The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

[dpedin]

I completely agree, but the athletics and other summer sports enthusiasts objected whenever I've suggested the move.

Problem is that rugby in u18s is predominately based around schools, and in particular private fee paying schools. Many clubs are attached to schools and use same pitches. So any shift to summer rugby will not happen in these schools where summer term is athletics and cricket based. In many of these schools rugby pitches get used for cricket and athletics in the summer term so are not available. these schools will not change and would continue as is, so we might lose a lot of the efforts been made to have a more integrated rugby calendar across all schools and clubs? There could be a separate/additional summer competition based around non-schools attached clubs but this would mean some kids playing rugby all year round which may or may not be a good idea? There are already some touch and 7s rugby comps played across the summer, perhaps that is the route to encourage more participation, particularly amongst girls, in the summer months.

Don't think too many clubs do use private school pitches unless that club is linked to the school in some way. I played schools and club rugby in Dundee and I can count on one hand the number of pitches that had both schools and clubs. Dundee being one. Also think most schools have separate cricket and rugby pitches too. And cricket is a much smaller sport in Scotland than rugby.

Good point about the calendar being disjointed if schools and clubs did switch. However, the schools already run rugby camps all summer anyway.

I think that rugby is more appealing if you can play a more expansive game and not throw a wet ball through freezing hands in miserable conditions. Bit of sun, less rain, dry ball. A club should try it I think.

I don't disagree about the benefits of summer rugby, I would support it. However I just think that getting the private schools to adapt will be too big a barrier to change - 100+ years history and all that. Watsons, Heriots, Edin Academy, Fettes, Loretto, Merchiston, Stew Mel are just the Edinburgh ones I can think who will be anti changing the calendar. Most of these own or manage any associated rugby clubs grounds ie Heriots, Stew Mel, Watsonians. They are also very sticky about allowing boys to play club, as opposed to school, rugby after S4 although if in the summer they might be less worried?

[I like neeps]

Problem is that rugby in u18s is predominately based around schools, and in particular private fee paying schools. Many clubs are attached to schools and use same pitches. So any shift to summer rugby will not happen in these schools where summer term is athletics and cricket based. In many of these schools rugby pitches get used for cricket and athletics in the summer term so are not available. these schools will not change and would continue as is, so we might lose a lot of the efforts been made to have a more integrated rugby calendar across all schools and clubs? There could be a separate/additional summer competition based around non-schools attached clubs but this would mean some kids playing rugby all year round which may or may not be a good idea? There are already some touch and 7s rugby comps played across the summer, perhaps that is the route to encourage more participation, particularly amongst girls, in the summer months.

Don't think too many clubs do use private school pitches unless that club is linked to the school in some way. I played schools and club rugby in Dundee and I can count on one hand the number of pitches that had both schools and clubs. Dundee being one. Also think most schools have separate cricket and rugby pitches too. And cricket is a much smaller sport in Scotland than rugby.

Good point about the calendar being disjointed if schools and clubs did switch. However, the schools already run rugby camps all summer anyway.

I think that rugby is more appealing if you can play a more expansive game and not throw a wet ball through freezing hands in miserable conditions. Bit of sun, less rain, dry ball. A club should try it I think.

I don't disagree about the benefits of summer rugby, I would support it. However I just think that getting the private schools to adapt will be too big a barrier to change - 100+ years history and all that. Watsons, Heriots, Edin Academy, Fettes, Loretto, Merchiston, Stew Mel are just the Edinburgh ones I can think who will be anti changing the calendar. Most of these own or manage any associated rugby clubs grounds ie Heriots, Stew Mel, Watsonians. They are also very sticky about allowing boys to play club, as opposed to school, rugby after S4 although if in the summer they might be less worried?

I think the club's and schools should have separate calendars. They rarely play each other anyway. Muir had a few games Vs the schools but they aren't in the calender. They already play different matchdays schools Saturdays and clubs Sundays.

[Big D]

Getting skint knees and spraining an ankle on the frozen, rutted back pitches at Netherdale was a right of passage for youngsters of my generation.

No doubt. When I was growing up you'd play sports on the frozen pitches with mates. I enjoyed a freezing cold schools game before getting a hot chocolate and warm pie post match.

But with participation numbers falling at younger age groups in most sports. Maybe thinking it might be more fun to chuck a ball around in nice weather is the way to go?

Couldn't agree more. It rarely gets warm enough here to have a massive impact on a game and imagine a Saturday with 2 or 3 consecutive games on the 1st XV pitch, BBQ going, kids running around etc.

Moving the club season to the summer comes with many issues that need to be thought about to avoid unintended consequences:
1. Asking kids to play all year round. With the school for half a year and clubs the other half. Could lead to some sort of split and schools may end up taking players out the club system.
2. Asking club volunteers to do so all year round. Many state schools rely on help from clubs to facilitate rugby. Club volunteers need a break at some point.
3. The league structure still sees teams having long journey's that eat into weekend time (Caley region teams especially). May not be an issue in the top 2 or 3 leagues but could be an issue further down the leagues.
4. Lots of players play multiple sports, are we really sure rugby would take priority in the summer? "Sorry lads, been offered a game at the Old Course last minute".
5. Summer holidays. Are we going to penalise teams for not fulfilling fixtures? Some senior teams struggle already.
6. Rugby isn't a sport you can pick up and take with you. Many summer sports don't rely on teams or have plenty courses/courts to choose from all over the country.
7. Doesn't take away some of the issues that really hurt adult participation such as work.

I still think getting more rugby in schools is the first step. There are fewer teachers than ever willing to coach rugby, understandably so given their workload and the time it takes to plan decent sessions.

[vball]

I was lucky enough to be at the Melrose 7s and what a fantastic event it is. Was on the bucket list and didn't disappoint at all.

As a country we have a rich rugby culture. Surely we can build the game further.

Clubs should only play summer rugby I think. When I played turning up to -3 frosted pitches or a big was no fun.

Getting skint knees and spraining an ankle on the frozen, rutted back pitches at Netherdale was a right of passage for youngsters of my generation.

I got those too .. and bloody noses, broken arm, etc ...........
When I was down at Netherdale for the Highland match a couple of weeks ago, I looked out over the back pitches. Nothing changed since I played on them ... and then stagger up the road to the house.

[I like neeps]

No doubt. When I was growing up you'd play sports on the frozen pitches with mates. I enjoyed a freezing cold schools game before getting a hot chocolate and warm pie post match.

But with participation numbers falling at younger age groups in most sports. Maybe thinking it might be more fun to chuck a ball around in nice weather is the way to go?

Couldn't agree more. It rarely gets warm enough here to have a massive impact on a game and imagine a Saturday with 2 or 3 consecutive games on the 1st XV pitch, BBQ going, kids running around etc.

Moving the club season to the summer comes with many issues that need to be thought about to avoid unintended consequences:
1. Asking kids to play all year round. With the school for half a year and clubs the other half. Could lead to some sort of split and schools may end up taking players out the club system.
2. Asking club volunteers to do so all year round. Many state schools rely on help from clubs to facilitate rugby. Club volunteers need a break at some point.
3. The league structure still sees teams having long journey's that eat into weekend time (Caley region teams especially). May not be an issue in the top 2 or 3 leagues but could be an issue further down the leagues.
4. Lots of players play multiple sports, are we really sure rugby would take priority in the summer? "Sorry lads, been offered a game at the Old Course last minute".
5. Summer holidays. Are we going to penalise teams for not fulfilling fixtures? Some senior teams struggle already.
6. Rugby isn't a sport you can pick up and take with you. Many summer sports don't rely on teams or have plenty courses/courts to choose from all over the country.
7. Doesn't take away some of the issues that really hurt adult participation such as work.

I still think getting more rugby in schools is the first step. There are fewer teachers than ever willing to coach rugby, understandably so given their workload and the time it takes to plan decent sessions.

Good points to pick up on some though:

1) how many play for both clubs and schools? Always seems to be one or other. You can't play two games per weekend after a certain age c13/14.
3) that's the issue summer or winter - maybe spending a summers day getting to Highland isn't hugely appealing - but winter isn't much better is it?
4) winter you compete with football. Scotland's most popular sport!
5) already struggle for numbers and fixtures bring fulfiled. I think this is a net positive. Your mate might not mind rugby so much if you aren't getting him out of bed at 8am on Sunday to freeze.

[Big D]

Couldn't agree more. It rarely gets warm enough here to have a massive impact on a game and imagine a Saturday with 2 or 3 consecutive games on the 1st XV pitch, BBQ going, kids running around etc.

Moving the club season to the summer comes with many issues that need to be thought about to avoid unintended consequences:
1. Asking kids to play all year round. With the school for half a year and clubs the other half. Could lead to some sort of split and schools may end up taking players out the club system.
2. Asking club volunteers to do so all year round. Many state schools rely on help from clubs to facilitate rugby. Club volunteers need a break at some point.
3. The league structure still sees teams having long journey's that eat into weekend time (Caley region teams especially). May not be an issue in the top 2 or 3 leagues but could be an issue further down the leagues.
4. Lots of players play multiple sports, are we really sure rugby would take priority in the summer? "Sorry lads, been offered a game at the Old Course last minute".
5. Summer holidays. Are we going to penalise teams for not fulfilling fixtures? Some senior teams struggle already.
6. Rugby isn't a sport you can pick up and take with you. Many summer sports don't rely on teams or have plenty courses/courts to choose from all over the country.
7. Doesn't take away some of the issues that really hurt adult participation such as work.

I still think getting more rugby in schools is the first step. There are fewer teachers than ever willing to coach rugby, understandably so given their workload and the time it takes to plan decent sessions.

Good points to pick up on some though:

1) how many play for both clubs and schools? Always seems to be one or other. You can't play two games per weekend after a certain age c13/14.
3) that's the issue summer or winter - maybe spending a summers day getting to Highland isn't hugely appealing - but winter isn't much better is it?
4) winter you compete with football. Scotland's most popular sport!
5) already struggle for numbers and fixtures bring fulfiled. I think this is a net positive. Your mate might not mind rugby so much if you aren't getting him out of bed at 8am on Sunday to freeze.

They were just thoughts, I am broadly in favour of changing the seasons in some form. I just don't think it is going to make as big a difference as people expect without some other major changes.

1) Should have had my point over two numbers as they aren't really linked. First part for state schools the other part for private schools.
1a) I am thinking about state schools where they don't have teams to play games at the weekend and rely on "festivals" run by the club to get any entry level access to playing rugby and follow up on the Sunday by attending club rugby. If clubs are successful and rugby gets reintegrated into the school and a full teams start then it might be an issue. Schools are still the best gateways to a club for players who weren't brought up by parents who were into it or watched on the TV.
1b) The second half of my point was thought of when watching the Scotland 18s highlights earlier (wing and 6 look decent). The U18 festival for example is now. Do we want the age grade national teams to be only accessible to private school players? For summer club rugby, the non private school guys would probably be in week 2 or 3 of their preseason now or have to find winter rugby to play. Would the private schools look to recruit more of the best players looking to make the age grade sides? Probably not, was just a thought for the elite end of youth rugby.

3) Travelling to Highland in the winter, or Caithness or Orkney the week before Christmas (twice - cheers SRU) is more appealing in the winter. Feels less like a waste of a day, or weekend in the Orkney case.

4) There are about 10 weeks where football isn't played by the time the season ends and pre season begins. Rugby will always be in competition with football no matter its place on the calendar. In the summer there are all the summer sports to contend with too.

5) There is the potential for more consistent disruption across the season. The issues of availability during the winter are still there in the summer and more people are potentially on holiday.

Many of the issues come down to accessibility and retention. Not as many kids are getting introduced to rugby playing at a young age out with a few clubs and retaining the players once they reach 16+. The elite systems can and should be improved, but until there are more players playing and staying in the game through their youth and adults continuing to play the game it is going to be an uphill struggle for the game.

[weegie01]

Nel cited.

I can't see any updates on the injuries, so this could a huge issue.

[SaintK]

Nel cited.

I can't see any updates on the injuries, so this could a huge issue.

What he do?

[weegie01]

Nel cited.

I can't see any updates on the injuries, so this could a huge issue.

What he do?

Contact with the head.

Edit
Allegedly.

[SaintK]

Nel cited.

I can't see any updates on the injuries, so this could a huge issue.

What he do?

Contact with the head.

Edit
Allegedly.

Thanks
There was an awful lot ofr that about over the weekend!!

[weegie01]

I was lucky enough to be at the Melrose 7s and what a fantastic event it is. Was on the bucket list and didn't disappoint at all.

As a country we have a rich rugby culture. Surely we can build the game further.

Clubs should only play summer rugby I think. When I played turning up to -3 frosted pitches or a big was no fun.

Melrose brought in a new team to run the 7s, the chap in overall charge used to run Hong Kong 7s. A few 'aye beens' had their noses put out of joint, but apparently it has had the desired effect and it is a slicker and better event.

They had great foundations to build on and did not throw the baby out with the bathwater, just took a good product and tweaked ad improved where needed.

[Big D]

I was lucky enough to be at the Melrose 7s and what a fantastic event it is. Was on the bucket list and didn't disappoint at all.

As a country we have a rich rugby culture. Surely we can build the game further.

Clubs should only play summer rugby I think. When I played turning up to -3 frosted pitches or a big was no fun.

Melrose brought in a new team to run the 7s, the chap in overall charge used to run Hong Kong 7s. A few 'aye beens' had their noses put out of joint, but apparently it has had the desired effect and it is a slicker and better event.

They had great foundations to build on and did not throw the baby out with the bathwater, just took a good product and tweaked ad improved where needed.

Was it true that Melrose had Southern Knights playing and the other sides with S6 affiliate weren't allowed to?

[weegie01]

I was lucky enough to be at the Melrose 7s and what a fantastic event it is. Was on the bucket list and didn't disappoint at all.

As a country we have a rich rugby culture. Surely we can build the game further.

Clubs should only play summer rugby I think. When I played turning up to -3 frosted pitches or a big was no fun.

Melrose brought in a new team to run the 7s, the chap in overall charge used to run Hong Kong 7s. A few 'aye beens' had their noses put out of joint, but apparently it has had the desired effect and it is a slicker and better event.

They had great foundations to build on and did not throw the baby out with the bathwater, just took a good product and tweaked ad improved where needed.

Was it true that Melrose had Southern Knights playing and the other sides with S6 affiliate weren't allowed to?

They had 2 players who were Southern Knights last year but are not any more.

[Big D]

Melrose brought in a new team to run the 7s, the chap in overall charge used to run Hong Kong 7s. A few 'aye beens' had their noses put out of joint, but apparently it has had the desired effect and it is a slicker and better event.

They had great foundations to build on and did not throw the baby out with the bathwater, just took a good product and tweaked ad improved where needed.

Was it true that Melrose had Southern Knights playing and the other sides with S6 affiliate weren't allowed to?

They had 2 players who were Southern Knights last year but are not any more.

Cheers. I saw some on TOL claiming they had 6 but Anderson and Weir were the only two I saw in the announced squads. Was wondering if more rocked up on the day.

[weegie01]

Was it true that Melrose had Southern Knights playing and the other sides with S6 affiliate weren't allowed to?

They had 2 players who were Southern Knights last year but are not any more.

Cheers. I saw some on TOL claiming they had 6 but Anderson and Weir were the only two I saw in the announced squads. Was wondering if more rocked up on the day.

I wasn't there but my son was part of the team running it, the above is from him. He also knows a lot of the players, and his business partner is a current Melrose player. So if there were shenanigans they'd know about it.

Edit

Spoke to my son again.

He can see how someone could come up with the figure of 6, but in his opinion that is really stretching it by including players he would never call Knights players. He named several players who played for Melrose, and are Melrose players, but have some link to Knights, e.g. sat on the bench for the Knights when they'd run out of players.

[Big D]

Cheers. Wouldn't be like folk commenting on TOL articles to have a moan about very little

[Big D]

Wife and kids are off to NI to visit family this weekend so might be a late decision to go to Edinburgh game. Can tickets be electronic or do I need a paper ticket? Been a while.

[mos_eisely_]

Wife and kids are off to NI to visit family this weekend so might be a late decision to go to Edinburgh game. Can tickets be electronic or do I need a paper ticket? Been a while.

They're fine with the pdf on your phone. Or you can get them as Apple Pay or Android Pay thingymajigs

[robmatic]

Nel cited.

I can't see any updates on the injuries, so this could a huge issue.

Three week suspension.

[Tichtheid]

Nel cited.

I can't see any updates on the injuries, so this could a huge issue.

Three week suspension.

If he goes on a course he gets another week reduction, so would be free to play against Ulster. As it is he misses Bath and Zebre, the Zebre is no big deal if we can find other props

Gibson-Park cleared to play btw

[Biffer]

Nel cited.

I can't see any updates on the injuries, so this could a huge issue.

Three week suspension.

If he goes on a course he gets another week reduction, so would be free to play against Ulster. As it is he misses Bath and Zebre, the Zebre is no big deal if we can find other props

Gibson-Park cleared to play btw

This is what he got a citing and three week suspension for

[robmatic]

Three week suspension.

If he goes on a course he gets another week reduction, so would be free to play against Ulster. As it is he misses Bath and Zebre, the Zebre is no big deal if we can find other props

Gibson-Park cleared to play btw

This is what he got a citing and three week suspension for

Fair enough, he was upright, but I don't know why there's no mitigation when the player on the receiving end has ducked their head down into contact.

[Slick]

The player he had contact with made a real meal of that

[Slick]

Wife and kids are off to NI to visit family this weekend so might be a late decision to go to Edinburgh game. Can tickets be electronic or do I need a paper ticket? Been a while.

I will probably head down on my own if it all works out if anyone fancied a pre match pint

[JM2K6]

If he goes on a course he gets another week reduction, so would be free to play against Ulster. As it is he misses Bath and Zebre, the Zebre is no big deal if we can find other props

Gibson-Park cleared to play btw

This is what he got a citing and three week suspension for

Fair enough, he was upright, but I don't know why there's no mitigation when the player on the receiving end has ducked their head down into contact.

Because he ducked his head down metres from contact, there was no sudden late dip. And he's still largely upright. Can't really see mitigation there - it's not a great replay but if he clocks him on the jaw with the shoulder then the ban seems fair.

[SaintK]

If he goes on a course he gets another week reduction, so would be free to play against Ulster. As it is he misses Bath and Zebre, the Zebre is no big deal if we can find other props

Gibson-Park cleared to play btw

This is what he got a citing and three week suspension for

Fair enough, he was upright, but I don't know why there's no mitigation when the player on the receiving end has ducked their head down into contact.

Doesn't look anywwhere near as bad as the Gibson-Parkes collision.

[weegie01]

Loads of tickets still available for the Edinburgh game tomorrow.

A lot of season ticket holders have obviously not bought tickets (so far) given the substantial number free in both stands.

[Biffer]

Loads of tickets still available for the Edinburgh game tomorrow.

A lot of season ticket holders have obviously not bought tickets (so far) given the substantial number free in both stands.

Why do I get the horrible feeling that a lot of ST holders will turn up not realising they needed to buy a ticket….

[mos_eisely_]

Decent team

[robmatic]

Decent team

The sub props could be an issue.

[Slick]

Loads of tickets still available for the Edinburgh game tomorrow.

A lot of season ticket holders have obviously not bought tickets (so far) given the substantial number free in both stands.

Must admit I’m in 2 minds about going or walking down the road to Heriots for the Super6 game

[Biffer]

Loads of tickets still available for the Edinburgh game tomorrow.

A lot of season ticket holders have obviously not bought tickets (so far) given the substantial number free in both stands.

Must admit I’m in 2 minds about going or walking down the road to Heriots for the Super6 game

Heriots @ 4.30, Edinburgh @ 8

Do both

[KingBlairhorn]

I'm a (very small) bit concerned how often Muncaster is going out at 6. We have a potentially generational talent (IMO) in a real problem position for the national team and we are playing him out of position in his formative years. I know the backrow positions are relatively interchangable these days, particularly 6 and 8, but there are definitely still unique elements to each role to my eye.

[Slick]

Loads of tickets still available for the Edinburgh game tomorrow.

A lot of season ticket holders have obviously not bought tickets (so far) given the substantial number free in both stands.

Must admit I’m in 2 minds about going or walking down the road to Heriots for the Super6 game

Heriots @ 4.30, Edinburgh @ 8

Do both

Working on that…

[robmatic]

I'm a (very small) bit concerned how often Muncaster is going out at 6. We have a potentially generational talent (IMO) in a real problem position for the national team and we are playing him out of position in his formative years. I know the backrow positions are relatively interchangable these days, particularly 6 and 8, but there are definitely still unique elements to each role to my eye.

It's only his 10th appearance, I think it's more important at this stage of his career that he's getting on the pitch.

It wasn't that long ago that Edinburgh coaches were getting pelters for never playing Bradbury at 8 - now they are wrong to play him there!

[Tichtheid]

With our first two tight heads missing I think it's reasonable to pick the experienced guy at 8, we could struggle a little on our own ball.

OTOH, the numbers on the jerseys haven't meant too much in terms of who packs down at 8, when Haining and Bradbury have played together this season Bradbury played at 8 with Haining at 6 on opposition ball and the reverse on our ball.
Muncaster has often being scrummaging in the 8 position no matter what jersey he's been wearing.

The other part of the modern 8 is running back kickoffs, I don't think there is a lot between them but perhaps Bradbury is still a wee bit stronger at the moment.

[KingBlairhorn]

I'm a (very small) bit concerned how often Muncaster is going out at 6. We have a potentially generational talent (IMO) in a real problem position for the national team and we are playing him out of position in his formative years. I know the backrow positions are relatively interchangable these days, particularly 6 and 8, but there are definitely still unique elements to each role to my eye.

It's only his 10th appearance, I think it's more important at this stage of his career that he's getting on the pitch.

It wasn't that long ago that Edinburgh coaches were getting pelters for never playing Bradbury at 8 - now they are wrong to play him there!

Well, that kind of reinforces my point. Bradbury with the gifts he has should be a top international 8, but he isn’t. He is also now leaving the club. Now is the chance to develop Muncaster, not Bradbury.

Take the point on only 10 games and tightheid’s points on 6/8 interchangeability though. Good to know he has been packing down at 8, I hadn’t spotted that to be honest.

[KingBlairhorn]

First impressions of the sprint super6, defences have improved. Very physical too.

[Dogbert]

And From the West Coast...

Good ,solid , if not quite spectacular win for Glasgow over a pretty limited Newcastle side

The result was never in doubt , and a good few Glasgow tries went a begging , though to be fair Newcastle had a decent defence.

Steyn had a good game with a couple of tries , and had the Newcastle defence in all sorts of trouble all night

For Newcastle ,McGuigan may be the Premiership's top try scorer but his lineout was awful - but a fair bit was down to good Glasgow Pressure

Hope Cummings is OK , went off hobbling a bit

Onwards & Upwards

[FalconJock]

And From the West Coast...

Good ,solid , if not quite spectacular win for Glasgow over a pretty limited Newcastle side

The result was never in doubt , and a good few Glasgow tries went a begging , though to be fair Newcastle had a decent defence.

Steyn had a good game with a couple of tries , and had the Newcastle defence in all sorts of trouble all night

For Newcastle ,McGuigan may be the Premiership's top try scorer but his lineout was awful - but a fair bit was down to good Glasgow Pressure

Hope Cummings is OK , went off hobbling a bit

Onwards & Upwards

Can't get the stats on how many lineouts he's thrown into but McGuigan has thrown 199 times where Falcons have won the lineout and those stats are 2nd highest in the league. I would definately say that the poor darts this week were due to really good lineout pressure from Glasgow who I imagine have a good lineout steal percentage (think Ireland v Scotland where we are starved of a decent lineout platform at key points in the red zone). Our defense hasn't been to bad this season but it still gets stressed a bit too easy and gives away stupid penalties which brings on more pressure especially against well drilled teams ie most of the current GP top 6.

There is a reason that Glasgow are perenially in the Champions cup and Newcastle aren't some of it may be down to how the clubs/plkayers are funded, some probably down to better coaching setups and a set of tactics that suit the players and although I didnt expect us to win last night I thought Glasgow would win comfortably and it sounds like they did.

So good luck in the next round and I hope Edinburgh absolutely bury the Weegies in the 1872 so I can have some form of shallow victory being an old man originally from Edinburgh