The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

[Tichtheid]

Apropos of nothing, Matt Fagerson is 24 today. 24. How is he still only 24?!

Smith - 21
McLean - 22
vdMerwe - 27
Bennett - 29
Tuipolotu - 25
Kinghorn - 25
Price - 29

Fagerson M - 24
Darge - 22
Watson - 30
Cummings - 25
Gray - 28
Fagerson Z - 26
Ashman - 22
Sutherland 28

Cherry - 31
Schoey - 28
Sebastian - 27
Young - 27
Christie - 23
Horne - 27
Thompson - 23
Johnson - 29

With the exception of Gilchrist the rest of the squad are pretty young too and most will be around for the 2027 RWC in Australia, obviously I hope we will see the likes of Currie , Walker, Dobie and others as regular test players by then

[Biffer]

Apropos of nothing, Matt Fagerson is 24 today. 24. How is he still only 24?!

Zander's 50th cap today too. There will be dancing on the streets of Perth.

50 caps and a Lions tour by the age of 26 is good for anyone, but it’s amazing for a TH prop.

[Slick]

Kinghorn came across as a really top bloke in that pre match interview

[Tichtheid]

Nice from Blair, great power from vdM

[Tichtheid]

good try from Arg

[Slick]

Well that was a fun 40.

Defence has been pretty good.

Kinghorn has been generally excellent as has Price and both Fagersons. Seeing wee glimpses of how good Smith is going to be.

Ashman has been brilliant around the park, his throwing has been poor, but that front row looks really solid.

Every game Darge plays makes Jamie Richies return more interesting

Ref is awful

[vball]

Kinghorn tries to steal a metre for his kick and ref takes it back.
Kinghorn kicks and it bounces off the bar.
Bloody ref !!

[Blackmac]

Well that was a fun 40.

Defence has been pretty good.

Kinghorn has been generally excellent as has Price and both Fagersons. Seeing wee glimpses of how good Smith is going to be.

Ashman has been brilliant around the park, his throwing has been poor, but that front row looks really solid.

Every game Darge plays makes Jamie Richies return more interesting

Ref is awful

Looking forward to see Cherry and Shoey get into this.

[Tichtheid]

We kind of threw that away, but well done Argentina

[Tichtheid]

Restarts, you catch the ball and batter it upfield.

Seemingly it's really difficult

[Blackmac]

Price was just an absolute disgrace in the final 20 minutes. How many times has he fucked us at crucial times.

What the duck is Hogg talking about the line out normally being a great strength. It's been a shambles for two years

[KingBlairhorn]

Shit the bed.

[Blackmac]

Shit the bed.

Kinghorn had a blinder though.

[Blackmac]

Do Hoggy and Townsend never get bored with talking about huge amount of positives to take away.

[Soapy]

Bye, bye Gregor. Dreadful selector. Dreadful coach. But still will be there for another early exit from the WC …

[Slick]

Why change a dominant front row when 15 points up with 20 to go. Particularly when the hooker has scored twice and having a blinded in the loose. Pre planned subs. So fucking dumb

Why not take the 3 to go 7 up with 8 minutes to play. So fucking dumb.

Kinghorn had his best game by a mile for Scotland and I reckon his 2nd best game at 10, if not his best.

Ashman was great apart from the throwing. Both Fagersons good.

Darge is so good. As I said earlier, going to get very interesting when Ritchie is back.

Very disappointing but….. we looked the best we have for a long time in patches. Let’s not throw the baby out etc

[I like neeps]

Bye, bye Gregor. Dreadful selector. Dreadful coach. But still will be there for another early exit from the WC …

He won't go this year it'll be after the world cup. Annoying as it is we have 2 of the best teams in the world in our pool, we moosed the last world cup losing to a dreadful Ireland team without firing a shot so it's his fault anyway.

[Slick]

Really interesting thing for me last night was Hogg talking about Kinghorns issue is that he drifts in and out of games and that he is working on keeping his focus. Kinghorn also said the same thing in his very good pre match conversation.

You could see last night that he was really driving himself to be more involved, being a lot more vocal and just had a look of intensity about him.

I still remain largely unconvinced by him at 10 but I thought last night was a huge step forward and look forward to seeing if it can continue.

[Charles]

The good thing is we are showing incredible consistency. Repeating the same errors, penalties, disorganisation, lack of clarity of thought and execution, mental weakness and inability to perform under any pressure. This comes from this imposter of a coach and his total failure to select, man manage and implement. And it is obvious the squad have no belief or confidence in him and he is creating scisms all over the place. He has to go now for us to even get a chance to stabalise for us to even have a chance to stand still over the next few years. We are going to get crushed at the world cup no matter what! But he won’t go and the SRU won’t sack him! We’re just going to fall further and further now!

[SaintK]

The good thing is we are showing incredible consistency. Repeating the same errors, penalties, disorganisation, lack of clarity of thought and execution, mental weakness and inability to perform under any pressure. This comes from this imposter of a coach and his total failure to select, man manage and implement. And it is obvious the squad have no belief or confidence in him and he is creating scisms all over the place. He has to go now for us to even get a chance to stabalise for us to even have a chance to stand still over the next few years. We are going to get crushed at the world cup no matter what! But he won’t go and the SRU won’t sack him! We’re just going to fall further and further now!

Blimey!!!
Powerful first post, but you can thank your lucky stars that you are not lumbered with Eddie Jones

[Charles]

I think that my post reflects my total frustration and disillusionment with Scottish rugby and the SRU which is at the worst it has been over more than 40 years of being involved in/following Scottish rugby. Part of that is with the game generally and the way in which it is run and officiated, which is ruining it as a spectacle. So probably the only thing Eddie Jones has ever said or done with which I agree.

And massively by the mismanagement of the pro and age grade game by the SRU, the cliqueiness of its structures (especially on the coaching front) and its abject neglect of grass routes and youth rugby.

And the one aspect of the game that they do commit to - the Men’s National team - they allowed themselves to be dictated to by GT to usurp a coach who was putting down proper foundations who then proves to be out of his depth and unable to properly utilise the best talent a Scottish coach has had available to him for over 30 years!

[Slick]

I think that my post reflects my total frustration and disillusionment with Scottish rugby and the SRU which is at the worst it has been over more than 40 years of being involved in/following Scottish rugby. Part of that is with the game generally and the way in which it is run and officiated, which is ruining it as a spectacle. So probably the only thing Eddie Jones has ever said or done with which I agree.

And massively by the mismanagement of the pro and age grade game by the SRU, the cliqueiness of its structures (especially on the coaching front) and its abject neglect of grass routes and youth rugby.

And the one aspect of the game that they do commit to - the Men’s National team - they allowed themselves to be dictated to by GT to usurp a coach who was putting down proper foundations who then proves to be out of his depth and unable to properly utilise the best talent a Scottish coach has had available to him for over 30 years!

With respect, if you think this is the worst Scottish rugby has been for over 40 years you have a very short memory.

[Charles]

With respect, whilst there were undoubtedly dark days for a large part of those 40 years you could see the limited availabel resources and so we had to measure our disappointment against acceptance we were limited in what we could realistically achieve with what was available. However, that isn’t the case now and that drives the annoyance and frustration. And we are light years behind in our pathways and youth coaching and also promoting the game to a wider audience- that is all on the SRU!

[Slick]

With respect, whilst there were undoubtedly dark days for a large part of those 40 years you could see the limited availabel resources and so we had to measure our disappointment against acceptance we were limited in what we could realistically achieve with what was available. However, that isn’t the case now and that drives the annoyance and frustration. And we are light years behind in our pathways and youth coaching and also promoting the game to a wider audience- that is all on the SRU!

Difficult to disagree with that last sentence but we are still behind almost every other nation in terms of resources. However, even if that is the case you are right, we should be doing an awful lot better on all those measures

[Charles]

Great we agree and undoubtedly we are paupers on resources no matter what! It is so depressing on the youth rugby front. My fried with kids at school in Dublin talks about every rugby playing having full time s&c and skills coaches and blocks of 8 weeks every summer where these boys week days being expected to come in and commit to the programme. All IRFU co-ordinated and part funded. Where as here …?

[I like neeps]

Great we agree and undoubtedly we are paupers on resources no matter what! It is so depressing on the youth rugby front. My fried with kids at school in Dublin talks about every rugby playing having full time s&c and skills coaches and blocks of 8 weeks every summer where these boys week days being expected to come in and commit to the programme. All IRFU co-ordinated and part funded. Where as here …?

Does his son go to a private school? Because the private schools here have S&C's (as do English private schools). They all do summer training as well. The problem is the public schools not getting the support. But Irish schools rugby is very private dominated as well - I doubt the IRFU are funding skills coaches and S&C's in all 400 schools across the country. The Welsh would be a better example to copy.

[KingBlairhorn]

Great we agree and undoubtedly we are paupers on resources no matter what! It is so depressing on the youth rugby front. My fried with kids at school in Dublin talks about every rugby playing having full time s&c and skills coaches and blocks of 8 weeks every summer where these boys week days being expected to come in and commit to the programme. All IRFU co-ordinated and part funded. Where as here …?

Does his son go to a private school? Because the private schools here have S&C's (as do English private schools). They all do summer training as well. The problem is the public schools not getting the support. But Irish schools rugby is very private dominated as well - I doubt the IRFU are funding skills coaches and S&C's in all 400 schools across the country. The Welsh would be a better example to copy.

Exactly this - the hugely impressive pathways in Ireland are centered around the fee-paying schools and especially the Dublin fee-paying schools. Whilst the IRFU is certainly involved, my understanding from Irish family is that the schools themselves are predominantly responsible for this and the IRFU got involved after they were established, not before. The likes of Blackrock or whatever see it as one of the key differentiators for their school and heavily promote the quality of their rugby programmes. Whilst the Irish deserve enormous praise for the way they have developed their systems over the last 20 years to become arguably one of the pre-eminent pathways in world rugby, we have to be careful to understand how exactly they developed if we seek to copy them in any way. We also have to be aware, as neeps points out, that our own Independent schools are well on their way, at least in Edinburgh, to replicating some of these structures. This is not where the bulk of the SRU focus should be (not suggesting you said it was btw).

Once again I'm going to bang the drum for Performance Schools. We need to find ways to expand the number of schools with genuine high quality rugby programmes. Support the Independent schools to ensure they can maximise their impact, but we need to have non-fee paying schools with rugby programmes too and those must be linked to the clubs who do the vast majority of the early development. Independently educated children in Scotland make up less than 4% of the total enrollment, it beggars belief that the SRU can effectively ignore the 96% who don't come through that system which is what many seem to be suggesting is happening.

[I like neeps]

Great we agree and undoubtedly we are paupers on resources no matter what! It is so depressing on the youth rugby front. My fried with kids at school in Dublin talks about every rugby playing having full time s&c and skills coaches and blocks of 8 weeks every summer where these boys week days being expected to come in and commit to the programme. All IRFU co-ordinated and part funded. Where as here …?

Does his son go to a private school? Because the private schools here have S&C's (as do English private schools). They all do summer training as well. The problem is the public schools not getting the support. But Irish schools rugby is very private dominated as well - I doubt the IRFU are funding skills coaches and S&C's in all 400 schools across the country. The Welsh would be a better example to copy.

Exactly this - the hugely impressive pathways in Ireland are centered around the fee-paying schools and especially the Dublin fee-paying schools. Whilst the IRFU is certainly involved, my understanding from Irish family is that the schools themselves are predominantly responsible for this and the IRFU got involved after they were established, not before. The likes of Blackrock or whatever see it as one of the key differentiators for their school and heavily promote the quality of their rugby programmes. Whilst the Irish deserve enormous praise for the way they have developed their systems over the last 20 years to become arguably one of the pre-eminent pathways in world rugby, we have to be careful to understand how exactly they developed if we seek to copy them in any way. We also have to be aware, as neeps points out, that our own Independent schools are well on their way, at least in Edinburgh, to replicating some of these structures. This is not where the bulk of the SRU focus should be (not suggesting you said it was btw).

Once again I'm going to bang the drum for Performance Schools. We need to find ways to expand the number of schools with genuine high quality rugby programmes. Support the Independent schools to ensure they can maximise their impact, but we need to have non-fee paying schools with rugby programmes too and those must be linked to the clubs who do the vast majority of the early development. Independently educated children in Scotland make up less than 4% of the total enrollment, it beggars belief that the SRU can effectively ignore the 96% who don't come through that system which is what many seem to be suggesting is happening.

They don't ignore it, it's just you've got such limited options. Rugby clubs run basically on volunteer coaches - hugely passionate about the game and use their time. Supplemented with SRU development officers regionally and the SRU boost the coaching skills of these guys. So makes sense for this to be the focus.

Public schools PE teachers won't be specialist in rugby, even if they like it which isn't guaranteed like clubs and they won't have the time with all the nonsense work teachers have to go and coach up kids for league games and take time out to do so. But it's part of the job for private schools to provide this. Only so much the SRU can do. They'd need to hire hundreds of people to be based in schools for this to be a success and even then it doesn't really work as you'd need coaches for matches.

Agree you'd need a similar system to the SFA performance schools but it's not a silver bullet and logistically very difficult.

[dpedin]

Does his son go to a private school? Because the private schools here have S&C's (as do English private schools). They all do summer training as well. The problem is the public schools not getting the support. But Irish schools rugby is very private dominated as well - I doubt the IRFU are funding skills coaches and S&C's in all 400 schools across the country. The Welsh would be a better example to copy.

Exactly this - the hugely impressive pathways in Ireland are centered around the fee-paying schools and especially the Dublin fee-paying schools. Whilst the IRFU is certainly involved, my understanding from Irish family is that the schools themselves are predominantly responsible for this and the IRFU got involved after they were established, not before. The likes of Blackrock or whatever see it as one of the key differentiators for their school and heavily promote the quality of their rugby programmes. Whilst the Irish deserve enormous praise for the way they have developed their systems over the last 20 years to become arguably one of the pre-eminent pathways in world rugby, we have to be careful to understand how exactly they developed if we seek to copy them in any way. We also have to be aware, as neeps points out, that our own Independent schools are well on their way, at least in Edinburgh, to replicating some of these structures. This is not where the bulk of the SRU focus should be (not suggesting you said it was btw).

Once again I'm going to bang the drum for Performance Schools. We need to find ways to expand the number of schools with genuine high quality rugby programmes. Support the Independent schools to ensure they can maximise their impact, but we need to have non-fee paying schools with rugby programmes too and those must be linked to the clubs who do the vast majority of the early development. Independently educated children in Scotland make up less than 4% of the total enrollment, it beggars belief that the SRU can effectively ignore the 96% who don't come through that system which is what many seem to be suggesting is happening.

They don't ignore it, it's just you've got such limited options. Rugby clubs run basically on volunteer coaches - hugely passionate about the game and use their time. Supplemented with SRU development officers regionally and the SRU boost the coaching skills of these guys. So makes sense for this to be the focus.

Public schools PE teachers won't be specialist in rugby, even if they like it which isn't guaranteed like clubs and they won't have the time with all the nonsense work teachers have to go and coach up kids for league games and take time out to do so. But it's part of the job for private schools to provide this. Only so much the SRU can do. They'd need to hire hundreds of people to be based in schools for this to be a success and even then it doesn't really work as you'd need coaches for matches.

Agree you'd need a similar system to the SFA performance schools but it's not a silver bullet and logistically very difficult.

Not all the private schools in Scotland focus on rugby either - it tends to be a small number of them who have a focus on rugby, and offer rugby scholarships, which means we end up with a very small pool to work with. Would a better approach not be for clubs to twin up with local schools and the SRU try and support them both through joint appointments and coaching programmes. I know this happens in some schools/clubs already and it seems successful?

[Blackmac]

The more I have thought about it today the more it has annoyed me. Can someone with a greater rugby knowledge than mine explain to me why the fuck Price thought it was a good idea to box kick away possession with a couple of minutes to go. These guys are meant to have professional rugby brains so why couldn't he see we had soundly lost the aerial battle but had retained possession with easy when we had trucked it up. The chances of us gathering the box kick were minimal compared with the chances of the forwards retaining possession for enough phases to waste a few minutes.

[Slick]

Exactly this - the hugely impressive pathways in Ireland are centered around the fee-paying schools and especially the Dublin fee-paying schools. Whilst the IRFU is certainly involved, my understanding from Irish family is that the schools themselves are predominantly responsible for this and the IRFU got involved after they were established, not before. The likes of Blackrock or whatever see it as one of the key differentiators for their school and heavily promote the quality of their rugby programmes. Whilst the Irish deserve enormous praise for the way they have developed their systems over the last 20 years to become arguably one of the pre-eminent pathways in world rugby, we have to be careful to understand how exactly they developed if we seek to copy them in any way. We also have to be aware, as neeps points out, that our own Independent schools are well on their way, at least in Edinburgh, to replicating some of these structures. This is not where the bulk of the SRU focus should be (not suggesting you said it was btw).

Once again I'm going to bang the drum for Performance Schools. We need to find ways to expand the number of schools with genuine high quality rugby programmes. Support the Independent schools to ensure they can maximise their impact, but we need to have non-fee paying schools with rugby programmes too and those must be linked to the clubs who do the vast majority of the early development. Independently educated children in Scotland make up less than 4% of the total enrollment, it beggars belief that the SRU can effectively ignore the 96% who don't come through that system which is what many seem to be suggesting is happening.

They don't ignore it, it's just you've got such limited options. Rugby clubs run basically on volunteer coaches - hugely passionate about the game and use their time. Supplemented with SRU development officers regionally and the SRU boost the coaching skills of these guys. So makes sense for this to be the focus.

Public schools PE teachers won't be specialist in rugby, even if they like it which isn't guaranteed like clubs and they won't have the time with all the nonsense work teachers have to go and coach up kids for league games and take time out to do so. But it's part of the job for private schools to provide this. Only so much the SRU can do. They'd need to hire hundreds of people to be based in schools for this to be a success and even then it doesn't really work as you'd need coaches for matches.

Agree you'd need a similar system to the SFA performance schools but it's not a silver bullet and logistically very difficult.

Not all the private schools in Scotland focus on rugby either - it tends to be a small number of them who have a focus on rugby, and offer rugby scholarships, which means we end up with a very small pool to work with. Would a better approach not be for clubs to twin up with local schools and the SRU try and support them both through joint appointments and coaching programmes. I know this happens in some schools/clubs already and it seems successful?

Accies, Broughton and Trinity have the BATs club that combines the youth teams and goes into schools, seems quite successful

[I like neeps]

The more I have thought about it today the more it has annoyed me. Can someone with a greater rugby knowledge than mine explain to me why the fuck Price thought it was a good idea to box kick away possession with a couple of minutes to go. These guys are meant to have professional rugby brains so why couldn't he see we had soundly lost the aerial battle but had retained possession with easy when we had trucked it up. The chances of us gathering the box kick were minimal compared with the chances of the forwards retaining possession for enough phases to waste a few minutes.

Not that I have better rugby knowledge but it's because holding onto your position with about 5 minutes to go in your own half is not a good idea. I doubt anyone can hold the ball that long in top level right these days. It's very likely you concede a penalty or are turned over. Kicking is always the right option there. Price's kick was awful which is the problem.

[Slick]

Anyone know anything about Portobello rugby club? Going to be my new local club in a couple of weeks so keen to get involved

[Blackmac]

The more I have thought about it today the more it has annoyed me. Can someone with a greater rugby knowledge than mine explain to me why the fuck Price thought it was a good idea to box kick away possession with a couple of minutes to go. These guys are meant to have professional rugby brains so why couldn't he see we had soundly lost the aerial battle but had retained possession with easy when we had trucked it up. The chances of us gathering the box kick were minimal compared with the chances of the forwards retaining possession for enough phases to waste a few minutes.

Not that I have better rugby knowledge but it's because holding onto your position with about 5 minutes to go in your own half is not a good idea. I doubt anyone can hold the ball that long in top level right these days. It's very likely you concede a penalty or are turned over. Kicking is always the right option there. Price's kick was awful which is the problem.

I just don't see that, not with a box kick. The ground gained is minimal if you are wanting to give your chasers even a small chance. I really can't see how retaining the ball for a few more phases until you waste another thirty seconds, get better field position and then kick the ball deep, is not a far better option. Allows you to receive their attack well into their half and also allows time to set your defence. What am I missing.

[I like neeps]

The more I have thought about it today the more it has annoyed me. Can someone with a greater rugby knowledge than mine explain to me why the fuck Price thought it was a good idea to box kick away possession with a couple of minutes to go. These guys are meant to have professional rugby brains so why couldn't he see we had soundly lost the aerial battle but had retained possession with easy when we had trucked it up. The chances of us gathering the box kick were minimal compared with the chances of the forwards retaining possession for enough phases to waste a few minutes.

Not that I have better rugby knowledge but it's because holding onto your position with about 5 minutes to go in your own half is not a good idea. I doubt anyone can hold the ball that long in top level right these days. It's very likely you concede a penalty or are turned over. Kicking is always the right option there. Price's kick was awful which is the problem.

I just don't see that, not with a box kick. The ground gained is minimal if you are wanting to give your chasers even a small chance. I really can't see how retaining the ball for a few more phases until you waste another thirty seconds, get better field position and then kick the ball deep, is not a far better option. Allows you to receive their attack well into their half and also allows time to set your defence. What am I missing.

Yes agree that instead of box kicking teams should just blooter it away more. Especially as Kinghorn has a massive boot.

[Tichtheid]

Accies, Broughton and Trinity have the BATs club that combines the youth teams and goes into schools, seems quite successful

I was trying to remember what BATs was called when this topic was brought up.

I'm a little bit jealous of you moving to Porty, my mate had one of the nice sandstone terraced houses near the beach, lovely place.

Beach bonfires at Slicks for Hogmanay, then :-)

I don't know much about the club, but they are an old one, they used to play quite high up the leagues, no idea now

[Slick]

Accies, Broughton and Trinity have the BATs club that combines the youth teams and goes into schools, seems quite successful

I was trying to remember what BATs was called when this topic was brought up.

I'm a little bit jealous of you moving to Porty, my mate had one of the nice sandstone terraced houses near the beach, lovely place.

Beach bonfires at Slicks for Hogmanay, then :-)

I don't know much about the club, but they are an old one, they used to play quite high up the leagues, no idea now

Yes, really looking forward to the move, we are just a blockish from the beach but far enough not to hear the nonsense that can sometimes go on! Seems to have a real community spirit about the place and the kids are over the moon.

Also, at the ripe old age of nearer 50 than 40 it's actually the first house I/we have owned! Will obviously be voting tory now.

Following the club on social media they look like a good old fashioned rugby club which is great

[westport]

Anyone know anything about Portobello rugby club? Going to be my new local club in a couple of weeks so keen to get involved

A friend is a member there, it is good club with lots of good guys there Ian Goodall is also a member there

[Slick]

Anyone know anything about Portobello rugby club? Going to be my new local club in a couple of weeks so keen to get involved

A friend is a member there, it is good club with lots of good guys there Ian Goodall is also a member there

Cheers!

Who’s Ian Goodall?

[westport]

Anyone know anything about Portobello rugby club? Going to be my new local club in a couple of weeks so keen to get involved

A friend is a member there, it is good club with lots of good guys there Ian Goodall is also a member there

Cheers!

Who’s Ian Goodall?

Used to be the referees manager