UK Home energy prices

[Masterji]

Party time is over. I can remember working in nuclear and having a right laugh with a colleague about how in the shit we would be in 10 years (and how stupid Germany was to shutdown nuclear power plants) now it is 9 years later. Wasn't difficult to look at expected generating plant life for nuclear and coal plants and other UK generating assets and to look at build timeliness. Also most assets were state built. Dungeness being shut down early was interesting as other AGR's have been life extended but output has been dropping as the asset has degraded and also become less reliable. UK gas storage facility being closed was a dense decision.

I had so much faith in the government on power that the first thing I did to the property I brought was cram as many solar panels on roof as possible, followed by improving the insulation and finally getting a house battery.

I don't get angry at politics all that often, but the gas storage decision is a time I did (didn't follow it at the time, was genuinely astonished reading it recently). What minister/civil servant/anyone signed off on that?

For the sake of saving £75m a year for 10 years! Not sure who signed it off, searching just says "ministers", but there is this...

In 2013, the then energy minister Michael Fallon said the decision to allow Rough to close would save the UK £750m over 10 years. Instead, a diverse range of energy sources would ensure the public received “reliable supplies of electricity and gas at minimum cost”.

And if things turned out differently everyone would be asking why £750mn was wasted.

[fishfoodie]

I don't get angry at politics all that often, but the gas storage decision is a time I did (didn't follow it at the time, was genuinely astonished reading it recently). What minister/civil servant/anyone signed off on that?

For the sake of saving £75m a year for 10 years! Not sure who signed it off, searching just says "ministers", but there is this...

In 2013, the then energy minister Michael Fallon said the decision to allow Rough to close would save the UK £750m over 10 years. Instead, a diverse range of energy sources would ensure the public received “reliable supplies of electricity and gas at minimum cost”.

And if things turned out differently everyone would be asking why £750mn was wasted.

How many billions have you spent on Polaris, & Trident ?

Do the Tories regularly get pilloried because they spent all that money, & they haven't nuked anyone yet ?

.... or do they explain that they spent the money so that if the need ever arrived, they weren't just left holding the dicks in their hands !

The Governments own experts predicted a pandemic as the most likely crisis scenario facing the UK .... & the Tories ignored it, & did nothing !

I'd lay good money, that there's a report lying in a drawer in Whitehall, that lays out in gory details the consequences of any disruption of Russian gas, & points out that its a Country ruled by a Dictator, & how such a scenario is far from unlikely.

Let's stop pretending any of this shit was unforeseen, & unlikely.

[Biffer]

20 million households in UK. Subsidy of £400 for each would cost £8billion.

Comoanies have been announcing profits of £4-6billion for a quarter.

The answer seems fairly obvioua

[Slick]

Has anyone used Utility Warehouse for energy?

Just moved into a new place and trying to find a supplier. Apparently this lot are more expensive by a long way in normal times (they bring costs down by trying to bundle you up with internet, phone etc, but we have all that) but at the moment are relatively good value.

Or doesn't it matter very much at the moment and just go with the easy Scottish Power option

[tabascoboy]

Warning energy prices to hit over £4,200 in January

Energy bills will hit £4,266 for a typical household by January next year, warns consultancy Cornwall Insight.

That's a rise of £650 for households in England, Scotland and Wales compared with its estimate just last week.

Cornwall cited regulator Ofgem's decision to change the price cap every three months instead of six and higher wholesale prices for the sharp jump.

The warning comes as the government rejects calls for further help on bills until a new prime minister is in place.

In its latest report, Cornwall has also increased its forecast for this autumn's typical domestic energy bills to £3,582, up from its previous prediction of £3,358.

The latest price cap - the maximum amount suppliers can charge customers for average energy usage in England, Scotland and Wales for October - is due to be announced at the end of this month.

Dr Craig Lowrey, principal consultant at Cornwall said its price cap forecasts had been steadily rising but the big jump in its forecasts comes as "a fresh shock".

"The cost-of-living crisis was already top of the news agenda as more and more people face fuel poverty, this will only compound the concerns."

[Paddington Bear]

I wonder to what extent consumer demand will self-regulate at these prices?

[GogLais]

I wonder to what extent consumer demand will self-regulate at these prices?

Certainly has in this household, I’ve just done a lightbulb audit. And I don’t always practise what I preach but driving a bit more slowly makes a significant difference, air resistance being proportional to the square of the speed. Well I think that’s what I was told fifty years ago.

[vball]

After reading the news today, I checked the price of heating oil and coal.
Oil has doubled in the year but coal only up by a couple of pounds per bag.
Luckily I have a lot of trees on the croft that I can cut into logs if needed (they have been down for many years so will be seasoned) and many more that I can fell if needed.

Will need to look out the fingerless gloves though.

[SaintK]

........and it's only going to get worse!!!
WTAF are this shower of shit of a government doing?

[GogLais]

Is there a danger when it’s constantly referred to as a price cap? It isn’t of course, it’s just an estimate of what heating and lighting a house will cost at the capped unit rates.

[Glaston]

........and it's only going to get worse!!!
WTAF are this shower of shit of a government doing?

Feargal Sharkey uses a hell of a lot of gas.

[Glaston]

20 million households in UK. Subsidy of £400 for each would cost £8billion.

Comoanies have been announcing profits of £4-6billion for a quarter.

The answer seems fairly obvioua

Are you referring to BP/Shell?

If so they actually make the majority of their profit outside the UK.
Does that make the answer obvious? I don't think so.

[GogLais]

20 million households in UK. Subsidy of £400 for each would cost £8billion.

Comoanies have been announcing profits of £4-6billion for a quarter.

The answer seems fairly obvioua

Are you referring to BP/Shell?

If so they actually make the majority of their profit outside the UK.
Does that make the answer obvious? I don't think so.

I’m not necessarily advocating it but couldn’t they run at a loss on the UK for at least a short length of time?

[Biffer]

........and it's only going to get worse!!!
WTAF are this shower of shit of a government doing?

Feargal Sharkey uses a hell of a lot of gas.

28,000 kWh of gas use is pretty startlingly large.

[Paddington Bear]

I wonder to what extent consumer demand will self-regulate at these prices?

Certainly has in this household, I’ve just done a lightbulb audit. And I don’t always practise what I preach but driving a bit more slowly makes a significant difference, air resistance being proportional to the square of the speed. Well I think that’s what I was told fifty years ago.

Yeah I know everyone's different but at these prices we're already being much more cautious about energy usage, and will definitely use the absolute bare minimum amount of heating we can get away with, I'm sure this will be reasonably common.

[tabascoboy]

I wonder to what extent consumer demand will self-regulate at these prices?

Certainly has in this household, I’ve just done a lightbulb audit. And I don’t always practise what I preach but driving a bit more slowly makes a significant difference, air resistance being proportional to the square of the speed. Well I think that’s what I was told fifty years ago.

Yeah I know everyone's different but at these prices we're already being much more cautious about energy usage, and will definitely use the absolute bare minimum amount of heating we can get away with, I'm sure this will be reasonably common.

Already did that last winter - which was actually pretty mild. Bill for gas only, generally 2 - 3 hours/day average for Dec - Jan - Feb was under £200 in total and house never really got warmer than 19 - 20 °C briefly at the highest in any one room. That was with a very favourable fixed rate for one year from March 2021 and a single occupier of a not well insulated old house at ~ 10 000 kw/h per year. Plus, Feb and March were very sunny which helped warm up the south facing rooms.

Can't imagine using less than that ( there's only so many clothes you can wear without being immobile ), so expecting to triple that sum and worse if it's a cold winter this time. Nonetheless hoping to keep the yearly bill around £1500 and a low consumer of electricity at ~1000 kw/h per year so hopefully below £1 000. Even so that's totalling £2 500 around 20 - 25% of my admittedly low occupational pension income, so how families will manage is beyond me since I least can delve into substantial savings.

[vball]

Certainly has in this household, I’ve just done a lightbulb audit. And I don’t always practise what I preach but driving a bit more slowly makes a significant difference, air resistance being proportional to the square of the speed. Well I think that’s what I was told fifty years ago.

Yeah I know everyone's different but at these prices we're already being much more cautious about energy usage, and will definitely use the absolute bare minimum amount of heating we can get away with, I'm sure this will be reasonably common.

Already did that last winter - which was actually pretty mild. Bill for gas only, generally 2 - 3 hours/day average for Dec - Jan - Feb was under £200 in total and house never really got warmer than 19 - 20 °C briefly at the highest in any one room. That was with a very favourable fixed rate for one year from March 2021 and a single occupier of a not well insulated old house at ~ 10 000 kw/h per year. Plus, Feb and March were very sunny which helped warm up the south facing rooms.

Can't imagine using less than that ( there's only so many clothes you can wear without being immobile ), so expecting to triple that sum and worse if it's a cold winter this time. Nonetheless hoping to keep the yearly bill around £1500 and a low consumer of electricity at ~1000 kw/h per year so hopefully below £1 000. Even so that's totalling £2 500 around 20 - 25% of my admittedly low occupational pension income, so how families will manage is beyond me since I least can delve into substantial savings.

I live in an old croft in the Highlands of Scotland. No roof insulation as there is no space. Walls are made of stone so not wall insulation either. Wind just blows through the house - you can really feel it.
We do not put central heating on timed but use as needed which is probably an hour in the morning and an hour at night. Coal fire in the lving room goes on at night.
Is it cold in the house? Stays at about 12-14c but early mornings below that for sure. Good socks and nice jumper. Yeah most folk would not be able to stand it but wife and I ( in late 50's) are used to it. Keeps germs away too.

[Tichtheid]

I live in an old croft in the Highlands of Scotland. No roof insulation as there is no space. Walls are made of stone so not wall insulation either. Wind just blows through the house - you can really feel it.
We do not put central heating on timed but use as needed which is probably an hour in the morning and an hour at night. Coal fire in the lving room goes on at night.
Is it cold in the house? Stays at about 12-14c but early mornings below that for sure. Good socks and nice jumper. Yeah most folk would not be able to stand it but wife and I ( in late 50's) are used to it. Keeps germs away too.

I was trying to persuade my wife to move to Wester Ross or one of the islands, not on her own of course, I was going too.

Not a chance, not even to Inverness.


On the subject of energy bills, we've just moved to a new fixed-price direct debit for gas and electricity, it's a kick in the arse off a 200% increase on this last year's bill.

[tabascoboy]

Well I guess you don't pay for energy that you don't get, so maybe our wonderful Government will try to help us save money on bills this way..

UK Braces for Blackouts, Gas Cuts in January in Emergency Plan

Reasonable worst-case scenario envisages 4-day power shortfall
Industry, households could face planned power outages

The UK is planning for several days over the winter when cold weather may combine with gas shortages, leading to organized blackouts for industry and even households.

Under the government’s latest “reasonable worst-case scenario,” Britain could face an electricity capacity shortfall totaling about a sixth of peak demand, even after emergency coal plants have been fired up, according to people familiar with the government’s planning.

Under that outlook, below-average temperatures and reduced electricity imports from Norway and France could expose four days in January when the UK may need to trigger emergency measures to conserve gas, they said. The government Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy didn’t immediately respond to a request for comment.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... gency-plan

[Paddington Bear]

Yeah whatever the government say there are definitely going to be blackouts this winter, the only question is how bad will they be

[Blackmac]

Yeah I know everyone's different but at these prices we're already being much more cautious about energy usage, and will definitely use the absolute bare minimum amount of heating we can get away with, I'm sure this will be reasonably common.

Already did that last winter - which was actually pretty mild. Bill for gas only, generally 2 - 3 hours/day average for Dec - Jan - Feb was under £200 in total and house never really got warmer than 19 - 20 °C briefly at the highest in any one room. That was with a very favourable fixed rate for one year from March 2021 and a single occupier of a not well insulated old house at ~ 10 000 kw/h per year. Plus, Feb and March were very sunny which helped warm up the south facing rooms.

Can't imagine using less than that ( there's only so many clothes you can wear without being immobile ), so expecting to triple that sum and worse if it's a cold winter this time. Nonetheless hoping to keep the yearly bill around £1500 and a low consumer of electricity at ~1000 kw/h per year so hopefully below £1 000. Even so that's totalling £2 500 around 20 - 25% of my admittedly low occupational pension income, so how families will manage is beyond me since I least can delve into substantial savings.

I live in an old croft in the Highlands of Scotland. No roof insulation as there is no space. Walls are made of stone so not wall insulation either. Wind just blows through the house - you can really feel it.
We do not put central heating on timed but use as needed which is probably an hour in the morning and an hour at night. Coal fire in the lving room goes on at night.
Is it cold in the house? Stays at about 12-14c but early mornings below that for sure. Good socks and nice jumper. Yeah most folk would not be able to stand it but wife and I ( in late 50's) are used to it. Keeps germs away too.

My wife is an absolute nightmare with energy and heat. We are currently having a running battle about the fact she keeps all 28 LED lights on in the kitchen, all day, every day because it creates a nice fucking ambiance. As soon as the house drops below 21c she will insist on putting the heating on. She also has a bath and a shower every day. I find it impossible to convince her about the seriousness of the situation. She is the same with recycling. Never bothers her arse and I seem to spend all my time taking recycling items out of the bin.

[tabascoboy]

No need to worry, the Government are right on top of this

[I like neeps]

Yeah whatever the government say there are definitely going to be blackouts this winter, the only question is how bad will they be

I really do not understand why nobody is campaigning now for lower energy use. As you've said people are voluntarily (many won't be voluntarily just can't pay) going to try and reduce consumption. How about a national campaign?

Especially as covid has shown that people in the UK are more likely to overreact than underreact and don't actually care about govt intervening.

[Paddington Bear]

Yeah whatever the government say there are definitely going to be blackouts this winter, the only question is how bad will they be

I really do not understand why nobody is campaigning now for lower energy use. As you've said people are voluntarily (many won't be voluntarily just can't pay) going to try and reduce consumption. How about a national campaign?

Fully agree. The benefit of starting now is that you could start reasonably small as presumably no one really has the heating on. Turn appliances off at the wall, use the kettle less etc. Then taper it into autumn around thermostats and how long you have the heating on for etc.

[Dogbert]

It's a JRM cunning plan to get workers back into offices

WFM & Freeze , or come into a nice cozy office

[I like neeps]

It's a JRM cunning plan to get workers back into offices

WFM & Freeze , or come into a nice cozy office

Why do you think offices are going to be keeping the heating on? I predict a big brouhaha upcoming about heating and rent prices.

[Dogbert]

Because Health and Safety Executive states employers are legally obliged to keep the indoor temperature comfortable.

Obviously this could go on the Bonfire of red tape

maybe we can use this bonfire to warm houses

[Glaston]

EDF is suing the French Govt for forcing it to run at a loss.

[Glaston]

Yeah whatever the government say there are definitely going to be blackouts this winter, the only question is how bad will they be

I really do not understand why nobody is campaigning now for lower energy use. As you've said people are voluntarily (many won't be voluntarily just can't pay) going to try and reduce consumption. How about a national campaign?

Especially as covid has shown that people in the UK are more likely to overreact than underreact and don't actually care about govt intervening.

UK has pretty low electricity use compared to France/Germany.

Still lots of power wasted every where.
You only have to visit a UK city at night to see all the lights left on in offices/buildings.

Visiting Tesco a morning last week and they had some kind of heating on for ffs.

Off the top of my head, the very rough power figures are France 2X UK usage/ Germany 3X UK usage

[Insane_Homer]

[I like neeps]

Because Health and Safety Executive states employers are legally obliged to keep the indoor temperature comfortable.

Obviously this could go on the Bonfire of red tape

maybe we can use this bonfire to warm houses

Hmm, will be very interesting as a number of companies won't be able to afford this.

[I like neeps]

The Rent Strike campaign is top story on the Mail online right now. I'd be very surprised if they don't get a million pledges.

Would be bad news. What's the saying? If I owe the bank £10000 it's my problem. If I owe the bank £10,000,000 it's their problem. I think big energy firms are going to face pretty serious civil disobedience.

[Bullet]

Was on a 2 year fixed price which finishes next month and know that we're a really low energy user.

Been given 3 options from the crooks;

A 'flexible tracker' for 33% more than paying now but obviously could go up (or down)

Another 2 year fixed at twice the cost of flexible.

A 1 year fixed at three times cost of flexible.


Has anyone done research on market expectations?

[Hal Jordan]

Why would he do anything? No one is giving him money, holidays, sex or takeaways if he helps out non-chums.

[Ovals]

We've just come off a fixed price (1 year) deal that meant we paid less this year than the previous year - paying £156 per month. That'll more than double after moving to the flexible tariff. A fixed tariff would have been about £560/month !!

We can probably economise a bit - shut down the Central heating a bit earlier each night, turn off rads in the spare bedrooms, turn down the thermostat a tad and use the open fire more to keep/boost the Lounge at a comfortable temp - but we have no doors downstairs, so it's hard to just keep one room warm. TBH though, we'd rather pay more than be cold.

Really feel for families that are already on a very tight budget - finding another £1500-2000 must be extremely concerning - especially with everything else getting more expensive and wages not keeping up with inflation - I can see lots of people taking on 2nd jobs just to keep their heads above water.

[Margin__Walker]

Really does feel like we're sleepwalking into a brick wall.

Parliament on their summer holidays. PM on the way out with the leadership contenders either mumbling on about Tax cuts or getting Brexit even more done to the members. And Labour completely mute.

It's seems clear as day (to a layman like myself anyway) that some sort of serious intervention will be required.

As you say Ovals, personally we'll be able to swallow the extra costs. Far too many people wont be able to though.

[lemonhead]

Really does feel like we're sleepwalking into a brick wall.

Parliament on their summer holidays. PM on the way out with the leadership contenders either mumbling on about Tax cuts or getting Brexit even more done to the members. And Labour completely mute.

It's seems clear as day (to a layman like myself anyway) that some sort of serious intervention will be required.

As you say Ovals, personally we'll be able to swallow the extra costs. Far too many people wont be able to though.

Do get the impression no one gives a shit alright.

But nothing out of the ordinary for recent times: just work out who to point the finger at and make the rest up as you go.

[Ovals]

Really does feel like we're sleepwalking into a brick wall.

Parliament on their summer holidays. PM on the way out with the leadership contenders either mumbling on about Tax cuts or getting Brexit even more done to the members. And Labour completely mute.

It's seems clear as day (to a layman like myself anyway) that some sort of serious intervention will be required.

As you say Ovals, personally we'll be able to swallow the extra costs. Far too many people wont be able to though.

And, on top of the rampant energy cost increases, the BofE are also sticking it to those with big mortgages. Raising interest rates at the same time as predicting a long recession, and supply side cost increases out of our control, is a sure way to stagflation. Maggie solved it by having 3M unemployed - not sure that option is viable atm.

[I like neeps]

Really does feel like we're sleepwalking into a brick wall.

Parliament on their summer holidays. PM on the way out with the leadership contenders either mumbling on about Tax cuts or getting Brexit even more done to the members. And Labour completely mute.

It's seems clear as day (to a layman like myself anyway) that some sort of serious intervention will be required.

As you say Ovals, personally we'll be able to swallow the extra costs. Far too many people wont be able to though.

And, on top of the rampant energy cost increases, the BofE are also sticking it to those with big mortgages. Raising interest rates at the same time as predicting a long recession, and supply side cost increases out of our control, is a sure way to stagflation. Maggie solved it by having 3M unemployed - not sure that option is viable atm.

BofE have spent the last 12 years doing everything they can to help mortgage holders and the reason interest rates haven't gone up until recently and are 10% being the rate of inflation is to protect mortgage holders.

They couldn't raise interest rates like Thatcher did as it would completely destroy the economy she created of privatising assets on the cheap whether council housing, public utilities whatever. So you'd have unemployed + huge asset busts and everyone is screwed.

[Grandpa]

There will be riots.... Like the poll tax riots...