FOSTER - NOW GONE 🎉 - congrats kiwis

[Guy Smiley]

Yes Dan, I’m sure the rest of us have imagined the last few years of poor play, lack of tactics, bad selections and loss of standards while Jason Ryan, having been tapped on the shoulder by NZR in the expectation that he will step up and help the national game at a time of turmoil, would put aside any fear of repercussion should he refuse and joyfully embrace the opportunity to work with a guy who you and you alone are hellbent on defending.

[Kiwias]

As much as I wanted Ryan to tell Foz to go fuck himself and honour his contract with Fiji, I recognise the reality that NZR would retaliate against any coach who did that so with sad heart I wish farewell from the Crusaders with a massive dollop of gratitude for the amazing work he did there.

I wonder if NZR are aware that the quality of the assistant coaches at the Crusaders reflects the quality of the head coach and his ability to create then manage the coaching team. Do they really think that the same structure exists under FFF?

[Dan54]

Yes Dan, I’m sure the rest of us have imagined the last few years of poor play, lack of tactics, bad selections and loss of standards while Jason Ryan, having been tapped on the shoulder by NZR in the expectation that he will step up and help the national game at a time of turmoil, would put aside any fear of repercussion should he refuse and joyfully embrace the opportunity to work with a guy who you and you alone are hellbent on defending.

Mate I not defending Foster, wouldn't worry me if they sacked him at all. I just asking about Jason Ryan, nothing to do with anyone else, and a genuine question for jdogscoop who actually seems to know the man. I am genuinely interested to know if he going into set up he not happy with.
I actually am wondering what players have said in the wash up from Irish series, I have a feeling they big part of review, and I wonder how happy they are.

I guess Ryan will take Plumtree's spot on selection panel, which will hopefully give a fresh prospective.

[Gumboot]

Ryan in. Plumtree and Mooar gone.

Foster, McLeod and Feek somehow survive.

[Guy Smiley]

When you’re hunting scapegoats you take the easy shots down low first.

[Gumboot]

I wonder if we'll see some improved physicality from the forwards now that Plumtree's gone?

[Kiwias]

I wonder if we'll see some improved physicality from the forwards now that Plumtree's gone?

It can't get any worse, right?

[Guy Smiley]

I wonder if we'll see some improved physicality from the forwards now that Plumtree's gone?

That would be priceless.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

Plumtree was a forwards coach for Schmidt, when he was coaching Ireland !

I wouldn't hold Schmidt out as a Messiah for NZ, but there are certainly things he can do, to fix some of the obvious current problems.

He got Ireland's defense, as good as it is, & he is brilliant at providing organization, so players know where to be, & what to do; & also working with the younger players, telling them what they need to work on.

The problem is that he is too OCD, & when it comes to attack, his sides become too predictable, & that was his Ireland teams downfall.

Don't think Leinster did? Always felt he took on the national team job, went through one failed world cup cycle and later adopted a style he thought utilised and complemented Irish player strengths while mitigating any weaknesses. Side effect was a fairly strict gameplan but it won us a slam, a SH series, a repeat defeat of NZ and possibly our best ever RWC showing had tournament been a year earlier.

Farrell & Catt subsequently evolved from there, learning directly from his mistakes but I wonder if removed from top job you'd see the same result here in the short term.

My guess is not, and at any rate Razor would probably be in charge well before that ever came to pass even if it did. You wonder with the political shite whether he'd want top job again, sounds like an effin mare if things turn sour.

Leinster had the Nacewa ace-in-the-hole. Ireland didn't. People forget just how reliant Leinster were on the miracle plays Nacewa used to come up with at a time when BOD and D'Arcy were in decline.

Leinster did pass, a lot, and with purpose. And much of that was inside Nacewa.

It's possible Schmidt is now a man too focussed on pick and go plays and highly detailed strike moves. It's also possible given access to players with a higher starting skillset he wouldn't be so concerned about letting them loose

[Dan54]

I wonder if we'll see some improved physicality from the forwards now that Plumtree's gone?

I would be happy with tighter play by forwards!!! Be a great place to start!

[Certain Navigator]

So what was the Ioane/Marshall incident about?

Two mouthy fucktards colliding like distant galaxies with a massive release of energy and gas the only result.

More accurately, an AB who always gave his absolute guts on the field upbraiding an AB who doesn't know the meaning of the phrase.

[Certain Navigator]

I wonder if we'll see some improved physicality from the forwards now that Plumtree's gone?

Hopefully, but the bigger problem is that the AB backline is totally dysfunctional. And as long as BB stays at 10, it's unlikely to improve, no matter how many coaches are sacked or appointed.

[Gumboot]

I wonder if we'll see some improved physicality from the forwards now that Plumtree's gone?

Hopefully, but the bigger problem is that the AB backline is totally dysfunctional. And as long as BB stays at 10, it's unlikely to improve, no matter how many coaches are sacked or appointed.

I don't think either Barrett or Mo'unga has shown they can play at their best behind the current pack.

[Chilli]

Why all the hatred towards Beauden Barret?
Or is the general feeling that Moanga is just better?

[Gumboot]

Why all the hatred towards Beauden Barret?
Or is the general feeling that Moanga is just better?

Yes. Although he's never actually shown that he's better when given the starts, despite 22 of them.

[Chilli]

Why all the hatred towards Beauden Barret?
Or is the general feeling that Moanga is just better?

Yes. Although he's never actually shown that he's better when given the starts, despite 22 of them.

So it is because he is excellent when playing for an outstanding Crusaders team?

[lemonhead]

Rarely more than one game at a time though. Always seems to rotate straight back out again.

You'd wonder if they really were going to back him would an extended autumn internationals run help - assuming they wouldn't risk during Championship.

[Torquemada 1420]

So what was the Ioane/Marshall incident about?

Two mouthy fucktards colliding like distant galaxies with a massive release of energy and gas the only result.

Whatever, as a commentator on the game, you'd think Marshall would stay out of that stuff. Not likely to endear himself to current pros.

[OomStruisbaai]

Plums available for the $hark$ again

[Grandpa]

I think people are forgetting the elephant in the room... Foster may be stealing Razor's assistants... but Foster is still in charge... so not a lot will change...

[Ymx]

I think people are forgetting the elephant in the room... Foster may be stealing Razor's assistants... but Foster is still in charge... so not a lot will change...

I’m not sure about that. I’d say as part of it Fozzie will be less hands on, or more ignored, and this might provide a boost to the team.

[Grandpa]

I think people are forgetting the elephant in the room... Foster may be stealing Razor's assistants... but Foster is still in charge... so not a lot will change...

I’m not sure about that. I’d say as part of it Fozzie will be less hands on, or more ignored, and this might provide a boost to the team.

He's taking over as attack coach now Brad Mooar has left...

[Ymx]

Foster the attack coach … I heard that right….

[Guy Smiley]

I think people are forgetting the elephant in the room... Foster may be stealing Razor's assistants... but Foster is still in charge... so not a lot will change...

I’m not sure about that. I’d say as part of it Fozzie will be less hands on, or more ignored, and this might provide a boost to the team.

Foster is being indulged by NZR at this stage. Throwing Ryan into it is messy as he isn’t Foster’s pick, otherwise he’d have been approached before now, so while NZR are giving Foster every chance when others may have been let go, they’ve mishandled that by adding a potentially disruptive influence… and while Ryan is no doubt a professional who will go about his task he’s going to be compromised in how much he can do by having to jump into someone else’s set up under a coach he may not have planned on working for.



It’s another serving of Dog’s Breakfast from K9 Control.

[Gumboot]

Why all the hatred towards Beauden Barret?
Or is the general feeling that Moanga is just better?

Yes. Although he's never actually shown that he's better when given the starts, despite 22 of them.

So it is because he is excellent when playing for an outstanding Crusaders team?

That, and he usually goes well against Australia, who we play more often than other test sides.

[convoluted]

... I wonder if NZR are aware that the quality of the assistant coaches at the Crusaders reflects the quality of (Scott Robertson) and his ability to create then manage the coaching team. Do they really think that the same structure exists under FFF?

Given that that Ryan was Robertson's nominee for forwards coach had he been given the AB coaching position, this appointment is a halfway concession by the NZRU that they may have messed up.

And regardless of how the tests go in South Africa, I'd totally love to eavesdrop on the private Ryan-Robertson conversation once the ABs return home.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all ... ards-coach

[Gumboot]

Thank god there's no chance of Plumtree ever succeeding Foster now. If Ryan throws his hat in the ring one day, will he nominate Razor to be one of his assistants?

[Dan54]

Plums available for the $hark$ again

Didn't thay sack him a few years back?

[Dan54]

Thank god there's no chance of Plumtree ever succeeding Foster now. If Ryan throws his hat in the ring one day, will he nominate Razor to be one of his assistants?

I reckon this is helping set up fot Razor , when he get's the gig after WC, he will have Ryan already with experience etc there with him. I know there is a strong dislike for having plans in place and coaches seemingly having inside running, but I think there is a fairly big hint in Rangi getting the ABs XV, he is seen as someone who will go somewhere to, and will get an assistant gig with Razor, or if Razor didn't stand would get the head job?

[Dan54]

I think people are forgetting the elephant in the room... Foster may be stealing Razor's assistants... but Foster is still in charge... so not a lot will change...

I’m not sure about that. I’d say as part of it Fozzie will be less hands on, or more ignored, and this might provide a boost to the team.

Foster is being indulged by NZR at this stage. Throwing Ryan into it is messy as he isn’t Foster’s pick, otherwise he’d have been approached before now, so while NZR are giving Foster every chance when others may have been let go, they’ve mishandled that by adding a potentially disruptive influence… and while Ryan is no doubt a professional who will go about his task he’s going to be compromised in how much he can do by having to jump into someone else’s set up under a coach he may not have planned on working for.



It’s another serving of Dog’s Breakfast from K9 Control.

How do you know Ryan isn't Foster's pick? I would bet after talking with senior players group and suggestion from Sam W etc would have had a lot to do with it. I can see it being a good pick as apart from Conventry there doesn't seem to be a lot of highly thought of forward coaches . I also think it a bit of forward planning Ryan already in place to have a bit of continuity when Razor gets gig in 2024, Leon doing the ABs XV so working with a few players that will be coming in , before he gets a gig as assistant (at least)

[Gumboot]

Thank god there's no chance of Plumtree ever succeeding Foster now. If Ryan throws his hat in the ring one day, will he nominate Razor to be one of his assistants?

I reckon this is helping set up fot Razor , when he get's the gig after WC, he will have Ryan already with experience etc there with him. I know there is a strong dislike for having plans in place and coaches seemingly having inside running, but I think there is a fairly big hint in Rangi getting the ABs XV, he is seen as someone who will go somewhere to, and will get an assistant gig with Razor, or if Razor didn't stand would get the head job?

Yeah, my question was just tongue in cheek really. I'd be delighted if Razor and/or Rangi are being lined up for the gig after the RWC. Would be a huge improvement on NZR's likely Foster > Plumtree/Mooar/McLeod succession plan of two weeks ago. Fingers crossed!

[Dan54]

Thank god there's no chance of Plumtree ever succeeding Foster now. If Ryan throws his hat in the ring one day, will he nominate Razor to be one of his assistants?

I reckon this is helping set up fot Razor , when he get's the gig after WC, he will have Ryan already with experience etc there with him. I know there is a strong dislike for having plans in place and coaches seemingly having inside running, but I think there is a fairly big hint in Rangi getting the ABs XV, he is seen as someone who will go somewhere to, and will get an assistant gig with Razor, or if Razor didn't stand would get the head job?

Yeah, my question was just tongue in cheek really. I'd be delighted if Razor and/or Rangi are being lined up for the gig after the RWC. Would be a huge improvement on NZR's likely Foster > Plumtree/Mooar/McLeod succession plan of two weeks ago. Fingers crossed!

I don't think Plumtree was ever really in picture anyway, but the fact that NZR signed Razor up to a contract screamed to me that they got him lined up for the job.

[Guy Smiley]

NZR signed Razor up and then went out and extended Foster’s contract just after that…

after a terrible year for the ABs.

I don’t really think that suggests they had Razor ‘lined up for the job’. They just made sure he couldn’t take another one.

[OomStruisbaai]

Plums available for the $hark$ again

Didn't thay sack him a few years back?

John Smit fired him by default.

[Ymx]

https://www.planetrugby.com/scott-rober ... s-meeting/


Robertson has lost patience waiting

Scott Robertson: Crusaders coach reveals reason for Eddie Jones meeting
Date published: July 26 2022 - Dylan Coetzee

Crusaders coach Scott Robertson has explained why he met up with England coach Eddie Jones in Australia before the third Test against the Wallabies and outlined his ambitions for the future.

Robertson has been a name in the mix to succeed Jones, but it may be unlikely, with the Rugby Football Union claiming earlier this year that an Englishman would be preferred.

Options open

The 47-year-old realised after not being selected as All Blacks coach that it is important to keep options open and acknowledged that he cannot stay at the Crusaders forever.

“ Look, I caught up with Eddie but it wasn’t anything to do with the job, it was more, well he texted me. We have a good relationship and he is always watching rugby and stuff, so I just caught up with him briefly and had a chat,” Robertson said on the Big Jim Show.

“My best mate lives over there and I went to the game with him, took the wife over, and it was just a great experience, it was good to get away to Sydney for the weekend.

“Look, what I learned from last time, especially around the All Blacks stuff, is you have to keep your options open. It’s a professional game and I’m probably a little more clearly focused.

“It’s one job (All Blacks coach) and when someone doesn’t give it to you you have to think differently, what opportunities are out there? I’ll be coming into my seventh year as the Crusaders coach next year, I have loved it all, it has been incredible but no one last in a job forever so I am open. It’s probably the way I can answer it.

“If New Zealand Rugby want me, great. If there is another club, country, probably country, I wouldn’t go to a club now. I really want to go Rugby World Cup, I genuinely want to go to a couple.

“I’m 47, I’ll be 52 by the time the next Rugby World Cup comes around (Australia 2027 after France next year). I want to get to two or three and test myself, push myself. I am open (to offers), yeah.”

Huge ambition

Robertson showed huge ambition as he outlined a goal to win the World Cup with two different countries.

“I want to win Rugby World Cup but I want to win it with two different countries. I haven’t said it publicly before but it would transcend,” he said.

“It would be great to win a World Cup with your own country which I want to do, that is the foremost thing, but I would love to do it with another country. I’m not sure what order it is. I’m not sure how that plays out, those decisions are not mine. They are somebody else’s decisions but I would love to win two and have a different expectation, different culture.

“You have got to adapt to the country that you are coaching and get the best out of them. It’s when someone goes, ‘How did he do that? That is pretty special. He won seven championships with his club and then gone away and done that’. People will go, ‘Okay, he has got the group, the players will play for him’.”

[Raggs]

Well that's a definite "Come and get me boys!"

Or, it's a big message to NZRU to get him signed up after this world cup.

How long is Fosters contract? Is it beyond the world cup?

[Ymx]

Well that's a definite "Come and get me boys!"

Or, it's a big message to NZRU to get him signed up after this world cup.

How long is Fosters contract? Is it beyond the world cup?

It’s certainly an open door.

Foster contracted til next year. But that’s too long. Well tomorrow is too long to be honest.

[convoluted]

I've mentioned before how it could be said that it was Graham Henry who ultimately spiked Robertson.
Henry was the only actual coach or former coach on the panel of half a dozen or so who adjudged between Foster and Robertson, and as such his say would have carried most weight.

Should Henry have even been on the panel? Would he decide in the best interests of NZ Rugby or would he want a continuation of the 'dynasty' he had founded? Would he harbor fears that that legacy might well be swept away and forgotten almost overnight should Robertson excel? And during the interview would the youthful exuberance of Robertson automatically grate the gravitas of the septuagenarian Henry?

[Guy Smiley]

I've mentioned before how it could be said that it was Graham Henry who ultimately spiked Robertson.
Henry was the only actual coach or former coach on the panel of half a dozen or so who adjudged between Foster and Robertson, and as such his say would have carried most weight.

Should Henry have even been on the panel? Would he decide in the best interests of NZ Rugby or would he want a continuation of the 'dynasty' he had founded? Would he harbor fears that that legacy might well be swept away and forgotten almost overnight should Robertson excel? And during the interview would the youthful exuberance of Robertson automatically grate the gravitas of the septuagenarian Henry?

You’re trying to create a narrative based on a thought you had. There’s no substance behind this.


The reality is that NZR have backed themselves in with a coach who has no outstanding qualities for the job and appears to be a leading symbol of the complacent club of ‘good blokes’ that run the game here. Contrasting this is the extremely likely possibility that they will lose the best coach the country has produced for some time.

That is where we are at right now and it’s likely we’re going to see the first serious, long term slump in All Black rugby performance as a result.

[Ymx]

I thought I heard Henry interview to say Foster was the wrong choice. But think he was suggesting Rennie.

Edit: here’s a link

https://www.rugby.com.au/news/2020/10/1 ... ian-foster