The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

[westport]

Which Tests? I cancelled Sky Sports a while back.

RG= Argie = Argentina.

Summer Tour this year was confirmed today - 3 tests 2/9/16 July

Seriously, FFS. When I cancelled Sky Sports it was because I hardly ever watched it and I was sick of funding the EPL. Since then, the Lions tour, all of the Scotland football games and now the Scotland tour have all been o Sky.

And summer games will be on Sky for next few years

[clydecloggie]

With the URC announcing the final will be at the home of the highest ranked team at the end of the season, Glasgow have even more incentive to put some points on the board over the next few games.

Even though they’ve sent a B squad to SA, Leinster will likely finish top. It’s not out of the bounds of possibility that they don’t make the final though, so Glasgow really want to finish above ulster and Munster.

I think it's not overly likely that they will win both games in SA. But one win and then beating the Burghers should see them finish top-4 - you're then hoping for the Saffer teams and Edinburgh to do a number on the Irish big-3 in the quarters before Glasgow can entertain thoughts of home (semi-)finals.

And in all honesty, I can see the Stormers or Sharks with all the Springboks available getting a result in Ireland.

But it's odds on that the final is in Dublin and Leinster take the win.

[KingBlairhorn]

With the URC announcing the final will be at the home of the highest ranked team at the end of the season, Glasgow have even more incentive to put some points on the board over the next few games.

Even though they’ve sent a B squad to SA, Leinster will likely finish top. It’s not out of the bounds of possibility that they don’t make the final though, so Glasgow really want to finish above ulster and Munster.

I think it's not overly likely that they will win both games in SA. But one win and then beating the Burghers should see them finish top-4 - you're then hoping for the Saffer teams and Edinburgh to do a number on the Irish big-3 in the quarters before Glasgow can entertain thoughts of home (semi-)finals.

And in all honesty, I can see the Stormers or Sharks with all the Springboks available getting a result in Ireland.

But it's odds on that the final is in Dublin and Leinster take the win.

Totally agree. It was more a comment on the potential for deprioritising the league / resting players / motivation etc. that an actual expectation that it is likely.

As an aside, I really hate the URC tendency (and they have done this many times now) to make announcements like this mid-season. It should be clear and unambiguous what the arrangements are before anyone kicks a ball, regardless of whether anyone feels it makes a difference to the final table or not.

As a second aside, there have now been 11 Prox/URC finals of which 9 have been in Ireland and two in Scotland. That is very poor. Leinster have played and won 5 finals in Dublin at either the RDS or Aviva (both of which I would consider to be home venues for them) and played and lost in another two there. 7 finals from a total of 11 at home for a single team is very very poor from the organisers, regardless of the rules. They have not lost a final in Dublin since 2012. They have been in 8 finals since that loss, 5 at home. They have played 2 finals where the other team was at home (Thomond Park in 2011 and Glasgow in 2019) and won one lost one. All this to say that a) finals should really be at a neutral venue and b) Leinster should play fewer finals at home - it gives them an unfair advantage when they are already easily the best team in the competition.

[Slick]

With the URC announcing the final will be at the home of the highest ranked team at the end of the season, Glasgow have even more incentive to put some points on the board over the next few games.

Even though they’ve sent a B squad to SA, Leinster will likely finish top. It’s not out of the bounds of possibility that they don’t make the final though, so Glasgow really want to finish above ulster and Munster.

I think it's not overly likely that they will win both games in SA. But one win and then beating the Burghers should see them finish top-4 - you're then hoping for the Saffer teams and Edinburgh to do a number on the Irish big-3 in the quarters before Glasgow can entertain thoughts of home (semi-)finals.

And in all honesty, I can see the Stormers or Sharks with all the Springboks available getting a result in Ireland.

But it's odds on that the final is in Dublin and Leinster take the win.

Totally agree. It was more a comment on the potential for deprioritising the league / resting players / motivation etc. that an actual expectation that it is likely.

As an aside, I really hate the URC tendency (and they have done this many times now) to make announcements like this mid-season. It should be clear and unambiguous what the arrangements are before anyone kicks a ball, regardless of whether anyone feels it makes a difference to the final table or not.

As a second aside, there have now been 11 Prox/URC finals of which 9 have been in Ireland and two in Scotland. That is very poor. Leinster have played and won 5 finals in Dublin at either the RDS or Aviva (both of which I would consider to be home venues for them) and played and lost in another two there. 7 finals from a total of 11 at home for a single team is very very poor from the organisers, regardless of the rules. They have not lost a final in Dublin since 2012. They have been in 8 finals since that loss, 5 at home. They have played 2 finals where the other team was at home (Thomond Park in 2011 and Glasgow in 2019) and won one lost one. All this to say that a) finals should really be at a neutral venue and b) Leinster should play fewer finals at home - it gives them an unfair advantage when they are already easily the best team in the competition.

I didn't realise all that, totally ridiculous and micky mouse

[GrahamWa]

The Welsh have only bid once, for the covid cancelled year at the Cardiff City Stadium. The Principality has a recurring booking for monster trucks around finals time so the pitch is removed for that. No one else is bidding, but agree its a bit shit.

[KingBlairhorn]

Does anyone know, does Danny Wilson have another year on his contract?

[Slick]

I think Glasgow should be looking to get Hastings back as a matter of urgency

[KingBlairhorn]

I think Glasgow should be looking to get Hastings back as a matter of urgency

Doubt they could.

[Slick]

I think Glasgow should be looking to get Hastings back as a matter of urgency

Doubt they could.

Hmm, I’ve heard he has had a really tough time down there and wants to come back to Scotland

[KingBlairhorn]

I think Glasgow should be looking to get Hastings back as a matter of urgency

Doubt they could.

Hmm, I’ve heard he has had a really tough time down there and wants to come back to Scotland

I hadn’t heard that. If he is keen then definitely. I always had the impression he was desperate to get back down. I agree with your point though, if they can get him they should.

Bin Miotti. A three of Hastings, Thompson, Weir is great.

[I like neeps]

Not sure about Owsley, I just don't think he has the basic skills. That's a try if you can catch and pass.

[I like neeps]

Atalifo getting melted at scrum time.

[Slick]

Not sure about Owsley, I just don't think he has the basic skills. That's a try if you can catch and pass.

Your point kind of made there on that try. Although Kinghorn is comically bad in defence as well

[KingBlairhorn]

Not sure about Owsley, I just don't think he has the basic skills. That's a try if you can catch and pass.

Your point kind of made there on that try. Although Kinghorn is comically bad in defence as well

Agree as well. We’ve seen it in football too, a player with insane speed but little else can make it as a pro but will never be top class. Basic skills are always required.

[robmatic]

Not sure about Owsley, I just don't think he has the basic skills. That's a try if you can catch and pass.

Your point kind of made there on that try. Although Kinghorn is comically bad in defence as well

Agree as well. We’ve seen it in football too, a player with insane speed but little else can make it as a pro but will never be top class. Basic skills are always required.

If he does a job as a pro that's a decent outcome though. I think in Scotland terms he could be a real asset to the 7s team.

Kinghorn not having a great game so far.

[I like neeps]

Kinghorn turning his back in defence... Exactly why he was moved from fullback.

Class try though.

[KingBlairhorn]

Your point kind of made there on that try. Although Kinghorn is comically bad in defence as well

Agree as well. We’ve seen it in football too, a player with insane speed but little else can make it as a pro but will never be top class. Basic skills are always required.

If he does a job as a pro that's a decent outcome though. I think in Scotland terms he could be a real asset to the 7s team.

Kinghorn not having a great game so far.

Subbed at halftime, always a bit of a slap in the face.

Kinghorn up and down. If Edinburgh lose this it will be the first major error by Blair.

[I like neeps]

That's dirty by Marshall Sykes.

[KingBlairhorn]

This is going to be tough for Edinburgh now.

[Slick]

That's dirty by Marshall Sykes.

Really dumb. As I said earlier though, the Young yellow was far more dangerous compared to a lot of reds being given

[KingBlairhorn]

Slightly weird take, but Muncaster’s footwork through contact worries me. He is hugely dynamic in the way he presents to contact, but his use of footwork often leaves him twisting through the contact in awkward ways. It might lead to a bad injury the way his knees are placed as he has a high tendency for twisting motions.

[KingBlairhorn]

Frank Murphy thinks one ruck under your own sticks is advantage over from a knock-on. I think he forgot he’d given advantage.

[KingBlairhorn]

We’ll that was terrible and brilliant at the same time. Big big win.

Pyrgos managed that like a boss.

[Slick]

It’s probably a bit unfair that the focus always goes back to Kinghorn but there are just too many compromises at the moment to have him at 10.

Down to 14 you need your 10 to be controlling things but he was totally anonymous in the 2nd half. His defence is pretty diabolical and you need a place kicked to be shoehorned into the team somewhere.

When he does his thing he’s magic but hard to see it being worth it at the moment.

Young had a good game, Pyrgos was decent, Schoooo deserved MoM

[I like neeps]

It’s probably a bit unfair that the focus always goes back to Kinghorn but there are just too many compromises at the moment to have him at 10.

Down to 14 you need your 10 to be controlling things but he was totally anonymous in the 2nd half. His defence is pretty diabolical and you need a place kicked to be shoehorned into the team somewhere.

When he does his thing he’s magic but hard to see it being worth it at the moment.

Young had a good game, Pyrgos was decent, Schoooo deserved MoM

His play in attack is why Edinburgh have had such a good season are such an exciting team. He's not the type to control a tight game from 10 but you've every chance to gamebreak it which can be just as if not more valuable. Edinburgh wouldn't be where they are with vdw (who played well today) Savala or Chamberlain.

Also there's nowhere else to play him, simply isn't as good as Bofelli or even Immelman at 15. He's never been a winger either. I think the experiment has been a success. The whole team was poor today - they clearly underestimed Zebre. .

I think Edinburgh need to move on from Owsley - he is very clearly a sprinter who took up rugby two years ago. Complete waste of a spot. He's 24 he's hardly young either. They should play Jacob Henry an age grade standout who played very well in the super6 our development league.

[KingBlairhorn]

Am I right in saying 4th plays 5th in the playoffs? Still a decent chance that could be Edinburgh Glasgow…

[charltom]

His defence is pretty diabolical

I've always thought this and have never understood why GT praises it. Does he mistake "big guy" for "good defender"?

[Tichtheid]

It’s probably a bit unfair that the focus always goes back to Kinghorn but there are just too many compromises at the moment to have him at 10.

Down to 14 you need your 10 to be controlling things but he was totally anonymous in the 2nd half. His defence is pretty diabolical and you need a place kicked to be shoehorned into the team somewhere.

When he does his thing he’s magic but hard to see it being worth it at the moment.

Young had a good game, Pyrgos was decent, Schoooo deserved MoM

His play in attack is why Edinburgh have had such a good season are such an exciting team. He's not the type to control a tight game from 10 but you've every chance to gamebreak it which can be just as if not more valuable. Edinburgh wouldn't be where they are with vdw (who played well today) Savala or Chamberlain.

Also there's nowhere else to play him, simply isn't as good as Bofelli or even Immelman at 15. He's never been a winger either. I think the experiment has been a success. The whole team was poor today - they clearly underestimed Zebre. .

I think Edinburgh need to move on from Owsley - he is very clearly a sprinter who took up rugby two years ago. Complete waste of a spot. He's 24 he's hardly young either. They should play Jacob Henry an age grade standout who played very well in the super6 our development league.

Not sure about the paragraph on Owsley, that's not to say I disagree, just that I'm not sure. He's only played, what three games? He made a good attacking kick early on

I totally agree on Kinghorn regarding him at 10, we wouldn't be anywhere near where we are without him at fly half this season.

I tend to agree with Toonie and Blair, he can play pretty much anywhere outside 9 at international level, let alone Edinburgh.

His concentration is the one thing that lets him down but I think it's improving. He still makes howlers in his passing, but his running is better than any other ten we have had for a very long time

[Tichtheid]

His defence is pretty diabolical

I've always thought this and have never understood why GT praises it. Does he mistake "big guy" for "good defender"?

I really don't see the defensive liability that others seem to.

Hamish Watson, Hamish fucking Watson, let the Zebre winger in for a soft try after missing a bread and butter tackle tonight

[weegie01]

That match was a great example of why Bath were confident. Edinburgh fans are frankly delusional about the pack. Sutherland, Berghan and Toolis going has weakened it. The first choice front five are still excellent, but when either Nel or Schoeman go, we are in trouble. We have got away with it, but tonight the scrummaging powerhouse of Zebre showed the issues.

I do not want to watch if Nel retires.

Once the control up front goes, it is amplified in the backs. They look great running pretty patterns against sides that give them space, but remove the forward platform, shut down the space, and more often than not, the control goes, they can't batten down and play percentages and the wheels come off.

[Tichtheid]

That match was a great example of why Bath were confident. Edinburgh fans are frankly delusional about the pack. Sutherland, Berghan and Toolis going has weakened it. The first choice front five are still excellent, but when either Nel or Schoeman go, we are in trouble. We have got away with it, but tonight the scrummaging powerhouse of Zebre showed the issues.

I do not want to watch if Nel retires.

Once the control up front goes, it is amplified in the backs. They look great running pretty patterns against sides that give them space, but remove the forward platform, shut down the space, and more often than not, the control goes, they can't batten down and play percentages and the wheels come off.

Our pack hasn't been done over too often this season.

Nel is exceptional, Schoey very good, but De Bruin and Venter are also top class in league terms. We were fielding third and fourth choice tighheads and likewise after Schoeman on the lefthand side.

The one thing that I thought tonight is how much we miss Gilchrist when he's not there - it's not a popular viewpoint, but it happens so often that the pack under performs without him that it seems obvious to me.

The pack was also missing Bill Mata and Jamie Ritchie, btw.

[Slick]

His defence is pretty diabolical

I've always thought this and have never understood why GT praises it. Does he mistake "big guy" for "good defender"?

I really don't see the defensive liability that others seem to.

Hamish Watson, Hamish fucking Watson, let the Zebre winger in for a soft try after missing a bread and butter tackle tonight

I can compromise on a lot of your previous post but this is madness! I reckon there was at the very least 6 occasions this evening where his defence was shown to be very poor

[weegie01]

That match was a great example of why Bath were confident. Edinburgh fans are frankly delusional about the pack. Sutherland, Berghan and Toolis going has weakened it. The first choice front five are still excellent, but when either Nel or Schoeman go, we are in trouble. We have got away with it, but tonight the scrummaging powerhouse of Zebre showed the issues.

I do not want to watch if Nel retires.

Once the control up front goes, it is amplified in the backs. They look great running pretty patterns against sides that give them space, but remove the forward platform, shut down the space, and more often than not, the control goes, they can't batten down and play percentages and the wheels come off.

Our pack hasn't been done over too often this season.

Nel is exceptional, Schoey very good, but De Bruin and Venter are also top class in league terms. We were fielding third and fourth choice tighheads and likewise after Schoeman on the lefthand side.

The one thing that I thought tonight is how much we miss Gilchrist when he's not there - it's not a popular viewpoint, but it happens so often that the pack under performs without him that it seems obvious to me.

The pack was also missing Bill Mata and Jamie Ritchie, btw.

I am embarrassed to say that in my disgust I totally forgot de Bruin and Venter.

Just ignore the old man in the corner.

[Slick]

It’s probably a bit unfair that the focus always goes back to Kinghorn but there are just too many compromises at the moment to have him at 10.

Down to 14 you need your 10 to be controlling things but he was totally anonymous in the 2nd half. His defence is pretty diabolical and you need a place kicked to be shoehorned into the team somewhere.

When he does his thing he’s magic but hard to see it being worth it at the moment.

Young had a good game, Pyrgos was decent, Schoooo deserved MoM

His play in attack is why Edinburgh have had such a good season are such an exciting team. He's not the type to control a tight game from 10 but you've every chance to gamebreak it which can be just as if not more valuable. Edinburgh wouldn't be where they are with vdw (who played well today) Savala or Chamberlain.

Also there's nowhere else to play him, simply isn't as good as Bofelli or even Immelman at 15. He's never been a winger either. I think the experiment has been a success. The whole team was poor today - they clearly underestimed Zebre. .

I think Edinburgh need to move on from Owsley - he is very clearly a sprinter who took up rugby two years ago. Complete waste of a spot. He's 24 he's hardly young either. They should play Jacob Henry an age grade standout who played very well in the super6 our development league.

Not sure about the paragraph on Owsley, that's not to say I disagree, just that I'm not sure. He's only played, what three games? He made a good attacking kick early on

I totally agree on Kinghorn regarding him at 10, we wouldn't be anywhere near where we are without him at fly half this season.

I tend to agree with Toonie and Blair, he can play pretty much anywhere outside 9 at international level, let alone Edinburgh.

His concentration is the one thing that lets him down but I think it's improving. He still makes howlers in his passing, but his running is better than any other ten we have had for a very long time

Agree with a lot of what both of you say in regards to Edinburgh not being where they are without him this year, some of his attacking has been exceptional. Just think this is probably his limit and Edinburgh’s limit with him at 10.

It’s a real conundrum because he is exactly the kind of player I love but I just don’t see where he really fits in at club level and certainly at not international level

[Tichtheid]

I've always thought this and have never understood why GT praises it. Does he mistake "big guy" for "good defender"?

I really don't see the defensive liability that others seem to.

Hamish Watson, Hamish fucking Watson, let the Zebre winger in for a soft try after missing a bread and butter tackle tonight

I can compromise on a lot of your previous post but this is madness! I reckon there was at the very least 6 occasions this evening where his defence was shown to be very poor

Talk me through it.

I recorded the match and will watch it again

[Tichtheid]

When Kinghorn was moved to ten at the start of this season I said here or elsewhere that it's going to take at least two full seasons to get him up to speed.

Even some of the most sceptical Glasgow fans have been saying that he's probably ahead of where they thought he would be by this time, okay there are those who will be stick pins into small Kinghorn likenesses, but they are not going to be satisfied even if he turns into Dan Carter.

I think so far he scores around 7/10, I think he's currently Scotland's second best 10, but I also think he has a very high ceiling

[Big D]

With Kinghorn, we need to ne careful to differentiate between being a bad defender and having a bad game in defence.

Most of the time his defence is passable at 10. He's defensively better on the wing but that's a different position to defend in.

[I like neeps]

It’s probably a bit unfair that the focus always goes back to Kinghorn but there are just too many compromises at the moment to have him at 10.

Down to 14 you need your 10 to be controlling things but he was totally anonymous in the 2nd half. His defence is pretty diabolical and you need a place kicked to be shoehorned into the team somewhere.

When he does his thing he’s magic but hard to see it being worth it at the moment.

Young had a good game, Pyrgos was decent, Schoooo deserved MoM

His play in attack is why Edinburgh have had such a good season are such an exciting team. He's not the type to control a tight game from 10 but you've every chance to gamebreak it which can be just as if not more valuable. Edinburgh wouldn't be where they are with vdw (who played well today) Savala or Chamberlain.

Also there's nowhere else to play him, simply isn't as good as Bofelli or even Immelman at 15. He's never been a winger either. I think the experiment has been a success. The whole team was poor today - they clearly underestimed Zebre. .

I think Edinburgh need to move on from Owsley - he is very clearly a sprinter who took up rugby two years ago. Complete waste of a spot. He's 24 he's hardly young either. They should play Jacob Henry an age grade standout who played very well in the super6 our development league.

Not sure about the paragraph on Owsley, that's not to say I disagree, just that I'm not sure. He's only played, what three games? He made a good attacking kick early on

I totally agree on Kinghorn regarding him at 10, we wouldn't be anywhere near where we are without him at fly half this season.

I tend to agree with Toonie and Blair, he can play pretty much anywhere outside 9 at international level, let alone Edinburgh.

His concentration is the one thing that lets him down but I think it's improving. He still makes howlers in his passing, but his running is better than any other ten we have had for a very long time

I saw him Vs Brive I think when he might've been motm as he ran really fast past extremely uninterested Brive players and yesterday again he's just not a rugby player. Everytime he's doing something other than running in a straight line he looks like he just doesn't belong on a rugby pitch. I just do not see it all.

Re Kinghorn - I agree I think his concentration is getting there. I think his defence at 10 is better than when he's at 15 (admittedly harder defending at 15), he's a gamebreaker which we didn't see at 15. I can't see the justification of Kinghorn moving back to his old spot where he was probably about an average URC player and hadn't challenged Hogg or any of the wingers for Scotland and wasn't a gamebreaking force for Edinburgh as he was when he first broke through either.

I don't think he's going to be a top level controlling 10 ever. But he has undeniable advantages I think. In a pretty sh*te season for Scottish rugby the positives have been Blair and Kinghorn orchestrating some really exciting attacks and Rory Hutchinson lighting up the Prem.

[Slick]

Probably the best post on this

[Big D]

Re Kinghorn - I agree I think his concentration is getting there. I think his defence at 10 is better than when he's at 15 (admittedly harder defending at 15), he's a gamebreaker which we didn't see at 15. I can't see the justification of Kinghorn moving back to his old spot where he was probably about an average URC player and hadn't challenged Hogg or any of the wingers for Scotland and wasn't a gamebreaking force for Edinburgh as he was when he first broke through either.

I don't think he's going to be a top level controlling 10 ever. But he has undeniable advantages I think. In a pretty sh*te season for Scottish rugby the positives have been Blair and Kinghorn orchestrating some really exciting attacks and Rory Hutchinson lighting up the Prem.

I wonder how we would do at full back now on a team looking to create space. For too much of the Cockerill/Hodge era the game plan appeared to be "give it to Bill, Blair or Duhan".

I wouldn't give up on him at 10 but think he'd be better at 15 than we saw in the last 18months under the previous regime.