Stop voting for fucking Tories

[fishfoodie]

LT has promised- fwiw - to guarantee every A* A-level pupil an Oxbridge interview. Apart from the practical problems it’s depressing that they’re regarded as the peak of aspiration. Why not Imperial College for example?

How are they going to get on the PPE-MP-Minister pathway if they study something stupid like Chemistry, or Medicine?

Or, God help us, study English or History elsewhere (if they can find a place given the horrible attitude that this Government has to the arts).

A* is far too bright to be going into PPE !

There's a real danger they might actually be capable of independent thought, & wouldn't just brainlessly regurgitate the Party dogma

[Ymx]

Rishi Sunak promises biggest income tax cut in 30 years

Former chancellor vows to slash basic rate from 20pc to 16pc, as he fights to overcome Liz Truss’s lead in Tory leadership contest

Rishi Sunak has promised the biggest income tax cut in 30 years, vowing to slash the basic rate from 20 per cent to 16 per cent if he becomes prime minister.

In a major announcement as he battles to close the gap to frontrunner Liz Truss, the former chancellor pledged to deliver the change by the end of the next parliament.

move would mean millions of households paying a fifth less in income tax. Someone earning the average UK salary of £32,000 would save about £777 under the plans.
Mr Sunak’s campaign argued that the move was consistent with his previous stances, given the tax cut would only be adopted once inflation drops and would not be funded by borrowing.

But a Truss campaign source dubbed the move a “flip-flop” aimed at winning votes from Tory members, after three weeks of fiercely criticising his rivals for promising major tax cuts.

Mr Sunak said: “What I’m putting to people today is a vision to deliver the biggest income tax cut since Margaret Thatcher’s government.

“It is a radical vision but it is also a realistic one and there are some core principles that I’m simply not prepared to compromise on, whatever the prize.”

But Simon Clarke, the Chief Secretary to the Treasury, who is backing Ms Truss and held his post under Mr Sunak, countered: “Liz will cut taxes in seven weeks, not seven years.”

Postal ballots in the race to replace Boris Johnson as Conservative Party leader and prime minister start being sent out on Monday, giving Tory members the chance to vote early in the race before the result is announced on Sept 5.

The campaign battle so far has been dominated by differences on economic approach between Mr Sunak and Ms Truss, the Foreign Secretary – most notably on taxation.

This is after him saying it’s not economically viable to cut taxes.

Not exactly consistent after what he was saying in the leadership debate, that he wouldn’t anything right now, and discrediting the others for saying they would.

[Raggs]

So he'll cut taxes after inflation has stopped? So once everyone has already been struggling for years then?

[I like neeps]

So he'll cut taxes after inflation has stopped? So once everyone has already been struggling for years then?

It is quite funny that the Tories talk about Margaret Thatcher approximately 50 times a day and are about to vote for someone whose economic policy is become Japan over Sunak.

[Crash669]

LT has promised- fwiw - to guarantee every A* A-level pupil an Oxbridge interview. Apart from the practical problems it’s depressing that they’re regarded as the peak of aspiration. Why not Imperial College for example?

Having working in admissions for Oxford I can guarantee that's something that will never happen.

Aside from the fair point you make about the other excellent UK universities being insulted by it, the Oxbridge colleges will just say no. Tutors would have to start doing interviews in October and do nothing else till about March.

[GogLais]

Another little gem in the ST - Kwarteng had let his party membership lapse as did Johnson when he was Foreign Secretary. Allegedly. Have these people not heard of direct debits or alternatively have people to do these things for them?

[sefton]

I’m as anti-Tory as any in here but other than Paddington and C69 there is barely a proper right-winger in here, it’s a bit of an echo chamber.

[GogLais]

I’m as anti-Tory as any in here but other than Paddington and C69 there is barely a proper right-winger in here, it’s a bit of an echo chamber.

I did wonder about voting Conservative once, I don’t know if that counts.

[sefton]

I’m as anti-Tory as any in here but other than Paddington and C69 there is barely a proper right-winger in here, it’s a bit of an echo chamber.

I did wonder about voting Conservative once, I don’t know if that counts.

That makes you a proto-fascist in my world.

[Slick]

This is after him saying it’s not economically viable to cut taxes.

Not exactly consistent after what he was saying in the leadership debate, that he wouldn’t anything right now, and discrediting the others for saying they would.

It's really quite depressing. I kind of had has the closest to an adult in the room, but no, it's all about winning power like the rest

[JM2K6]

I’m as anti-Tory as any in here but other than Paddington and C69 there is barely a proper right-winger in here, it’s a bit of an echo chamber.

Why does that matter? There's a few actual wingnuts who are very right wing and their posts are largely disingenuous conspiracy shit, what are we losing?

"Traditional" conservatives are probably appalled by the current shower of shit. If the Tories were actually competent, hadn't lurched to the right, and had pulled back on austerity, I don't doubt a percentage of the people in this thread putting the boot into them would be cheering them on and putting the boot into the opposition instead. It's not like it's a board full of lefties.

[GogLais]

I’m as anti-Tory as any in here but other than Paddington and C69 there is barely a proper right-winger in here, it’s a bit of an echo chamber.

I did wonder about voting Conservative once, I don’t know if that counts.

That makes you a proto-fascist in my world.

I heard Cameron speak on the Wirral in the 2000s when he was running for the leadership and was very impressed. There was at least a small chance I might have voted for him in 2010 but somebody like Christine Hamilton came out with some racist bollox and I thought no. Also the Tory candidate was an estate agent.

[GogLais]

By the way was Christine Hamilton the thinking man’s Nadine Dorries?

[Torquemada 1420]

LT has promised- fwiw - to guarantee every A* A-level pupil an Oxbridge interview. Apart from the practical problems it’s depressing that they’re regarded as the peak of aspiration. Why not Imperial College for example?

Given that the whole system has been so watered down, I doubt Oxbridge could hold every A* pupil.

But your point stands. I'd pick Imperial for sciences and LSE for economics/politics as examples over Oxbridge any day academically. Of course, location wise...........

[I like neeps]

Shadow cabinet members on picket lines today include Lisa Nandy... Oh dear, Keir.

[Torquemada 1420]

I’m as anti-Tory as any in here but other than Paddington and C69 there is barely a proper right-winger in here, it’s a bit of an echo chamber.

You omitted OS.

[robmatic]

I’m as anti-Tory as any in here but other than Paddington and C69 there is barely a proper right-winger in here, it’s a bit of an echo chamber.

Why does that matter? There's a few actual wingnuts who are very right wing and their posts are largely disingenuous conspiracy shit, what are we losing?

"Traditional" conservatives are probably appalled by the current shower of shit. If the Tories were actually competent, hadn't lurched to the right, and had pulled back on austerity, I don't doubt a percentage of the people in this thread putting the boot into them would be cheering them on and putting the boot into the opposition instead. It's not like it's a board full of lefties.

I'm probably one of those centrist types who isn't automatically against the Tories (I used to subscribe to the Spectator before it went fash-y) but the current government is comfortably the worst in terms of competence and character that I can remember.

Away from the board, my brother is a sheep farmer with a degree in economics so probably more inclined to conservatism than most and even he's staunchly against the Tories now.

[C69]

I’m as anti-Tory as any in here but other than Paddington and C69 there is barely a proper right-winger in here, it’s a bit of an echo chamber.

You omitted OS.

I am very much a singular voice in the Anarcho Syndicalist section of the new inclusive local Tory Party.
I do however also have a fabulous lanscaped garden with a beautiful lawn, summer house and BBQ patio area.

[GogLais]

I’m as anti-Tory as any in here but other than Paddington and C69 there is barely a proper right-winger in here, it’s a bit of an echo chamber.

You omitted OS.

I am very much a singular voice in the Anarcho Syndicalist section of the new inclusive local Tory Party.
I do however also have a fabulous lanscaped garden with a beautiful lawn, summer house and BBQ patio area.

Red trousers in the wash?

[petej]

I’m as anti-Tory as any in here but other than Paddington and C69 there is barely a proper right-winger in here, it’s a bit of an echo chamber.

I did wonder about voting Conservative once, I don’t know if that counts.

I would have voted for Rory Stewart over Jeremy Corbyn.

[shaggy]

I’m as anti-Tory as any in here but other than Paddington and C69 there is barely a proper right-winger in here, it’s a bit of an echo chamber.

You omitted OS.

I am very much a singular voice in the Anarcho Syndicalist section of the new inclusive local Tory Party.
I do however also have a fabulous lanscaped garden with a beautiful lawn, summer house and BBQ patio area.

You have a lawn? I have something approaching a desert at the moment.

[Hal Jordan]

Shadow cabinet members on picket lines today include Lisa Nandy... Oh dear, Keir.

Every time the Tories hand Labour a loaded gun and tie themselves to a chair, Labour decide that the best course of action is to blow their own foot off.

[C69]

You omitted OS.

I am very much a singular voice in the Anarcho Syndicalist section of the new inclusive local Tory Party.
I do however also have a fabulous lanscaped garden with a beautiful lawn, summer house and BBQ patio area.

You have a lawn? I have something approaching a desert at the moment.

I have a lush green lawn tbh. The great heatwave lasted all of 2 days here

[C69]

Shadow cabinet members on picket lines today include Lisa Nandy... Oh dear, Keir.

Every time the Tories hand Labour a loaded gun and tie themselves to a chair, Labour decide that the best course of action is to blow their own foot off.

Loads of Labour MPs have been on picket lines.

[Torquemada 1420]

Shadow cabinet members on picket lines today include Lisa Nandy... Oh dear, Keir.

Every time the Tories hand Labour a loaded gun and tie themselves to a chair, Labour decide that the best course of action is to blow their own foot off.

Agreed. It reminds me of the Python "Upper Class Twit of the Year Comp"

[GogLais]

Shadow cabinet members on picket lines today include Lisa Nandy... Oh dear, Keir.

Visited her constituents who were on a picket line apparently.

[petej]

Shadow cabinet members on picket lines today include Lisa Nandy... Oh dear, Keir.

Every time the Tories hand Labour a loaded gun and tie themselves to a chair, Labour decide that the best course of action is to blow their own foot off.

Loads of Labour MPs have been on picket lines.

I thought the issue was that the fired guy didn't discuss it with rest of the shadow cabinet first and did a leeroy Jenkins. I doubt Nandy would do that.

[I like neeps]

Every time the Tories hand Labour a loaded gun and tie themselves to a chair, Labour decide that the best course of action is to blow their own foot off.

Loads of Labour MPs have been on picket lines.

I thought the issue was that the fired guy didn't discuss it with rest of the shadow cabinet first and did a leeroy Jenkins. I doubt Nandy would do that.

Starmer said at the time a serious party of government doesn't support strikers....

[JM2K6]

Loads of Labour MPs have been on picket lines.

I thought the issue was that the fired guy didn't discuss it with rest of the shadow cabinet first and did a leeroy Jenkins. I doubt Nandy would do that.

Starmer said at the time a serious party of government doesn't support strikers....

Well, that's also untrue. David Lammy said a serious party of government doesn't join picket lines.

[I like neeps]

I thought the issue was that the fired guy didn't discuss it with rest of the shadow cabinet first and did a leeroy Jenkins. I doubt Nandy would do that.

Starmer said at the time a serious party of government doesn't support strikers....

Well, that's also untrue. David Lammy said a serious party of government doesn't join picket lines.

I see you follow Keir Starmers definition of truth:

The day before, Starmer said: “The Labour Party in opposition needs to be the Labour party in power and a government doesn’t go on picket lines.”
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/ ... d8d84156b1

I guess Starmer has realised he's not PM material and given up on this one. Or just lied again. Who is to say.

[JM2K6]

What Starmer has actually said rather than the made-up stuff people come out with:

Keir Starmer has said Labour must move from being a “party of protest” to one that can win an election in order to help working people.

The party’s leader said he supports the right to strike, pointing to his pro-bono work as a lawyer representing striking miners instead of “just sentiment and a photo op”.

Rail services around Great Britain were severely disrupted on Saturday by the most widespread strike by train drivers since rail privatisation in 1996. Members of the Aslef union stopped work for 24 hours at seven train operators.

It comes as Starmer seeks to defuse a row with unions and the left of his party over his decision to sack Sam Tarry as transport minister after he gave broadcast interviews from a picket line.

Starmer, who previously banned frontbenchers from joining strikers on picket lines, said he fired Tarry after he booked himself on media programmes without permission and made up policy “on the hoof”, in defiance of the party’s “collective responsibility”.

In an article in the Sunday Mirror, Starmer emphasised his immediate focus on getting his party into power, with a Labour government then able to deliver change for unions and working people.

He wrote: “I completely understand why people are going on strike to secure better pay and better conditions. I support their right to do so.

“When I was a lawyer, I represented striking miners for free. Not just sentiment and a photo op. I backed up my words with action.

“I am now leading a Labour party that wants to change lives and give Britain the fresh start it needs. That means turning from a party of protest into a party that can win power"

[JM2K6]

Starmer said at the time a serious party of government doesn't support strikers....

Well, that's also untrue. David Lammy said a serious party of government doesn't join picket lines.

I see you follow Keir Starmers definition of truth:

The day before, Starmer said: “The Labour Party in opposition needs to be the Labour party in power and a government doesn’t go on picket lines.”
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/ ... d8d84156b1

I guess Starmer has realised he's not PM material and given up on this one. Or just lied again. Who is to say.

Well fuck, consider me corrected. It didn't cross my mind that Lammy would parrot him.

However: there's a huge difference between "a serious party of government doesn't support strikers" and "a government doesn't go on picket lines". I support the strikers. I'm not on a picket line.

[sefton]

You omitted OS.

I am very much a singular voice in the Anarcho Syndicalist section of the new inclusive local Tory Party.
I do however also have a fabulous lanscaped garden with a beautiful lawn, summer house and BBQ patio area.

You have a lawn? I have something approaching a desert at the moment.

He has the help water it by hand.

[I like neeps]

Well, that's also untrue. David Lammy said a serious party of government doesn't join picket lines.

I see you follow Keir Starmers definition of truth:

The day before, Starmer said: “The Labour Party in opposition needs to be the Labour party in power and a government doesn’t go on picket lines.”
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/ ... d8d84156b1

I guess Starmer has realised he's not PM material and given up on this one. Or just lied again. Who is to say.

Well fuck, consider me corrected. It didn't cross my mind that Lammy would parrot him.

However: there's a huge difference between "a serious party of government doesn't support strikers" and "a government doesn't go on picket lines". I support the strikers. I'm not on a picket line.

Maybe you should join the picket lines and show this support.

Anyhow, what's happened is Starmer tried to appear tough and took a "Prime Ministerial" stance. Got called out and swiftly retreated. I didn't realise when Starmer said he was Prime Ministerial what he meant was following on from Johnson's take one position one week and the opposite opinion the next.

[robmatic]

Starmer said at the time a serious party of government doesn't support strikers....

Well, that's also untrue. David Lammy said a serious party of government doesn't join picket lines.

I see you follow Keir Starmers definition of truth:

The day before, Starmer said: “The Labour Party in opposition needs to be the Labour party in power and a government doesn’t go on picket lines.”
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/ ... d8d84156b1

I guess Starmer has realised he's not PM material and given up on this one. Or just lied again. Who is to say.

I think Labour do have to be reasonably pragmatic about strikes though. Unions only represent a minority of workers (and the working class) and even when people are generally supportive of strike action they are less sympathetic when it affects the services that they receive. The median voter will think unions are important and think workers should have more rights but either not think that strikes are effective or just not like the inconvenience.

[I like neeps]

Well, that's also untrue. David Lammy said a serious party of government doesn't join picket lines.

I see you follow Keir Starmers definition of truth:

The day before, Starmer said: “The Labour Party in opposition needs to be the Labour party in power and a government doesn’t go on picket lines.”
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/ ... d8d84156b1

I guess Starmer has realised he's not PM material and given up on this one. Or just lied again. Who is to say.

I think Labour do have to be reasonably pragmatic about strikes though. Unions only represent a minority of workers (and the working class) and even when people are generally supportive of strike action they are less sympathetic when it affects the services that they receive. The median voter will think unions are important and think workers should have more rights but either not think that strikes are effective or just not like the inconvenience.

I think two points - yes unions represent a tiny minority but they're also 55% of labours funding. The membership under Starmer and therefore membership fees have been declining. And he courted big business but they won't ever fund labour to the extent the Tories get funding from them. So it's a huge problem if he pisses them off.

And secondly, I think the median voter appreciates every service offering is getting worse and more expensive but nobody is getting a payrise for the wage spiral. So will be more forgiving. It's notable the press have tried to whip up anti union hysteria the last few weeks. But pretty much completely failed.

[Paddington Bear]

The problem of course Starmer recognises with the shadow cabinet joining picket lines is a number of the reasons for these strikes won't disappear as soon as there is not a Tory government and they could prove to be incredibly embarrassing photo ops in the early years of his government.

[JM2K6]

I see you follow Keir Starmers definition of truth:

The day before, Starmer said: “The Labour Party in opposition needs to be the Labour party in power and a government doesn’t go on picket lines.”
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/ ... d8d84156b1

I guess Starmer has realised he's not PM material and given up on this one. Or just lied again. Who is to say.

Well fuck, consider me corrected. It didn't cross my mind that Lammy would parrot him.

However: there's a huge difference between "a serious party of government doesn't support strikers" and "a government doesn't go on picket lines". I support the strikers. I'm not on a picket line.

Maybe you should join the picket lines and show this support.

Anyhow, what's happened is Starmer tried to appear tough and took a "Prime Ministerial" stance. Got called out and swiftly retreated. I didn't realise when Starmer said he was Prime Ministerial what he meant was following on from Johnson's take one position one week and the opposite opinion the next.

How did he retreat? How has his position changed?

[petej]

The problem of course Starmer recognises with the shadow cabinet joining picket lines is a number of the reasons for these strikes won't disappear as soon as there is not a Tory government and they could prove to be incredibly embarrassing photo ops in the early years of his government.

Indeed. Another point is the unions are quite capable of speaking for themselves. I don't think a shadow cabinet minister would have done better than the union leaders.

[I like neeps]

Well fuck, consider me corrected. It didn't cross my mind that Lammy would parrot him.

However: there's a huge difference between "a serious party of government doesn't support strikers" and "a government doesn't go on picket lines". I support the strikers. I'm not on a picket line.

Maybe you should join the picket lines and show this support.

Anyhow, what's happened is Starmer tried to appear tough and took a "Prime Ministerial" stance. Got called out and swiftly retreated. I didn't realise when Starmer said he was Prime Ministerial what he meant was following on from Johnson's take one position one week and the opposite opinion the next.

How did he retreat? How has his position changed?

Because shadow ministers are on picket lines and he's allowing it. Last week he was not and made statements to that effect.