Stop voting for fucking Tories

[GogLais]

It’s funny really. The old Conservative line used to be that they wanted to increase the size of the national cake whereas Labour was more bothered about changing the size of the slices. Seems to be the other way round now with the intent that whoever has the biggest slice gets an even bigger one.

[robmatic]

Outline the alternative…Labour? They can’t even decide what a woman is

Come on now, Corbyn and his pals were a great alternative...

So to be clear, your response to the idea that Labour isn't an alternative because of some bullshit about trans rights is... that the previous Labour lot who've since been marginalised or removed from the party are a bunch of wankers?

That's quality good faith argument right there

Yes, it still remains a mystery why the current Tory government, who are objectively terrible on a broad array of measures, won the last two elections.

[JM2K6]

Come on now, Corbyn and his pals were a great alternative...

So to be clear, your response to the idea that Labour isn't an alternative because of some bullshit about trans rights is... that the previous Labour lot who've since been marginalised or removed from the party are a bunch of wankers?

That's quality good faith argument right there

Yes, it still remains a mystery why the current Tory government, who are objectively terrible on a broad array of measures, won the last two elections.

It's not a mystery at all. However, the previous elections aren't what we're talking about, are they.

[Slick]

It's missing the point in worrying fashion to label it a so-called culture war, on both sides there are those who feel the position of those against them is simply to deny they even exist, that's not a vague concern for either side of the debate. That it gets glossed over as a so-called even speaks to the misogyny many will cite

I say "so-called culture wars" because the issues directly affect only a relatively small percentage of the population yet it gets exploited for political gain by the Right, so becoming a seeming deluge of "wokeism", "political correctness" and lefty liberal lawyers and judges, or "traitors" if you prefer.

The trans issues are very complicated and especially when it comes to the rights feminists have won over the last four or five decades, the rights conservatives resisted, in the main.
The sharp end of the issues such as the use of changing rooms become the be all and end all of the discussion, the splash headline, but it's only part of the topic, but it's far easier to use lazy tropes and facile statements than engage in the debate.

Tories know this, Johnson in particular is good at spotting a dividing line, it's easy, it gets people's backs up and it means they don't have to deal with lying to parliament or billions of pounds pissed away during a pandemic or why they got rid of protective equipment before the outbreak, or why did the PM take so long to attend the COBRA meetings, questions about Test and Trace, I could go on.

Trans issues are probably at the same place gay issues were 40/50 or so years ago, I don't pretend to have answers but I'm aware of some of the questions from many viewpoints.

At the start of this I said the culture wars only affect a relatively small percentage of the population, I'll go back on that and say we all benefit when another group wins its right to become treated as equals.

Precisely. Trans people have been around for a very long time and they're only a hot topic now because the populist government and some allies in the press, plus some high profile individuals, have made it a big deal. The British public is still hugely supportive of trans rights - including women, in fact a great percentage of women than men agree that trans women are women - but you wouldn't know it given the shit-stirring by a small number of people and the output of our media, who make it seem like there's overwhelming opposition.

It's a niche issue that has been exploited to the hilt for political gain.

What about people calling out TERFS at every opportunity, or shutting down debate at universities, or hounding people with a different view on social media? Are they also part of the problem and exploiting the issue for gain?

[JM2K6]

What about people calling out TERFS at every opportunity, or shutting down debate at universities, or hounding people with a different view on social media? Are they also part of the problem and exploiting the issue for gain?

What gain is that...?

Calling TERFs TERFs isn't really anything. I mean, the TERFs themselves invented the term, it's what they called themselves. OK, so they've since changed it to the entirely backwards "gender critical", but hey. Does it get applied to people who don't deserve it? No doubt. How much does that matter? Not sure. I think it probably matters less than whipping up fear and hatred of trans people, who are already incredibly vulnerable and who regularly suffer real world consequences as a result of this stuff.

The whole university thing is frequently massively overblown. Students are perfectly entitled to express an opinion on things, and it's strange that this gets framed as "shutting down debate". Half of the shit that gets reported is things like the Kathleen Stock affair, where an academic with fairly extremist views on trans people pissed off the students enough that they protested. The university refused to do anything about it and defended her while criticising the students, but she resigned anyway and that whole affair has been spun as her being driven out rather than her leaving by her own accord. She's made herself a nice career out of this.

You'd expect homophobes or racists to get pushback in the same way. That's basically how society works. It's not like there's no shortage of "debate" on trans people - you can't fucking move for it at the moment. And these people get incredible amounts of airtime to defend themselves - major TV exposes, articles in major UK publications, etc etc - with very little coverage of the "other side". Another example: Jo Phoenix, who had a talk cancelled and ended up doing pretty much the same thing as Stock, was plastered all over pretty much every media outlet with the softest coverage you could get. It's almost impossible to find anything that doesn't just giver her a platform or hold her up as a hero. There's no actual effort to discover what people were pissed off about, or what she was actually accused of and why it matters. It only ever goes one way.

re: social media, I agree, it's an incredibly partisan place. I'm fairly sure you've told me in the past that social media is a tiny thing with no real bearing on the real world, but given that I don't agree with that perspective I'm not going to argue that there aren't plenty of unpleasant people on there attacking others. But that's what happens when you get high profile people and the media attacking minorities. It pisses people off on both sides. That's how the culture war plays out - it's the intended effect.

[robmatic]

The whole university thing is frequently massively overblown. Students are perfectly entitled to express an opinion on things, and it's strange that this gets framed as "shutting down debate". Half of the shit that gets reported is things like the Kathleen Stock affair, where an academic with fairly extremist views on trans people pissed off the students enough that they protested. The university refused to do anything about it and defended her while criticising the students, but she resigned anyway and that whole affair has been spun as her being driven out rather than her leaving by her own accord. She's made herself a nice career out of this.

How extremist is Kathleen Stock really, when only 40% of the UK population agree that 'a trans woman is a woman' and only 16% are in favour of self ID?

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/ar ... der-rights

[Slick]

OK, so it’s just one “side” then..

[JM2K6]

OK, so it’s just one “side” then..

It's overwhelmingly one-sided, honestly.

Would genuinely love to debate this more but I'm not going to spend my easter weekend camped on here!

[Slick]

OK, so it’s just one “side” then..

It's overwhelmingly one-sided, honestly.

Would genuinely love to debate this more but I'm not going to spend my easter weekend camped on here!

If you think it’s bad down there you should see the state of it up here!

I’m sure it will all get to the right place in the end, I just feel sorry for the poor fuckers caught in the middle, the vast majority of whom haven’t asked for any of it and just want to get on with life.

[petej]

I say "so-called culture wars" because the issues directly affect only a relatively small percentage of the population yet it gets exploited for political gain by the Right, so becoming a seeming deluge of "wokeism", "political correctness" and lefty liberal lawyers and judges, or "traitors" if you prefer.

The trans issues are very complicated and especially when it comes to the rights feminists have won over the last four or five decades, the rights conservatives resisted, in the main.
The sharp end of the issues such as the use of changing rooms become the be all and end all of the discussion, the splash headline, but it's only part of the topic, but it's far easier to use lazy tropes and facile statements than engage in the debate.

Tories know this, Johnson in particular is good at spotting a dividing line, it's easy, it gets people's backs up and it means they don't have to deal with lying to parliament or billions of pounds pissed away during a pandemic or why they got rid of protective equipment before the outbreak, or why did the PM take so long to attend the COBRA meetings, questions about Test and Trace, I could go on.

Trans issues are probably at the same place gay issues were 40/50 or so years ago, I don't pretend to have answers but I'm aware of some of the questions from many viewpoints.

At the start of this I said the culture wars only affect a relatively small percentage of the population, I'll go back on that and say we all benefit when another group wins its right to become treated as equals.

Precisely. Trans people have been around for a very long time and they're only a hot topic now because the populist government and some allies in the press, plus some high profile individuals, have made it a big deal. The British public is still hugely supportive of trans rights - including women, in fact a great percentage of women than men agree that trans women are women - but you wouldn't know it given the shit-stirring by a small number of people and the output of our media, who make it seem like there's overwhelming opposition.

It's a niche issue that has been exploited to the hilt for political gain.

This is one of those that checks people's ability to filter between bullshit, internet and reality. Can you tell the difference between genuine issues like war in Ukraine, cost of living, housing, climate change, COVID and niche issues pushed as distractions by some old rich twats in their "newspapers"? As much as I enjoy the telegraph covering a protest by 5 people against a speaker at a university and the speech went ahead it is a bit desperate.

EDIT: the problem with people who are unable to filter is that they are also vulnerable to shit pushed out on social media by hostile powers like china and Russia. Very well covered in that report on disinformation by the UK security services that was held back.

[Openside]

So to be clear, your response to the idea that Labour isn't an alternative because of some bullshit about trans rights is... that the previous Labour lot who've since been marginalised or removed from the party are a bunch of wankers?

That's quality good faith argument right there

Yes, it still remains a mystery why the current Tory government, who are objectively terrible on a broad array of measures, won the last two elections.

It's not a mystery at all. However, the previous elections aren't what we're talking about, are they.

I think it will probably be the same next time too…

[Rhubarb & Custard]

The Tory game plan, when you've been caught with your pants down, ie your leader and chancellor have broken the law and also the ministerial code by lying to parliament, go straight to the so-called "Culture Wars"

It's missing the point in worrying fashion to label it a so-called culture war, on both sides there are those who feel the position of those against them is simply to deny they even exist, that's not a vague concern for either side of the debate. That it gets glossed over as a so-called even speaks to the misogyny many will cite

I say "so-called culture wars" because the issues directly affect only a relatively small percentage of the population yet it gets exploited for political gain by the Right, so becoming a seeming deluge of "wokeism", "political correctness" and lefty liberal lawyers and judges, or "traitors" if you prefer.

The trans issues are very complicated and especially when it comes to the rights feminists have won over the last four or five decades, the rights conservatives resisted, in the main.
The sharp end of the issues such as the use of changing rooms become the be all and end all of the discussion, the splash headline, but it's only part of the topic, but it's far easier to use lazy tropes and facile statements than engage in the debate.

Tories know this, Johnson in particular is good at spotting a dividing line, it's easy, it gets people's backs up and it means they don't have to deal with lying to parliament or billions of pounds pissed away during a pandemic or why they got rid of protective equipment before the outbreak, or why did the PM take so long to attend the COBRA meetings, questions about Test and Trace, I could go on.

Trans issues are probably at the same place gay issues were 40/50 or so years ago, I don't pretend to have answers but I'm aware of some of the questions from many viewpoints.

At the start of this I said the culture wars only affect a relatively small percentage of the population, I'll go back on that and say we all benefit when another group wins its right to become treated as equals.

It's hardly everyone who's going to take a strong stance on this. Myself that I know of (and granted people mayn't have disclosed for any number of reasons) I've never even met a trans person and as things stand I'l be voting Labour the first time ever. But the Lib Dems (my party) and Labour are getting into a pickle over this, and a lot of people they need the votes of are massively pissed off, they're more likely to be paid less, more likely to be attacked, raped and murdered and they're often 2nd in line behind the men when systems are put in place, the issue isn't trans rights because there just aren't votes to be found there, the issue is women's rights. And when for a lot of people, and again exactly the people you need votes from, think your starting point is they don't even exist they're barely it at all going to hear the rest of what you have to say no matter how compassionate. Yes it's pathetic the Tories will use the issue, but sodding hell it'll prove an easy one to use, Chris Grayling could successfully plan to use the issue, and they don't need to do a great job given how our system works (or doesn't work) to keep in power

We spat out some more modelling this last week and the level of anger from what you'd possibly call moderates, people who'd be willing to vote Tory, Labour, Lib Dem with even someone like Yvette Copper (and even though hardly a Labour supporter I've been a long time Copper fan other than her run at party leadership so it surprised me) is striking. And it should be worrying to party strategists if even Cooper is generating such dislike because if the issue doesn't rile you mayn't agree with Cooper but she likely comes across as kind and considered. Yes that's not going to come across to everyone, most voters could barely tell you who Cooper is, but you only need a sense of right/wrong to exist and specifically to exist in certain blocks of voters

If Labour can find a position that reflects something more of the recent Hadley Freeman article in the Guardian they'll have a much easier time of this. The Lib Dems look beyond hope for now because they're a group so much in favour of democracy they've refused to even debate the issue in the name of being virtuous, although I'm not giving up my party membership just yet, one lives in hope.

And it's very possible someone like Layla Moran, someone who back when she was the spokesperson on education I was starting to think was a lock for future party leader, is going in time to be able to say she had the right of it from the start (or now). I'm merely somewhat concerned at how many elections might pass by between now and then, because you can tell the voters what to vote for, it's much harder to tell them what they should care about.

[C69]

What are TERFs?

And why should I give a fuck?

[robmatic]

I spent my 20s hanging out in gay bars and clubs, even travelled down to London from Scotland for Pride, and I had a lesbian best man when I eventually got married (to a Muslim immigrant woman), and I am apparently too socially conservative for Labour.

[Biffer]

What are TERFs?

And why should I give a fuck?

Trans exclusionary radical feminists. Hard line feminists who don’t believe trans women should be treated as women.

[C69]

What are TERFs?

And why should I give a fuck?

Trans exclusionary radical feminists. Hard line feminists who don’t believe trans women should be treated as women.

Sorry but a such fringe shit should remain just that.
Its just right wing fetishists who want this in the public domain

[SaintK]

What are TERFs?

And why should I give a fuck?

Trans exclusionary radical feminists. Hard line feminists who don’t believe trans women should be treated as women.

Read this yeaterday. Haters going to hate!
https://unherd.com/2022/04/jk-rowling ... ecrets/

[robmatic]

What are TERFs?

And why should I give a fuck?

Trans exclusionary radical feminists. Hard line feminists who don’t believe trans women should be treated as women.

Approximately 90% of men won't date a trans woman but it's the feminists who are hardline for not treating trans women as women.

[C69]

What are TERFs?

And why should I give a fuck?

Trans exclusionary radical feminists. Hard line feminists who don’t believe trans women should be treated as women.

Approximately 90% of men won't date a trans woman but it's the feminists who are hardline for not treating trans women as women.

So is a trans individual pre or post op or both?

[Rinkals]

What are TERFs?

And why should I give a fuck?

Trans exclusionary radical feminists. Hard line feminists who don’t believe trans women should be treated as women.

Approximately 90% of men won't date a trans woman but it's the feminists who are hardline for not treating trans women as women.

Quite.

I honestly don't care what people call themselves, what sex they identify as or whether they mutilate themselves in pursuit of their sexual identity, but I have a certain amount of sympathy with female athletes asked to compete against such an individual.

[Openside]

Trans exclusionary radical feminists. Hard line feminists who don’t believe trans women should be treated as women.

Approximately 90% of men won't date a trans woman but it's the feminists who are hardline for not treating trans women as women.

Quite.

I honestly don't care what people call themselves, what sex they identify as or whether they mutilate themselves in pursuit of their sexual identity, but I have a certain amount of sympathy with female athletes asked to compete against such an individual.

This - apparently it’s not just men, the lesbians are being accused of being transphobic because they done want to date Trans women. Frankly who you want to bump uglies with is no one’s business but your own.

[PCPhil]

In my career in industrial automation I have known two people who changed from male to female and both went back to work at the same company. I thought, that takes balls!







Seriously there was no issue. They were good at their job and I respected them.

[Insane_Homer]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/dish ... -hplmlxmmx

A Conservative MP lied under oath, behaved in an abusive, arrogant and aggressive way, and was so dishonest that his claims about a multimillion-pound family dispute could not be taken at face value, a high court judge has ruled.

Andrew Bridgen, MP for North West Leicestershire, has spent years taking legal action against his family’s £27 million potato and vegetable business, which he claims forced him out and treated him unfairly.

[Muttonbird]

What are TERFs?

And why should I give a fuck?

Trans exclusionary radical feminists. Hard line feminists who don’t believe trans women should be treated as women.

Britain is known as TERF Island.

[petej]

What are TERFs?

And why should I give a fuck?

Trans exclusionary radical feminists. Hard line feminists who don’t believe trans women should be treated as women.

Britain is known as TERF Island.

Our media is silly. Outside of the UK in a tiny number of developed countries amongst a select group of people.

[FalseBayFC]

I spent my 20s hanging out in gay bars and clubs, even travelled down to London from Scotland for Pride, and I had a lesbian best man when I eventually got married (to a Muslim immigrant woman), and I am apparently too socially conservative for Labour.

LOL Your life sounds like a new Netflix series.

[C69]

I spent my 20s hanging out in gay bars and clubs, even travelled down to London from Scotland for Pride, and I had a lesbian best man when I eventually got married (to a Muslim immigrant woman), and I am apparently too socially conservative for Labour.

LOL Your life sounds like a new Netflix series.

Tbh I think he has just outed himself as Michael Fabricant

[Muttonbird]

Our media is silly. Outside of the UK in a tiny number of developed countries amongst a select group of people.

Well, to the people that are paying attention to gender warfare, which is gender activists and those interested politically, it's not a tiny number.

Britain is inherently Conservative. TERFs or, as they like to be known, Gender Critical Feminists, are also conservative in that they prefer the status quo. This is why right wing and socially conservative politicians the western world over are hitching their wagon to TERF and GCF movements.

The progressive left will have none of it.

[petej]

Our media is silly. Outside of the UK in a tiny number of developed countries amongst a select group of people.

Well, to the people that are paying attention to gender warfare, which is gender activists and those interested politically, it's not a tiny number.

Britain is inherently Conservative. TERFs or, as they like to be known, Gender Critical Feminists, are also conservative in that they prefer the status quo. This is why right wing and socially conservative politicians the western world over are hitching their wagon to TERF and GCF movements.

The progressive left will have none of it.

It is a tiny number compared to the size of the electorate which is why they are pushing it so much in friendly outlet's without a huge amount of success.

[robmatic]

I spent my 20s hanging out in gay bars and clubs, even travelled down to London from Scotland for Pride, and I had a lesbian best man when I eventually got married (to a Muslim immigrant woman), and I am apparently too socially conservative for Labour.

LOL Your life sounds like a new Netflix series.

Tbh I think he has just outed himself as Michael Fabricant

Excuse me, I'm proudly bald.

[C69]

LOL Your life sounds like a new Netflix series.

Tbh I think he has just outed himself as Michael Fabricant

Excuse me, I'm proudly bald.

So is Fabricant.
Well apart from being proud

[tabascoboy]

Do hope the Tories are proud of their support from previously fringe groups

[fishfoodie]

Fuck me.

A major investigation into the use of Israeli spyware Pegasus by governments around the globe has thrown up the fact that an official working at 10 Downing Street under Prime Minister Boris Johnson was among those whose phone was compromised. Reporting in The New Yorker, journalist Ronan Farrow says the spyware was used to infect a device connected to the No. 10 network on July 7, 2020. The infiltration was thought to have been ordered by the government of the United Arab Emirates, although British cybersecurity officers, who checked and cleared Johnson’s cellphone, never found out whose device it was. “When we found the No. 10 case, my jaw dropped,” said John Scott-Railton, a senior researcher at the Toronto-based Citizen Lab, which has been tracking the use of Pegasus. The Israeli firm NSO has since blocked use of the software against U.S. or U.K. numbers, but Farrow’s report makes clear that it is still being used to target activists and officials around the world.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/uae-used- ... nan-farrow

[fishfoodie]

There's all kinds of good news in the latest poll by the Mail ...... for Labour



1% give a damn about Trans rights, culture war shite, but 69% are shitting themselves about the cost of living.

The only, "Bright Spot", for the blonde cunt, is that none of his obvious successors can manage more than 11%, because the Tory Government is composed entirely of cretins, & nobodies. It's just as well they're so well led going into the next GE, because otherwise they might be fucked for a Generation ....

Britain’s economy is at growing risk of falling into a summer recession amid the biggest squeeze on household incomes since the mid 1950s, as soaring inflation curtails consumer spending power, forecasters have said.

Economists said the double blow from slowing post-lockdown growth and rising living costs after Russia’s invasion of Ukraine could result in a fall in gross domestic product (GDP) for two consecutive quarters, which is the definition of a recession.

After a weaker-than-expected growth performance in February, and with the inflation rate reaching the highest levels since 1992 last month, City forecasters said UK GDP was now on track to grow by about 1% in the first quarter of 2022 before slipping into reverse this summer.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... ay-experts

I know the argument that it might be a good time to not be in Government; but that has to be set against the fact that if Labour get in with the SNP & Lib Dems supporting them, then the price for power will probably be PR, & this time around it could be the Tories against every other Party; & that will be a massive change in the Political system.

[Jockaline]

What are TERFs?

And why should I give a fuck?

Trans exclusionary radical feminists. Hard line feminists who don’t believe trans women should be treated as women.

Approximately 90% of men won't date a trans woman but it's the feminists who are hardline for not treating trans women as women.

Well said, the idea that the majority don't believe there is a difference between a trans women and a women (as historically identified i.e. by biology) is just wrong. It may not come out in surveys as public and private option differs, particularly when those that express an option that isn't exactly in line with Stonewalls vision get an enormous amount of TERF hate thrown in their direction. Nobody wishes harm to the Trans community, but there needs to be compromise, as there are legitimate concerns. Biological men competing in professional sports against biologicals women for one, the other is respect for biologicals women to retain their safe spaces, particularly when it's a free for all i.e. no proven commitment for the man to have lived as a women for any length of time.

Labour needs to avoid topic like the plague, otherwise it will lose them the next general election, an election they need to win, otherwise they are letting down the key reason for them being - to get a fair deal for the working classes. That's what they need to focus on 100% not fringe issues.

[Jockaline]

Trans exclusionary radical feminists. Hard line feminists who don’t believe trans women should be treated as women.

Approximately 90% of men won't date a trans woman but it's the feminists who are hardline for not treating trans women as women.

Well said, the idea that the majority don't believe there is a difference between a trans women and a women (as historically identified i.e. by biology) is just wrong. It may not come out in surveys as public and private opinion differs, particularly when those that express an opinion that isn't exactly in line with Stonewalls vision get an enormous amount of TERF hate thrown in their direction. Nobody wishes harm to the Trans community, but there needs to be compromise, as there are legitimate concerns. Biological men competing in professional sports against biologicals women for one, the other is respect for biologicals women to retain their safe spaces, particularly when it's a free for all i.e. no proven commitment for the man to have lived as a women for any length of time.

Labour needs to avoid topic like the plague, otherwise it will lose them the next general election, an election they need to win, otherwise they are letting down the key reason for them being - to get a fair deal for the working classes. That's what they need to focus on 100% not fringe issues.

[Random1]

Approximately 90% of men won't date a trans woman but it's the feminists who are hardline for not treating trans women as women.

Well said, the idea that the majority don't believe there is a difference between a trans women and a women (as historically identified i.e. by biology) is just wrong. It may not come out in surveys as public and private opinion differs, particularly when those that express an opinion that isn't exactly in line with Stonewalls vision get an enormous amount of TERF hate thrown in their direction. Nobody wishes harm to the Trans community, but there needs to be compromise, as there are legitimate concerns. Biological men competing in professional sports against biologicals women for one, the other is respect for biologicals women to retain their safe spaces, particularly when it's a free for all i.e. no proven commitment for the man to have lived as a women for any length of time.

Labour needs to avoid topic like the plague, otherwise it will lose them the next general election, an election they need to win, otherwise they are letting down the key reason for them being - to get a fair deal for the working classes. That's what they need to focus on 100% not fringe issues.

There feels like something else at play too and that’s language itself. Let’s face it, nuance and sophistication of language and communication is something that humans are pretty good at, and it’s critical to our species’ success.

Part of that is having a common understanding of what words mean, as communication is just about getting people to understand what’s in your own head.

So when a movement comes along, wants to re-define two of a language’s most universally understood words (woman, and/or Man), without actually offering an alternative formal definition, then the rest of society surely has a right to refuse?

[Insane_Homer]

[Margin__Walker]

Enjoyed this. Imagine having to go out to bat for Boris and lose every shred of dignity time and time again.

[GogLais]

Trans exclusionary radical feminists. Hard line feminists who don’t believe trans women should be treated as women.

Approximately 90% of men won't date a trans woman but it's the feminists who are hardline for not treating trans women as women.

Nobody wishes harm to the Trans community, but there needs to be compromise, as there are legitimate concerns. Biological men competing in professional sports against biologicals women for one, the other is respect for biologicals women to retain their safe spaces, particularly when it's a free for all i.e. no proven commitment for the man to have lived as a women for any length of time.

Labour needs to avoid topic like the plague, otherwise it will lose them the next general election, an election they need to win, otherwise they are letting down the key reason for them being - to get a fair deal for the working classes. That's what they need to focus on 100% not fringe issues.

Agreed. There is an I suspect fairly small number of people who either at birth or later don’t fit conveniently into either gender. They should have all the care and consideration they need. However - dare I say it - I think it’s become a Cause with a capital C now. Celebs that would have quite rightly supported racial or gay equality now need something different to attach themselves to. Sorry if that seems a bit cynical.