true, we’re pretty unrepentant for what they did. Cairns seems to have engaged in a lot of bullying, manipulative behavior, again, providing allegations are true.

Hansie was very sorry for what he had done albeit only after he had been caught out.

Well, unlike Waugh, Warne and CA, Cricket SA didn't help Hansie cover it up.

Bingo.


Would like to add Carl Lewis to the list - athlete of the decade and a bloody drug cheat

Carl Lewis has broken his silence on allegations that he was the beneficiary of a drugs cover-up, admitting he had tested positive for banned substances but claiming he was just one of "hundreds" of American athletes who were allowed to escape bans.

"There were hundreds of people getting off," he said. "Everyone was treated the same."

[Uncle fester]

Mike Tyson? Convicted rapist, coke head, bit of an all round scumbag.

Not a great human being but I'd have some sympathy bearing in mind his upbringing.

[Hugo]

https://www.star-telegram.com/news/nati ... 76082.html

Lance Armstrong says I cannot stop being an arsehole..

Hah, how noble that they terminate the police contract when Lance's modus operandi during his cycling career was analogous to police malpractice.

Being dishonest, thinking you are above the law, beyond reproach and accountability, enforcing the omerta code of silence, ostracising those who bucked the systematic cheating.

He is the equivalent of the bad cop that sullies the reputation of the good ones.

[Zig]

As a team Australia disgraced themselves with the ball tampering stuff in cricket.

I don't follow the sport but I'd have thought they'd be good enough not to need to cheat.

I've seen Aussies taking flak over it and in fairness they're usually quite embarrassed about it.

[CrazyIslander]

I remember the ARU in the 90s had an amnesty on drugs so players could hand in what they were using. All sorts of drugs were used even some used in horse racing and a product that hardens cement.

[Amethyst]

Oscar Pistorius may be a bit different though. He shot at a person behind a closed door (which according to him, he thought was an intruder). The Court convicted him of murder as the identity of the victim didn't matter in this case. So if his version is in fact true, one has to feel a bit for him.

Are we to feel sorry for every murderer whose version was not believed by the court.

The thing about Pistorius was that he had to put on his prosthetic legs and get his gun before he went to shoot his wife. So he had amble time to realise she wasn't in bed next to him. His immediate thoughts should've been that it waa her in the toilet. I guess it was exactly his thoughts and that's why he shot her.

Well, you are actually wrong. It was determined that he was in fact NOT wearing his prosthetics when he shot at the closed door (confirming his version and determined by the trajectory of the shots). After the shooting he went back to the bedroom (not disputed), saw the girlfriend was not in bed and realised she could be in the toilet (his version), put on his prosthetics (not disputed), grabbed a cricket bat and went to knock down the toilet door (not disputed). The other thing is that he had so much opportunity to kill her if he wanted to, so why the hell shoot at a closed door which could have been a hit or a miss situation? It was determined that he fired 4 shots: one fatal (hitting side of head), 2 barely hitting the side of her body and one missing completely. None of the shots were full-frontal hits. HOWEVER - none of what I said above matters and the court even conceded that his version may actually be true but it does not matter. He was convicted purely on the interpretation of law, in this case dolus eventualis (which is a form of intent). In this case the court concluded that he (Pistorius) must have foreseen the possibility that he could kill a person (any person, intruder or whoever) by shooting at a closed door (the toilet cubicle door) but despite this, he still fired.

[Uncle fester]

She was cowering in fear behind the door. That's why the shots hit her side.

[Amethyst]

It's also worthwhile to note that Pistorius got the absolute minimum prescribed sentence for murder, clearly a sign that the court thought it was not premeditated and in fact may even suggest that the court found that his version (of thinking of shooting at an intruder) rings true.