(No) Exam Results,

[Bimbowomxn]

As I said that comment was my opinion.

[Insane_Homer]

One figure being actually higher than another isn’t an anecdote btw.

Says, the guy that doesn't believe 212 is less than 270.

[pigsy]

I'm a HoD and have been analysing data the last day or so.

We were careful to rank pupils (as instructed) and we benchmarked common data such as mocks and internal assessments that get repeated, so we could compare the current year group with previous year groups, and so come up with how many pupils we expected to get each grade.

We not only had a sense of responsibility to the school and pupils, but also the country as a whole not to inflate the grades. As a result, we did allocate the full range of grades as harsh as it seemed for some pupils.

Its clear an algorithm has been used that is fairly blind to circumstances and has been used in a cavalier fashion.

We have been massively downgraded with our Value Added more than half a grade lower than it has been before (for those not in education, this is a huge drop). Moreover, it seems that subjects with smaller numbers and higher grades were left alone, whereas subjects with higher numbers were brought down heavily to compensate for the smaller subjects being left alone (our languages department are having their best set of results ever) so that the overall school results were brought into line with where the government thought it should be.

This explains why independents have much better results as they have a wider curriculum with smaller cohort sizes so the algorithm used works for them.

As an example of how stupid and unthinking this all is we had a pupil who we allocated an A grade for maths and also for further maths. Further maths has a small cohort so their grades were left alone, but maths itself is a large cohort and was heavily downgraded.

This pupil, therefore, ended up with a C grade for maths and an A grade for Further Maths. Its so stupid it beggers belief.

[yermum]

there was a lad on newsnight last night predicted 4As to get into cambridge for medicine.

First prospect from his school ever.

got downgraded and lost the place.

[pigsy]

there was a lad on newsnight last night predicted 4As to get into cambridge for medicine.

First prospect from his school ever.

got downgraded and lost the place.

Yep, we saw this in scotland. This will be because he is in a poor performing school with few top grades.

I hope Cambridge are sensible with this and provide an avenue for him to get in without having to reapply in full.

[URH]

Why does it matter what uni it is? Some of my schools’ pupils have missed out on their course because the exam boards downgraded them. So gutting for everyone involved if they’ve missed out

[sefton]

Based on last year’s algorithm our L3VA is +0.4 for academic and +0.7 for applied general which would be a slight rise on last year. About 20% of our grades were changed including some going up so less than half of the national average. Maths is the one I’m finding confusing as we had one student drop from a C to an E.

[ASMO]

The whole thing is a giant shit sandwich, and for once i think the teachers are blameless here.

[Bimbowomxn]

The whole thing is a giant shit sandwich, and for once i think the teachers are blameless here.

I actually agree.

[URH]

I can see the government (in NI anyway) pushing hard enough for grades to be revised. We have gave our pupils the predicting grades we gave them to help with appeal.

[Biffer]

I'm a HoD and have been analysing data the last day or so.

We were careful to rank pupils (as instructed) and we benchmarked common data such as mocks and internal assessments that get repeated, so we could compare the current year group with previous year groups, and so come up with how many pupils we expected to get each grade.

We not only had a sense of responsibility to the school and pupils, but also the country as a whole not to inflate the grades. As a result, we did allocate the full range of grades as harsh as it seemed for some pupils.

Its clear an algorithm has been used that is fairly blind to circumstances and has been used in a cavalier fashion.

We have been massively downgraded with our Value Added more than half a grade lower than it has been before (for those not in education, this is a huge drop). Moreover, it seems that subjects with smaller numbers and higher grades were left alone, whereas subjects with higher numbers were brought down heavily to compensate for the smaller subjects being left alone (our languages department are having their best set of results ever) so that the overall school results were brought into line with where the government thought it should be.

This explains why independents have much better results as they have a wider curriculum with smaller cohort sizes so the algorithm used works for them.

As an example of how stupid and unthinking this all is we had a pupil who we allocated an A grade for maths and also for further maths. Further maths has a small cohort so their grades were left alone, but maths itself is a large cohort and was heavily downgraded.

This pupil, therefore, ended up with a C grade for maths and an A grade for Further Maths. Its so stupid it beggers belief.

You might want to contact the Good Law Project, they're putting together a legal case around the results. Looking for students who have been downgraded at least two grades.

[SaintK]

The whole thing is a giant shit sandwich, and for once i think the teachers are blameless here.

Results are "robust and dependable" according to the entitled slug who is our PM
It must be correct as he said it at least 3 times in an interview yesterday.

[Bimbowomxn]

You might want to contact the Good Law Project, they're putting together a legal case around the results. Looking for students who have been downgraded at least two grades.

And fill Jolys pockets for nought!

[eldanielfire]

there was a lad on newsnight last night predicted 4As to get into cambridge for medicine.

First prospect from his school ever.

got downgraded and lost the place.

Yep, we saw this in scotland. This will be because he is in a poor performing school with few top grades.

I hope Cambridge are sensible with this and provide an avenue for him to get in without having to reapply in full.

Yeah. I suppose poor but improving schools are the worst affected. I can't believe they didn't examine the algorithm would effect different sized samples. I saw our dept results and the grades looked as predicted, but one or two certainly were potentially gonna be higher (I don't have the final grades submitted as I'm not HOD). But also one boy who did jack sh't all year just about passed because we didn't get U grades last year so he scraped with an E.

It exposes the stupidity. I said at the start they should be fairly generous with awarding grades this year to avoid this sort of stupidity and tension to students futures. I hope the whole apply after exams idea gets out into place and perhaps a return to modular exam options because surely the predicted grades would have been more accurate with 50% of the grading already done and perhaps the January exams in year 13 as well. Then the exam boards could look at grading students with 50-75% of their grades complete. Much more accurate.

[Insane_Homer]

The whole thing is a giant shit sandwich, and for once i think the teachers are blameless here.

I actually agree.

Who the fuck is this???

[SaintK]

Don't always like or agree with everything Marina Hyde writes but she's got this one spot on

When Gavin Williamson was sacked as Theresa May’s defence secretary for leaking information from the National Security Council, he swore his innocence “on his children’s lives”. This seems to have been the gateway drug to the lives of other people’s children, with an entire A-level generation the latest batch of youngsters to experience the Williamson effect.

Gavin is now Boris Johnson’s education secretary – because really, why not? – and his handling of the pandemic year’s A-level results has been a disasterclass even by his own standards.

On the one hand, gotta feel for him. He’s had a mere five months’ notice that students would not be sitting their exams and to come up with ways of handling the situation as fairly and accessibly as possible.

On the other, the upshot is such a demonstrable shambles that the prime minister has felt moved to come out and call the grade system “robust” and “dependable”. As bad as all that, then. You’ve heard of the Kitemark – any Johnson imprimatur is the guaranteed shitemark.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisf ... urriculum

[eldanielfire]

In some nicer news:

[fishfoodie]

The whole thing is a giant shit sandwich, and for once i think the teachers are blameless here.

I actually agree.

Who the fuck is this???

He's probably doing his best not to get banned again.

After here, all that's left is mumsnet.

[.OverThere]

I actually agree.

Who the fuck is this???

He's probably doing his best not to get banned again.

After here, all that's left is mumsnet.

Is that why he's practicing with the womxn tag?

[Bimbowomxn]

I actually agree.

Who the fuck is this???

He's probably doing his best not to get banned again.

After here, all that's left is mumsnet.

I love reading your view of the world. You’re so wonderfully wrong so often, yet 100% confident. It’s an impressive skill

[Insane_Homer]

You’re so wonderfully wrong so often, yet 100% confident. It’s an impressive skill

Did you manage to keep a straight face while you said that to the mirror?

[Bimbowomxn]

You’re so wonderfully wrong so often, yet 100% confident. It’s an impressive skill

Did you manage to keep a straight face while you said that to the mirror?

Yep, I get picked up as wrong a few times. Acknowledge it and move on,


You though.

[fishfoodie]

It's one fucking years entry; & if it isn't reflective, the freshers will wash out anyway, so the Universities shouldn't care anyway.

Just do what Scotland did, & go with the Teachers assessment as the primary estimate, & just normalize of it.

[Glaston]

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck ... te-schools



Pretty much what Pigsy said.


Their conclusion
"Either way, we think Ofqual might have foreseen the possibility that independent schools would reap the greatest rewards from this decision.
Nevertheless, there are sound statistical reasons for exempting tiny cohorts from the full moderation process. In fact, it’s not clear whether Ofqual could have taken a different approach without actually penalising students in small classes. That would have also affected pupils at special schools, new schools and those taking unusual subjects."



Williamson is a twat but how is he responsible for Ofquals decision making?

[fishfoodie]

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck ... te-schools



Pretty much what Pigsy said.


Their conclusion
"Either way, we think Ofqual might have foreseen the possibility that independent schools would reap the greatest rewards from this decision.
Nevertheless, there are sound statistical reasons for exempting tiny cohorts from the full moderation process. In fact, it’s not clear whether Ofqual could have taken a different approach without actually penalising students in small classes. That would have also affected pupils at special schools, new schools and those taking unusual subjects."



Williamson is a twat but how is he responsible for Ofquals decision making?

Did he ask for Ofqual to model what the 2019 results would be, based on 2018, or previous results, to validate that the results from the model didn't deviate too significantly from the actual results in 2019 (or some other year) ?

Did he have the models general specification explained to him & accept it ?

In short; did he make any effort to over see the design & execution of the model used, by his Department ?

[ASMO]

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck ... te-schools



Pretty much what Pigsy said.


Their conclusion
"Either way, we think Ofqual might have foreseen the possibility that independent schools would reap the greatest rewards from this decision.
Nevertheless, there are sound statistical reasons for exempting tiny cohorts from the full moderation process. In fact, it’s not clear whether Ofqual could have taken a different approach without actually penalising students in small classes. That would have also affected pupils at special schools, new schools and those taking unusual subjects."



Williamson is a twat but how is he responsible for Ofquals decision making?

DfE trumps Ofquals decision making, and Ofqual would not have done any of this without fully consulting and getting DfE agreement.

[Lobby]

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck ... te-schools



Pretty much what Pigsy said.


Their conclusion
"Either way, we think Ofqual might have foreseen the possibility that independent schools would reap the greatest rewards from this decision.
Nevertheless, there are sound statistical reasons for exempting tiny cohorts from the full moderation process. In fact, it’s not clear whether Ofqual could have taken a different approach without actually penalising students in small classes. That would have also affected pupils at special schools, new schools and those taking unusual subjects."



Williamson is a twat but how is he responsible for Ofquals decision making?

DfE trumps Ofquals decision making, and Ofqual would not have done any of this without fully consulting and getting DfE agreement.

Ofqual consulted widely on the proposed system, and received responses from over 1400 institutions and organisations, including all of the teaching unions. When the process was finalized, it was welcomed by the teaching unions and others.

Results have actually increased across the board, and record numbers are going to university. There are anomalies, and some appear to have been treated unfairly by the agreed algorithms, but it’s difficult to see how it could have been otherwise. As the C4 fact-check notes, students from the poorest areas don’t appear to have been disadvantaged to the same extent as in Scotland. The main bone on contention appears to be that public schools have benefitted disproportionately from having small exam groups.

It would undoubtedly have been better if the Government hadn’t panicked at the last minute, and tried to modify the system, and if Gavin Williamson wasn’t so clearly an incompetent buffoon.

[Biffer]

One of the more bizarre things here is that the Oxford and Cambridge colleges, which place so much emphasis on days of interviews, tests and other assessments over and above someone’s grades, are all of a sudden refusing places on the basis of an algorithm ahead of their own assessment.

[robmatic]

One of the more bizarre things here is that the Oxford and Cambridge colleges, which place so much emphasis on days of interviews, tests and other assessments over and above someone’s grades, are all of a sudden refusing places on the basis of an algorithm ahead of their own assessment.

How strange that they're going with the option that privileges private school students.

[SaintK]

One of the more bizarre things here is that the Oxford and Cambridge colleges, which place so much emphasis on days of interviews, tests and other assessments over and above someone’s grades, are all of a sudden refusing places on the basis of an algorithm ahead of their own assessment.

Apart from Worcester College Oxford who haave confirmed all their offers stand

A statement on the website of Worcester College, which has about 700 students, said: "Many members of our college community and beyond have expressed their concern for the potential impact of yesterday's A-level results on this year's incoming students.

"At Worcester we made offers in 2020 to our most diverse cohort ever, and in response to the uncertainties surrounding this year's assessment, we have confirmed the places of all our UK offer-holders, irrespective of their A-level results."

[Biffer]

One of the more bizarre things here is that the Oxford and Cambridge colleges, which place so much emphasis on days of interviews, tests and other assessments over and above someone’s grades, are all of a sudden refusing places on the basis of an algorithm ahead of their own assessment.

Apart from Worcester College Oxford who haave confirmed all their offers stand

A statement on the website of Worcester College, which has about 700 students, said: "Many members of our college community and beyond have expressed their concern for the potential impact of yesterday's A-level results on this year's incoming students.

"At Worcester we made offers in 2020 to our most diverse cohort ever, and in response to the uncertainties surrounding this year's assessment, we have confirmed the places of all our UK offer-holders, irrespective of their A-level results."

Yeah, I'd seen that they were.

[pigsy]

I know that the Cambridge alumni are collecting signatures trying to pressure Cambridge to take all offer holders.

Its not just politics and morals. They also have a range of data for each applicant:

GCSE grades
A level (adjusted grades)
Personal statement/references
Aptitude test (if applicable)
Interview


Of the above, the A level adjusted grades are probably the least reliable, so why take pupils on the back of it? Especially if they are from those low achieving schools which Oxbridge are meant to be targeting and are worst hit by this farago.

[Deveron Boy]

The blond bluffer nowhere to be seen in relation to this - I’m not sure their playbook of ‘look at brown people in wee boats’ etc will be sufficient to change the news agenda. Just cnuts

[I like neeps]

The blond bluffer nowhere to be seen in relation to this - I’m not sure their playbook of ‘look at brown people in wee boats’ etc will be sufficient to change the news agenda. Just cnuts

Fortunately it seems Harry and Meghan bought a house. That's the news cycle sorted until 2024.

[I like neeps]

It's one fucking years entry; & if it isn't reflective, the freshers will wash out anyway, so the Universities shouldn't care anyway.

Just do what Scotland did, & go with the Teachers assessment as the primary estimate, & just normalize of it.

Most universities are so desperate for students the govt loan money that they'll accept anyone. Oxbridge and the elite universities are the minoritory.

[SaintK]

Good to see our cowardly government dealing with the exam shambles today
All gone into hiding and not even the most junior minister available for interview to explain how "robust" and "dependable" the results are

[fishfoodie]

Good to see our cowardly government dealing with the exam shambles today
All gone into hiding and not even the most junior minister available for interview to explain how "robust" and "dependable" the results are

I wonder has anyone tried explaining to the fireplace salesman, just how long it will take to go thru all the appeals for the A-Levels ?

With a bit of luck the GCSE ones will be done by the time those pupils have sat their A-Levels.

[Openside]

The whole thing is a giant shit sandwich, and for once i think the teachers are blameless here.

True, the problem is not all teachers and schools will have played it with a straight bat like Pigsy - What they should have done is try to ascertain how accurate each schools predictions are historically and work on that. I don't know why they didn't just get on and have the exams anyway they will have completed the syllabus and most exams are sat at 2M distances...

[ScarfaceClaw]

My boy is waiting for his GCSE marks. His mocks were a big wake up call and we’d had him working with extra tutors. Everything was heading upwards grades wise and it just seemed to click for him. Sadly though I fear he’s going to be pummelled by the algo grader. Not looking forward to the inevitable FFS shambles in a week or so.

[Openside]

One of the more bizarre things here is that the Oxford and Cambridge colleges, which place so much emphasis on days of interviews, tests and other assessments over and above someone’s grades, are all of a sudden refusing places on the basis of an algorithm ahead of their own assessment.

I agree I find that extraordinary, they have declined thousands of the brightest students in the UK to hand pick the few thousand with that Je ne sais quoi and then bottled in on the basis of a one size fits all algorithm