Women's Rugby Thread

[eldanielfire]

Looks like Litchfield is fully going to be Leicester Tigers Women, will start in the 2nd tier, taking Litchfield's place I assume, and apply for promotion to the Super XV after next season.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/61711781

Leicester Tigers: Women's team to begin life in Championship North One
Last updated on8 minutes ago8 minutes ago.
From the sectionRugby Union
Leicester Tigers.
Leicester, Bath, London Irish, Northampton and Newcastle are the only Premiership teams not to have a side in the Premier 15s
Leicester Tigers' women's team will begin life in the second tier of the domestic game in the 2022-23 season.

Tigers, who announced a merger with Staffordshire club Lichfield last year, will play in Championship North One and intend to apply for a Premier 15s place the following season.

Lichfield were runners-up to champions Cheltenham in the 2021-22 campaign.

"It is hugely important that we run a successful women's team," said Tigers chief executive Andrea Pinchen.

"We intend to play at the highest level possible - this place in Championship rugby next season is a first step and we will be applying for a place in the Allianz Premier 15s for the 2023-24 season."

Lichfield applied for a licence to play in the inaugural Premier 15s in 2017, but were not successful.

Every three years, the Rugby Football Union opens a bidding process for clubs to have a team in the league, meaning there is no promotion or relegation.

"It's brilliant news to finally have a Leicester Tigers team in the women's leagues," said former England international Vicky Macqueen, the club's head of women's rugby.

"The partnership with Lichfield is crucial not only for next season to ensure we have the best talent available, but also for our ambitions to have a team in the top division from 2023."

Tigers plan to announce some members of next season's squad during Saturday's Premiership semi-final between Leicester's men's team and Northampton Saints.

[eldanielfire]

The Pacific 4 matches, Canada smashes the US, NZ beat OZ but get surprisingly crushed in the scrum:

[Niegs]

I'm guessing those are the World Rugby feeds because they're "not available" to me! One more for their 'grow the game' bollocks (both WR and RC), selling the rights to the matches to TSN days before broadcast. I even tweeted at them, politely, about how many people watch the free stream vs watching the paid stream on a national broadcaster. No answer, of course. I clicked through to make sure TSN wasn't offering it for free. Nope, I either sign up for $200 a year, $20 a month, or $8 for the day. Fuck 'em. I'll wait for a cheeky upload (and while I didn't find the Canada match, I did watch NZ v Aus on youtube a day later).

I imagine most of my team would be like me. A bunch would watch the free stream but not pay. I can think of one or two who would pay for it and have a couple of friends around. I imagine most clubs would be like that. Schools, even less likely to pay unless dad already has the TSN subscription (and am pretty sure it wasn't on cable, just the app - because one of my go-tos for dodgy streams had TSNs 1-5 and it was all tennis and baseball, which is another convo as to why three of five of their channels were showing the SAME tennis match!? )

[tabascoboy]

Victory for South Africa over Zimbabwe in the first match of the Africa Women's Cup with the score 108 - 0.

Today Namibia played Zimbabwe but can't find a result - ah found it: Zimbabwe won 72 - 0 which doesn't bode well for Namibia's chances against SA on Thursday...

[tabascoboy]

A surprise in the South Africa - Namibia match in that Namibia actually got some points on the board. Result was 128 - 3 to SA.

Not sure what is happening elsewhere in Africa wrt this competition but have to hope that SA come up against much stronger opposition as they can't learn much from these routs

[Niegs]

I like this. One last shot to make the big dance with a Ferns Probables vs Possibles.

https://www.allblacks.com/news/world-cu ... rns-trial/

[eldanielfire]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/62051030

More Welsh women put on full time contracts.

Full-time players: Keira Bevan, Alisha Butchers, Alex Callender*, Gwen Crabb*, Georgia Evans*, Kat Evans*, Lleucu George*, Cerys Hale*, Cara Hope*, Natalia John, Hannah Jones, Kelsey Jones*, Jasmine Joyce, Kerin Lake*, Bethan Lewis*, Caitlin Lewis*, Ffion Lewis, Siwan Lillicrap, Lisa Neumann, Carys Phillips, Lilkiana Podpadec*, Kayleigh Powell*, Gwenllian Pyrs, Donna Rose, Elinor Snowsill, Niamh Terry*, Caryl Thomas*, Sisilia Tuipulotu*, Meg Webb*

Part-time players: Abbie Fleming, Robyn Wilkins*.

*Newly awarded contracts, either full-time or retainer.

The other players in the full-time pre-season training programme include: Sioned Harries, Eloise Hayward, Emma Hennessy, Manon Johnes, Lowri Norkett, Gemma Rowland, Jenni Scoble, Scarlett Thomas-Thompson and Carys Williams.

[Niegs]

Hearing that they've also hired Stephen Myler as kicking coach.

[tabascoboy]

Ouch! Fiji 152 - 0 Papua New Guinea

Wonder if that's a record score for a Women's International?


Also Samoa 25 - 17 Tonga

[tabascoboy]

Historic European success gives Poland confidence for Rugby World Cup Sevens 2022 qualifier

https://www.world.rugby/news/731616/his ... -qualifier

[ASMO]

Jess Breach moves from Quins to Sarries, they must have offered her a big wad of cash.

[Niegs]

Nick Heath makes a comment about a potential ban on trans women playing with women by the RFU - which seems to be the sensible move re: safety and fairness, though I respect where Nick is coming from. But I don't feel the need to quote tweet / attack him on it like, seemingly, a few hundred men. I can see why he turned off when I saw the number. Why is it that there appears to by WAY more men raging about trans women in women's sport?

[tabascoboy]

Couple of international results from the weekend

Canada 34 - 24 Italy
Japan 15 - 6 South Africa

[Niegs]

I wondered if Canada's new coaching team has finally got them clicking, looking a little more balanced in attack (totally new FH who's very elusive, though a terrible kicker)? Looked pretty good. Italy, on the contrary, looked more predictable than they ever have. Rigoni was mostly stood behind the pod shoveling passes and not getting involved. Their pack got pushed around, though they did get some ground on occasion with wonderful offloads and slick passing... it was more one-out crashes, sadly.

[Slick]

Nick Heath makes a comment about a potential ban on trans women playing with women by the RFU - which seems to be the sensible move re: safety and fairness, though I respect where Nick is coming from. But I don't feel the need to quote tweet / attack him on it like, seemingly, a few hundred men. I can see why he turned off when I saw the number. Why is it that there appears to by WAY more men raging about trans women in women's sport?

It seems to have drowned out what actual women are saying about the issue. I saw a lot of debate and outrage on Twitter etc but maybe 1 or 2 female rugby players in all that. Have the RFU spoken with women at all levels of the game before making the decision. You'd suppose so, but I haven't seen anything suggesting that

[Niegs]

Nick Heath makes a comment about a potential ban on trans women playing with women by the RFU - which seems to be the sensible move re: safety and fairness, though I respect where Nick is coming from. But I don't feel the need to quote tweet / attack him on it like, seemingly, a few hundred men. I can see why he turned off when I saw the number. Why is it that there appears to by WAY more men raging about trans women in women's sport?

It seems to have drowned out what actual women are saying about the issue. I saw a lot of debate and outrage on Twitter etc but maybe 1 or 2 female rugby players in all that. Have the RFU spoken with women at all levels of the game before making the decision. You'd suppose so, but I haven't seen anything suggesting that

Same.

On a personal level, the women I speak most with seem to be torn... wanting to be like Nick, I think, being an ally and taking pride in being an inclusive community (a good number of them are lesbians themselves), but also wondering about safety. There was a trans woman playing here over the last few years and even our 5'10", 225lb prop said it was noticeably different hitting/being hit by her.



I think others are afraid to speak out fearing the pile-on, being 'cancelled', or simply looking like someone who isn't 'kind'. I'm seeing more voices in other sports calling out the unfairness, though, so I wonder if we're in a tipping point where orgs are getting in line makes it easier for individuals to say full inclusion is just not fair?

[sockwithaticket]

I'm not sure exactly why the RFU have changed their tune, but it does bring them in line with World Rugby's recommendation to all Unions which stems from their long consultation with experts across a range of disciplines.

As I understand it there's some emerging evidence that female rugby players are more susceptible to concussion than their male counterparts With yet more lawsuits and high profile names emerging to talk about their own neurological damage in the men's game you can understand a drive to exclude those who've been through male puberty from the equation given our current inability to adequately counter the physiological advantages.

[Slick]

Nick Heath makes a comment about a potential ban on trans women playing with women by the RFU - which seems to be the sensible move re: safety and fairness, though I respect where Nick is coming from. But I don't feel the need to quote tweet / attack him on it like, seemingly, a few hundred men. I can see why he turned off when I saw the number. Why is it that there appears to by WAY more men raging about trans women in women's sport?

It seems to have drowned out what actual women are saying about the issue. I saw a lot of debate and outrage on Twitter etc but maybe 1 or 2 female rugby players in all that. Have the RFU spoken with women at all levels of the game before making the decision. You'd suppose so, but I haven't seen anything suggesting that

Same.

On a personal level, the women I speak most with seem to be torn... wanting to be like Nick, I think, being an ally and taking pride in being an inclusive community (a good number of them are lesbians themselves), but also wondering about safety. There was a trans woman playing here over the last few years and even our 5'10", 225lb prop said it was noticeably different hitting/being hit by her.



I think others are afraid to speak out fearing the pile-on, being 'cancelled', or simply looking like someone who isn't 'kind'. I'm seeing more voices in other sports calling out the unfairness, though, so I wonder if we're in a tipping point where orgs are getting in line makes it easier for individuals to say full inclusion is just not fair?

That's pretty much my reading of it.

It's also pretty incredible that the RFU policy, from what I've seen, effects 7 (seven) people.

[sockwithaticket]

It seems to have drowned out what actual women are saying about the issue. I saw a lot of debate and outrage on Twitter etc but maybe 1 or 2 female rugby players in all that. Have the RFU spoken with women at all levels of the game before making the decision. You'd suppose so, but I haven't seen anything suggesting that

Same.

On a personal level, the women I speak most with seem to be torn... wanting to be like Nick, I think, being an ally and taking pride in being an inclusive community (a good number of them are lesbians themselves), but also wondering about safety. There was a trans woman playing here over the last few years and even our 5'10", 225lb prop said it was noticeably different hitting/being hit by her.



I think others are afraid to speak out fearing the pile-on, being 'cancelled', or simply looking like someone who isn't 'kind'. I'm seeing more voices in other sports calling out the unfairness, though, so I wonder if we're in a tipping point where orgs are getting in line makes it easier for individuals to say full inclusion is just not fair?

That's pretty much my reading of it.

It's also pretty incredible that the RFU policy, from what I've seen, effects 7 (seven) people.

Tbf you adopt these policies because of the principle rather than the number of people affected.

[Slick]

Same.

On a personal level, the women I speak most with seem to be torn... wanting to be like Nick, I think, being an ally and taking pride in being an inclusive community (a good number of them are lesbians themselves), but also wondering about safety. There was a trans woman playing here over the last few years and even our 5'10", 225lb prop said it was noticeably different hitting/being hit by her.



I think others are afraid to speak out fearing the pile-on, being 'cancelled', or simply looking like someone who isn't 'kind'. I'm seeing more voices in other sports calling out the unfairness, though, so I wonder if we're in a tipping point where orgs are getting in line makes it easier for individuals to say full inclusion is just not fair?

That's pretty much my reading of it.

It's also pretty incredible that the RFU policy, from what I've seen, effects 7 (seven) people.

Tbf you adopt these policies because of the principle rather than the number of people affected.

Yes. More a comment on the massive attention it is getting and the resources taken up for the vanishingly small numbers that are effected. I think you probably knew this.

I also wonder how much all this attention is welcomed by the actual people involved. Presumably they were just getting on with enjoying playing rugby with their mates and now find themselves the centre of attention without, seemingly, their views or concerns being sought.

[sockwithaticket]

That's pretty much my reading of it.

It's also pretty incredible that the RFU policy, from what I've seen, effects 7 (seven) people.

Tbf you adopt these policies because of the principle rather than the number of people affected.

Yes. More a comment on the massive attention it is getting and the resources taken up for the vanishingly small numbers that are effected. I think you probably knew this.

I also wonder how much all this attention is welcomed by the actual people involved. Presumably they were just getting on with enjoying playing rugby with their mates and now find themselves the centre of attention without, seemingly, their views or concerns being sought.

The RFU began a two-year review into its current policy in autumn 2020, which included a game-wide survey that received over 11,000 responses, considered scientific evidence and sought guidance from other sporting bodies.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/62269689

Now, there's nothing explicity there as to whether existing or potential trans players took part in the survey, but you would assume they'd have the opportunity to participate.

To an extent, though, does it matter? Whether they want to play rugby or not isn't really that relevant to whether it's safe or fair for them to do so against people whose sex is female.

You might consider coverage a bit dispproportionate, but it's part of a wider debate across all sports as to what place trans women have in sport and at the heart of that is a pretty fundamental question of why do we separate male and female athletes? It's pretty foundational to how sport has been run for a very, very long time. That's before various culture war warriors get a handle on it and start screaming at each other.

[tabascoboy]

[Niegs]

Sri Lanka?! All the best to them, but how did they make it? Quals or chosen? I can't remember them ever being on the women's circuit. I can think of others that have made appearances... Kenya, PNG, Samoa, Hong Kong (if a participant in these games),

[tabascoboy]

Sri Lanka?! All the best to them, but how did they make it? Quals or chosen? I can't remember them ever being on the women's circuit. I can think of others that have made appearances... Kenya, PNG, Samoa, Hong Kong (if a participant in these games),

It was via the Asia Championships last year, SL and Malaysia the best placed Commonwealth teams by dint of being the only Commonwealth teams in the competition - both finished bottom in their pool though!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Asia ... ens_Series

[Lobby]

Sri Lanka?! All the best to them, but how did they make it? Quals or chosen? I can't remember them ever being on the women's circuit. I can think of others that have made appearances... Kenya, PNG, Samoa, Hong Kong (if a participant in these games),

According to Wikipedia, the 8 nations that qualify for the women's tournament were chosen on the following basis:

The host nation. (England)
The top two nations in combined standings from the 2018–19 and 2019–20 World Rugby Women's Sevens Series, excluding the host nation. (NZ and Australia)
The top North American nation in the aforementioned standings, or the second nation if the former makes the top two outright, excluding the host nation (Canada)
The top nation not yet qualified from each of the four regional qualifiers. (Fiji, Scotland, Sri Lanka and South Africa).

Sri Lanka qualified as the top Commonwealth nation from the Asian women's 7s tournament in Dubai in November 21. They came 6th out of 8 teams, but the top 5 (Japan, China, HK, Kazakhstan and Thailand) are not in the Commonwealth.

[ASMO]

Between NZ and Australia to win then, England should get bronze

[mos_eisely_]

A really interesting thread from York RI Ladies.

[Slick]

A really interesting thread from York RI Ladies.

Yeah, really interesting. That's kind of what I was getting at above, I hadn't heard anything from grassroots players who this is all about really. The message seems to be, it's not perfect but it works, leave us alone. Good enough for me I think.

[tabascoboy]

Results coming in, live(ish) updates at

https://www.birmingham2022.com/schedule/day-by-day

Direct link doesn't seem to work but you can get to the rugby results/scores and filter for womens' only from here

[Niegs]

Results coming in, live(ish) updates at

https://www.birmingham2022.com/schedule/day-by-day

Direct link doesn't seem to work but you can get to the rugby results/scores and filter for womens' only from here

Whoa.... Canada whipped by New Zealand by a margin not dissimilar to Sri Lank v England!

[Lobby]

Results coming in, live(ish) updates at

https://www.birmingham2022.com/schedule/day-by-day

Direct link doesn't seem to work but you can get to the rugby results/scores and filter for womens' only from here

Whoa.... Canada whipped by New Zealand by a margin not dissimilar to Sri Lank v England!

Canada go on to beat England, which probably ends England’s chance of getting out of the group to challenge for a medal. England will have to beat NZ tomorrow to progress (realistically there’s no chance of that happening).

[tabascoboy]

Results coming in, live(ish) updates at

https://www.birmingham2022.com/schedule/day-by-day

Direct link doesn't seem to work but you can get to the rugby results/scores and filter for womens' only from here

Whoa.... Canada whipped by New Zealand by a margin not dissimilar to Sri Lank v England!

Canada go on to beat England, which probably ends England’s chance of getting out of the group to challenge for a medal. England will have to beat NZ tomorrow to progress (realistically there’s no chance of that happening).

Canada v England the only match which hasn't been one-way traffic

[tabascoboy]

Again this morning the games were mostly easily won except for Fiji's victory over Australia. So the semi-finals line up is

New Zealand v Australia
Fiji v Canada

[BnM]

A really interesting thread from York RI Ladies.

Yeah, really interesting. That's kind of what I was getting at above, I hadn't heard anything from grassroots players who this is all about really. The message seems to be, it's not perfect but it works, leave us alone. Good enough for me I think.

We're talking about women's safety and fairness here, a thread on twitter that is incorrect in so many parts shouldn't be enough for you to just dismiss it.
World rugby only banned at international level in 2020 anything below that nothing changed. I'm not kidding it was just international, not even premiership was included.
Most women have 0.5 to 2.4nmol testosterone, anything above 2.5 is considered excessive.
It's only top level rugby you need to suppress your testosterone, There's no requirement below top level unless the groups/clubs demand it.
Puberty cannot be undone, the science and data is there. Around year 3-4 there can be some speed decrease but not always, strength and power still vastly outclasses women. There's loads of quality data done on this. Ross Tucker for one. Joanna Harper too but you need to look at the data not what she says.
There's more than 6 players currently ffs where did that come from, maybe 6 in their club?
You cannot untangle male puberty and testosterone. reducing it is not a magic pill.
Yes different sizes but when it comes to power, men and women overlap on the bell curve 10% ish so top 10% women and bottom 10% men overlap. The big worry is power and strength, testosterone suppression seems to barely touch it and males vastly outclass females in this area
They'll need to eat their scrum caps, the science, there's plenty of it and sport specific, and there's plenty of experts. RFU has been working on this for 2 years it wasn't done on a fag packet by a group of bureaucrats in a room. Experts, and a vote based on evidence.
I'm not saying their opinion shouldn't count, it should, but that thread is wilfully ignorant.
https://twitter.com/Scienceofsport

[BnM]

Just spotted Ross an actual sport scientist specialising in this area did a response. That would have saved me some time

[tabascoboy]

So, Australia v Fiji for Commonwealth Gold. Would be pretty much fairy tale stuff if Fiji won the men's and women's. Canada v New Zealand for bronze

[tabascoboy]

This slipped right under my radar

For the first time since 2018 Japan will line up as a core team when the women’s HSBC World Rugby Sevens Series 2023 gets underway in Dubai on 2 December.

Their place on the Series was confirmed on Sunday when they turned in a highly impressive performance to beat Poland in the World Rugby Sevens Challenger Series 2022 final in Santiago, Chile.

Chiharu Nakamura scored the opening Sakura Sevens try in the 17-0 win, and she summed up the mood in the squad as she was interviewed following the final whistle. “Finally, we’ve done it!” she told viewers.

Nakamura was captain the last time Japan possessed a ticket to every women’s Series event but she proved she is very much part of the team’s present as she worked tirelessly across three intense days at Estadio Santa Laura.

WOMEN’S RECAP
In the opening women’s semi-final in Santiago, Poland found themselves 10-0 down at half-time as China twice crossed the whitewash through Hong Ting Ruan and Xu Xiaoyan.

Malgorzata Koldej started the comeback within a minute of the restart, however, before tries from Katarzyna Paszczyk and Anna Klichowska gave the Rugby Europe Women’s Sevens Championship 2022 winners a seven-point lead.

Koldej then added her second try of the match, and 11th of the tournament, to give Poland a two-score advantage. Zhou Yan crossed for China before the end, but it came too late to prevent a 22-15 defeat.

Japan made sure of their place in the women’s final by beating Kenya by the same score, but the Lionesses ensured the Sakura Sevens had to work hard for victory.

The Sakura Sevens led 17-5 at half-time before Kenya narrowed the deficit to just two points as Laurine Otieno and Janet Okello, for the second time in the match, crossed the whitewash.

It set up a tense finish in Santiago, however, Wakaba Hara had the final say, touching down her hat-trick try to set up a final showdown with Poland.

Japan again started quickly in the final as Nakamura went over in the second minute, after Koldej had done brilliantly to haul Hara down before the line.

The Sakura Sevens were then forced to soak up a period of Polish pressure before a stunning Mei Otani break led to a try for Yume Hirano on the stroke of half-time.

Poland had been here before, in the semi-final, of course but in the final Japan stood firm and another brilliant try, this time scored by Michiyo Suda, put the stamp on a 17-0 win, the title and their place on the 2023 Series.

Meanwhile, China recovered from their semi-final disappointment to exact revenge on Kenya, who beat them on Friday, defeating the Lionesses 31-5 in the bronze final.

Tries from Yan Melling, Sun Yue and Gu Yaoyao put the Chinese 19-0 up at the break and they wrapped up third place with second-half scores from Wang Xiao and another for Yue.

Earlier on Sunday, Kazakhstan beat Belgium 17-5 to take fifth place, Argentina edged Colombia 17-12 for seventh, South Africa ended the weekend with a 29-10 defeat of Chile in the ninth-place play-off and Papua New Guinea won 29-12 against Mexico to claim 11th.

[Gumboot]

The Black Ferns are running rampant against Australia, ahead 26-0 after 35 minutes.

[Gumboot]

33-0 now.

The Professor has this side humming.

[Kiwias]

I had forgotten this was on and just got a link, finding we are now leading 40 - 0