We need Super Rugby back

[Masterji]

The SANZAR competition was high quality and highly competitive. Its demise has left a massive hole in the Rugby calendar. Any chance it will come back, i miss it.

[Enzedder]

Not long - the preseason games start soon.

It's a pity we don't have the Saffers this year, and a bigger pity that we diluted it from 12 teams.

Proof positive that you don't bite the hand that feeds you.

[Guy Smiley]

I disagree...

I think the appeal of SA teams had it's day back when the comp was simpler with no conferences. As it grew and became ever more bloated, that appeal was gone, to be polite. I feel pretty positive about the new format and I'm looking forward to a new season with the two new teams.

[tcc_dc]

From a selfish view...I miss the SA teams as those were the only live matches we could get in the USA (time friendly)

[Enzedder]

I disagree...

I think the appeal of SA teams had it's day back when the comp was simpler with no conferences. As it grew and became ever more bloated, that appeal was gone, to be polite. I feel pretty positive about the new format and I'm looking forward to a new season with the two new teams.

I agree. I stopped watching most games except the Chiefs when we moved to a conference setup. The covid comp was fun but really a mini NPC (even with Aussie teams added).

I loved Super Rugby when it was Super 12

[mat the expat]

I'm excited at the chance for the Waratahs to lose against two new teams!

[Grandpa]

I disagree...

I think the appeal of SA teams had it's day back when the comp was simpler with no conferences. As it grew and became ever more bloated, that appeal was gone, to be polite. I feel pretty positive about the new format and I'm looking forward to a new season with the two new teams.

How come when Enzedder quoted Guy's post... it comes up as "Shanky's mate" instead?

[Guy Smiley]

I asked Enzo to change my name after that post…

[Masterji]

SR with the teams from 3 countries was of a very high standard and with the scrapping of the tournament, we have nothing worth watching. The ABs relative decline is directly related to the demise of the SR

[Grandpa]

I asked Enzo to change my name after that post…

Ah... All this time, I thought you were Shanky...

[Tichtheid]

I enjoyed the season that Highlanders won it, there were a lot of good players in that side, guys who maybe didn't have the box office that the likes of the 'Saders had or even their team mates who were in the ABs sides, but guys who collectively punched above their weight, Dan Pryor, John Hardie, Nasi Manu, Marty Banks, Richard Buckman, Patrick Osborne.

I had adopted them as my Super team a few years before because of the Scottish connection, they were a fun side to watch.

[OomStruisbaai]

As a Saffwr I am glad we move to the NH. Make a lot more sense, time zone, rugby , money wise, ext.

The cherry will be to play in the 6 Nations.

[Enzedder]

I asked Enzo to change my name after that post…

Ah... All this time, I thought you were Shanky...

Could be he is and we're winding up GS?

[Gumboot]

I enjoyed the season that Highlanders won it, there were a lot of good players in that side, guys who maybe didn't have the box office that the likes of the 'Saders had or even their team mates who were in the ABs sides, but guys who collectively punched above their weight, Dan Pryor, John Hardie, Nasi Manu, Marty Banks, Richard Buckman, Patrick Osborne.

I had adopted them as my Super team a few years before because of the Scottish connection, they were a fun side to watch.

I really rated Buckman. But for a couple of untimely injuries, he might've gone on to higher honours. I think one of the ABs coaches (Shag?) said he was on their radar at some point.

[Guy Smiley]

SR with the teams from 3 countries was of a very high standard and with the scrapping of the tournament, we have nothing worth watching. The ABs relative decline is directly related to the demise of the SR

The ABs have been in decline for several years and has more to do with selection and coaching policy than anything else, least of all the demise of SR.

[Tichtheid]

SR with the teams from 3 countries was of a very high standard and with the scrapping of the tournament, we have nothing worth watching. The ABs relative decline is directly related to the demise of the SR

The ABs have been in decline for several years and has more to do with selection and coaching policy than anything else, least of all the demise of SR.

I'm not sure about that. Even the best teams can't come up with the world's best in all fifteen positions and the second best on the bench for many world cup cycles.
New Zealand won't drop down too low, but neither will they always be that team full of Carters and McCaws - if not the best ever in their positions, at least on the nominees list

[Guy Smiley]

SR with the teams from 3 countries was of a very high standard and with the scrapping of the tournament, we have nothing worth watching. The ABs relative decline is directly related to the demise of the SR

The ABs have been in decline for several years and has more to do with selection and coaching policy than anything else, least of all the demise of SR.

I'm not sure about that. Even the best teams can't come up with the world's best in all fifteen positions and the second best on the bench for many world cup cycles.
New Zealand won't drop down too low, but neither will they always be that team full of Carters and McCaws - if not the best ever in their positions, at least on the nominees list

I agree with you regarding the loss of outstanding talent... along with those two, the ABs had a team stacked with ridiculous talent from around 2011 through until 2015. Naturally, when you lose outstanding players through retirement, you'll see a drop in performance...

my post isn't ignoring that. I and a few others are firmly of the opinion the current coach is a dud and that our tactics and game management are suffering through his tenure. Likewise, our selection policies leave a lot to be desired with constant changes to starting line ups a feature now, players being shoehorned into the team out of position or lacking form.

One glaring example I can offer... since Hansen's reign with Foster as assistant, the ABs have favoured a spread defense with minimum players committing to the breakdown. The philosophy has been claimed by both coaches as 'wanting to play the footy'. The preference is to have numbers across the field ready to attack. The concept of earning the right to move it wide through strength of possession or winning it has become foreign to the team... until a 20 minute period against France in the last test of last year when they suddenly rediscovered the rugby basic if rumbling the ball forwards through heavy forward play, picking and going... and it paid off in spades with the tactic bringing them right back into the game before they reverted to type and played looser, eventually losing the game.

That is how this AB team loses games, by the way. It's a pattern and despite this being as clear as a brick wall in front of them, the coaching panel can't see the problem let alone find a away around it.

They are clueless and getting left behind by more committed teams playing smart, hard rugby. This pattern has been developing since Hansen's tenure, exemplified by the glossy notion of having 'two playmakers' in the backline... and idea that's as old as having a player wearing the number 12 jersey and yet touted as a sort of genius strategy that was designed to allow playing both Damien MacKenzie and Beauden Barrett at the same time... two mercurial players who don't set their players up preferring to go it alone.

The rot is well and truly established and needs a cleanout of staff to be reversed.


Super Rugby, on the other hand, has a number of very good coaching appointments and teams playing well structured and skilful rugby.

[Sards]

I miss playing the Kiwis and Aussies

[OomStruisbaai]

The Crusaders struggle even more without the likes of Carter/McCaw. Must be the coaching.

[Guy Smiley]

After Dan Carter and Richie McCaw retired or left NZ rugby at the end of 2015, the Crusaders went on to win three Super Rugby titles straight.


I know you're sort of trying to troll Oom... but really dumb shit like that deserves calling out for being...

well, really dumb.

[OomStruisbaai]

I miss playing the Kiwis and Aussies

We all miss it, blame it on Mark Robinson for kicking us out.

We moved on now to URC. The quality is in the NH now. Most of our top players is there so it was a good move for us.

All our players will be available for TRC in August/Sept and we'll have a two All Black teams coming to get the equivalent of a small tour.
SARU done their homework well.

[OomStruisbaai]

After Dan Carter and Richie McCaw retired or left NZ rugby at the end of 2015, the Crusaders went on to win three Super Rugby titles straight.


I know you're sort of trying to troll Oom... but really dumb shit like that deserves calling out for being...

well, really dumb.

It's not dumb shit. You lot blame Foster, it's always the easy way out. He try to start from zero building again.

[Guy Smiley]

After Dan Carter and Richie McCaw retired or left NZ rugby at the end of 2015, the Crusaders went on to win three Super Rugby titles straight.


I know you're sort of trying to troll Oom... but really dumb shit like that deserves calling out for being...

well, really dumb.

It's not dumb shit. You lot blame Foster, it's always the easy way out. He try to start from zero building again.

Oh sorry... when you said

The Crusaders struggle even more without the likes of Carter/McCaw. Must be the coaching.

I thought you had a point to make about the Crusaders. Or... anything.

[Gumboot]

After Dan Carter and Richie McCaw retired or left NZ rugby at the end of 2015, the Crusaders went on to win three Super Rugby titles straight.

Starting in 2017 when Razor replaced the dud coach who won nothing in 8 years.

[OomStruisbaai]

After Dan Carter and Richie McCaw retired or left NZ rugby at the end of 2015, the Crusaders went on to win three Super Rugby titles straight.

Starting in 2017 when Razor replaced the dud coach who won nothing in 8 years.

Sorry , so Carter/McAwe didn't play a role.

[Gumboot]

After Dan Carter and Richie McCaw retired or left NZ rugby at the end of 2015, the Crusaders went on to win three Super Rugby titles straight.

Starting in 2017 when Razor replaced the dud coach who won nothing in 8 years.

Sorry , so Carter/McAwe didn't play a role.

Read, Franks, Crotty etc played a big role. But not a winning one.

[Farva]

Not really upset SA is out.
The one sided reffing (20-1 penalty count???) and your team disappearing for 3 weeks in the middle of the tournament hurt it.
I loved super rugby AU, and hopefully super rugby will be great fun too.

[Torquemada 1420]

Not long - the preseason games start soon.

It's a pity we don't have the Saffers this year, and a bigger pity that we diluted it from 12 teams.

Proof positive that you don't bite the hand that feeds you.

It was great as S12 and still okay as 14. I would keenly watch the early hours games on a Fri and Sat. But the comp is a bore now to neutrals. What made it great (like the early Euro comps) was the international nature of the games. The Conf system is a dire watch and crowds suggest it's not exactly banging it with the locals either. NPC is infinitely more interesting.

[Achahoish]

As a Saffwr I am glad we move to the NH. Make a lot more sense, time zone, rugby , money wise, ext.

The cherry will be to play in the 6 Nations.

Bugger off!!! We're full.

The entry of SA sides has totally screwed the PRO14 with it's conferences.

Bring back back the Super 12

[Monk]

As a Saffwr I am glad we move to the NH. Make a lot more sense, time zone, rugby , money wise, ext.

The cherry will be to play in the 6 Nations.

Bugger off!!! We're full.

Full of Saffas ja

[MungoMan]

I enjoyed the season that Highlanders won it, there were a lot of good players in that side, guys who maybe didn't have the box office that the likes of the 'Saders had or even their team mates who were in the ABs sides, but guys who collectively punched above their weight, Dan Pryor, John Hardie, Nasi Manu, Marty Banks, Richard Buckman, Patrick Osborne.

I had adopted them as my Super team a few years before because of the Scottish connection, they were a fun side to watch.

I really rated Buckman. But for a couple of untimely injuries, he might've gone on to higher honours. I think one of the ABs coaches (Shag?) said he was on their radar at some point.

Excellent player. Clever and very enjoyable to watch.

[Grandpa]

I asked Enzo to change my name after that post…

Ah... All this time, I thought you were Shanky...

Could be he is and we're winding up GS?

I don't think he's falling for it...

[Grandpa]

The ABs have been in decline for several years and has more to do with selection and coaching policy than anything else, least of all the demise of SR.

I'm not sure about that. Even the best teams can't come up with the world's best in all fifteen positions and the second best on the bench for many world cup cycles.
New Zealand won't drop down too low, but neither will they always be that team full of Carters and McCaws - if not the best ever in their positions, at least on the nominees list

I agree with you regarding the loss of outstanding talent... along with those two, the ABs had a team stacked with ridiculous talent from around 2011 through until 2015. Naturally, when you lose outstanding players through retirement, you'll see a drop in performance...

my post isn't ignoring that. I and a few others are firmly of the opinion the current coach is a dud and that our tactics and game management are suffering through his tenure. Likewise, our selection policies leave a lot to be desired with constant changes to starting line ups a feature now, players being shoehorned into the team out of position or lacking form.

One glaring example I can offer... since Hansen's reign with Foster as assistant, the ABs have favoured a spread defense with minimum players committing to the breakdown. The philosophy has been claimed by both coaches as 'wanting to play the footy'. The preference is to have numbers across the field ready to attack. The concept of earning the right to move it wide through strength of possession or winning it has become foreign to the team... until a 20 minute period against France in the last test of last year when they suddenly rediscovered the rugby basic if rumbling the ball forwards through heavy forward play, picking and going... and it paid off in spades with the tactic bringing them right back into the game before they reverted to type and played looser, eventually losing the game.

That is how this AB team loses games, by the way. It's a pattern and despite this being as clear as a brick wall in front of them, the coaching panel can't see the problem let alone find a away around it.

They are clueless and getting left behind by more committed teams playing smart, hard rugby. This pattern has been developing since Hansen's tenure, exemplified by the glossy notion of having 'two playmakers' in the backline... and idea that's as old as having a player wearing the number 12 jersey and yet touted as a sort of genius strategy that was designed to allow playing both Damien MacKenzie and Beauden Barrett at the same time... two mercurial players who don't set their players up preferring to go it alone.

The rot is well and truly established and needs a cleanout of staff to be reversed.


Super Rugby, on the other hand, has a number of very good coaching appointments and teams playing well structured and skilful rugby.

Couldn't agree more. But I do find it odd that it isn't obvious to some of the best coaches in NZ... and also a coach that has won two world cups? Bizarre...

[Dan54]

I getting ready for start of it that's for sure. Always do this time of year, can't wait to see questions answered on how different players will go. I with NZer, super 12 was the bees knees, wish we got something like that again.
Anyway we got what we got so will have to make most of it.

[Gumboot]

I getting ready for start of it that's for sure. Always do this time of year, can't wait to see questions answered on how different players will go.

Same. I'm especially interested to see if Caleb Clarke's improved enough to make it back into the ABs or, as I suspect, he was a one-year wonder.

Also keen to see how Tuivasa-Sheck goes.

[Guy Smiley]

I getting ready for start of it that's for sure. Always do this time of year, can't wait to see questions answered on how different players will go.

Same. I'm especially interested to see if Caleb Clarke's improved enough to make it back into the ABs or, as I suspect, he was a one-year wonder.

Also keen to see how Tuivasa-Sheck goes.

There's a bit of talk in different places about Caleb Clarke, I've had a few people talk him up.

Like you, I think we've seen all he has but it would be nice to be proven wrong.

I want to see who we've got coming up in different roles... lock is a worry and some strong props would be good. Interesting to see how the 14okg Tamaiti Williams goes for the Saders, he looked good in short bursts last year.

[Guy Smiley]

A fixture list would be handy...

https://www.superrugby.co.nz/pacific/

Round 1
Time Date Game Venue
7:05 PM Friday 18 February Moana Pasifika v Blues Mt Smart Stadium, Auckland
9:45 PM Friday 18 February Waratahs v Fijian Drua CommBank Stadium, Sydney
4:35 PM Saturday 19 February Chiefs v Highlanders FMG Stadium Waikato, Hamilton
7:05 PM Saturday 19 February Crusaders v Hurricanes Orangetheory Stadium, Christchurch
9:45 PM Saturday 19 February Reds v Rebels Suncorp Stadium, Brisbane
4:00 PM Sunday 20 February Brumbies v Force GIO Stadium, Canberra

I won't bore you with posting the entire fixture as that would be a huge post, but Rds 7, 8 & 9 are hye rounds with teams sitting out the round, then all games are in Melbourne for rd 10 for a weekend rugby festival of three double headers.

It's the weekend before Anzac Day. If borders are open again for Trans Tasman travellers, I can see some very hungover lads questioning their life decisions come the morning of the 25th.

[Gumboot]

There's a bit of talk in different places about Caleb Clarke, I've had a few people talk him up.

Like you, I think we've seen all he has but it would be nice to be proven wrong.

I want to see who we've got coming up in different roles... lock is a worry and some strong props would be good. Interesting to see how the 14okg Tamaiti Williams goes for the Saders, he looked good in short bursts last year.

Yeah, Williams is very exciting prospect. I hope Atu Moli can stay fit for the season...such a shame injuries have stalled his career to date. Ethan de Groot also impressed me in his rare appearances last year. Hopefully a couple of young tightheads will also emerge.

I'm actually quietly confident about lock. While Whitelock and Retallick's best days are probably behind them, they still have a lot to offer this close to the next RWC. And with young locks like Tupou Vaa'i, Josh Lord, Sam Darry, Strange and Parkinson (whenever he recovers) coming through I'm not too worried about this position.

[Guy Smiley]

Lord looks promising for sure, although still a little light in the frame I thought. Early days yet but I wasn't really impressed with Vaa'i in his test appearances last year although to be fair he's very raw yet. PPP is the most promising of the lot to me as he already seems to have the inherent toughness needed and real smarts.

[WoodlandsRFC]

I enjoyed the season that Highlanders won it, there were a lot of good players in that side, guys who maybe didn't have the box office that the likes of the 'Saders had or even their team mates who were in the ABs sides, but guys who collectively punched above their weight, Dan Pryor, John Hardie, Nasi Manu, Marty Banks, Richard Buckman, Patrick Osborne.

I had adopted them as my Super team a few years before because of the Scottish connection, they were a fun side to watch.

Epic season that one. Funny, it's still a sore spot for alot of my Wellington mates, who are certain that Eliot Dixon try was never grounded. One of the mates has even put together a play by play conspiracy level video categorically "proving" that was never grounded. Was my favourite final purely from an underdog POV, of course, I'm biased, as a Southlander. However, that year was the last great year of Super Rugby in my opinion, before conferences and expansion etc cooked the goose.