The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

[Torquemada 1420]

Could Sco make it 5 from 5 for the NH?

Slightly odd to have a dropped played commentating on his teammates?

[KingBlairhorn]

Kinghorn at fullback klaxon.

[Slick]

Kinghorn at fullback klaxon.

Mental

[happytramp]

Come on Scotland! You've got this. Don't let the side down!

[Jock42]

I thought it would be a 3 nil drubbing. This 2nd half has been superb.

[Slick]

Sounds like Darge and Fagerson8 have had good games.

How has Thompson done since he came on?

[happytramp]

Congrats. Emphatic

[Biffer]

I thought it would be a 3 nil drubbing. This 2nd half has been superb.

Wouldn’t say that, they have nearly had three tries, butchered a few themselves. Poor defensively but the pumas haven’t taken advantage.

But a lot better.

[Jock42]

Sounds like Darge and Fagerson8 have had good games.

How has Thompson done since he came on?

Starts next week

[Torquemada 1420]

I thought it would be a 3 nil drubbing. This 2nd half has been superb.

Wouldn’t say that, they have nearly had three tries, butchered a few themselves. Poor defensively but the pumas haven’t taken advantage.

But a lot better.

I think you are being harsh. Sco's defence has been excellent and their breakdown work superb. Lost count how many Arg balls they have turned over.

[KingBlairhorn]

Sounds like Darge and Fagerson8 have had good games.

How has Thompson done since he came on?

MFagerson’s footwork into contact is so good.

Darge is just a superb rugby player.

Thomson didn’t do anything wrong, but I barely remember him being involved.

Christie was well up for it!

[Biffer]

I thought it would be a 3 nil drubbing. This 2nd half has been superb.

Wouldn’t say that, they have nearly had three tries, butchered a few themselves. Poor defensively but the pumas haven’t taken advantage.

But a lot better.

I think you are being harsh. Sco's defence has been excellent and their breakdown work superb. Lost count how many Arg balls they have turned over.

I thought Creevy was over and we had to rely on two knocking over the line. It’s not good defence when you’re relying on that

[Jock42]

Anyone know any bars in Nijmegen that'll show the game next week?

[And 1 guest]

Still want Ritchie starting when fit

[LenCohen]

I can't shake the feeling that studio Hogg is actually Jonathan Watson doing a bit

[Yr Alban]

OK, I feel a bit better after that scoreline. May not have been a vintage performance, but at least we still remember how to play.

Slightly concerned that both Hutch and Rowe went off injured. Did the injuries look bad?

[mos_eisely_]

OK, I feel a bit better after that scoreline. May not have been a vintage performance, but at least we still remember how to play.

Slightly concerned that both Hutch and Rowe went off injured. Did the injuries look bad?

Toonie just said definitely no Rowe next weekend and Hutch is a doubt as well

[Biffer]

I can't shake the feeling that studio Hogg is actually Jonathan Watson doing a bit

God yes, anyone who says otherwise needs sectioned.

[bessantj]

Great to see Scotland getting a fully deserved win.

[I like neeps]

Looks a class win, I've been in Germany this weekend. Anyway to watch it back?

[Tichtheid]

Looks a class win, I've been in Germany this weekend. Anyway to watch it back?

I missed it too as I was out, you can watch it on demand with a Now Tv pass

[fishfoodie]

Well done Gents

Salta isn't a easy place to get a win, but last night, in the 2nd half, it all clicked for the players.

[Biffer]

I don’t think last week was as bad as many of us were making out, but similarly I don’t think last night was as good as some are suggesting. A few lucky breaks in last weeks game would have got us there or thereabouts, and we got the breaks last night.

[Yr Alban]

Wasn’t able to watch the game. From what I’m hearing, though, Scotland played considerably better with Kinghorn at 15. It concerns me that we are so determined to make him into a 10, when we have more options there than we do at 15. It reminds me so much of the attempts to turn Toony himself into a 12. The abused becomes the abuser…

[westport]

Townsend declared Hutchinson doubtful for the series decider, while expressing fears that London Irish wing Rowe had suffered a "serious injury" after coming on to win his first cap.

I hope it is not too serious

[I like neeps]

I don’t think last week was as bad as many of us were making out, but similarly I don’t think last night was as good as some are suggesting. A few lucky breaks in last weeks game would have got us there or thereabouts, and we got the breaks last night.

As Boris Johnson said thems the breaks. I do agree that the scoreline looked better than the performance was having now watched it. However, the defence on the line was great and you have to take your chances which we don't always.

Another pretty poor game for Kinghorn at 10 for me but he looked better than I expected at 15. His simple passing is somehow innacurate but his difficult passes are pretty bang on. It's maddening.

The pack was good, I really think Cherry has to be first choice hooker.

[Yr Alban]

Townsend declared Hutchinson doubtful for the series decider, while expressing fears that London Irish wing Rowe had suffered a "serious injury" after coming on to win his first cap.

I hope it is not too serious

I heard cruciate from somewhere. Unconfirmed though.

[Slick]

Not trying to antagonise anyone but it’s a conversation that’s worth having.

I caveat all by saying I’ve only watched a 5 minute YouTube clip of the game and followed it live over BBC, NPR and Twitter…

However, the general feeling was that Kinghorn had another stinker at 10 then was decent at 15. Given there are 8/9 games until the WC I’d suggest that this should now be over. We need him to cover 15 and Fin and Hastings need all those games to be the top 2. I’d suggest that anything else is just the coaches being stubborn, there just can’t be any other reason to carry this on in the remaining games, and I include next week.

[Tichtheid]

Not trying to antagonise anyone but it’s a conversation that’s worth having.

I caveat all by saying I’ve only watched a 5 minute YouTube clip of the game and followed it live over BBC, NPR and Twitter…

However, the general feeling was that Kinghorn had another stinker at 10 then was decent at 15. Given there are 8/9 games until the WC I’d suggest that this should now be over. We need him to cover 15 and Fin and Hastings need all those games to be the top 2. I’d suggest that anything else is just the coaches being stubborn, there just can’t be any other reason to carry this on in the remaining games, and I include next week.

I think that's probably aimed at me so I'll respond.

I genuinely feel players gets a disproportionate amount of shite thrown at them, people are gunning for certain players before a ball is kicked due to all sorts of reasons, but you'd have to ask them why because I have no idea.

Greig Laidlaw was the last one I remember getting this level of opprobrium, when you defend them you end up being seen as holding the outlying point of view because it becomes received wisdom that the "reasonable" point of view is that this or that Scottish player is shite.
Any view to the contrary is just weird, apparently. The window of reasonableness is moved so that saying a player is not utter shite is taken as a nutty thing to say.

Kinghorn did not have a stinker by any reasonable measure, the pack were getting no where in the first half and that was why we struggled, no ball, no continuity and no fly half is going to thrive under those conditions.

In fact, it was a Kinghorn restart after an Argentinian penalty goal that was very high and very deep that was chased well that led to us playing within five metres of the Argentinian line, that pressure led to the penalty which Kinghorn kicked to the corner and ended up with Watson scoring.

He actually played pretty well at fullback, which to my mind shows the move works, he can cover ten, both wings and fullback, which was the whole point.

Is he the finished article at ten?
Not by a long chalk, but he is still a very promising player there, having now had the one full season there.

[Slick]

Not necessarily aimed at you, but yes, with you in mind.

I’d start by defending myself slightly by saying that I was the outlier for most of this season having questioned the move from about the 1st minute of his first game there. It’s a decent point though because, as I mentioned, I followed it on social media and there was a definite “he’s shite” about it. In saying that, it wasn’t particularly nasty, more get him back to 15.

To be honest though, to pick a restart as the top of his highlight reel probably illustrates where we are. Odd flash of brilliance but no control or instinct for the position.

Your final point is right, we know he can now cover 10 in extremis, but I don’t think Scotland should be giving any more game time there.

[Blackmac]

Just watched the game for the first time and to be honest I'm struggling to find much fault with that performance. The pack were very solid and very abrasive about the park. I thought collectively the starting front row, and in particular Schoeman, played a blinder. The back row were excellent and I think we have settled out best options there .Fagerson seems to have totally cemented the 8 jersey.

I thought Graham was superb, by far the best back on show and I also thought Kinghorn did okay. He really didn't do anything badly wrong. If anything it was Johnson that had a bit of a shocker as he failed to take three fairly straight forward passes from Kinghorn.

I also thought there was some pretty impressive try line defence when we were under the cosh in the last 10 minutes.

Usual causes for concern are restarts and line outs.

[Tichtheid]

To be honest though, to pick a restart as the top of his highlight reel probably illustrates where we are. Odd flash of brilliance but no control or instinct for the position.

I could have picked a try saving tackle, or some terrific passing, or some great pace, but I picked one of his restart kicks which led to pressure being put immediately on to the opposition because they had great hang time and were very deep, meaning Argentina had to play from a ruck on their own 5m - ie a nuts and bolts item from a good ten's tool bag, in fact we don't have another fly half who can place those kicks like that, including Finn.

[Tichtheid]

Just watched the game for the first time and to be honest I'm struggling to find much fault with that performance. The pack were very solid and very abrasive about the park. I thought collectively the starting front row, and in particular Schoeman, played a blinder. The back row were excellent and I think we have settled out best options there .Fagerson seems to have totally cemented the 8 jersey.

I thought Graham was superb, by far the best back on show and I also thought Kinghorn did okay. He really didn't do anything badly wrong. If anything it was Johnson that had a bit of a shocker as he failed to take three fairly straight forward passes from Kinghorn.

I also thought there was some pretty impressive try line defence when we were under the cosh in the last 10 minutes.

Usual causes for concern are restarts and line outs.

I wrote on the Weedge forum about my preference for a third lineout jumper, and for me no one is keeping Jamie Ritchie out of the team, as harsh as it is that means Darge and Watson going head to head to start at 7.

[Blackmac]

Just watched the game for the first time and to be honest I'm struggling to find much fault with that performance. The pack were very solid and very abrasive about the park. I thought collectively the starting front row, and in particular Schoeman, played a blinder. The back row were excellent and I think we have settled out best options there .Fagerson seems to have totally cemented the 8 jersey.

I thought Graham was superb, by far the best back on show and I also thought Kinghorn did okay. He really didn't do anything badly wrong. If anything it was Johnson that had a bit of a shocker as he failed to take three fairly straight forward passes from Kinghorn.

I also thought there was some pretty impressive try line defence when we were under the cosh in the last 10 minutes.

Usual causes for concern are restarts and line outs.

I wrote on the Weedge forum about my preference for a third lineout jumper, and for me no one is keeping Jamie Ritchie out of the team, as harsh as it is that means Darge and Watson going head to head to start at 7.

Yeah, sorry. Meant back row options for the final test. I think Watson it's just still ahead of Darge, especially if he carries on like this.

[Tichtheid]

Just watched the game for the first time and to be honest I'm struggling to find much fault with that performance. The pack were very solid and very abrasive about the park. I thought collectively the starting front row, and in particular Schoeman, played a blinder. The back row were excellent and I think we have settled out best options there .Fagerson seems to have totally cemented the 8 jersey.

I thought Graham was superb, by far the best back on show and I also thought Kinghorn did okay. He really didn't do anything badly wrong. If anything it was Johnson that had a bit of a shocker as he failed to take three fairly straight forward passes from Kinghorn.

I also thought there was some pretty impressive try line defence when we were under the cosh in the last 10 minutes.

Usual causes for concern are restarts and line outs.

I wrote on the Weedge forum about my preference for a third lineout jumper, and for me no one is keeping Jamie Ritchie out of the team, as harsh as it is that means Darge and Watson going head to head to start at 7.

Yeah, sorry. Meant back row options for the final test. I think Watson it's just still ahead of Darge, especially if he carries on like this.

It's great that we have so many genuine options without dropping the standards. Haining, Bradbury, Crosbie, Christie, Bayliss are all excellent choices to have in blending a backrow.
Connor Boyle will be knocking on the door in the not too distant future too

[Dogbert]

Always interesting to re-watch a Game without the emotion

The score flattered Scotland a bit , but not the result
Argentina could have kicked a number of Penalties to keep the scoreboard ticking over , they chose not to
Both starting Props had fine games , both in the set piece & in the loose , Hard Yards made , Tackles completed , No stupid penalties - see Zander - it can be done
Both Fagersons had probably their best games in a Scotland Shirt - Dempsey's arrival at Glasgow seems to have pushed M.Fagersons game on a level.

The Backrow worked

Gregor got the Team and the tactics right, He gets pelters when it doesn't go well , He should be praised when it goes right .

What do we do with Kinghorn though

He's a fine Rugby Player and I really hoped that this tour would allow him to see if he can step up to be an International 10 (surely that's what these tests are for ) , and he should be given the last test ..... but on the current showing he's just simply not where he needs to be playing

13 minutes out on the full
20 minutes Pop pass as Johnson hit milliseconds later the Argentine defender
25 Pass from Hutchinson to Kinghorn - who passed it to thin air , missing Duhan completely , attack breaks down
27 minutes - Gets Isolated on the deck - gives away a Penalty , Attack breaks down
37 Minutes - misses (fairly simple) conversion
45 another Pop pass to Johnson , who again gets hit milliseconds later by the Argentine defender
50 minutes to Full back
56 - Gets caught on a Run from Deep - another Penalty awarded against
67 minutes - great defensive tackle on 5 m line

That's pretty much it , no real attacking threat , and didn't have a hand in any of the tries , a lot the time Scotland used either Hutchinson , or Johnson as first receivers.
In an emergency , can he do a job at 10 - Of course , but I would put him into the Pete Horne category

[Tichtheid]

Always interesting to re-watch a Game without the emotion

The score flattered Scotland a bit , but not the result
Argentina could have kicked a number of Penalties to keep the scoreboard ticking over , they chose not to
Both starting Props had fine games , both in the set piece & in the loose , Hard Yards made , Tackles completed , No stupid penalties - see Zander - it can be done
Both Fagersons had probably their best games in a Scotland Shirt - Dempsey's arrival at Glasgow seems to have pushed M.Fagersons game on a level.

The Backrow worked

Gregor got the Team and the tactics right, He gets pelters when it doesn't go well , He should be praised when it goes right .

What do we do with Kinghorn though

He's a fine Rugby Player and I really hoped that this tour would allow him to see if he can step up to be an International 10 (surely that's what these tests are for ) , and he should be given the last test ..... but on the current showing he's just simply not where he needs to be playing

13 minutes out on the full
20 minutes Pop pass as Johnson hit milliseconds later the Argentine defender
25 Pass from Hutchinson to Kinghorn - who passed it to thin air , missing Duhan completely , attack breaks down
27 minutes - Gets Isolated on the deck - gives away a Penalty , Attack breaks down
37 Minutes - misses (fairly simple) conversion
45 another Pop pass to Johnson , who again gets hit milliseconds later by the Argentine defender
50 minutes to Full back
56 - Gets caught on a Run from Deep - another Penalty awarded against
67 minutes - great defensive tackle on 5 m line

That's pretty much it , no real attacking threat , and didn't have a hand in any of the tries , a lot the time Scotland used either Hutchinson , or Johnson as first receivers.
In an emergency , can he do a job at 10 - Of course , but I would put him into the Pete Horne category

That is ridiculous

And youse wonder why I come back at pish like that?

[Dogbert]

Always interesting to re-watch a Game without the emotion

The score flattered Scotland a bit , but not the result
Argentina could have kicked a number of Penalties to keep the scoreboard ticking over , they chose not to
Both starting Props had fine games , both in the set piece & in the loose , Hard Yards made , Tackles completed , No stupid penalties - see Zander - it can be done
Both Fagersons had probably their best games in a Scotland Shirt - Dempsey's arrival at Glasgow seems to have pushed M.Fagersons game on a level.

The Backrow worked

Gregor got the Team and the tactics right, He gets pelters when it doesn't go well , He should be praised when it goes right .

What do we do with Kinghorn though

He's a fine Rugby Player and I really hoped that this tour would allow him to see if he can step up to be an International 10 (surely that's what these tests are for ) , and he should be given the last test ..... but on the current showing he's just simply not where he needs to be playing

13 minutes out on the full
20 minutes Pop pass as Johnson hit milliseconds later the Argentine defender
25 Pass from Hutchinson to Kinghorn - who passed it to thin air , missing Duhan completely , attack breaks down
27 minutes - Gets Isolated on the deck - gives away a Penalty , Attack breaks down
37 Minutes - misses (fairly simple) conversion
45 another Pop pass to Johnson , who again gets hit milliseconds later by the Argentine defender
50 minutes to Full back
56 - Gets caught on a Run from Deep - another Penalty awarded against
67 minutes - great defensive tackle on 5 m line

That's pretty much it , no real attacking threat , and didn't have a hand in any of the tries , a lot the time Scotland used either Hutchinson , or Johnson as first receivers.
In an emergency , can he do a job at 10 - Of course , but I would put him into the Pete Horne category

That is ridiculous

And youse wonder why I come back at pish like that?

Which part do you not agree with ?

[Tichtheid]

Which part do you not agree with ?

For the most part the idea that Kinghorn operates in a vacuum with no external influences and that any Scottish breakdown in attack or defence is entirely his fault.

[Dogbert]

Which part do you not agree with ?

For the most part the idea that Kinghorn operates in a vacuum with no external influences and that any Scottish breakdown in attack or defence is entirely his fault.

Of Course he doesn't - mostly , and that's not what I'm saying - but in some instances he does - He is a fine Rugby player - but in my opinion he is not an International 10 - he may be in the future - but not now .he s forcing things that are not coming naturally

In the instances I picked out on 25,27 and 56 minutes , these were purely Kinghorn errors ( as was kibckig the ball out on the full ) , which allowed Argentina to clear their lines

You have a different view of Kinghorn to me , But I think he did have a poor game on Saturday

If you can show me where he had a real influence on this game , do so - its' easy to say pish and ridiculous - if I have missed something ( won't be the first or last time ) then show me where