The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

[Slick]

I hope they are just rumours. It was suggested just how mentally small minded they are that they've seen that as the end of the 6N

Haven’t heard these rumours. Please not Hoggy…

On another note, I see that Fin Smith, Hutchinson and Dingwall were 10,12 and 13 in the Premiership team of the week

[Biffer]

I am unsurprised by this statistic

[Big D]

I hope they are just rumours. It was suggested just how mentally small minded they are that they've seen that as the end of the 6N

Haven’t heard these rumours. Please not Hoggy…

On another note, I see that Fin Smith, Hutchinson and Dingwall were 10,12 and 13 in the Premiership team of the week

It depends on what a "big night out" means really.

Players drink after games all the time.

[Big D]

I am unsurprised by this statistic

I don't think he'd have made a difference v France or SA to be fair.

[Slick]

Well…. I won’t say…

Not sure about SA but I’m convinced he would have made the difference against Wales and, OK, possibly France

It’s genuinely the only decision that has pissed me off to any extent from Toonie

[Slick]

I hope they are just rumours. It was suggested just how mentally small minded they are that they've seen that as the end of the 6N

Haven’t heard these rumours. Please not Hoggy…

On another note, I see that Fin Smith, Hutchinson and Dingwall were 10,12 and 13 in the Premiership team of the week

It depends on what a "big night out" means really.

Players drink after games all the time.

Absolutely, have zero issue with them going out and getting lashed after a game. I haven’t seen the rumours but the tenor of it on here seems a bit more sinister

[I like neeps]

I've seen quite a bit from Townsend to suggest that's less true. He has changed his approach at least twice now (fastest playing team in international rugby --> toughest defence in international rugby --> whatever it is we are doing now). This speaks to flexibility and adaptability, which were both traits not seen in Cockerill and which would be unusual under a dictator style. Beyond this, his change in approach to Russell, first rehabilitating him and then admitting his mistake and admitting him to the leadership group suggests he does understand others motivations and can use them. He also built a culture at Glasgow (or built on one) that has endured well after he left, which again speaks to his ability to make a performance environment for others to thrive in.

It's always hard to say from the outside, but it does seem to be a much happier and more productive environment than under Cockerill at Edinburgh.

We've now regressed at fast playing attacking rugby AND keep it tight defensive rugby though. Doesn't really say too much about keeping performance at the same level.

I wonder about the camp. I listen to Ryan Wilson's podcasts sometimes and it does sound like they enjoyed the off the pitch in Japan 2019 too much going and getting trashed in bars midweek at times. Then the Russell revolt. Who really knows, Edinburgh were flying before covid I doubt anyone would've predicted the complete collapse and clear unhappiness in the camp even 12 months before the end of cockers.

Sure, but that could be just bad coaching. A performance environment is not the same thing as good coaching. It is about creating the environment in which individuals and the team can excel - if they then use that environment to deliver shit and/or contradictory coaching points that's in some way irrelevant.

I think he's a better coach than he is at creating environments. With Scotland he's managed to successfully coach two completely distinct gameplans but we seem to fall apart when it comes to penalties, or beers in the case of Finn. Which are more performance culture I think.

[Biffer]

I am unsurprised by this statistic

I don't think he'd have made a difference v France or SA to be fair.

Well, I’m pretty sure he would have against Wales, and if we’d won there, confidence and momentum into France would have been different. Considering the problems with the top six inches in that game where players tried to force things which resulted in tries given away and our own tries butchered, we could/would have been a damn sight closer. And France have looked less dominant than they were against us when playing everyone else.

[Big D]

I am unsurprised by this statistic

I don't think he'd have made a difference v France or SA to be fair.

Well, I’m pretty sure he would have against Wales, and if we’d won there, confidence and momentum into France would have been different. Considering the problems with the top six inches in that game where players tried to force things which resulted in tries given away and our own tries butchered, we could/would have been a damn sight closer. And France have looked less dominant than they were against us when playing everyone else.

I am no great fan of ST but SJ wouldn't have made up for the forwards getting horsed which is why they were trying to force things.

As far as I can see the 5 losses without SJ were Wales twice (ZF red card game), France, Ireland (Autumn nations cup) and SA. Of those sides, we have a good recent record against 1 of them with Taylor or SJ at 12.

I like SJ, he should be starting (until Redpath is available or we give the Northampton lads ago to see what they have there) but he's not been the missing piece against those other sides when fit over the years so I'm not sure he would have been in those games hes missed recently. He has a combined win total v Wales/Ireland/SA of 1, a behind close door game with bad winds.

[dkm57]

I've pretty much written off the Ireland match, just hope we can keep it respectable and within 7.

France and Ireland have been on a different planet this 6N, Scotland, Wales and England fighting for scraps and Italy sadly irrelevant. The loss to Wales really hacks me off though.

[Slick]

I've pretty much written off the Ireland match, just hope we can keep it respectable and within 7.

France and Ireland have been on a different planet this 6N, Scotland, Wales and England fighting for scraps and Italy sadly irrelevant. The loss to Wales really hacks me off though.

I know what you mean, I'm usually getting optimistic by this stage of match week but I just can't see any scenario where we win in Dublin. I'm not sure I agree that France and Ireland have been miles ahead - France turned on a lot of small points, as always with us - but Ireland just always strangle us.

[charltom]

I've pretty much written off the Ireland match, just hope we can keep it respectable and within 7.

France and Ireland have been on a different planet this 6N, Scotland, Wales and England fighting for scraps and Italy sadly irrelevant. The loss to Wales really hacks me off though.

I know what you mean, I'm usually getting optimistic by this stage of match week but I just can't see any scenario where we win in Dublin. I'm not sure I agree that France and Ireland have been miles ahead - France turned on a lot of small points, as always with us - but Ireland just always strangle us.

Honestly, a lot of it will come down to the referee and the teams' response to him.

I'm not one to complain about refs, but the following are true.

Don't forget that a lot of the France match turned on the ref's decision making. Scotland weren't blown off the park but the score made it look like that.

Ireland were held for a long time by England partly because of the ref's treatment of Ireland's forwards.

If this weekend's ref whistles Ireland's pack the same way, then there's hope for Scotland.

But I think Scotland's biggest failing in recent years has been in how they deal with the ref: both in analysing his previous so that they know how to play him, and in being able to adjust to his interpretation on the day. And of course, in communicating with and influencing the ref. And against Ireland, you need that.

[Biffer]

I've pretty much written off the Ireland match, just hope we can keep it respectable and within 7.

France and Ireland have been on a different planet this 6N, Scotland, Wales and England fighting for scraps and Italy sadly irrelevant. The loss to Wales really hacks me off though.

Bizarrely, a bonus point against Ireland might get us third place. If France tub England and Wales don’t horse Italy. Which would be weird.

[SaintK]

I've pretty much written off the Ireland match, just hope we can keep it respectable and within 7.

France and Ireland have been on a different planet this 6N, Scotland, Wales and England fighting for scraps and Italy sadly irrelevant. The loss to Wales really hacks me off though.

I know what you mean, I'm usually getting optimistic by this stage of match week but I just can't see any scenario where we win in Dublin. I'm not sure I agree that France and Ireland have been miles ahead - France turned on a lot of small points, as always with us - but Ireland just always strangle us.

Honestly, a lot of it will come down to the referee and the teams' response to him.

I'm not one to complain about refs, but the following are true.

Don't forget that a lot of the France match turned on the ref's decision making. Scotland weren't blown off the park but the score made it look like that.

Ireland were held for a long time by England partly because of the ref's treatment of Ireland's forwards.

If this weekend's ref whistles Ireland's pack the same way, then there's hope for Scotland.

But I think Scotland's biggest failing in recent years has been in how they deal with the ref: both in analysing his previous so that they know how to play him, and in being able to adjust to his interpretation on the day. And of course, in communicating with and influencing the ref. And against Ireland, you need that.

Who is the ref

[iarmhí]

I know what you mean, I'm usually getting optimistic by this stage of match week but I just can't see any scenario where we win in Dublin. I'm not sure I agree that France and Ireland have been miles ahead - France turned on a lot of small points, as always with us - but Ireland just always strangle us.

Honestly, a lot of it will come down to the referee and the teams' response to him.

I'm not one to complain about refs, but the following are true.

Don't forget that a lot of the France match turned on the ref's decision making. Scotland weren't blown off the park but the score made it look like that.

Ireland were held for a long time by England partly because of the ref's treatment of Ireland's forwards.

If this weekend's ref whistles Ireland's pack the same way, then there's hope for Scotland.

But I think Scotland's biggest failing in recent years has been in how they deal with the ref: both in analysing his previous so that they know how to play him, and in being able to adjust to his interpretation on the day. And of course, in communicating with and influencing the ref. And against Ireland, you need that.

Who is the ref

Wayne Barnes

[SaintK]

Honestly, a lot of it will come down to the referee and the teams' response to him.

I'm not one to complain about refs, but the following are true.

Don't forget that a lot of the France match turned on the ref's decision making. Scotland weren't blown off the park but the score made it look like that.

Ireland were held for a long time by England partly because of the ref's treatment of Ireland's forwards.

If this weekend's ref whistles Ireland's pack the same way, then there's hope for Scotland.

But I think Scotland's biggest failing in recent years has been in how they deal with the ref: both in analysing his previous so that they know how to play him, and in being able to adjust to his interpretation on the day. And of course, in communicating with and influencing the ref. And against Ireland, you need that.

Who is the ref

Wayne Barnes

Both teams should be fine then.

[Tichtheid]

There was a good video on social media a day or so ago showing from above how George and Genge doubled up on Furlong so in effect it was two v one at the scrum, Sinkler was more than capable of taking care of Healy and the English left hand side of the scrum split Furlong off from Sheehan, so even with a winger on the flank, England were able to demolish the Irish scrum.

I've liked Healy for a long time but at 34 and having had his share of injuries he's not the player he was.

Scotland's problems, to me, lie in lack of support at the breakdown, in attack we've been getting isolated and letting a defender get over the ball far too often. That means we lose momentum, territory and possession all in a split second.
There have been stupid penalties elsewhere but all teams give away those, so I'm less concerned about them, as frustrating as they are.

[Slick]

There was a good video on social media a day or so ago showing from above how George and Genge doubled up on Furlong so in effect it was two v one at the scrum, Sinkler was more than capable of taking care of Healy and the English left hand side of the scrum split Furlong off from Sheehan, so even with a winger on the flank, England were able to demolish the Irish scrum.

I've liked Healy for a long time but at 34 and having had his share of injuries he's not the player he was.

Scotland's problems, to me, lie in lack of support at the breakdown, in attack we've been getting isolated and letting a defender get over the ball far too often. That means we lose momentum, territory and possession all in a split second.
There have been stupid penalties elsewhere but all teams give away those, so I'm less concerned about them, as frustrating as they are.

There was an interview in the paper today with Matt Fagerson was saying that their frustration is the number of penalties they are giving away in defence for not rolling away and the like. His suggestion is that they are trying to develop the defence even more from the last couple of years and it hasn't quite clicked. Maybe they are overcomplicating something that was working fine?

[Biffer]

There was a good video on social media a day or so ago showing from above how George and Genge doubled up on Furlong so in effect it was two v one at the scrum, Sinkler was more than capable of taking care of Healy and the English left hand side of the scrum split Furlong off from Sheehan, so even with a winger on the flank, England were able to demolish the Irish scrum.

I've liked Healy for a long time but at 34 and having had his share of injuries he's not the player he was.

Scotland's problems, to me, lie in lack of support at the breakdown, in attack we've been getting isolated and letting a defender get over the ball far too often. That means we lose momentum, territory and possession all in a split second.
There have been stupid penalties elsewhere but all teams give away those, so I'm less concerned about them, as frustrating as they are.

Missing Ritchie. He's often the first to arrive and causes a lot of problems

[Tichtheid]

There was a good video on social media a day or so ago showing from above how George and Genge doubled up on Furlong so in effect it was two v one at the scrum, Sinkler was more than capable of taking care of Healy and the English left hand side of the scrum split Furlong off from Sheehan, so even with a winger on the flank, England were able to demolish the Irish scrum.

I've liked Healy for a long time but at 34 and having had his share of injuries he's not the player he was.

Scotland's problems, to me, lie in lack of support at the breakdown, in attack we've been getting isolated and letting a defender get over the ball far too often. That means we lose momentum, territory and possession all in a split second.
There have been stupid penalties elsewhere but all teams give away those, so I'm less concerned about them, as frustrating as they are.

Missing Ritchie. He's often the first to arrive and causes a lot of problems

He's my favourite Scottish player, along with Wee Darcy, but in the hour he was on against England we shipped six (edit, sorry it was eight) penalties and he himself was pinged twice

[KingBlairhorn]

I've pretty much written off the Ireland match, just hope we can keep it respectable and within 7.

France and Ireland have been on a different planet this 6N, Scotland, Wales and England fighting for scraps and Italy sadly irrelevant. The loss to Wales really hacks me off though.

Bizarrely, a bonus point against Ireland might get us third place. If France tub England and Wales don’t horse Italy. Which would be weird.

As in one LBP or as in 5 points for a BP win? Because only one of those is remotely plausible

[KingBlairhorn]

I've pretty much written off the Ireland match, just hope we can keep it respectable and within 7.

France and Ireland have been on a different planet this 6N, Scotland, Wales and England fighting for scraps and Italy sadly irrelevant. The loss to Wales really hacks me off though.

I know what you mean, I'm usually getting optimistic by this stage of match week but I just can't see any scenario where we win in Dublin. I'm not sure I agree that France and Ireland have been miles ahead - France turned on a lot of small points, as always with us - but Ireland just always strangle us.

I am 100% on board with the pessimism. I cannot see a way for us to win this match. Ireland are just better than us in every department. Their individual players are better in most positions, but they also play better as a team than us and have far more mental resilience. Unfortunately I can see a 20 point loss without Ireland even getting into top gear.

Sucks.

[Biffer]

I've pretty much written off the Ireland match, just hope we can keep it respectable and within 7.

France and Ireland have been on a different planet this 6N, Scotland, Wales and England fighting for scraps and Italy sadly irrelevant. The loss to Wales really hacks me off though.

Bizarrely, a bonus point against Ireland might get us third place. If France tub England and Wales don’t horse Italy. Which would be weird.

As in one LBP or as in 5 points for a BP win? Because only one of those is remotely plausible

Losing bonus point puts us on 11. England currently on 10, Wales currently on 6. Our points difference is -8, Wales is -27. So it's not a mad idea that England stay on ten, Wales and Scotland on 11 with us having a marginally better points difference, which is the first tiebreaker.

[Big D]

So Duhan and Ewels get the same ban. No issue with reds but the punishments shouldn't be the same.

[SaintK]

So Duhan and Ewels get the same ban. No issue with reds but the punishments shouldn't be the same.

Why so? Both were hits to a players head. One head to head and the other hand and arm to head both with the same outcome.
Been a busy week for diciplinary panels. Rona L Irish and Hendrickson of Chiefs both with 3 match bans for head on head red cards

[KingBlairhorn]

Bizarrely, a bonus point against Ireland might get us third place. If France tub England and Wales don’t horse Italy. Which would be weird.

As in one LBP or as in 5 points for a BP win? Because only one of those is remotely plausible

Losing bonus point puts us on 11. England currently on 10, Wales currently on 6. Our points difference is -8, Wales is -27. So it's not a mad idea that England stay on ten, Wales and Scotland on 11 with us having a marginally better points difference, which is the first tiebreaker.

Okay, understood thanks. That would certainly put the cat amongst the pigeons when it comes to those sharpening their knives for Toonie. Regardless of the Ireland result, I think it's been a poor tournament, but that would actually be a reasonable result and in line with where I thought we should aspire to be before the tournament kicked off (i.e. France and Ireland top two, us fighting with Wales and England for 3-5).

[Slick]

So Duhan and Ewels get the same ban. No issue with reds but the punishments shouldn't be the same.

Why so? Both were hits to a players head. One head to head and the other hand and arm to head both with the same outcome.
Been a busy week for diciplinary panels. Rona L Irish and Hendrickson of Chiefs both with 3 match bans for head on head red cards

Do you honestly think there was the same level of danger? I mean, one got knocked out and helped off, the other was in the frame to replace his attacker the next weekend, don't think that's the same outcome. I'm not going to argue with you on this because you are just being a very silly boy

[Slick]

As in one LBP or as in 5 points for a BP win? Because only one of those is remotely plausible

Losing bonus point puts us on 11. England currently on 10, Wales currently on 6. Our points difference is -8, Wales is -27. So it's not a mad idea that England stay on ten, Wales and Scotland on 11 with us having a marginally better points difference, which is the first tiebreaker.

Okay, understood thanks. That would certainly put the cat amongst the pigeons when it comes to those sharpening their knives for Toonie. Regardless of the Ireland result, I think it's been a poor tournament, but that would actually be a reasonable result and in line with where I thought we should aspire to be before the tournament kicked off (i.e. France and Ireland top two, us fighting with Wales and England for 3-5).

Wales again though... utter gash and probably still going to get a 3rd place, got to hand it to them

[Tichtheid]

So Duhan and Ewels get the same ban. No issue with reds but the punishments shouldn't be the same.

Why so? Both were hits to a players head. One head to head and the other hand and arm to head both with the same outcome.
Been a busy week for diciplinary panels. Rona L Irish and Hendrickson of Chiefs both with 3 match bans for head on head red cards

Do you honestly think there was the same level of danger? I mean, one got knocked out and helped off, the other was in the frame to replace his attacker the next weekend, don't think that's the same outcome. I'm not going to argue with you on this because you are just being a very silly boy

"The same outcome" was that both resulted in red cards, but the similarity ends there.

van der Merwe's was contact between the fleshy underside of the forearm and the tackler's face - zero danger to Rowe.

Ewels ended Ryan's participation in the game and put him under return to play protocols

The sanctions being the same show that they just don't take head injuries seriously at all, it's a tick box exercise, not a flying fuck given.

[SaintK]

So Duhan and Ewels get the same ban. No issue with reds but the punishments shouldn't be the same.

Why so? Both were hits to a players head. One head to head and the other hand and arm to head both with the same outcome.
Been a busy week for diciplinary panels. Rona L Irish and Hendrickson of Chiefs both with 3 match bans for head on head red cards

Do you honestly think there was the same level of danger? I mean, one got knocked out and helped off, the other was in the frame to replace his attacker the next weekend, don't think that's the same outcome. I'm not going to argue with you on this because you are just being a very silly boy

Yes, quite! Rancid bait and all that
The Rona and Hendrickson cards were identical to Ewels.

[Slick]

Why so? Both were hits to a players head. One head to head and the other hand and arm to head both with the same outcome.
Been a busy week for diciplinary panels. Rona L Irish and Hendrickson of Chiefs both with 3 match bans for head on head red cards

Do you honestly think there was the same level of danger? I mean, one got knocked out and helped off, the other was in the frame to replace his attacker the next weekend, don't think that's the same outcome. I'm not going to argue with you on this because you are just being a very silly boy

Yes, quite! Rancid bait and all that
The Rona and Hendrickson cards were identical to Ewels.

[Big D]

JP Doyle, who I believe has been quietly reading low level games up here for a while is appointed high performance refs coach.

[Tichtheid]

JP Doyle, who I believe has been quietly reading low level games up here for a while is appointed high performance refs coach.

It's a terrific appointment.

[Big D]

Thistle, who have been right a lot suggesting Kinghorn at 10 at the weekend.

[Tichtheid]

Thistle, who have been right a lot suggesting Kinghorn at 10 at the weekend.

That would be a humungous call.

I've been a cheerleader for him, I think he is going to be brilliant, but I wouldn't start him at ten on Saturday

[Big D]

Thistle, who have been right a lot suggesting Kinghorn at 10 at the weekend.

That would be a humungous call.

I've been a cheerleader for him, I think he is going to be brilliant, but I wouldn't start him at ten on Saturday

It is certainly throwing him in at the deep end.

[I like neeps]

Thistle, who have been right a lot suggesting Kinghorn at 10 at the weekend.

That would be a humungous call.

I've been a cheerleader for him, I think he is going to be brilliant, but I wouldn't start him at ten on Saturday

Could be lightning in a bottle. Could be a bloodbath.

I'm very concerned about Kinghorn's goal kicking, Ireland have a great defence too. I get it though - don't think Russell has played hugely well and there's the rumours of the Rome piss up and Townsend is driving the Kinghorn to 10 so is a true believer.

[KingBlairhorn]

Thistle, who have been right a lot suggesting Kinghorn at 10 at the weekend.

That would be a humungous call.

I've been a cheerleader for him, I think he is going to be brilliant, but I wouldn't start him at ten on Saturday

Could be lightning in a bottle. Could be a bloodbath.

I'm very concerned about Kinghorn's goal kicking, Ireland have a great defence too. I get it though - don't think Russell has played hugely well and there's the rumours of the Rome piss up and Townsend is driving the Kinghorn to 10 so is a true believer.

Are you sure they weren't talking about the Edinburgh Glasgow game?

[Slick]

Thistle, who have been right a lot suggesting Kinghorn at 10 at the weekend.

That would be a humungous call.

I've been a cheerleader for him, I think he is going to be brilliant, but I wouldn't start him at ten on Saturday

Could be lightning in a bottle. Could be a bloodbath.

I'm very concerned about Kinghorn's goal kicking, Ireland have a great defence too. I get it though - don't think Russell has played hugely well and there's the rumours of the Rome piss up and Townsend is driving the Kinghorn to 10 so is a true believer.

Can’t see this. Although if it’s true that there was a breach of standards and Finn was a ringleader that’s probably it for him for a while, at least while Toony is in charge

[Jock42]

That would be a humungous call.

I've been a cheerleader for him, I think he is going to be brilliant, but I wouldn't start him at ten on Saturday

Could be lightning in a bottle. Could be a bloodbath.

I'm very concerned about Kinghorn's goal kicking, Ireland have a great defence too. I get it though - don't think Russell has played hugely well and there's the rumours of the Rome piss up and Townsend is driving the Kinghorn to 10 so is a true believer.

Are you sure they weren't talking about the Edinburgh Glasgow game?

It was a very vague tweet.