What to do with Beauden Barrett?

[Amethyst]

I know I'm replying to someone on a month-long windup but suggesting Mo'unga doesn't do remarkable things to swing a game is bonkers. He does it pretty regularly these days.

There's no wind-up from me, mate. I truly believe that Richie is not in the same class as BB. In fact, I would rate a player like Pollard a better test player than Richie and Pollard is definitely not a favourite of mine.

[Jimmy Smallsteps]

I know I'm replying to someone on a month-long windup but suggesting Mo'unga doesn't do remarkable things to swing a game is bonkers. He does it pretty regularly these days.

There's no wind-up from me, mate. I truly believe that Richie is not in the same class as BB. In fact, I would rate a player like Pollard a better test player than Richie and Pollard is definitely not a favourite of mine.

Then you are a moron.

[Sandstorm]

Moron goes home with net bulging.......

[Jimmy Smallsteps]

Moron goes home with net bulging.......

Still a moron.

[Amethyst]

Quite a cute little forum this. Liittle ones don't agree with you and sweet liitle remarks follow. Kindergarten stuff.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

Barrett moved to 15 with Mo'unga coming in after the struggles against the Lions, giving a 2nd playmaker allowing NZ to stretch the defence with the options at first receiver which Hansen deemed a needed update to the side without some power carriers in the pack or in the centres. To go back to just one of them suggests Foster sees the game differently to Hansen, which would be odd given his previous job, or that they think they now have better carriers available.

[Guy Smiley]

Barrett moved to 15 with Mo'unga coming in after the struggles against the Lions, giving a 2nd playmaker allowing NZ to stretch the defence with the options at first receiver which Hansen deemed a needed update to the side without some power carriers in the pack or in the centres. To go back to just one of them suggests Foster sees the game differently to Hansen, which would be odd given his previous job, or that they think they now have better carriers available.

The eventual selection of Mo’unga was forced on Hansen and Foster when MacKenzie did his knee. They were already wedded to the dual playmaker idea. Half of NZ was screaming for Mo’unga to be selected for his more refined approach to playing at 10 over the other two who play as individuals crowding their backlines more.

It had nothing to do with available power runners and everything to do with the stubborn adherence to preferred selections from the coaching team.

[Carter's Choice]

Barrett moved to 15 with Mo'unga coming in after the struggles against the Lions, giving a 2nd playmaker allowing NZ to stretch the defence with the options at first receiver which Hansen deemed a needed update to the side without some power carriers in the pack or in the centres. To go back to just one of them suggests Foster sees the game differently to Hansen, which would be odd given his previous job, or that they think they now have better carriers available.

The eventual selection of Mo’unga was forced on Hansen and Foster when MacKenzie did his knee. They were already wedded to the dual playmaker idea. Half of NZ was screaming for Mo’unga to be selected for his more refined approach to playing at 10 over the other two who play as individuals crowding their backlines more.

It had nothing to do with available power runners and everything to do with the stubborn adherence to preferred selections from the coaching team.

This. If it wasn't for Damien McKenzie's untimely injury, we probably wouldn't have seen Mo'unga in black at all last year. The more pressure that people and the media put on Hansen to select Richie Mo'unga, the more stubborn our former head coach became. We all remember his famous 'Rolls Royce pack" comment which was said solely to devalue and diminish Mo'unga's body of work with the Crusaders. By the end of his tenure, Steve Hansen was a cancer on the game.

[Jb1981]

When it comes to a coach comparing players have two players performances ever been as contrastingly devalued or excused as by Hansen discussing Mo’unga and Barrett?

We didn’t just have the Rolls Royce comment but also things like Barrett being excused because he had a “poor communicator” outside him in Ngani Laumape at the Hurricanes. We ended up with the bizarre situation of one player who could hardly do anything right (or if they did, only because of the team) and the other nothing wrong in the eyes of the coach.

[Carter's Choice]

When it comes to a coach comparing players have two players performances ever been as contrastingly devalued or excused as by Hansen discussing Mo’unga and Barrett?

We didn’t just have the Rolls Royce comment but also things like Barrett being excused because he had a “poor communicator” outside him in Ngani Laumape at the Hurricanes. We ended up with the bizarre situation of one player who could hardly do anything right (or if they did, only because of the team) and the other nothing wrong in the eyes of the coach.

Totally. Whenever BB played badly it was because of his weak teammates, and when he played well it was because he was a brilliant player. In stark contrast, Mo'unga's good performances were always dismissed because he played behind a "Rolls Royce pack" at the Crusaders, but his errors were seized upon as being evidence that he wasn't good enough and was mentally frail.

[coldtowel3478]

Hansen always had his favourites (Mackenzie and Barrett at 10) being his worst tendency (as this ridded the team of stable, level-headed 10 who could organise and direct the backline - instead of hogging the ball and running/crabbing sideways away from all support players like an under 9's team) and stubbornly insisted his way was correct. Henry and Smith would've never allowed such a directionless, helter-skelter style of rugby with gameplan revolving around two erratic players Barrett and Mackenzie running the cutter, fulfilling dual playmaker roles. We ended up with zero-cohesion in the backline and (more often than not) individual brilliance to scrap home ugly wins.

Hansen's selections when it mattered were atrocious.

Just think about it: after four years of so-called planning they played a lock at flanker and a backline of complete rookies. Why was Crotty, someone Hansen went on record as saying was selected for his experience (instead of Laumape), barely played? Why was Ben Smith ignored until the last game? If he wasn't fit, why was he selected at all? After being a passenger for several years, why did Hansen wait until the last minute to dump Owen Franks? If it's one thing NZ rugby has in abundance, it's loose forwards. Yet we ended up with a cobbled- together mess when it counted.

Hansen was good on team culture, but his selections (and the development of the forward pack - in particular) under his watch was simply abysmal.

[FujiKiwi]

Foster is Hansen-lite (Not literally).

He doesn't have any of Hansen's good points and he has all of his bad points, magnified.

[Carter's Choice]

Foster and his coaching team are all earning over a million dollars a year in 2020, for doing what exactly? They attended lots of SR Aotearoa matches this season, but what have they actually contributed to NZ Rugby this year? What have they given back? If test matches don't go ahead these guys should get out and about and support the provincial coaching teams during the Mitre 10 Cup. Even if tests do go ahead, there will only be a handful at most. Foster and his sidekicks are supposedly the best coaches in NZ so why aren't they being used more effectively by NZR? I wish I could get paid a million bucks a year to do absolutely nothing.

[Jimmy Smallsteps]

Hansen always had his favourites (Mackenzie and Barrett at 10) being his worst tendency (as this ridded the team of stable, level-headed 10 who could organise and direct the backline - instead of hogging the ball and running/crabbing sideways away from all support players like an under 9's team) and stubbornly insisted his way was correct. Henry and Smith would've never allowed such a directionless, helter-skelter style of rugby with gameplan revolving around two erratic players Barrett and Mackenzie running the cutter, fulfilling dual playmaker roles. We ended up with zero-cohesion in the backline and (more often than not) individual brilliance to scrap home ugly wins.

Hansen's selections when it mattered were atrocious.

Just think about it: after four years of so-called planning they played a lock at flanker and a backline of complete rookies. Why was Crotty, someone Hansen went on record as saying was selected for his experience (instead of Laumape), barely played? Why was Ben Smith ignored until the last game? If he wasn't fit, why was he selected at all? After being a passenger for several years, why did Hansen wait until the last minute to dump Owen Franks? If it's one thing NZ rugby has in abundance, it's loose forwards. Yet we ended up with a cobbled- together mess when it counted.

Hansen was good on team culture, but his selections (and the development of the forward pack - in particular) under his watch was simply abysmal.

Great post. So painfully true.

[Gumboot]

Great post. So painfully true.

I don't entirely agree with the comment about Hansen's failure to develop the forward pack. After all, he did introduce a few pretty handy players - the likes of Retallick, Cane, Coles, Moody, Ardie, Todd and Scott Barrett all turned out ok. Squire's late defection before the RWC really threw a spanner in the works (and resulted in the flawed SF blindside selection), and I don't think Retallick was back to his best after his serious injury in July.

But yeah, he should've stepped aside in 2017 as originally planned.

[Jimmy Smallsteps]

Quite a cute little forum this. Liittle ones don't agree with you and sweet liitle remarks follow. Kindergarten stuff.

Talk utter rot and you are going to get called on it. Simple.

[Jimmy Smallsteps]

Great post. So painfully true.

I don't entirely agree with the comment about Hansen's failure to develop the forward pack. After all, he did introduce a few pretty handy players - the likes of Retallick, Cane, Coles, Moody, Ardie, Todd and Scott Barrett all turned out ok. Squire's late defection before the RWC really threw a spanner in the works (and resulted in the flawed SF blindside selection), and I don't think Retallick was back to his best after his serious injury in July.

But yeah, he should've stepped aside in 2017 as originally planned.

Squire's late withdrawal didn't result in the flawed SF blindside selection. Hansen's moronic decision to disrupt a humming loose forward trio did.

What was wrong with the 6. Savea, 7. Cane and 8. Read combination that had been so effective in the games prior?

[Amethyst]

Quite a cute little forum this. Liittle ones don't agree with you and sweet liitle remarks follow. Kindergarten stuff.

Talk utter rot and you are going to get called on it. Simple.

Kindergarten child.

[Gumboot]

Great post. So painfully true.

I don't entirely agree with the comment about Hansen's failure to develop the forward pack. After all, he did introduce a few pretty handy players - the likes of Retallick, Cane, Coles, Moody, Ardie, Todd and Scott Barrett all turned out ok. Squire's late defection before the RWC really threw a spanner in the works (and resulted in the flawed SF blindside selection), and I don't think Retallick was back to his best after his serious injury in July.

But yeah, he should've stepped aside in 2017 as originally planned.

Squire's late withdrawal didn't result in the flawed SF blindside selection. Hansen's moronic decision to disrupt a humming loose forward trio did.

What was wrong with the 6. Savea, 7. Cane and 8. Read combination that had been so effective in the games prior?

Nothing, that's the point. They thought they had to deviate from starting both Cane and Savea and have a big body at 6 (who would've been Squire) to combat a perceived English strength.

[Amethyst]

Your midfield is a much bigger issue. Mediocre and not a threat in attack. Thus another reason why BB with his unpredictability and superior extraordinary skills can make a better contribution at 10.

[Jimmy Smallsteps]

I know I'm replying to someone on a month-long windup but suggesting Mo'unga doesn't do remarkable things to swing a game is bonkers. He does it pretty regularly these days.

There's no wind-up from me, mate. I truly believe that Richie is not in the same class as BB. In fact, I would rate a player like Pollard a better test player than Richie and Pollard is definitely not a favourite of mine.

Now THAT'S kindergarten talk. Rubbish commentary. A waste of time to read.

[Jimmy Smallsteps]

I don't entirely agree with the comment about Hansen's failure to develop the forward pack. After all, he did introduce a few pretty handy players - the likes of Retallick, Cane, Coles, Moody, Ardie, Todd and Scott Barrett all turned out ok. Squire's late defection before the RWC really threw a spanner in the works (and resulted in the flawed SF blindside selection), and I don't think Retallick was back to his best after his serious injury in July.

But yeah, he should've stepped aside in 2017 as originally planned.

Squire's late withdrawal didn't result in the flawed SF blindside selection. Hansen's moronic decision to disrupt a humming loose forward trio did.

What was wrong with the 6. Savea, 7. Cane and 8. Read combination that had been so effective in the games prior?

Nothing, that's the point. They thought they had to deviate from starting both Cane and Savea and have a big body at 6 (who would've been Squire) to combat a perceived English strength.

Yeah, but we were well past that by then. Ireland weren't small and neither were South Africa in pool play. Yet that loose forward combination worked very effectively.

[Amethyst]

I know I'm replying to someone on a month-long windup but suggesting Mo'unga doesn't do remarkable things to swing a game is bonkers. He does it pretty regularly these days.

There's no wind-up from me, mate. I truly believe that Richie is not in the same class as BB. In fact, I would rate a player like Pollard a better test player than Richie and Pollard is definitely not a favourite of mine.

Now THAT'S kindergarten talk. Rubbish commentary. A waste of time to read.

You read it anyway and cared to comment. A bit more adultlike than your usual efforts.

[Jimmy Smallsteps]

There's no wind-up from me, mate. I truly believe that Richie is not in the same class as BB. In fact, I would rate a player like Pollard a better test player than Richie and Pollard is definitely not a favourite of mine.

Now THAT'S kindergarten talk. Rubbish commentary. A waste of time to read.

You read it anyway and cared to comment. A bit more adultlike than your usual efforts.

Do you actually watch Super Rugby Aotearoa? You know, the recent comp where Richie Mo'unga was named player of the season?

Or indeed the Blues/Hurricanes v Crusaders games in recent times where Richie has out played Barrett every time?

Or do you just watch internationals?

[Gumboot]

Squire's late withdrawal didn't result in the flawed SF blindside selection. Hansen's moronic decision to disrupt a humming loose forward trio did.

What was wrong with the 6. Savea, 7. Cane and 8. Read combination that had been so effective in the games prior?

Nothing, that's the point. They thought they had to deviate from starting both Cane and Savea and have a big body at 6 (who would've been Squire) to combat a perceived English strength.

Yeah, but we were well past that by then. Ireland weren't small and neither were South Africa in pool play. Yet that loose forward combination worked very effectively.

It was a huge selection blunder, to be sure.

[Guy Smiley]

Now THAT'S kindergarten talk. Rubbish commentary. A waste of time to read.

You read it anyway and cared to comment. A bit more adultlike than your usual efforts.

Do you actually watch Super Rugby Aotearoa? You know, the recent comp where Richie Mo'unga was named player of the season?

Or indeed the Blues/Hurricanes v Crusaders games in recent times where Richie has out played Barrett every time?

Or do you just watch internationals?

I’m not sure why you engage? This is classic Saffa trolling schtick... just walking around waving a meat stick pretending to be witty, clever... even sentient.

[Amethyst]

Now THAT'S kindergarten talk. Rubbish commentary. A waste of time to read.

You read it anyway and cared to comment. A bit more adultlike than your usual efforts.

Do you actually watch Super Rugby Aotearoa? You know, the recent comp where Richie Mo'unga was named player of the season?

Or indeed the Blues/Hurricanes v Crusaders games in recent times where Richie has out played Barrett every time?

Or do you just watch internationals?

How many games have BB played at 10 compared to Richie this year?

[Jb1981]

Mo’unga has played far more games at 10 this year than Barrett. He has commanded the first-five position for the Crusaders and was named player of the tournament for his efforts. Barrett shared the role with Otere Black at the Blues.

That says a lot, really.

[Amethyst]

Mo’unga has played far more games at 10 this year than Barrett. He has commanded the first-five position for the Crusaders and was named player of the tournament for his efforts. Barrett shared the role with Otere Black at the Blues.

That says a lot, really.

I read a NZ article published 19 July 2020 saying that up until then he has not played at 10. So he has played 2/3 games at 10 since his return to 10 and you guys are writing him off at 10. Ridiculous.

[FujiKiwi]

For all the justified agitation on this thread about how shit Foster is, he isn't going to start Beauden at 10 if R Mo is fit.

Barrett will likely start at 15. That's not what I would do, but is it the end of the world?

EDIT: Let's just ignore the silliness of trolls and have a grown up discussion.

[Sandstorm]

You all know that BB is going to play an absolute blinder in the North/South game at 10?

[Jb1981]

Mo’unga has played far more games at 10 this year than Barrett. He has commanded the first-five position for the Crusaders and was named player of the tournament for his efforts. Barrett shared the role with Otere Black at the Blues.

That says a lot, really.

I read a NZ article published 19 July 2020 saying that up until then he has not played at 10. So he has played 2/3 games at 10 since his return to 10 and you guys are writing him off at 10. Ridiculous.

Those of us preferring Mo’unga are basing that on the last two to three years, not two to three games.

[Jimmy Smallsteps]

You read it anyway and cared to comment. A bit more adultlike than your usual efforts.

Do you actually watch Super Rugby Aotearoa? You know, the recent comp where Richie Mo'unga was named player of the season?

Or indeed the Blues/Hurricanes v Crusaders games in recent times where Richie has out played Barrett every time?

Or do you just watch internationals?

How many games have BB played at 10 compared to Richie this year?

If you watched the competition you might be able to answer that.

[Amethyst]

Mo’unga has played far more games at 10 this year than Barrett. He has commanded the first-five position for the Crusaders and was named player of the tournament for his efforts. Barrett shared the role with Otere Black at the Blues.

That says a lot, really.

I read a NZ article published 19 July 2020 saying that up until then he has not played at 10. So he has played 2/3 games at 10 since his return to 10 and you guys are writing him off at 10. Ridiculous.

Those of us preferring Mo’unga are basing that on the last two to three years, not two to three games.

How many games have BB played at 10 the last 2 two 3 years? Give him a decent shot at his favourite position then we talk again.

[Carter's Choice]

I'm considering putting this stupid troll on ignore.

[Amethyst]

Do you actually watch Super Rugby Aotearoa? You know, the recent comp where Richie Mo'unga was named player of the season?

Or indeed the Blues/Hurricanes v Crusaders games in recent times where Richie has out played Barrett every time?

Or do you just watch internationals?

How many games have BB played at 10 compared to Richie this year?

If you watched the competition you might be able to answer that.

It takes a brain surgeon to work out how many games he could have played at 10 since the week that followed the 19 of July? Your competition was almost over by then (not to mention that the Blues' last game was also cancelled) . So what was it at the end 1/2?

[Amethyst]

I'm considering putting this stupid troll on ignore.

Kindergarten robocop

[Sandstorm]

I'm considering putting this stupid troll on ignore.

Join the club, it gets bigger every day.

[Jimmy Smallsteps]

You all know that BB is going to play an absolute blinder in the North/South game at 10?

That'll be on the South Island loosies then. Barrett only plays well at 10 when he has time and space.

[Jb1981]

I read a NZ article published 19 July 2020 saying that up until then he has not played at 10. So he has played 2/3 games at 10 since his return to 10 and you guys are writing him off at 10. Ridiculous.

Those of us preferring Mo’unga are basing that on the last two to three years, not two to three games.

How many games have BB played at 10 the last 2 two 3 years? Give him a decent shot at his favourite position then we talk again.

I would assume 50+ in that time frame . More than a decent shot in anyone’s book.